S15E56 - Fear Factor

28:23Sean Kray:that sean i mean there was it there was he didn't articulate it like brilliantly and but yeah it was certainly if you asked me on um during the game i would have probably agreed with him you know i mean it was i was i was fuming that that is where he has really let himself down because he did kind of draw a line in the sand that was kind of like right it's the fans are with Romero and they're kind of against Frank and the board and then all of a sudden another line has now been drawn and lots of fans are like fed up with him um I don't really read Twitter or listen to talk sport too much so I kind of go off my group chats that I'm in as much as anything and I've noticed a little bit of a shift in people kind of being like I don't even blame frank so much now these were people that were that wanted his guts for garters a couple of weeks ago and all of a sudden they're like do you know what he's he is being let down and i do feel like that's i don't i haven't shifted i've you know i'm still quite unhappy with frank but he's he's definitely got a job that's been made harder by his captain there so yeah he's one of those geezers that he's he's hard to hate like really but he's um but yeah i i'm on that potch bandwagon as much as as much as like i know it will end in tears but i don't give a damn

29:53Jon Bass:i want him back yeah yeah i think we're all there we're all there john are you quickly there because i listened to his podcast with the high performance podcast that he was on today on the dog walk and I've been in I was in before Postacoglu I wanted him back where are you you want him? I'll let you into a secret if I was in Daniel Levy's shoes Poch would still be our manager now he wouldn't have left hold on a second with a bit of hindsight we shouldn't have left even when get him out get him out get him out of Pochettino get him out Jose Mourinho yes that's what I was like at the time honestly do you remember there was a pod that went out it was the night before Poch got sacked and it was like should Poch stay or go and then basically he went that night and the pod went out and it was out for a few hours and then there was the news about Jose Mourinho and you basically got on everyone like a few different people on the pod to give their opinion and I don't know why but I couldn't do it or I wasn't available or something like that and I remember thinking oh someone else will be pro pot like someone else would be like no he's got to stay and basically everyone wanted him out and i remember thinking that's annoying now because i haven't got it on public record i haven't got the receipts to be like i said this is a man for everybody's name this is a man who goes and finds old messages in whatsapp groups from years ago to prove a point that's true i literally during the game i found one from two years ago going i hate romero just retweeted it this is me like

31:25Sean Kray:i've been on this for a while when you go searching for these uh these old things do you ever come across ones that prove you that you're wrong and then just go oh i'll conveniently miss that one

31:36Jon Bass:out sean sean you you must know the old adage never let truth get in the way of a good story mate don't don't let it ruin it just just let them go just ignore them find the ones you want and then retweet them but yeah i i desperately wanted potch to be basically what's happening with frank now right i wanted them to go look regardless of what happens we see this is the bigger picture we're gonna back you we understand there's like problems with the squad there's problems with individuals there's like lots of moving parts we're going through a transition right all the things that was that were happening with Poch the difference with Poch at the time is that he'd actually delivered stuff for us like he'd created a brilliant team he'd moved us from you know one stadium to another stadium almost you know three different stadiums under his watch and managed to keep a team successful got us to a Champions League final got us to a point where we were a respected title chasing team and so the first sign that it wasn't working it was like nah let's move on to the new shiny thing now we've got a manager who's done absolutely nothing for us it doesn't matter what happens they won't sack him because they're like we at some point you got to stick with a manager it should have been potch we should have stuck with him and through thick and thin and given him the time and the resources to rebuild we haven't so now if we have the chance to bring him back we 100 have to do that and again i'll go back to my point that i've made at the very beginning of this pod i don't believe in like i'm not that interested in data and science and analytics and all that stuff i'm about the romanticism of football and we need as a football club we are sort of a romantic football club you need someone who gets it and has the passion that's why we have like you know once in a generation players that play for us why it makes no sense why have we had gareth bale luca modric harry kane son why have they been at our club because there's something magic about spurs and you need a manager who captures that magic which is why for all his faults Ange was the one that won us a trophy Ange why because he was the most emotionally invested manager we've had he was the one who got what Spurs was about the most and then before that was Potch because he got it emotionally the most and so for now it has to be bring him back give him like the support that he should have got first time around and we we go again the phoenix from the flame Spurs could be back get him get him right back in the mix son when when you listen to this podcast with with um jake humphries is the high performance podcast with him and jesus periz you're like you listen to him you're like this is exactly what we need it's probably i mean it probably isn't right it might not be exactly what we need there might be another manager out there is exactly what will bring us forward but when you listen to him talk like you know you've mentioned it and you do this consistently joining sort of like i'm not into data right i'm into into to under like fear feelings and and and intangibles right and there was a part of the podcast where he talks about that and he talks about when you're looking at your squad when he first arrived at spurs he wasn't looking at the data specifically said i wasn't it wasn't about data it was about who was turning up on time who was what were they wearing when they came in what car were they driving what was their attitude in training how did they stay back all of these things he used and he identified harry kane who spurs were trying to actively sell at the time we were trying to get danny welbeck in from manchester united and that would have been the end of harry kane because he would have affected in the fourth choice striker uh pochettino was saying we don't need welbeck we've got harry kane they did say that we there was no way that they knew he would become the striker that he did but but he did and um so i regardless of all of the kind of sort of sensible approach to this that don't go back all that sort of stuff if there's any world where pochettino if we can create an opportunity for him to come back we should do it we really i thought he was good at chelsea

35:45Sean Kray:it's not even like you're really going back

35:48Jon Bass:he talked about his time at Chelsea and how difficult it was and how weird and young that squad was and how it took time to build into something that, you know, the reason why you've just said that we saw at the end of the Chelsea season

36:03Sean Kray:so it's not like Potch is this dinosaur when he left us it was a case of that the squad had been neglected and he needed like John says, needed this kind a project to go again i remember coming out of the stadium after bayern munich uh slapped us up and i was like look we're in trouble here because daniel levy is not going to overhaul this whole squad and um and back back potch in that way so in that for that reason i reluctantly think potch has to go because that was that was where we were the the other the other way of him having this project just seemed like a bit of a fantasy land but if we like now actually do have owners and then i mean that's up for debate but ones that are looking to actually rebuild the squad and do something different who better than potch like they're not saying there isn't there's probably loads of people that could be better but from what we know we've got to get behind it he we all love him he loves the club and it's like yeah i appreciate there'll be some like young young fans probably listening to this being like listen to this not talking about pochettino like but i don't give a damn about him like let's get let's get him get him back it was a tap-in before

37:24Jon Bass:postacoglu yeah definitely a tap-in now he's going to be available after the world cup we've got a manager who is you know i don't think there's never been since george graham a more unpopular manager in thomas frank not because of who he is as you mentioned sean like he's a he's a nice geezer like we don't want any harm to come to him right it ain't like we think he's out you know he isn't unable to do the job and we understand fully that the the injuries and and romero's actions at the weekend and all of the things that are going on but a lot of it's out of his control i think any manager would be struggling struggling right now including pochettino but sometimes you have to go back and the thing is is like you think about like you never go back right but the amount of relationships where you think like it was all right it faded out it got a bit boring things weren't going right you go out there and realize the glass ain't greener like there's girls with gonorrhea and i'm just sick of shagging them let's go back to my beautiful wife who doesn't have gonorrhea right that's kind of where we're at where whereas you know frank's got gonorrhea and and and we know post pochettino doesn't and so there if there's an opportunity to bring back mum or dad depends how you look at it then then bring him back and let's just see and it is like that tapping we need something to hold on to like there may be a plan for from Venkatesham and Langer and about Frank but the fan base ain't on board and they're gonna rue the missed opportunity if they don't bring Postico fuck Pochettino back if they don't bring Pochettino back in these circumstances and it ain't just it's a tapping but it doesn't have to be that support him you know he spoke about, you know, the bit of his career that he gets criticism for was when he went to PSG and he had Neymar, Messi and Mbappe as his front three.

39:26Jon Bass:And the way they spoke about that and say it was like, it was impossible. Like you had them arguing who was going to take the penalties, who was going to take free kicks, who was going to take corners. And now I've got to get them to run and press. It's like, it's just, it was a different football club. I think there are some sections of perhaps the Spurs fan base but there are certain sections of football that feel like post the court fucking done it again pochettino has the kind of games moved on from him and i think it's nonsense i really do yeah um yeah so it'll be uh it'd be great great to see him back but how do you feel about tomorrow night boys this episode is brought to you by indeed stop waiting around for the perfect candidate.

40:13Jon Bass:Instead, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs to find the right people with the right skills fast. It's a simple way to make sure your listing is the first candidate C. According to Indeed data, Sponsored Jobs have four times more applicants than non-sponsored jobs. So go build your dream team today with Indeed. Get a$75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by Venmo. With the Venmo debit card, a taco in one hand, and ordering a ride in the other means you're stacking your rewards. Nice. Get up to 5 % cash back with Venmo Stash on your favorite brands when you pay with your Venmo debit card.

40:52Jon Bass:Pick a bundle with your go-tos and start earning cash back. Do more Stash, get more cash. Visit Venmo.com to learn more. Venmo Stash bundle terms and exclusion supply. See terms at Venmo.me slash stash terms. Max$100 cash back per month. Your little one grew three inches overnight. Adorable. Also, expensive. Sell their pint-sized pieces on Depop and list them in minutes with no selling fees. Because somewhere, a dad refuses to pay full price for the clothes his kids will outgrow tomorrow. And he's ready to buy your son's entire wardrobe right now.

41:25Sean Kray:Consider your future growth spurt budget secured. Start selling on Depop, where taste recognizes taste. Payment processing fees and boosting fees still apply. see website for details do you know what again like with the with the group chats and that i've got going where it's been polluted with apathy and toxic toxicity but in the last couple of days it's actually been like people they're like do you know what we need to get behind them it ain't about moaning at the manager it's about like i was i was saying earlier like you look at when when Everton stayed up a couple of years ago and Richard Arlison scoring and Goodison going mad and the limbs and all that.

42:10Sean Kray:We need to create that kind of thing. At home, our record is diabolical and our atmosphere is just as bad. We need to somehow get into a stage where everyone is backing them. We've got a few night games coming up, say Newcastle, Palace. they're just we need to we we need everyone to sort of come together and that isn't going to be in a manufactured way no one's gonna you know um call call everyone out on twitter and they're all going to come in and flags on seats it's not that it naturally just starts to happen and i feel it happening amongst people that i know where they're like look this is very very serious now lots of people are, I know you don't want to dig people out and say, oh, you know, ostrich head in the sand and all that.

43:05Sean Kray:Some people just think we will be okay. I can't tell you how we're going to be okay, but we're going to end up being okay. Other people are like, you know, we're gone. But most people are like, if we're going to get out of this, something needs to change. The screw needs to start turning. And yeah, I just, I'm starting to feel it. I think we're going to see a good atmosphere and I just I've just got a feeling we're going to do them tomorrow and it's a bit of they're they're in poor form but it's like you just let's just say I saw a bit of a better attitude I mean against Man United before Romero got sent off I did feel like we were up for it we were starting to create things in the final third I did I was worried I didn't think we were going to go and win the game purely because and this isn't through like hindsight but i saw them getting too many opportunities of getting shots off in and around the box and they've got people like bruno and like umbumo and that who and the warning signs were there and like when the when the goal came the way it came from the corner and he was unmarked i always sort of felt like it was going to be one of those ones where we have a really encouraging display, but without actually putting them to the sword.

44:26Sean Kray:Like if it was a Harry Kane and Son kind of thing, and we were creating those chances, you'd be like, oh, eventually we're going to pick them off. But I was thinking we're going to probably not quite pick them off and they're going to score one or two of these chances. But that's against Man United where they do have players that are capable of doing that. Newcastle at home, if you do in a night game, crowd are all kind of up for it and whatever. I don't know I just Gutt just says I think I think we're going to beat them like not hammer them or anything like that but I just I just think we're going to nick it one way or another

45:01Jon Bass:If we beat them we're safe then right more or less

45:06Sean Kray:If West Ham beat Man United then who knows but I swear to God I swear to fucking God

45:13Jon Bass:I swear to God if that cunt doesn't get his hair cut I'm going to fucking do my brain I am going to run in front of a fucking truck if Manchester City if West Ham beat Man United I tell you that guaranteed straight in front of an Aveco bash problem solved I don't mean that something needs

45:35Sean Kray:to knock West Ham out of this little stride they've got going because it's very annoying but yeah did Palace end up winning in the end yesterday didn't they I saw they were winning 1-0 later that was great as well

45:49Jon Bass:yeah them fucking winning This is what I mean, because they were the stone that I was looking at being like, well, you know, even if all else fails, Palace, and then they go pick up a decent away win.

46:01Sean Kray:And it's just, but yeah, I think we're going to, I think we're going to nick one tomorrow, but I wouldn't put too much money on it.

46:09Jon Bass:I love this question from Bosco. He says, will we have to prioritise Premier League matches over the Champions League round of 16 to avoid relegation? there's no well we should be prioritizing the champions league over anything we're not going to fucking win that yes the answer bosco yes is yes no i think go the other way double down mate right get relegated and try and win the remember last season when i was like we were at the start of the season we were joking go would you take finishing 17th to win europa league and i was like yes definitely just do it who cares uh well i do care as it goes but i would still do that again uh and take that trophy so this year if it was like you get relegated but you win the champions league i think i might take that i think i might take that would i wouldn't even think about okay now i'm saying prioritize the round of 16 or prioritize the league game what are you doing yeah yeah no no no no no no you've given us the final you've given us the results rather than the method the method is how do you think you get the results mate you've got you've got to win the around a 16 haven't you so prioritise it get through to 16 see what happens to dare is to do my friend we don't sit around going oh what will happen this is Flav you've been a Spurs fan your whole life what will happen is we'll rest our players we'll get knocked out and we'll still lose the fucking league games anyway so we might as well not think about it and just do play best teams in both we'll also prioritise the Champions League go out in quarterfinals and get relegated yes same thing yeah but at least we tried At least we were trying.

47:43Jon Bass:At least we dared. Every Arsenal fan I ever meet, at least we tried. At least we tried. Yeah, I don't know. How do you see Newcastle going, John? So, weirdly, I don't know whether it's some sort of universal shift, but I kind of had the same thing that Sean's talking about, where up to the City game, there was a part of me in every game where I was going, I hope they win, so Frank goes, because I can't deal with this anymore. just wants to keep losing so he goes like get just get this over and done with if we're gonna lose let's lose eight nil so it's just like you can't stay and then the city game came and there was just some this weird i don't know just feeling of like this is supposed to be the nightmare run and this is started quite well there were signs that we were sort of playing quite well and it was off the back of the champions league and you know we got a couple of wins we're basically undefeated in three or four games or something like that and so i had this sense of optimism of like maybe if you can just get a point at Old Trafford suddenly you're going into this Newcastle game and you've got something to cling on to and suddenly this horrible February could actually be all right and suddenly you've got you know four or five points that you didn't think you were going to have and this is looking all right and even when we were when it was 11 versus 11 and they were on top of us I was thinking we are weathering this though like if you can just get through this United are in great form you're at Old Trafford they're you know they're really buoyed you can just stay in this game stay in this game that we might be able to get something and even when it was 1-0 for ages with 10 men I was I was thinking we got a chance here this is what happens in football you stay in the game long enough and they don't get the second one you have a chance of getting an equalizer and so it wasn't that we were playing well it's just that you know I felt I just feel this positive shift of like I need to get behind this I need to believe that there is some light here.

49:33Jon Bass:Otherwise, this is just going to become horrible and because there is no world in which Frank is going to get sacked seemingly. It doesn't matter what happens. They're not going to sack him. So at this point, I am just blindly optimistic and I feel the same with Sean. I feel like tomorrow night, we've got a really good chance of winning and we need to. So I want to believe that we can because I can't keep going into games feeling like we're just going to lose. Name our backline. is going to be Sosa left back okay it'll be Spence Spence is fit it'll be Spence yeah but who's going to play right back Gray yeah Gray always plays right back okay literally 90 % of his career he's played right back I think I would start Sosa you know I thought he was great when he come on get him in we need sometimes you need a lift you need a player that comes in out of nowhere and just gives you something I'm going to go Sosa I'll go Sosa it's alright Sosa Sosa and then it's got to be van der Ven I think I'd play Palina centre back is that mental instead of Dragoson it's not mental it's the only option we've got we've literally got no one we started the season with fucking eight centre backs Dragoson oh of course Dragoson yeah but I think you'd go Palina wouldn't you I fucking don't know do you know what do you know what John I don't fucking care I don't care alright just fucking go out there whatever 11's played go out and win yeah but yes perhaps perhaps and then grey at right back who I think actually has also been alright so what about Spendog you haven't that's your point I just don't want to rush him back because this is what we do mate like Destiny came back and he's just played every game injured immediately like we can't just keep bringing him back in we've signed a left back for cover so cover he's like you need he's got to you've got to ease him back in I think and he's always there if it's going horribly wrong you can just bring him back can you imagine if you're Sosa right you're playing for you're playing for who is it is it Sao Paulo who did you buy Santos no was he Santos it was Santos

51:30Sean Kray:and so we

51:31Jon Bass:yeah and I spoke to Tim Vickery about this we did an episode of the Lab all about him and if you want to find more about our new Brazilian left back then go and listen to that episode in the Lab but

51:45I

51:45Jon Bass:I spoke to him what the fuck was I saying oh yeah so imagine right you're in Brazil you're playing for Santos this is a team that attracts no it's well famous don't get me wrong like an incredible club is everybody knows it around the world but tiny football club in comparison to some of the others and uh you you can imagine that he's been following british football or the premier league for many many years he's been flown over he's been in a couple of squads and then suddenly he has to come on at old trafford against manchester united like that's like he's only 18 19 years old i don't think i i had to get my kid up out of bed two minutes to eight this morning when he's supposed to get up at half past seven and he's only four years younger than santos i mean sorry than salser so because surely he's like the mentality around it must be must be affected to some degree

52:45Sean Kray:i think it would affect him more if he lived in this country though i'd imagine that coming over but the ascension that he will have gone through his teenage years, he'd just be thinking he's born to go into those kind of situations.

53:00Jon Bass:He looked comfortable. I know he got done on the right-hand side, but he recovered well.

53:05Sean Kray:Yeah, these players do eventually get humbled, and then maybe that can affect him. But I think he's in that situation. When you're desperate, I wouldn't be worried about playing him, and that's with not knowing anything about him. but I'd be quite happy to see him have a go tomorrow, to be honest. I would say Dragushin would go at centre-half, and Palina would go in with Saar and go to Gallagher. That's the set-up that I like, and then three in front of them.

53:37Jon Bass:Yeah. All right, mate. A bit of a humble brag, but my nephew plays for the youth team for a very prominent Premier League team. And this week he was trained at City, and he was playing in training up against Harland and Semenyo, right? And I was like, wow, he's only 16. I was like, wow, that's incredible. So I said to him, oh, my God, how was it? Was it all right? He just went, yeah, it was all right. No, just, yeah, it was all right. Just another day. Right, so like what we think of like, oh, my God, you're coming on in a Premier League game at Old Trafford. They're like, yeah, that's my job.

54:09Jon Bass:Like, that's what I'm prepared for that. And like, yeah, okay, it's different in training and stuff like that. But it's the same principle. To me, I was like, wow, you're training with the first team and you're marking these players. And to him, it's like, yeah, that's the next thing. I need to get into that thing more frequently. So I think just play Souza. And like I said, sometimes you just need a spark from somewhere. I thought he looked really exciting when he came. He's absolutely rapid. And he's tenacious. He's going to go down the left-hand side. He's carried and carried and carried and carried.

54:41Jon Bass:Yeah. It's one of them where sometimes you think, oh, he's going to gas out and he's going to, especially in the Prem, You know, so much talk about strength and, you know, all the rest of it. But he just was strong. He held on to the ball. Just something there. So give him a go. Look, fundamentally, we don't have that many players available. We've got to start trusting these younger players to come in and just contribute. So let's just get behind him and give it a go. Why not? Right then, boys. That has been the Fighting Cop podcast. Thank you very much, Sean Cray. And thank you very much, John Bass.

55:13Jon Bass:Always a pleasure. next time we speak to you we'll either be genuinely like genuinely worried that we're going down or we'll be like yeah we're never going down fuck it injury crisis we'll recover we're going to fucking win the league one of those two things are going to be true in 48 hours right bye bye

55:45Jon Bass:F-I-G-H-T-I-N-G F-I-G-H-T-I-N-G

55:58Jon Bass:We're the fighting cock and we don't give a fuck Like a top draw whore when she don't see bucks Everybody wanna come and run it but they're funny Like a dummy in the barbie of your mommy

56:05Sean Kray:Fighting cock and we don't give a shit Everybody knows flat baits a prick We could get a sticky in the mini sucky willy When you're getting grilly yeah you gotta bag the milli Fight fight

56:30Jon Bass:This episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing Company. No matter how you do game day, on the couch, in the crowd, or manning the snack table, athletic brewing fits right in with a full lineup of non-alcoholic beer styles you can enjoy bold flavors all game long no hangovers no buzz no subbing out for water in the second half stock the fridge for tip-off with a variety of non-alcoholic craft styles available at your local grocery store or online at athleticbrewing.com near beer fit for all times 30 years ago blinds.com

57:02Sean Kray:broke the mold and made custom window treatments easy for everyone over 25 million windows later we're celebrating by giving our customers up to 50 % off site-wide during our anniversary sale. Whether you DIY it or want a pro to handle everything from measure to install, Blinds.com has you covered. Shop online, access real design professionals, and get free samples. Thank you for 30 amazing years. Shop the anniversary sale now through March 11th and get up to 50 % off site-wide at Blinds.com.