S15E68 - Pull Me Out Of This

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1:28Come on boys I don't even know what a song this is Pull me out of this Pull me out of this Pull someone please I was oh Christ I was I was watching we started watching the game obviously Sunday and we pre-planned months ago that my brother and my my tiny teeny little nephew Emrys that they were coming over with family and my mum was coming and my dad obviously and his wife my step-mom Valerie if you're a patron of the fighting cop podcast and you want ad free podcasts and become patron patient.com forward slash the fighting cop you'll hear my ongoing issues with valerie my stepmother and when i say issues it's not like i'm having a guy or anything like or like well i have had a go that's the point i guess but but it's not like she's done anything wrong it's just that when i my custom these days now live well out of london is to watch football my dad he also lives near where I live now and it is to watch football at Spurs and obviously it's been very stressful recently and Valerie doesn't necessarily get involved with the tone of the game and the atmosphere she's not very good at picking up on the stress yeah the the how stressful experience following being a Spurs fan is right now and so we'll have conversations about stuff that doesn't relate to football like the curtains like we're getting done on the counter attack and she's talking about the lining of curtains so this is during so this is during the game when people when valerie is trying to like have these combos yeah because she just doesn't give a shit about it but it's always in the room when we're watching it which is fine it's her house i'm a guest yeah yeah yeah i'm a guest anyway look there's a long ride i mean i i sent the message into patreon during the game against atletico madrid and we were 10 minutes in and we were talking about lego oh lego lego yeah well that's where a rogue one she likes a bit of lego or jigsaw or making curtains anyway the point is um i don't want to point this uh so i yeah we we um all those people over my brother ross um his missus and the two girls are over so it was packed he had will and my son daughter packed fucking that's ramo in the main room i tell you ramo in the main room but weren't all in the main room.

4:13They were sort of separated or spread across the house. I can't tell you how nervous I was before this game. I don't think I've been more nervous about a game of football since perhaps Bodo glimped away in the semi-final earlier on this year. Really? Yeah, because I didn't know what to expect then, Rick. I didn't know. And we were three one up. And everyone kept telling me about the fucking Arctic Circle and all that. Was it? Was that this year? Yeah, we did win the Overleague this year and we are facing down the barrel of relegation this year. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. So, yeah, something like that.

4:55And so the game, I was so nervous. I was so nervous because I really did, I well bought into the fact that it was a six-pointer. And so as the goals were flowing in in the second half, it was really hard to understand what was going on because my world was crumbling around me and everyone else was just having a nice time cooking a roast dinner drinking wine and that yeah and then me and my dad and my brother looking at each other like this is this is the end my only friend that is like bottom three experiences ever as a football fan when you're surrounded by people who literally couldn't give a shit about what's going on and they're just going about their daily life and they don't understand how much devastation that this is causing you it's like you know because i said said to my mum my mum said to me will your um will your business you know your work will it be affected if you get relegated and i went yeah yeah mum yeah yeah well she went what do you mean you learn less money yeah yeah yeah yeah this isn't just about football mum this is about my fucking livelihood and then anyway anyway i uh i dropped them i dropped them back after the game after we've already eaten dinner and stuff and my mum looked at me genuinely teary-eyed she went i've got 200 pounds in a saving account you can have and i said mum that won't touch her sides get back to work she looked at me with teary-eyed she was teary-eyed because they don't fucking understand the impact, the fallout, the splash damage of what's going on at Spurs at the moment.

6:32My mum is crying her eyes out in front of me saying he's 200 quid. How can you put it in like a Lego curtains jigsaw contest? Sorry, that's very much. No, I know, but if you were trying to explain it to Valerie. In the comment section, you said, explain it to me in football terms. Yeah, exactly. So explain it to me. Explain it to me in the complete opposite of football terms. So if you're a 74-year-old woman, how would you explain it to something that would be as impactful? I don't know, like your pacemaker would start being on the blink. Yeah, or it's like, who's like a really old TV personality that they loved growing up dies?

7:10Yeah, like Bob Monkhouse when he went. Yeah, well, my nan would be like, she always used to talk to me about Engelbert Humperdinck. Oh, yeah, mate, legend. If Engelbert Humperdinck died, I think she would probably, well, he's dead, isn't he? Yeah, he's dead, yeah. Yeah, he is. It is. Great name as well. Do you know what? I've spent a lot of time with Ben over the last 48 hours. And it's only when you spend time with him and you realise just how young he is. Yeah. No, I know. I'm 28. I'm 28. I'm not that young. Why are you saying not 28 as if that's like... I would kill you. I'm 43. I could be your dad.

7:46Yeah, I'm lucky. Seven years away from being 50, just fucking throw me in the grave. that's how i feel at the moment do you know i said to my missus i said that when i got in right she uh this is so bad but uh i'd right i'll i'll be clean and i'll be honest with you guys right i had a skinful on the sunday right because you know the sun was shining i got carried away and i had a lovely day in that three pints as well three three pints and when i got back in um um she was like i saw i saw the um i saw the score and i was like yeah you didn't even have to say that and then i was just laying on the sofa i took my trainers off and i still in my coat a light jacket laying on the sofa just staring up at the ceiling the tv weren't even on and she'd gone upstairs just to let me be let me stew like 45 minutes later or whatever she comes down and the room's all dark and i'm just laying staring staring at the ceiling right she goes are you okay and i was like not really and she goes do you want to talk about it and i said at the moment i feel like being lowered into my grave while i'm still awake and the mug just falling down on my face and just laying there in silence and she was like i'll go make you a tea didn't you come home and go what's for dinner better be lovely I hope it's delicious.

9:12I hope it's delicious out of here. Fuck it. Fuck it. My week's going so badly. Better be delicious. I had a similar thing where I feel really bad about this and I hope he doesn't listen, but it got to like five minutes to go and my old man was like, I'll meet you downstairs once the game's done because I stay and do like a little TikTok afterwards after the game's done. And I said to him, I was like, I lied. And I just said, that's all right. You can go. I'm going to go to the pub. I'm going to meet my mates. my mates still got home yeah I just wanted to I just I could not deal with the moaning like the whole way home you need it sometimes yeah I walked down the high road as far as I could go and I actually did end up going to the beehive for one and then came out and then just carried on walking for a bit and was just like when do I stop I just didn't want to go home I didn't want to go home I didn't want to go home I didn't want to go home with it yeah I feel bad, but I couldn't go home with him.

10:13I needed to just be silent for a bit. Yeah, mate, I understand. We went 2-0 down and I'd chosen, because I had this sort of superstition that obviously doesn't work, that if I leave the room, we won't concede. And I left the room and we conceded the corner after we'd had about 17 corners. They had one or two. and then I was like fuck it I went out for a cigarette and my dad well we conceded the second which was a that was the dagger when it was right there right there right there right in the heart that one and then and my dad come out to tell me that they'd scored the second goal like I couldn't fucking hear the TV I know the fucking yeah and I couldn't look at him and I went dad I know

11:08he's like you got you got you got a you got a lighter mate it's like you haven't smoked it what's the thing gavin and stacy where it's like i might fancy a cigarette it's like you've not smoked since 1981 oh mate i smoked a lot that day i was like when the forest scored their first goal i was like because obviously i'd had a few beers i was like right down i'm busted for the toilet i've got to go and the game was still being played and i've gone into the toilet and i'm having a and I hear this roar and I'm like, what the fuck was that? And I'm like, everyone's like, have we scored? Have they scored?

11:38Like no one knows what the fuck is going on. And I'm looking everywhere. Piss is going everywhere because I don't know what I'm doing and where I'm trying to get information. But apparently it was when Romero got pushed or Richarlison hit the bar or something like that. Tell it a bar. Yeah. And I was just like, just standing there. I love the fact that Piss was going everywhere because you needed information. Yeah. And just still pissing, just looking left and right. he's got the data he's got the info someone tell me quick well we had tell hit the bar and then it fell and I think it looked like a penalty in real time but it definitely wasn't yeah the game was a sham and we needed to discuss the kind of reasons why that might be but and also apologies for not getting this out yesterday I was asked for a favour and I had to go to London which wrote I actually wrote Ben's day off as well so I just basically I didn't want to record yesterday because I was so upset and then Ben said I'm going to do my podcast tomorrow and I was like I'm going to do my podcast tomorrow I'm doing mine tomorrow I'm not doing it today someone messaged in didn't they this morning it was like our past seven this morning someone tweeted is Flav alright Ricky very kindly he went we're doing the podcast today he's fine um right but at the scenes outside the stadium it's almost a shame because if we'd won this game we could wax lyrical for 45 minutes about what an incredible fan base we have and what we witnessed outside that that stadium because it was just unreal yeah i mean like that's the thing like you were saying that you were really nervous and I didn't had hadn't even crossed my mind that anything like sure things can go wrong but I knew being there and getting to getting to like I got the train at like nine in the morning and uh went to the cafe my dad met up my cousin having a lovely time a lovely day the sun was shining people are out everyone's wearing white it was beautiful and then we walked down you know the high road, swigging our cans, getting right to the end where the brick lays is and just seeing the amount of people and just hearing, just being like a gently carried on the tump of a drum.

14:06And as you get closer, it gets louder and louder. And then you feel it in your chest and you can hear everyone else and everyone's there. And you're like, fuck, this is, this is it. This is on top now. And just the kind of the swirling of different sounds and people meet each other and it was just a real kind of joyous occasion 10 000 i reckon at least 10 000 yeah i think yeah because both sides of the road opposite the where the brickies is and then opposite it was packed yeah like pretty much until where the sort of crossroad is where they come down from white heart lane it was i reckon there was yeah at least 10 000 people yeah oh for sure and And then like every, it felt like every five minutes, there's like a blue smoke bomb going off and then a white one.

14:55And then the cheers going up and a W3 bus would go past and everyone's cheering for a bus going past. And then the away fans, the forest bus, that was fun. That was so funny. It pulls in and it's fucking stops. And then everyone's just giving him wanker signs and there's a bit of banter. And then the boys roll in. You can't see in the bus, can you either? It's like blacked out windows. So you don't like, No, the Tottenham bus you couldn't, but this was a fan bus. The away coach for Forrest fans. Any shoes? No shoes. I don't think so. There was one old woman on the Forrest bus who was just giving up and giving it a fuck.

15:33It was actually quite funny. No, but throwing shoes at a bus is folklore for Spurs. When Sol Campbell returned with Arsenal, it might have been Portsmouth or Arsenal, one of the other two, and um the uh the coach came back and like someone just started throwing their shoes they were so angry they needed any kind of projectile and the only thing they could think of that had enough sort of substance on their body was the shoes on their feet they were so angry so angry they're trying to get their mate to join in as well but their mates got high top converse and they're having to go all the way down all the laces oh fucking so angry i won't be a minute that reminds me of Ricky's converse it would take him about six six six or at least seven minutes to get your shoes off when he got a fucking nightmare just get the get the the the low ones um yeah so uh yeah and then our bus turned up Rick yeah then our our bus turned up and um like I don't know what I was expecting but um when it came around then obviously then And everyone like greeting it, chant going up and all the smoke bombs going off.

16:44And it was just a real kind of that togetherness there. And from all of that, all of that goodwill, all of that feeling. And then obviously we're going into the stadium, going to the South Stand and where everyone congregates and starts singing songs. And we get fucking buy one, get one free on the beer as well. Like what better day? How did that work? What a fucking day. It was basically quarter past 12 to a half one. You just had to buy, you can mix and match them as well. So it's literally like if you bought two pints, you'd just get a free one. It was that simple. It wasn't anything convoluted.

17:22Yeah. This is another person I've just read. I just jumped onto Reddit in case there's any breaking information. And another person said, it's Tuesday morning, there's still no episode of the fine cock. Can someone do a welfare check on Flav? Mate, I had to archive about 16 chats on Saturday. Yeah, I did a few as well. Did you? But the problem is, I know people and they might be listening to this and it's not personal. It's just I can't... If something really bad has happened to Spurs, I can't... I can't have that conversation with you and then another person, another person, another person, another person because I have to protect myself.

18:05About 20 minutes after the game ended, I had a text from my old boss who was a Forrest fan saying I'm in the bluecoats if you fancy a pint oh yeah I was like yeah that's good yeah yeah nice one where exactly in the bluecoats are you what are you having what are you having you want another one fuck off we're going down you cunt exactly we're fucking cunt we're going down you want a pint in the bluecoats do you all chipper asking me for a ticket before the game as well yeah fuck lovely bloke by the way I'm not listening to this but i was like are you are you for real i said are you for real yeah no i don't want to talk to you yeah um and it begs the question when like you say ricky you was outside the ground there was there was like 10 to 15 000 fans out there and kudos to the boys who put that together because um unreal work um for those that are listening to this and haven't listened to the last episode of the lab which is available on this stream if you just click back probably won't want to do that now but um we talked to the boys involved and they did great work and there was a good energy from the club to make sure it happened the police local police were good with it and harringy council were good with it just shows you the level of bureaucracy that exists in order to do something so simple as to greet your team as they arrive in the stadium but such as it is and they did amazing work and it looked incredible and the videos that go around were incredible and you realise what a massive football...

19:34We know what a massive football club we are, but that doesn't happen to everybody. You know, Everton do this, but not on that scale. Like, we are massive. Yeah. So, go on. I was going to say, it was the same as the trophy parade as well. Like, how many people turned out for that. That was one of those moments where you realise how big of a club we actually really are. Definitely. And then Sunday, obviously, on a more of a micro scale, but the fact that... I think the thing that kind of hurts the most after the game is the fact that there was so much effort that went into it off the back of two performances.

20:10We'd seen signs in two games to then want to put the wheels in motion. I know it was kind of going on before, but to really show up like that after just two games, and the bar has been on the floor for so long, those were two good performances. But that kind of shows that's what it takes for, that's all it took for us to be like yeah we need to go kind of all in on this and try and ride that way from the last two games as much as possible it's just that i think that's what hurts the most i think rick what can you put it down to as to why when i say it didn't come together the players didn't play to how we thought they would we've been fed a lot of information and that just there was this general feeling the players had a you know massive issue with how they were treated by the Spurs fan base whether that be booing or people contacting them on social media yeah all that sort of stuff and then in the second half especially the first half was okay I'd say six six out of ten seven out of ten few opportunities certainly a desire perhaps not a tactical acumen but a desire to get the right result and it kind of just fell apart in the second half what I don't know what the question is here, Ricky, other than like, what did you make of our inability to perform?

21:36What I will say is I remember whilst I was watching the game and I remember sending a message to you guys on WhatsApp. Like, I was maybe 15 minutes in and I didn't really know where anyone was playing. like I was like in front of me okay so you guys said I'll back four but where where I was watching it was like Spence had shifted over and he was playing the right side of center back in the back three and then Danso was shifting over and then Porro was really high up and then like everyone kept changing and I was just watching Spence and he didn't know whether to go out and meet the ball and be aggressive or whether to sit back and let the ball come to him, let the player come to him.

22:23And then whilst he was doing that, then Poro was like, shit, I'm a right back, so I'll come back. And then Spence was – there was a lot of indecisiveness and just not knowing where should I be? Should I be further forward? No, no. Van de Venze, no, fuck. I need to be like – there was too much thinking. Do you know what I mean? That's what it felt like of, shit, I've been training all week that I need to cover this part of the pitch. And when these things happen, that's my kind of cue to run forward. And that's my cue to drop back or to switch with Sarr or whatever it might have been. But it just felt like there was a lot weighing on their minds that they were more focusing on what their roles, what they were told should have been during the week of this is where you're going to be playing rather than feeling it.

23:15does that make sense of Porro's a natural right back? So he knows where to play. And that's where now he's playing a different position and he's having to think about what he's doing and why he's in that position where he should be. It should be free flowing from him. So good. So good. So good. Spring styles are at Nordstrom rack stores now, and they're up to 60 % off stock up and save on rag and bone made. Well, Vince all scenes, and more of your favorites. How did I not know Rack has Adidas? Why do we Rack? For the hottest deals. Just so many good brands. Join the Nordiclub to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first, and more.

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24:27Imported by Mast Jägermeister, U.S., White Plains, New York. This episode is brought to you by Welch's Fruit Snacks. Big news for your kid's lunchbox. Welch's Fruit Snacks are now made without any artificial dyes. a snack parents can feel good about and the same delicious taste kids can't get enough of all made with no artificial dyes try welch's fruit snacks today and that's just not on par that's just an example by the way but yeah sorry go on i was gonna say that i think it speaks to a little bit what the problem was generally on sunday that i think with the sort of players or the amount of players that we have got back available now there were probably just a few too many square pegs in round holes still like kind of playing with Porro and Spence out there and neither of them really feeling like they knew what their role was there was a few times where like Porro was kind of screaming for Spence to go around the outside of him and that just didn't quite happen yeah Van der Ven playing at left back not maybe using the momentum from Wednesday where we probably played our best performance of the season in a three at the back with Xavi Simmons in the 10 and and Mawani up front I probably would have brought Richie back in for the game obviously on Sunday but not giving someone like Simmons a chance to kind of carry that on to then switch up again and kind of undo that good work and still put players in positions that didn't really feel like suited them and you know Bergvail coming out at halftime and playing out on the right I know we've not got a natural right ring winger at the moment but it's still just despite the fact that it actually was a decent first-half performance bearing in mind well like I said with anything positive you say about Spurs at the moment the bar is low but we still did okay but it still just felt a little bit uncomfortable and a bit there was not really a proper structure there i don't think it's a bit weird but just on that right like in terms of like i know statistics don't tell you everything but they tell you something about the result of challenges or a result of an action inside a pitch so like to suggest that we weren't working hard would be incorrect.

26:26I think Nathan from The Extra Inch, he said that we ran five kilometres more than the Nottingham Forest. If you look at the ground draws, we had 43 to their 39. Aerial draws, we won 28 to their 18. Dribbles, we had 13 to their six successful dribbles. Could it be? The answer is no. But could it be that we were unlucky? Or was there just ill discipline in the actual thing that statistics don't tell you, which is the flow of a game where in the wrong moments we made the wrong decisions and Gibbs White was left completely unmarked in order to score? I don't think the effort wasn't there. I just think maybe the plan wasn't there.

27:19And going back to what Ricky said is it's fine playing Sosa on the right hand side of a 4-4-2 in midfield if we get a result. If you don't, it looks mental. And you're right. Like we had Van der Ven playing as left back. You got Spence playing right back. You got Romero and Danto as a centre back pairing. Sometimes it was a free. Sometimes it was a flat four. and I just, it feels too complicated for what we need right now. I've got to do something where I've got to build the formation and first 11 of Spurs with the players we have available to us in order to keep us up. And my gut feeling is to just make it as simple as possible.

28:12Who are our best players? our best players are you would argue not in recent form but Van Der Ven Romero Archie Gray Tell who am I missing boys? and probably Richarlison in the current context yeah okay alright alright so what do you do in order to give your players playing in their best positions the opportunity to shine without actually overthinking the stuff that you mentioned Rick about overthinking where they're supposed to be is create a formation that you can place those players in. So even if some of these players are not in form, my feeling here, and we did this on the ripple effect yesterday, didn't we, Ben?

28:55But my feeling is it is free at the back, and it's wing-backs of Adoghi and Porro. Get Porro in a position where he can cross the ball, and then you have a midfield of Archie Gray and another, whether it's Papsar or Gallagher, but probably Papsar. And then you have two 10s of Tell, which is where we have a little bit of leeway here and a little bit of quality or sort of reputational quality. Mwani, Xavi Simmonds, Tell, or Richarlison or Solanke up top and them into, you know, exchanging. Or you just put one forward and use one of those three in Xavi Simmonds, Tell and Mwani as the... And you have Kudus to choose from as well for Sunderland probably.

29:44So Kudus could easily play in that 10. Easily. Easily. So if he is back, then he could do that. So it just feels like sometimes Igor Tudor is overcomplicating. And I say this stuff and you think, what the fuck, man? I think he won a Champions League from the peripheries with Juventus. So I'm sure he has some ideas, but just in this moment, it just feels like make it simple, make it really, really simple. And I think that's, that's what my, my team would be. But I just, I just, but, but then, but then this is my question to you, Rick, based on everything I've just said. Yeah. If you're going into this next game against Sundlund, which is like three weeks away, which might as well be a year away.

30:34Do you look at the good work that's been done at Liverpool and the amazing win against Atletico Madrid? Like, we beat them legitimately and fairly. Or do you focus on the forest and change? As in manager? No, as in tactics. Imagine that Trudor's staying until the end of the season. For me, I would try and put it back to basics. and what it feels like to me, I'm going to butcher this, so I'm glad I'm saying it on a podcast that thousands of people listen to. Tens of thousands. Yeah, tens of thousands. Is it Einstein? Shit, you're looking at me now. No, no, no, no. You ain't getting away with this, boys.

31:20You're finishing sentence. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Yeah. I don't know if it's Einstein. No, I don't even know. People say it's Einstein and I don't actually think it was. And I think there is actually another bit that goes on to that. You know what I'm fucking talking about, right? And it feels like, right, we're playing Liverpool today. Soza, you're going to play on the right side of a four. Right, against Forest today. Tell, you're going to play in goal. And it's just like trying these different combinations of different, you know, different variations of things to try and get a different result.

31:55But we keep losing and losing and losing. and it's like, right, this one last bit, this is the bit that's going to get us there. And it just, I think chopping and changing too much is causing us not to get any rhythm and not to understand where people are playing. If we have rhythm against Liverpool and Athletic. Did we? You what, mate? Did we have, you what, mate? Did we have, definitely, did we have rhythm against Liverpool and Athletic and Madrid? Yeah. We did. Yeah. It started at Liverpool, didn't it? yeah and there were times I know we didn't punish Forrest but there were times where that wasn't a 3-0 defeat no overall I don't think so I mean it was I think on another day there is another world where Spurs go into that half time 1 or 2-0 up like we and obviously Tudor has changed Chopchin changed a lot and I do agree that it's not allowed us to build any sort of consistency or rhythm or you know someone like Simmons not kind of being able to build off of what was his probably best performance of the season in the game where Forrest did sit back and sit back.

33:03And it felt like having a bit more creativity in that game would actually kind of help us. It felt like to me, he kind of wanted to just get the ball wide and get it in the box. And because Forrest were kind of sitting so deep and I think they kind of carried on like retreating throughout the first half. And we were able to kind of get joy from certain situations where Richie could get around the back post or whatever. but they just dealt with everything in their box so much better than what we did which is something that Harry was talking about when we did the ripple effect yesterday like their kind of leadership and strength from the back in Murillo and Milinkovic compared to what we had it's just night and day but I've seen the size of those cunts yeah yeah but he said they want to do it as well like they just want it I think Romero just like I was listening to TalkSport earlier and Paul was losing his mind because Romero came out with a quote in an interview he was like I'll give 200 % between now and the end of the season.

33:55And it was like, where the fuck was that on Sunday? Literally when it mattered the most. Like you've jumped up, you've let a ball go in behind you and you're walking in your own penalty area. It's not just him that's to blame for it. I think they're all just panicking because there's no organisation and no leadership, which he is the one that's responsible for that. Because Sar is too bothered about the ball. So he lets Morgan Gibbs-White completely free. Romero is literally just walking, not saying anything to anybody. And then they'll have the easiest goal they'll score all season. I think you asked an interesting question at the start of this kind of whole piece where you were like, do you think it's more about effort when you were talking about what Nathan was saying?

34:31Whether it's more about effort or is it just that lack of quality? I think when you get into these situations, which we've obviously not been in in the Premier League in terms of, well, we have a relegation battle, but not in recent times, I suppose. I feel like the effort thing, although we did see it with Romero there, it is such a lazy thing to throw out, I think in times like this like because it's just you know people focus so much on the intangibles and like they're not playing for the shirt and all those kind of things and fans have a right to throw that out because they feel frustrated if we go into games and watching them just get beat and it's like you know those I guess tropes are going to kind of that's what people are going to say right but it's so much bigger than that I think the players are just I don't think it's they're not trying other than that Romero maybe example which was just embarrassing but I think they're freezing a little bit I just think they're panicking a lot of the time because they've not been in this situation whereas the other teams down there have and i just think it's easy to generalize it and just say they're not working hard enough they're not doing this they're not doing that i think it's because we get so frustrated harry harry made a really good point yesterday um and he was saying that there are the the forest fans the you know the the manager the players they and and the same thing for west ham same thing for Leeds is they live here that they have been here so many times they're players based on the fabric of the football club and and usually this is a negative because no one wants to be fighting relegation consistently but if you have that experience you're comfortable in it you realize that one result isn't the be-all and end-all that result on Sunday to me was like we're going down the results previously was it that we're going down this is it it's over it's done and I think as a fan base we're feeling that as well because we have we've got no precedent in in the modern era to understand what's happening to the football club and that's part the reason why you saw tens of thousands of Spurs fans greet the coach into a game that could or could not define the end of the season but but sorry the the result at the end of the season but because we're so stunned by this situation we are reacting in extreme measures but what you're actually seeing from west dam and from forest and from leeds is like no this is a part of it you might lose a bad one but next time you pick yourself up and you go again whereas we think if we lose a bad one it is fucking done because we've got no we've got no we've got no barometer to measure against.

37:05Which is why I'm not even sure I would actually sack Tudor. I think he will get to the end of the season. I generally do. Do you think he will? I feel like... Did you say, what do I... What both do you think? Do you think we should sack him?

37:25Honestly, as much as to say that... How can I word this without sounding like I'm fucking part of the woke karate, the woke brigade. To say sack him would, I wouldn't want to say sack, but relieve him of his duties or to say something a bit more, I don't know. Do you want him in charge of Sunderland? No, I don't. No, no, I don't. Because I don't want to go through seven more games of tinkering, trying to find the right combination. I want someone to come there back to basics and just get them playing. Just go in there. How do you guys want to play? What's your best positions? We'll do that until the fucking season's over.

38:13But you have to give me everything because this is what you wanted and it's going to be on you. It's not going to be on me because of trying to do different tactics and this and that and the other. But this is going to be on you guys now because this is the way that you want it. and just try and play that because I feel like we're going to be chasing our tail by holding on to Tudor. And this is going to sound really fucking awful. And I realize how awful this is going to sound, right? Is it racist? No, I wish it was. Honestly. But we have no idea of the impact Tudor losing his dad is going to have.

38:53Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. So you want him sacked, Rick? yeah yeah yeah you lost your dad yeah focus on the job or focus on your dad pick one we ain't got time to dilly dally yeah your uh your will your will from the in between us last month you know what i mean though like yeah it's gonna weigh you know if that happened to me i like i'd be like i i would even be like mate just fucking take the football club i don't i haven't got time to deal with this now yeah yeah 100 yeah i think that's fair yeah it is it is just came out really badly well i know yeah yeah it's the fighting cut right now as well what else do you want um do you have and i'm not suggesting that you should have a solution here ricky um because i i don't have i didn't have one before tudor arrived and i don't have one now but if you just had to throw out a name to manage Spurs at Sunderland, who would it be?

40:01If I was to throw out a name, like any name, like just, you know. No, not just random. Don't say fucking like. Oh, I was going to say Nigel lives three doors down. Yeah, yeah. Not Carson Hull. Not Hull, but someone you think could work or you're saying you don't believe in Tudor, you're sweating. Yeah, yeah. I know. Take the hoodie off. No, no, no. Take it off. If I'm going to pick a name out of the air and brace yourselves, I'm going to go with... I'm going to go with Ange. You can't keep saying that. He's not going to come back. No, no. You're saying just pick a name. No, I'm not. I'm picking a realistic name.