S15E73 - It's All On Him

0:28They say you should learn something new everyday. it's the fighting cock it's the fighting

0:40it's the fighting cock

0:47what was that what you decided drinking a bottle of water and then just went off to the side because i thought that you'd started recording uh so i was trying to be a professional because on Below the Belt the other day, I got told off for eating Easter egg on the podcast because in my mind, it's still 2015 and we're still at Ball Street munching Caramel Krispies and Percy Pigs while recording podcasts. But it's not that. Yeah, I know, right? I know, right? We could do what we like. And I've actually been thinking about this a little bit, actually, because there's obviously a lot of talk about Tottenham's potentially ended up in the championship and our regression as a football club.

1:26are we allowed to regress as a podcast i think so yeah yeah are we allowed to go backwards yeah yeah i mean backwards would be um standing around in this weird little room in the job that i used to have and um standing around a single mic yeah yeah and and everyone would be eating and drinking beer i think there was a certain charm to that definitely it was it was interesting because i when i don't know if i was talking to you about this or was it ricky i don't of went where it was it might have been on this on this on the fine cock but um there was a time i just thought we're always gonna we're always always gonna record in person yeah it won't be a world i would i'd move to wiltshire where i'm now and i would get a train back on a monday just to do the pod and then a train back home on tuesday because i was just so convinced and then lockdown happened but made it impossible and then it became clear that they won't give a shit whether you're in person or not yeah and technology just it moved so so quickly in such a short space of time yeah since then as well like in caster and riverside change the game for podcasters 100 like i remember doing the notorious pod with with john bass and felonious and we did that in uh during covid and the that during that kind of lockdown period and we were doing it on skype and it was fucking and i and you listen back to it now the podcasts were great like they were really good yeah but the sound was terrible like it was awful i did you might remember i did um a podcast series called no holds barred which was just this was during lockdown obviously we're just finding ways to make content and stay alive um and i i so so the purpose this lots of the podcasts not all the interviews are up i don't know why but most of the interviews i did back in 2000 in 2000 2001 let's wait 2020 and 2021 um they're all still up there and i listen back to i've occasionally dabbled and dipped back in and it sounds terrible like awful like i'd be embarrassed to put that out and now uh now here we are um we did it when it is thursday there's no midweek game and usually we do a q a podcast and i was just like i don't know i just felt like maybe the appetite might not be there and and what what the questions we're gonna be asked the same questions that just keep getting asked which is fine it's just that we we know where we're at um so i found some things we can talk about but i just wanted to uh i just wanted to talk to you and find find out what what where you're at with it because i've got a little segment coming up that I've nicked off of the amazing work someone's done on Reddit.

4:15I'm going to give them all the credit in the world. But it's essentially the players you respect at Tottenham right now. That won't take long. So this guy, his username is SoyalJP. And he basically spoke to the entirety of the R-Koi's Reddit. and found out exactly how respected these players are. Some interesting ones in there. I think it was a month ago when they did it after the Fulham game, if you remember. So that was before Liverpool and before Atletico Madrid. But before we do that, where are you mentally with this season? I know you're suffering like all of us. Yeah. But are you like, I'm mentally prepared to go down and I'm going to see what the future holds?

5:04Or do you think there's this somehow, which is where I'm at, is I just feel like we're going to somehow do it? I don't know how we're going to win our free home game. We're going to win our free home games and we'll get a draw away somewhere. Yeah. And there's nothing in the run-up to this that made me think that this is possible other than the Zerby coming in. Yeah. But, and Doggy, he did an interview this week and said, yeah, we're going to do this. We're going to get out of it. Wow. so I just want to know where you are I

5:46we did five statements and at the weekend after the Suns on the game that was hard if you want instant match reaction to another miserable Tottenham loss then become a patron I was doing it on my own I was doing alright I think and then Cal turned up and I saw his face and I was like oh no he's taking this bad i am i was not i did not take that well i guess yeah i guess uh i guess because um it's the hope that kills you right um you have this new coach he's very highly rated it was a fresh opportunity we'd had three weeks to prepare for the game and they looked like exactly the same team that we'd been watching for weeks and weeks particularly in the second half when they could barely string two passes together they it just looks like such a team that's just so devoid of any sort of confidence or ideas of what they're doing right now i don't see a way that we get out i don't think we'll get out of it i do think we're going to go down just because we're the worst team in the league have been for months and we just we look so bad that i just can't and the other teams are doing stuff like leeds won the other night west ham won last week forest got a draw we can't find a result at the minute that's the concerning anything sorry what was you saying no we haven't been able to find a result all season unless it was in the Champions League but I have to caveat that with if we win a game if we if we beat Brighton I think I'm good on it I think I'm probably not going to watch Brighton I think I'm going to go and do something else what what so talk me through that what why because I'm dreading the game and I I was dreading the Sunderland game I didn't want to watch it I met my dad for lunch actually breakfast we went and got some breakfast before the game.

7:33And I was talking to him, I was like, I'm just really, really nervous. I feel horrible about this football match. And I feel horrible about the idea of watching Tottenham, which isn't the purpose. That's not the purpose of all of this. Or maybe it is. Maybe this is a part of it. Like you can't, we shouldn't be in this situation. It's crazy that we are. We generate all this money, but you have to accept in football, nothing is guaranteed. And it just seems like is less guaranteed for Tottenham than it is everybody else. I don't know. The craziness of us being put through this situation as fans is just unprecedented.

8:12I was speaking to a journalist from the Financial Times yesterday. They're putting together a piece. And he was saying the story for us in the Financial Times, for obvious reasons, isn't the amount you can win by winning the Premier League or the title chase between Manchester City and Liverpool, sorry, and Arsenal, and the failing of Liverpool as a title-winning team, it's Tottenham. That's all people are interested in. It's just Tottenham. And it's interesting because we... I've been booked for the Saturday Social Show. I know people hate that, but I'm just giving you an example. I hadn't been booked for a year.

8:55Ben Bowman had been booked, and it's more his age group. right more he's you know he talks to the younger fans i think better than i do anyway so he was booked he was getting but i hadn't been on there for ages and then suddenly got booked three weeks in four wow because it was about it weren't about combined 11s it was about how is top going to get themselves out of this situation people are obsessed by it and i think all of us as fans are feeling the weight of that a little bit so it's not just having to experience the relegation of your football club potentially but it's also the pressure of the attention it's not comfortable like we signed up to this willingly or our dad's made us yeah yeah i fucking did it voluntarily my dad's my dad was from berry and supported manny why are you talking about that there's no there's no rhyme or reason behind it really i'm one of five boys my older brother was a gooner kind of um i think he went to one game in his life and john jensen was there uh my directly younger brother beneath me the one that's into arm wrestling won his arm wrestling match the other day um fucking bang get down mug um they probably kick off they probably kick off when they win you know they probably get in i think because it takes what you mean he's into arm is he like is he fat or is he ripped no my brother he's not he's not ripped but he's not fat he's quite stocky actually do you know what you you are a well a well-built brethren i think you're every time i see you cal i don't know why i mentally put you in a smaller man's body i don't i don't know why that happens yeah when you turn up i'm like yeah you are a unit you did say that to me actually i when i was a kid i was tiny and my the people i hung out with was my cousin who's six foot three now and my mate jeff who's about six foot two they're both big old fucking boys and my mate jeff was a big fat bastard as well bless him and um so i was always the runt i was always this little and i was skinny i was a skinny little fucker and i think i carried myself like that because that's what i wasn't you know you're but you're you're you're you're a bigger bloke than you yeah yeah you're six two easy i am i am now but i think because so much of my formative years I was this little skinny little twin.

11:16You wheeled yourself into being bigger. And then I woke up one day, I was 15 or something. I woke up one day and gone, morning, mum. Got any of my toes? Get my eggs ready. Got any of my toes, mum. I turned into this fucking, and my brother was 5 '7", and I was suddenly six foot, I'm like six foot one and a half or something now. So you've got a brother, all of you, same mum and dad? Same mum and dad, yeah. And one of your brothers is 5 '7", and you're 16? Yeah, my older brother's like 5 '6", 5 '7". Oh, I'm the biggest. And then I saw you after COVID, actually. First time I'd seen you probably in a year.

11:50And we had a little meetup. I can't remember where it was, somewhere in South London. And you said to me, cow, I forget you're a fucking lump. And I felt 10 feet tall. I was like, oh, what am I? How big am I? How big am I? I'll smash your face in. Who wants it? Who wants it? But yeah, my younger brother's well into arm wrestling. Can you beat your brothers up? No, no. I actually really rebel. There's been a couple of occasions where we've gone on birthday dinners and the two of them will start bickering and they'll start almost semi-arguing. You can feel the tension in the air. You can feel the tension.

12:34One of them will say, I'm a bit worried now because my brother's mate, Glenn, is probably listening to this, but fuck you, Glenn. Stop telling my brother what people say, what i say on the podcast you prick anyway i'm telling the story fuck you glenn um they'll start bubbling up a bit and and uh one of them will say i'll fucking knock you out and i that that that makes a switch go off in my head because the idea of my two brothers having to fight with each other makes me so angry that i'll want to beat them up yeah yeah so i'll just froth we call it frothing in my house you i'll froth at both of them and it won't happen um but yeah yeah so no I wouldn't I'd never do it so take me back so the arm wrestling brother yeah so yeah he won his he doesn't like football at all at all then the next one number four he supports Chelsea although when they're playing shit he kind of stops supporting them so there's no influence nothing and then the youngest one supports Man United well why'd you choose Spurs then no idea I think I saw them on the news maybe they won the FA Cup I was about seven eight I think I saw them win the FA Cup I saw it on the news they'd won the FA Cup and I thought oh they're cool i like them and then the thing is you don't choose your club right i know this is like it something will happen like i think felonious filth has spoken about this in terms of it was glenn odell and and the white shirt and and a lot of people have i think it was and a lot of people speak about that is because how glorious our kit looked in and you can imagine like on an old tv where the white would just punch through because there wasn't a kind of density of color and a very little variation and contrast was really harsh so you just have these you know beautiful white shapes doing amazing things anyway um so yeah that's why you you're now having to contemplate yeah yeah and that's it it's come to this weekend and it's everybody knows me for being this spurs fan like my little fucking leather binder that i carry around at work when i'm telling somebody off or something it's got a little spurs badge in the corner like and then you have to go out into the world like we all do like everyone listening to this and you've got to live this experience of being the worst team in the league and possibly potentially going down it's really difficult and it's just come to this week i'm thinking and i think there's a little it sounds really weird but there's a little part of me that thinks you know maybe if i don't watch it we might win and then i can start watching it again i don't know i just that's what that's where it's come from is about you not watching it you got to you got to watch it I don't like you're not the first person we've spoken to or I've spoken to this year who've decided just to sort of remove the misery I can't I don't like I say you know the start of this conversation I don't feel any great enthusiasm to sit down and watch Spurs in fact I kind of feel like every game right now like I felt about a North London derby if there was a North London derby this weekend it's a similar feeling the feeling of foreboding what might come what negative impacts might i have to deal with and then obviously with every game the kind of that the magnitude of it is it's bigger and bigger yeah it's it's uh exaggerated every single time and you know we have this is this is it we have to win this game if we don't win it it feels like it's too far so that isn't pleasant no and we didn't ask for this um let's do uh let's do the the players that we respect go on then uh i'm just trying to find it this episode is brought to you by state farm you know those friends who support your preference for podcasts over music on road trips that's the energy state farm brings to insurance with over 19 000 local agents they help you find the coverage that fits your needs so you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride.

16:29Download the State Farm app or go online at statefarm.com. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Right, so the post goes like this. He posted this two days ago. A little over a month ago after the film game, I posted a survey in this sub asking, let's assume the worst happens and we get relegated. When you look back at the season in years to come, who will be your players, the players that retain some respect because they held up their end of the bargain. It's looking increasingly likely that we'll get relegated. So let's take a look at who the players are that we still respect, given I assume right now we respect none of them.

17:07These results are based on 64 individual nominations and 649 results across those nominations. The only players who have broad respect... Okay, hold on. I don't want to reveal this thus far.

17:23Okay, so just quickly, who do you respect of these players? I mean, I feel like your answer is going to be, I don't respect fucking none of them. Yeah, I have very little respect for any of them, really. I mean, to be honest, the results showed little respect for a lot of them. Yeah, it's hard, isn't it? I suppose it's harder to... How much do you blame the players and how much do you blame the owners and the decision-making by Vengertesham and Langer and the decision to remove Lange, Lange, Lange, remove Levy, you know, without sort of having a plan in place? And how much do you blame Frank? How much do you blame Tudor?

18:08Where does your, instinctively, where do you go to in terms of blame? Enoch and Lewis family, I think, for me, by far and away, number one, just because they're ultimately in charge and they're ultimately responsible for hiring, firing of coaches, transfer budgets, the hiring of Johan Langer, the promotion of Johan Langer. Yeah, just I think they're ultimately, they got rid of Daniel Levy, who's absolutely holds some responsibility, but is a experienced operator of a football club. and do you think do you think daniel levy would have made do you think we'll be in this situation and that there's a lot of revisionism going into this i'm asking the question i don't know what the answer is do you think that that we'd be in the same position if he was chairman right now no i i think we'd be why is that i think he would have so weird considering his reputation but i think we'd have spent in january i think yeah i think he'd have let that window go i don't think he'd have let that happen or get loans in probably the thomas something i i i thought that thomas frank would have been sacked sooner yes and i but the question i was asked this question as well what we would have done in january i'm not sure daniel levy would have done much more apart from demanding we get some loan players in which could have helped us i think you said at the time and i and i'm almost certain i keep i push back on this was that i i have to admit that at the time i thought i don't disagree with langer's position if the players are not available we don't overspend or spend money that we have to then account for later down the line which affects future spending problems you know our ability to spend rather and i just thought we're not in trouble so why spunk the money in hindsight that's horrible you don't risk the risk the risk isn't it's clearly not worth it But then no one would have imagined we would be anywhere near this position.

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22:19I think the slight difference was we were so far clear last year. Like we were really... Yeah, it's like 26 points between the... Yeah, we ended up finishing 17th, but we were never in any danger of going down. I think we were safe, you know, with four or five games to go. Like it was absolutely fine, even though we couldn't win a game. But yeah, the trajectory was there with us. And I just think that in general, I just remember thinking in general, we need to buy players. And I remember someone saying after we sold Johnson, we're a Kudus injury away from crisis. And then the next week he got injured and we've never replaced him.

22:59And I think that was probably the most criminal thing because I think what Tudor did so badly was play square pegs in round holes consistently. And any coach that come in did not have a round peg for the round hole on that right wing. we've been playing all sorts of people playing Connor Gallagher there and we've been playing all sorts of people there people that just don't fit and I think it was a criminal decision in hindsight to sell Johnson just because he's a proven Premier League goalscorer and we had no cover for him I think it was a bad decision in the end and I think for morale I think it was probably a bad decision as well for the guy that scored you know scored the win in the Europa League final we've lost Sonny Madison's injured we lost a lot of big personality and lost a lot of characters in that team.

23:45And now it's just a load of kids and a load of strangers. And I think that's the thing that's really, really leaps out about this team is the lack of leadership and the lack of personality. You know, we saw Romero and Van der Ven being our leaders this season. I think they're probably the two players I respect the least. Who did you say? Romero and Van der Ven. They're playing for themselves and have been for some time. Okay, so this is based on mentions and upvotes. So the player that most respected by the Tottenham Hotspur fan base as per this, according to the 649 votes that took place in the 64 individuals nominations.

24:24Archie Gray, number one. Yep. Fine. Yep. 244 votes. Richarlison, two. Yep. 242 votes. That was before Liverpool. Wow. Okay. Which is crazy. Mattis Tell, 57. Yeah. Okay. Xavi Simmonds got 20. Yeah. Danso, 17. Lucas Beraval, 16. Mohamed Koulos, 13. I guess it's not his fault. Yeah. Benton Kaur, 13. Van der Ben, 11 votes. Okay. Odebeer, 7. Porro, a doggy. Ben Davies, Sosa, and Vakari. And yeah, just got votes as well. Right. These are the least... I mean, look, it doesn't matter how you get into this reasoning. These are the most disrespected players because they received no mentions and no upvotes.

25:18Nice. Vicario, Dragasen, Paulina, Basuma, James Madison, who hasn't even been fit. Wow. Not his fault. Christian Romero, Solanke, Kulusevsky, again, unfair. Connor Gallagher, that's damning. Jed Spence, nothing. Papsar, Kinski, Mawani, and Brandon Austin. I mean the standing out the players that stand out there are the ones that played Paulina Romero Solanke yeah Conor Gallagher Jess Benz Papsar and Mouani that is that is damning I don't know of any of those players do you feel it's any of it's harsh of those players that got received none I thought Paulina I think Paulina is harsh obviously Kulusevsky is harsh and Madison is harsh there's absolutely nothing either of them can do about it.

26:08Dragerson came back from an ACL and was thrown into the team, had to play because there was no, there was, everybody was injured and also Romero was suspended and he had to play, but it was really obvious that he was just not up to speed at all. Like he shouldn't have been playing Premier League football. He probably should have just been playing in the reserves for a couple of months. But he was like, no, everybody's injured, you've got to play. And he was totally out of his depth. I think zero for Christian Romero is surprising. Cup captain, just signed a new contract. Yeah. We've always had this love-hope thing with him, haven't we?

26:47We've never quite fell in love with him as a player. It's always been on this. There's always been this thing. We've loved him at points. At points, we've loved him. And then, but there's always just been this thing of, you don't love us back. Yeah. It doesn't feel like he does actually. Was it you and I talked? Did you bring to light the World Cup thing? Yes, on five statements, yes. Straight away you picked up on that, did you? Yeah, he started crying. I was like, yeah, World Cup. Because that's the mindset players are in now. And that's the other worrying thing is we need every player to really scrap right now, but they're thinking about World Cup.

27:29It's okay for them to be upset about the World Cup.

27:37that's a competition you won't be playing in Romero because of this injury. Millions of Spurs fans are not going to be watching Spurs play in the competition that they want to play in in the Premier League.

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28:44Now, a teenager who calls them vintage will offer that same small fortune back. Sell them easily on Depop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. Who knew your questionable music taste would be a money-making machine? Your style can make you cash. start selling on Depop where taste recognizes taste none of us are crying about it we like it was strange like I I don't want to be too critical because you understand his dream of playing part of that is in Central America in Mexico and the rest is it's his it's his side of the planet and Argentina probably have a good chance of winning it I don't know so I understand why he's upset but he was like almost shaking hands with players when he got that red card against Manchester United and that that is it that's part of it like and you're you're at the word afterwards how many and I remember saying a couple of pods ago how many times have you seen a player come out for any club any club get a red card and cost their club their team the game and come out afterwards and do stand in front of Jeff Stelling or even in front of you know in the mix zone or whatever and go do you know oh, I let the team down today.

29:58You know, I shouldn't have got sent off. Because that was a stupid shit red card. It wasn't like it was a couple of soft yellows or it was harsh or whatever. He didn't say a fucking word afterwards. And we didn't hear from him for ages. Nothing on social media, nothing. And I think when that happened and he missed four games and he never said a word about it, that's not club captain material because he was happy enough to pipe up when he wasn't happy with what was happening at Spurs. and he was right too. I think a lot of us agreed with him but that Man United game was his fault. He got sent off and he cost us that game.

30:33He was alone. You could argue if he's that good the four games or the four games that he missed after that. So not only did he fuck that game Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. He missed the next four because he'd been sent off before and yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's hard when you're annoyed with something. Like, the way he challenges it's like that yellow card that he got against who was it? Sunderland the other day. Yeah, I just thought while it probably wasn't the yellow card and was harsh and the referee was shit and Broby should have been sent off and would have been getting pelters this week by defending Broby, but I would 100 % in that game swap R2 number nines without question because he actually fucking done something.

31:16I know he pushed Romero, he clattered Romero again, but he put himself he was important for what Sunderland were trying to do we've got to forget all this oh he's like this is this isn't we've got to stop being so fucking soft and realise we've got to be this is how you sometimes win football matches is get stuck in con the ref whatever it might be and when I say get stuck in in a way that isn't going to get you fucking sent off anyway yeah I just thought that challenge that he made and his legs wrapped around the guy's you know, ankles or calves. It wasn't a horrendous challenge, but it was through the back.

31:57It's always going to be given as a foul. He's not refereeing. I will say he's refereeing very harshly. I think he's refereeing. I know. I think I'm in the minority here. No, and I think your point's right. I think he, and it's not right, but I think when Romero is at his best is when he does stay on his feet, when he intercepts, when he's quick and reacts quickly and gets in and intercepts. For me, when I think of Christian Romero and at his best, that's how he is. He's not smashing into people. Romero kind of reminds me of the guy next to the captain. Like you think of some of the best captains like company and Van Dijk.

32:40Like you can expect to regret. Like it's almost like with Spurs, with Van der Ven and Romero, that it's kind of reversed. It's like Van Leven to some degree is the call ahead, the calmer guy. And Romero is the one that's likely to leave a foot in or be overly aggressive. Because we've seen it over and over again. It's almost like he needs influence to help him calm down. I don't know. Sonny. Sonny was a big loss as a captain, as a personality. Because he wasn't a screamer and a shouter, but they respected him because he's a lovely guy and he's a club legend. and I think to lose I think you don't want to let Sonny down because he's such a lovely guy and you love him so much so you don't want to let that guy down you always saw him on the pitch calming Romero down and turning him to Simmer down they don't want to let that guy down whereas Romero he's not a lead by example type because his example is a bad one he sets a bad example so then by extension him as a leader as an example to the rest of the team it's not good it's not good in the summer it made sense for him to be captain because he lifted the Europa League and all that but in hindsight it was a poor choice it was a poor choice it needed I don't know who else you'd choose though it would have been Madison if he was fit I'd imagine yeah but yeah not for the first time and again I don't want to be too critical of Romero I appreciate he's injured but he's just not available for us and if you're not available what use is there like he's had 12 months are being consistently, you know, pickable.

34:16And actually, even towards the latter part of last season, his games were managed because of the Europa League. You know, after Christmas, he's missed nine, ten games. Ten games. League games. Not anything else. Ten league games through injury or suspension. We can't, you just cannot succeed with that level of, unavailability and it's been constant at periods so that that was didn't make any sense it's been constant through his career at spurs while there have been periods where he has been available for selection generally he's not been like two years it was it two years ago we worked out that he'd missed as many games as he as he's played it yeah it was really bad it was really i haven't looked at those numbers for a while because it doesn't suit my agenda now but um yeah those numbers are really bad he'd missed 80 odd games or something in his time it's a criminal it injured or or suspended and regardless it's not good if you're never available for someone that you rely that the team relies on even before he was captain you know for us to pay such big money for him and then he's the fucker was just never available it was yeah it was really bad but i will say i do think he is i think he had a really good spell particularly under conte and then under ange where he wasn't getting booked much and he was playing well and he was available.

35:44But it does feel this season, I do think he has been refereed quite harshly. I've seen a couple of times he's been booked. I'm like, what the fuck are you booking him for? And I do think Spurs is a club and I know it's tin hat. I think we're refereed really harshly. And the last time I was on, I was throwing numbers around. I haven't looked at those numbers since, but we get booked. I did actually, I did look the other day. We've got the highest average bookings in the league. We get the highest number of bookings every game. And not a single penalty this year either. And not a single penalty.

36:13We are refereed harshly. We are refereed. We are held to a different standard to other clubs. And I think our confidence is so low right now. And that's a big, and the club's a mess. And it's a shambles. But referee decisions matter. Getting a penalty last week, we'd have got the penalty last week and go 1-0 up. I do think if we go 1-0 up in a game, we can see a game out. It would be massive for the club. We just got to get the decisions. It's got to get into their heads. Like if all that, like the world's against us, that then use it, utilise it, use a way to motivate these players because they're good players.

36:42Anyway, so I don't know if you were across this, Cal, but there was potential plans to meet the players' bus again. Nice. But it's not happening. Oh. So this is the statement. It says, contrary to what we had hoped for, the players will not be arriving on the team coach for the game against Brighton. We have been in discussions with the club and this is purely a decision taken by Roberto De Zerbi. The players will arrive earlier due to his reasoning. He and the club have both apologised for the coach meet not happening. Disappointing as we had hoped that we can welcome them again in the thousands as we try to give them a lift.

37:22Yeah, you can imagine what it said. But I think they said the...