S15E60 - Welcome To The Circus

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0:52Sip for yourself. Shop Virtuo Up exclusively at Nespresso.com. It's a season 2 playoff race with TGL presented by SoFi Sunday at 9pm Eastern Jupiter Lynx vs Boston Common Golf Monday at 7pm Eastern Los Angeles Golf Club vs New York Golf Club Tuesday at 9pm Eastern The Bay Golf Club vs Jupiter Lynx Keep up, it's golf Watch on ESPN, ESPN2 and the ESPN app It's the fighting It's the fighting Clock It's the fighting.

1:30It's the fighting. Cock. Boys, I've got to be honest. I'm looking at the pair of you. I've never been more disappointed in a pair of fully grown men than I am of you two. I love what you're going to say. Just shut your mouth for a second. I was disappointed by the Spurs result yesterday. I was disappointed by the performance of some of the Spurs players. I was disappointed by a lot yesterday. I've never been more disappointed than I am right now of you two. I am. For people at home, you won't know this, right? No, you know, I'm in an unfortunate position of staring at two of my best friends, right?

2:11And the pair of them have got oodies on. Yeah. Nice and snug. You're in your 40s, lads. Yeah. Is it that you've just abandoned all sort of cloths in the corner? What about this as well? Is that a little blankie? Well, you've got a blankie as well. Yeah, over my legs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And got my Mrs. Knickers on, innit?

2:43Nice. Nice. Are they pink and frilly, mate? Little lace numbers. No, I haven't really got, I haven't got those on. but I thought I'd just throw that in there. Yeah, I just thought my last 24 hours couldn't get any worse with you two sitting there. I know what's happened to this country and what is a masculine trait anymore but the fact that you two are just wearing ODs to do this podcast is disgusting. Mate, equality. Is it? Comfortableness. What, women and men should be really comfortable? Yeah, just be comfortable. Yeah, and he's still talking about his Mrs. Underwear. He's not even talking about the ODs.

3:21that's the thing from that's the thing I took from COVID man was comfort over everything like fucking slippers at home oodies like comfort am I am I harder than you two because I feel nothing about wearing jeans until I go to bed I wouldn't say harder emotionally dead maybe not striving just to think feel comfortable in every moment of every facet and every second of my day that doesn't drive me being as comfortable as i can be with you two it clearly does and that's why you're floating about the gap all the time though yeah that's why on about 80 minutes i was just like yeah this is fine you two were having mental breakdowns i put the playstation on at 80 minutes i was like i'm fucking done here mate i'm putting the playstation on i didn't notice a lot of empty seats at the end right and um i was having a conversation was like is it when is it all right to leave early on a football game.

4:22Losing the North London derby. That's fine. Get out. Just get out. Yeah, I was kind of like, I was staying there until, not until the end. Well, actually, no, it was until the end. You heard final whistle. And then I was kind of like, I said to my old man, I was like, we'll start shimmying down in a bit, like on 90 something minutes or whatever. I don't know. I thought we might go back to 3-2. And then there's that, oh, they're going to shit themselves. And then we start piling everyone forward. Oh, my God, there could be a penalty. Like anything could happen if we got that goal back. And I didn't want to miss it.

4:59And then as I was kind of like lining myself up to tug my dad on the shoulder and be like, come on, come on, old man, let's go. And then was it Jokeres who scored the fourth? Yeah. And then I was just like, as I was sliding through, I was just like, oh, God. get me out but then I got I was met by a wall of people already on the stairwell I was like just get out just scrambling out like I was on the Titanic or something just scratching my way through people's backs fucking get me out of here fuck

5:35what are you like on lower deck three and the Titanic's going down and there's no way out just get fucking moved I'm going to get out I don't want to hear it shoving birds and kids it's like there's cold waters on there Fucking cool as fuck. Fucking get out of there. Like you're queuing up for the dinghies to get off and you're booting kids out of the boat. Fucking get me out of there. Sick of it. Yeah, no, I get it. I mean, it was tough. Oh, I hope so. Yeah, this is how bad it is. This is how bad it is. Callum doesn't drink. Day drinking. This is what we're getting through now. He's got an Oodian and his fucking neck in cans of Heineken.

6:15Go on, lad. All right, so as we know, Cal typically, when even we go to football, you drink very, I would say, in moderation. Yeah. Like for me, it's about the drinking and all the other stuff. Yeah. For you, it's more about, I don't know what it is. You just turn up and you don't get that pissed, but you're all right. Just misogyny. Socializing. I'm there for the misogyny and just, yeah. Just to be disrespectful. It's generally disrespectful. Just a break. Yeah, break social. norms yeah just be just be as offensive as possible that's your alcohol and cocaine is it yeah yeah yeah um i appreciate it uh and i was speaking to cal earlier and went and i was like for this for this i didn't actually bring any alcohol in but i was like for this for this podcast i might have to do it drunk it's the only way i can enjoy myself but and cal went yeah do Do you know what I might do?

7:10I might get one of my Europa League final beers.

7:15Tell us about Europa League final beers. So I did, the last time I was on, I cracked open one of the Europa League final beers. Yeah, it was after Europa League final. We all, people are excited, right? It's all like, yeah, come on, let's go to the pub. Come on. Yay. And we went over to the ring in Southwark, which is on the corner there right opposite, Southwark train station. And it was rammed in there. so we couldn't really get served in there. But there's a load of benches outside. I was like, let's just go get cans and sit outside the pub. So me and Spooky have walked up to the off-license.

7:48And what was I trying to encourage? I was trying to encourage him to do something bad. I can't remember what it was. I was like, come on, let's stay out. Basically just trying to get him to stay out later and just fuck off going to the office tomorrow. I remember that much. And I've just bought shitloads of cans and whatever. Come back and everyone's like, oh, we're going to go home. So then I'm just left with loads of cans. And I don't really drink at home. I'm not really a home drinker, really. But early listeners of The Fighting Cock will remember the sound of a can opening on the pod regularly.

8:19And so I thought, yeah, to pay respect to you guys and to all the other stalwarts, the four horsemen, as I like to call you all, I'm going to start cracking open cans on the pod. Nice. So at what minute did you realize we were fucked yesterday? Three. Yeah. actually I was going to go to you know if we're rounding it up free I was like two minutes two minutes ten I thought oh no it's because sometimes you can tell the flow of the game from the opening moment and often it's just a bit of a a misnomer it doesn't necessarily tell you everything but it did it told us everything and just sort of sitting there for the vast majority of that first half in hell, in hell.

9:03And then the vast majority of the second half in hell. And then at the end, burn in hell. The ones where, you know, fucking murderers go. Yeah. At the end, burn in. Oh my God. And then why won't I die? Oh no, no, you're going to burn like this forever. Fuck shit. What do we do to deserve it? Are we, it's like, is there some sort of, some sort of intervention here? Like we're good people, aren't we? I like to think so are we though because you know like evil people don't think they're evil Putin doesn't think he's evil he thinks he's the bollocks Pol Pot thought he was doing the right thing didn't he I didn't hit the road wrote a whole book he well believed it did Pol Pot realise Ricky did he think he was on the right side of history yeah of course he did I was just cracking up at Putin just looking in the mirror he's like I'm the fucking bollocks.

10:01I am the bollocks. I'm doing some quality stuff here. He must, he must, he must, he must, like, he must go, I've already started something here. Yeah. I may have made a mistake. It's like doing a dodgy joke in a pub and then it all kicks off around you and you're like, oh no. Like, I shouldn't have said that, but, no, he, we must, I wonder if Spurs fans universally think we're the goodies, but we're all actually on the wrong side of history here. And this is why we're suffering in the way we are. And somehow, all of them gooners, they're actually the goodies because they get everything they fucking want and they have done for decades.

10:41Why can't we get what we want? Why can't good things happen to us? I mean, the only thing I can say is we won the Europa League. What do you want to know about the Europa League right now? No, I know. I'm just saying, that's all I've got. That's all I've got. that first half right when i still don't know what happened what happened to the lino there was communication issue was it was it was the mic not working or something i have no idea something happened anyway and then it stopped for like fucking 10 minutes or whatever however long it was in the game but up until that point we i was just sitting there and i was just squirming in my seat because we were getting battered just they had the possession they were probing we were just dug in the trenches and we couldn't see a way out and i was like this it is literally that goal is just they are knocking on our door and i was like we can't get out we can't do anything and i was just thinking what we're gonna do and then like the mic thing happened i was like this is fucking great let it go for longer longer someone had the batteries like uh it's just and then it it kind of took their momentum and we started to kind of claw our way back into the game a bit um and then they scored one of his voice then was great he's about to burst his tears yeah it felt like it at the time and then when I saw like Eze because it was obviously right in front of me just hand covering his mouth and doing that celebration I fucking despise that and then the fucking sky cameras or whatever it was they went onto the pitch to go round him and like it was like really playing into it fucking get off the pitch you're not a footballer stay off oh man I was I was I was close to yeah smashing the place up or something like that.

12:38Yeah. Where I'm just like, it's like, he nearly joined us. Why are you doing a point in the sky and hand over the mouth? Don't fucking do that, you cunt. Yeah. Fucking someone run him over. Yeah. I nearly got in trouble. Is it acceptable to wish injury on an opposing player like Saka or someone? I mean, there was quite a few shouts of break his legs. Yeah. And stuff like that, mainly coming from my dad. Break his legs. Yeah, you know, a lot of stuff that comes out. That's kind of like the old school shouts, isn't it? Let him die, let him die. That's good fun, that's a good-natured one, but the breakage break seems a bit more sinister.

13:20Yeah, I mean, you don't necessarily want that. If though you have to use one of them. Yeah. Saying that, one of my favourite football memories at the old stadium was when we played Bournemouth at home and Jack Wilshere went to Bournemouth. and after, I don't know, an amount of time, half hour or something, he went down with his ankle injury and he had a history of ankle injuries. And there's a famous photo of him getting treatment on the picture by Helene and every single fan in the background is either laughing or doing wanker signs at him while he's on the ground getting treatment. It's just football heritage.

13:57Yeah, yeah. What did you make of the, you know, Tudor and the way we set up and the difference between Thomas Frank and how much do you take from the performance? Because it was almost like, because Arsenal wore up, right? They got so much stick after losing to Wolves. And I knew that was going to be a problem for us. I didn't buy into this idea that they're on the ropes, they're shaky, they're broken, their heads are gone. I just didn't. Like all it was was an opportunity for Arteta to go into their dressing room and talk to his players and go, and you hear what they're saying about you, that you're bottle drops, that, that, you know, you can't beat walls, that it's going to happen again.

14:43It gave them all the momentum they need and motivation they need in order to compete in their next game. It just happened to be Tottenham Hotspur. But as a, the narrative around the game before going in was Spurs can do them here. We can definitely do them. And I think as fans, we bought into it as well. In fact, fuck, I don't know who it was. There was a stadium announcer. It just was horrendous. Whoever. It was. They are worried. They are nervous as hell. We are calm. We are ready. That was announced inside the stadium. Was that quite a. I don't know. Whoever has the microphone. Yes, maybe. Like, why?

15:26Why? Why do that? I know you get the ballsiness of it. Like, oh yeah, give them some, give them some, like that sort of stuff. We've got 13 men injured, first team players that could probably get in the team. This is like, fucking read the room a little bit. And this is what the point is, I think everyone bought into the idea that Spurs were going to do it and forgot all of the failings, all of the players playing out of position. Dragoson playing his fourth game since returning from his ACL. No Romero, no Madison, no Kulisevsky. Solanke training once you know with a throat injury Richarlison returning from a hamstring injury Noah Doggie no Porro a midfielder Bissouma and Gallagher no Gallagher's just got here and Bissouma we thought that he would never play for Spurs again he came back from AFCON we were like fuck we need him that's how fucked we are yeah and for some reason we all sort of bought into this idea that yeah we're gonna we're gonna turn up we're gonna roll up Arsenal however top of the fucking league no injuries but because they drew it as wolves everyone just bought into it and then we're addressing the crowd going yeah they're worried they're fucking worried what is going on yeah I fuck me get out there be professional do something do not play into the narrative that is bullshit that was clearly bullshit before the game and was definitely bullshit five minutes into the game just fucking let's help ourselves yeah what's calm about us what's been calm about us all season lackadaisical is that's calm yeah fine i'm so fucking pissed off right now anyway sorry rick no no i can i know we're all feeling it i think there's there's quite a few things um and listening to judah speaking throughout the week his communication he was saying a lot of stuff that we kind of wanted to hear and we were lapping it up naturally like you would and it was i kind of felt a bit more comfortable really looking at his record rescuing teams getting us up the up the league i felt good i felt confident not confident we would beat arsenal but i just felt confident within myself and my football team.

17:49And then thirdly, we knew the players had down tools with Frank. There's a new disciplinarian on the fucking block. They're going to listen. They're going to play. We've been told many a time that this squad is better than where it should be. And maybe that realization is going to happen against the Gooners. As I'm walking down the high road, the sun is shining. There was a meeting point between the two brewers pub and another pub. There was hundreds of Spurs fans with cans on the streets. People were singing second again. I lay, I lay. And I was a bit like, oh, that's a bit. That's a bit much.

18:27Like, let's chill. Going to the stadium. It was roaring. Met loads of like fans of the pod. Craig, Louis, Emil. How's it going, lads? Thanks for listening. I felt good. maybe not overconfident but I felt we could maybe do something and the stadium was rocking it was fucking so loud in there and as you're walking up that south stand and everyone's just in that foyer bit and it I felt maybe we could land a blow on the nose just to bloody their nose just to do something and you forget about all our injuries you forget they're top of the league you forget that it was they got a draw to you know Wolves and Brentford and but the rest of the time they didn't they finish top of the Champions League they're top of the league but I felt like we just got a bit carried away and mixed up but we're you know maybe you just don't want to see those signs but and it just felt nice to believe again but I do feel like we do we we did believe a bit too much.

19:37Yeah, but that's our job. Yeah, I know. What's the point of going to the game? What's the point of putting on the TV if you don't believe something? And a week with a new manager, you know, new manager, we all, by the end, we all kind of hated Thomas Frank, didn't we, by the end, by the end of his tenure there. And yeah, you've got to believe something. And I did. You know, we've had 12 days off, you know, got a new coach. They've had to play in midweek. They look tired in midweek. But I hate to do it, but you've got to almost credit them because they came out quick and they stopped us being able to get – our team is a team completely devoid of confidence.

20:20And they came out and they stifled us immediately and they sapped any confidence from us from the first whistle and they just smothered us because they're a fucking much better football team than us. Even without the 13 injuries, they're just a much better team that have spent an insane amount of money, but more importantly, have recruited really, really well. There's not many duds there. Like other than the two dickheads that scored yesterday, them two have been duds, but the rest of the players they've brought have been really good. And, you know, our recruitment has been woeful. It's been terrible for years.

20:55We're on our third manager, and the third manager to not fancy Matisse Tell, who we spent 40 million quid on. It's just, you know, he's come in first game, looked at Tell and gone, no thanks, left him on the bench. So it's just, and I'm not digging out Tell, it's just an example of kind of the bad recruitment we've had. But they just stifled us from the first whistle. And it would have been a hard enough game even with all of our players fit. But with 13 players out, it was a nigh impossible job in the end. And they just stifled us in the end. We never really got into it. Although I would say, and I'm sure we're going to get onto it, the referee was a fucking disgrace.

21:29Okay, let's talk about that. because the second goal, what should have been our second goal and Mouane, who... I mean, if there was anything to take away from that performance, it's that Mouane is still a player. He was playing on the shoulder of the defender and that's the instruction. You know, he wasn't coming deep. He wasn't trying to hold up. He was playing on the shoulder of Saliba and of Gabriel, depending on where we were in that build-up. And there was opportunities. Took his goal really well. capitalised off a mistake, should have scored a second goal. And just as someone who could potentially lead the line and offer something different, for instance, Solanke, especially a player who's played under Tudor at Juve and had his best spell under him, that he knows what he's got there.

22:20And it felt like he was switched on, like he understood what Tudor was requesting from him. And maybe it was similar at Juve. I don't know, fingers crossed through the next two months, two or three months, we'll see that more often. But yeah, the second goal, it was really soft. Really, really soft. He put two hands on the back of Gabriel's back, but no one falls down like that. It's not a foul if it's in the middle of the pitch. I know that there's a lower bar when it comes to what penalty should be given, a higher bar. But he bought it. The referee bought it completely. Now my issue is I've seen that decision go over and over and over again.

23:05And I knew that it would be given as soon as, as soon as you saw it, it doesn't mean it's right or it doesn't mean the referee's right to do it. But, and how is actually Mwani supposed to attack the ball in that circumstance? Is it, do you want the only, the only way to challenge a ball in that area is to literally go man, body to body and then jump for it? are you allowed to stand off are you allowed to use your hands to palm off a defender what are you allowed to do and why aren't you allowed to do he wasn't pushed in the way he went down no no but you've seen him given so many times he wasn't surprised is where I was at except for when it was Christian Romero in the Liverpool game it wasn't given then but it was given yesterday so what so Romero was pushed so Eketike climbed pushed Romero in the back harder than that actually in the game earlier this season and pushed him in the back harder than that, and they gave the goal.

24:01And Gary Neville said on commentary that he should have been stronger. Whereas yesterday, Gary Neville was like, there, like he does, to prove that it was a foul. It was just the double standards in the refereeing. Well, the facts back it up with the refereeing is that we get yellow carded more per foul than any other team in the league. And then you get the double standards on commentary as well. And I know I'm being a bit tin hat, but I enjoy it. But it's there for all to see. I'm not making it up. we get yellow cards more than any other team per foul. It's like every four fouls we get a yellow card.

24:34Man United's every seven fouls. And then Gary Neville, yeah, in one game says, Romero should be stronger there. And then yesterday, he's at pains to point out how it was a foul. It's just, yeah, it's just, like I said, double standards. Anything to add, Rick? Yeah, well, I mean, I've watched it back. and if you're the ref and you visually, you can see two hands on the lower of his back and you can see the push, the way that he moves and he falls over, it's fucking well over the top. But sometimes you've got to do stuff like that to con a ref and that's exactly what he did. He conned the ref. Now, for Mouane and like you were saying, Cal for Ekotike's goal Romero um that was given so why wasn't this given or why wasn't that one ruled out and like this one was ruled out and then what you were saying as well Flav um how else is he going to compete for that ball the only thing I was trying to think of it is um you know when you try and get that bit of separation when you use your forearm it's not as obvious as I've got two hands and I'm pushing you in the back.

25:48Maybe a bit of a shoulder, maybe a bit of a forearm, but you know, you're just picking it. You know, just, I don't know what else he was going to do. I think it's just because it's been called up because you can see he's clearly got two hands. And when I saw it, and when I saw the goal as well, I celebrated, but it was a kind of a half celebration because I knew it was going to get called up straight away. North London derby, fiery atmosphere. Without VAR, he would have given it as well, though, wouldn't he? It felt like the referee was waiting to blow. Yeah. That was the thing I wanted to say, actually, was yesterday, because everyone knows how much we all were.

26:28I hate VAR, but we all hate VAR. But that wasn't a VAR thing yesterday. That was the referee. And from the first whistle, the referee was involving himself far too much. He was wanting to be so involved in the game. It's a derby. And it's probably the derby. For me, it's the biggest derby in the country. it's bigger than all the others because all the others are just too friendly for me and it's it's the it's the actually the derby with the most spite in it and the the most hatred amongst the two sets of supporters and the teams and stay out the way ref unless something mental happens fucking stay out the way but he just wanted to be involved he wanted it to be about him from the first whistle he was just far too involved and that that decision there epitomizes that I've seen something really interesting a part of the narrative on Twitter and we use fan narrative to figure out what people are talking about online but there was a stat, you wouldn't have seen this Ricky but there was a stat that said that after Mouane scored our equaliser that we'd only had one touch in Arsenal's box whereas I've had many touches in your mum's box sorry no no no that was good that was relative I like those ones relative it was nice it was excellent yeah yeah I like those shouldn't apologise never no no not for that one that was good it was really really good okay sorry alright let me get back on point so Arsenal had 24 touches in your mum's box in your mum's box nice nice it felt like that watching it I was like, this is terrible.

28:07This is about as bad as that. Anyway, so they had 24 touches in the Tottenham box and we had one touch. We all have that dream trip we've been wishing we could go on. But too often, life, or usually price, gets in the way. That's why Priceline is here to help you turn your dream trip into reality. With up to 60 % off hotels and up to 50 % off flights, you can book everything you need for your next adventure. Don't just dream about that next trip. Book it with Priceline. Download the Priceline app or visit Priceline.com and book your next trip today. Got your happy price. Priceline. The world moves fast.

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30:00if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with EBCLIS. Before starting EBCLIS, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Ask your doctor about EBCLIS and visit ebglis.lily.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. You know, there was a lot of fans that had come out and said that while Sky Sports were claiming that Spurs had only one touch in the Arsenal box, Moani actually took two touches before scoring. So that would have been three touches. Meaning the stat was actually incorrect. this it wasn't just like a creative area perhaps it speaks to a wider issue of stats being weaponized narratively mid-game like if if their statistics have got to be 100 correct what is a touch in the box because it changes the mood about how you feel about your football club right i'm not suggesting that the the flow of the game would have been in any way influenced if we had all of the information the players don't know anything about it doesn't make any difference but how we interpret the game and how we feel about it are directly impacted by statistics and um and statistics can be used to make someone sound way more intelligent about the game than they are we know people have created careers out of that right so but but what's actually happening on the football pitch when you're watching it and how a fan base feels in terms of their mood towards the team they support or the team that they're supporting against, the fact that they're getting something so basic like that incorrectly.

31:31How many touches did Mawani take before scoring? Three or two plus the shot. So that's three touches. So why then does the stat come up that it says it's one? And people go, what does it matter? It impacts how we feel. It directly impacts how we feel because we believe that Sky Sports are getting the data correct when clearly they haven't because it was so obvious to see. Does that frustrate you boys at all? I mean, I didn't see it, but yeah, it is. There's been loads of things, loads of occasions. And I've seen some recently as well. It's like similar to that. But it's like, how are these things being measured?

32:12And then it does make us look kind of, like we're obviously fuming with Thomas Frank because we've had, you know, you could bring any stat up to it. But it's like, how has that been calculated? And what is it we're believing? And all these graphics that have been shared, like you were saying about the fouls per card. So that was the athletic graphic that's been, you know, for us to talk about that now, because it's good for us and it's our narrative, let's talk about that. But then there are so many other ones that are floating about where it's just like, well, how is that? Have they created that?