S15E89 - Bergvall, Big Decisions and Bigger Ambitions

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1:43it's the fighting cock it's the fighting

1:51it's the fighting cock a camel no Rick why don't you be an adult and buy yourself a proper vape rather than what you see a 15 year old kid walking down the street no this is too big for one of those no kids wearing that's an adult That's a fucking, that's a man's vape, that is. What, as in like a little tiny lost Mary? No. Is that the fucking manly one, is it? No, once you fill up the, you know. Ah, the juices and all that. Yeah, the juices, I don't know. Just, you don't do it outside, do you? Yeah, I do, yeah. What, holding that massive thing? Yeah, yeah. Secret, I hold it down my sleeve. Silly boy, Ricky.

2:37Apologies for no podcast last week. I don't know why we didn't. We just ran out of time. And then on one day, everybody just ignored me. Didn't even say they could do it, couldn't do it. Just nothing. Completely aired. I think it's just where, as my respect in this group has fallen so far that people don't even reply to me anymore. You were fucking busy, you cunt. You were here, there, everywhere. In and out of London, like a bloody blue bottle you are. Don't fucking put it on us. I had the worst night of my life. I had the worst worst night of my life after that England game please do go on please so England played who the fuck did they play who we beat Croatia we beat them 4-2 right I was so happy I was buzzing I'd had a few beers I was working for the game Amazing Geysers over at Mixer and I was working for the game and so and by working I was drinking beer and watching football in a pub it was it was barely work and then every now and then we had to talk about something.

3:42But I was buzzing. Everyone was buzzing. The whole nation was buzzing. We just absolutely slapped Croatia. 4-2, but it could have been eight. It could have been nine. Ten minutes. Ten minutes after halftime. Cal's here, by the way. Hello, Cal. Hello, mate. Ten minutes after halftime, we were battering them. I don't remember a performance like that from England since Germany. 5-1, probably. Emil Hesky. Yeah. I can't think of a more accomplished performance than that. And it was against Croatia, who we've had massive issues with previously. They've dumped us out of World Cups and they've stopped us from getting into World Cups.

4:19It's just been a problem for us for a long while, Croatia. So I was buzzing and I'd booked a hotel because obviously I can't get back. Last train was something like, I don't know, half 12 or something. I just couldn't get back by the time we finished. so i get to uh get to the hotel i've booked the only hotel i could afford by the way was one in like white chapel which is about a good 45 minutes walk away but it was nice it was a nice evening yeah of course it was london around midnight central london there's something special about it it's beautiful um you know walking over the thames it's just it's just nice but it was bloody and I was sweating bollocks.

4:57Anyway, I walked the 45 minutes to my hotel. Now, bear in mind, I'd been messaging my hotel all day saying, I'm not going to be there. I'm kind of checking at like half past 12 because I'm only getting there. Not received it. Left a voice note, not received it. Well, they did receive it, but they didn't reply. So I was like, that's not uncommon. They're busy it's fine i got there and what it was it was a row of terraced houses like a street yeah and i was like this is weird where's the hotel where's how can a hotel fit on the street but this is the street i get to number 20 and it's a derelict house it's being renovated the number 20 had been flipped off the front of the door because you see the remnants of what it used to be where it said 20 and there's a man filling in holes in a wall inside the front room and i thought this is odd but i'm tired maybe they're just renovating the front of a hotel or this house that has rooms in it so he was working at like half 12 at night three of them were fucking hell boy i'm not on the window and he's looked around he just sort of rolls his eyes and i'm like what he's carrying on here he opens the door and he goes did you book this as a hotel I went yeah I did on booking.com I did book this as a hotel he went you're the third man man he said look you're the third man who's come here tonight there ain't no hotel here there hasn't been we bought this ages ago fucking hell what's going on and they went there's nothing we can do and I was like there's no beds in this house at all no no look at it there's nowhere for you to go so suddenly I'm hit with this realisation that I've got to walk into the Whitechapel at night which is fine I can handle myself no one's going to fucking fuck with me except they absolutely could do yeah right so i wasn't really up for just walking around the street um i am going from hotel to hotel to hotel asking if there's any reservations none i'm walking around for about an hour i'm calling i've been on google maps i've been on back on booking.com everything everything because of england everything is booked up and i speak to this one woman and she went i've got something i've got something for you and i was like because you could hear the desperation.

7:12I'm nearly in tears because I'm like, my first train doesn't arrive until 5.23. I'm either walking the streets of London like a fucking hobo, a 44-year-old semi-successful man in this position. Yeah. And she went, the room's 650 quid. Oh, God. No, I said I'm semi-successful. There's no fucking way I'm paying 650 quid to sit in a room for four hours. I'll walk the fucking streets. I am the streets. This is my town. This is where I grew up. Except I didn't really want to walk the streets. So I got in a cab and I thought Paddington's going to be superb because Paddington has more hotels per square meter than anywhere else on the planet.

7:55I just made that up. I'm not sure if it's true, but there are lots of hotels. Every single one, no vacancies, no vacancies, no vacancies. There is none. I resigned myself at about two o 'clock in the morning that I was going to have to sit in Paddington Hotel and wait. It was about half one, so I was going to have to wait four hours for my train. My phone was on 30%. I needed my phone alive so that I could scan my ticket in and get that first train. So I sat. In Paddington Station? Yeah, there's about 10 of us. 10 people have had similar situations. Who's it? I reckon at least one of them went to the hotel I went to, but we gave each other for a knowing look.

8:39um and i sat and i for one moment i thought oh maybe i'll lie down that'll be better yeah security man come out nowhere everyone's sitting up no lying down what are you loitering or do you have a train and i'm like mate it's five what do you think i'm doing look at me i'm waiting for a fucking train at 5 30 wanker you can't lie down so no one was allowed to lie down we're all sit upright and a man a crackhead had a pair of trainers in a smashed up box tried to sell me his pair of trainers nice Nike I think they were Air Force Ones nice he'd found and the box didn't match it was like an ADS box it was I was like please get away from me and then I went to put my ticket in and do you know what it said it said this ticket is not valid for this train so i was buying a new train ticket for 113 pounds that was valid oh god and then i had an hour and 10 train journey and then a 40 minute drive just to get into my bed at 7 30 and i tell you what mate i have never slept so well in all my life you're like mary and joseph just going from like place to place any room at the end just stay stables yeah just give me the stables I'll sleep there I reckon we've been linked to more players than hotels I've visited it's insane that evening it's insane Cal what make sense of it all what is going on every single day is a new one what do you want Gakpo yeah Gakpo yeah Zerbi demands him Zerbi demands him that seems to be the common theme doesn't it it seems to be the common theme is that I think you said last night the end of every tweet or posting or article ends with, De Zerbi insists on him.

10:34De Zerbi wants him. De Zerbi wants this guy. I think that the common theme is they're all Premier League players that either have played in the Premier League or are currently playing in the Premier League. And that seems to be the pattern is that they're players that are established in the Premier League and have played them before. We're not trying to pluck some random geezer from Hamburg or whatever. Like they're all players that have played in the league before. And a couple of weeks ago when we recorded, I started yammering on about not being in Europe and how important that was like I normally do.

11:06And I said, you know, we can really attack the league. I actually think the ownership are trying to attack the league. I think they're trying to win the league next year, genuinely. Is it maybe that they've... I mean, look, let's not be... I mean, could we? Let's not. Let's think about it and be serious about it for a second. There is a bit of a... There's room to attack, is what I'd say. There's a lot of transitions, a lot of teams in a state of... Flux. Flux, flux. That's what I was looking for. Nice, nice. Isn't there? It's only one team that we hate to name. We've kind of settled. And they're going, they have to go again.

11:54second year all their players at the World Cup yeah doing it again a second season it's not the Champions League it's winning the league again PGMO fucking hell PGMO they'll be wise to their rugby tactics and what they're doing the rules have changed the rules have changed haven't they you can get fouled before a corner is taken now good all that wrestling and all that I think that is for the World Cup I don't know if it extends to the Premier League hopefully it does yeah sorry you're right Rick yeah PG MOL as well yeah yeah yeah all be on their case Leicester did finish 17th when they won the league do you think this is why people hate us because of just like constant enthusiasm we've always been saying next year's our year I've said that at least 15 ,000 times in my life what else do you want me to say like i support the football team and i want us to do well you do not want to hear me go do you know what i'd be you know top eight really want eighth place that's what they want that is what they want us that's what other fans want to want to hear know your place no i don't know my place never know my place i know my place number one yeah exactly we've never been number one nobody know that is our place maybe it's that maybe trying to figure out why everyone hates us maybe it's that one yeah it's like what you said about us what you said said to james on jeff and about being too big to go down it's like you know no one is but then you said but really we were really well yeah it did turn out that we were too big to go down it was funny um no i yeah i think there is an opportunity i think look we've still been linked to these players we haven't bought them Van Hecker obviously is through the door now but it feels like this is real it no longer feels like hot air it feels like they are backing like Ornstein reporting solid information on players that we're going for that we wouldn't have been able to like Tonali situation Ricky but apparently our offer is £45 ,000 a week more than the nearest one to him what is he being what's he being paid at the moment he must be on about £100 right okay we're going to make him what£200 £245 it can't be£245 that's ridiculous it bloody can Rick shit not in this new Tottenham this one the Lewis family nutters they are they're mental trying to buy all the players 245 a week i was like i well i remember that that's that thing that that that bit where simon and jordan sort of gleefully exposed the fact that he was having a conversation with daniel levy and he was texting him during the show yeah and the content to that text was that van hecker you know spurs were having their pants pulled down for van hecker 52 million.

15:09That doesn't make any sense. He's got a year left on his contract. 52 million? You've had your pants pulled down there, boys. What does that tell you? You know what it tells us. If he was here, we wouldn't have been in the conversation for him. We wouldn't have done that. 40 million and that's your lot. We ain't going to go any higher. Then goes to the manager. I tried to get him. Couldn't do it. I know you really wanted him. I know he was like one of the key parts of your defensive rebuild to possibly replace Romero. You know, we tried. We tried our best, but we just couldn't do it. We couldn't meet on the prices.

15:45We're going to have to go for someone else. What about bringing the boy Vuscovic in? Just start him. You never know. Yeah, he doesn't fit. No, but he doesn't fit. Van Hecker's perfect for my system. If you want to be successful, I know, but we've got Vuscovic. That's what it would have been. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what we... There was no chance that Van Hecker... Do you agree with this, Cal? There's no chance that Van Hecker would be a Tottenham Hotspur player now. It might have been at the end of the summer, but he wouldn't be one right now if Van Levy was sort of... Yeah, we might have got a better deal for him, maybe.

16:17Like, we got Bissouma from Brighton with one year left, very, very similar circumstances. And that was about 25-30, wasn't it, for Bissouma. But for Van Hecker, yeah, it would have dragged on. It would have dragged on for ages. And yeah, we might have got a better deal. oh, Daniel Levy might have been able to wank on a better deal. But let's just get the player through the door. The manager wants him. That's it. We do owe the manager a lot. He did a fantastic job and kept us in the league. And so many managers out there probably didn't want their name to be attached to relegated Tottenham Hotspur, one of the biggest clubs in England.

16:52So he's taken the job. That was a brave act on its own to take the job and then to keep us in the league. He has earned the right to kind of get the players he wants. yeah I think it would have been it would have dragged on I do think that Simon Jordan thing I think that was Simon Jordan's opinion not Daniel Levy's I can't really see Daniel Levy using the expression pants pulled down it just felt just watching the video I saw the video on Twitter and I was like that's your opinion that's not Daniel Levy's opinion Daniel Levy might have said something about oh that's the highest fee for someone with a year left but I think that's but we you know the difference is the difference is what right Cal right it is like okay yeah correct it was the most i think it's the third most paid for a player we've um but we needed him we don't need the additional 15 million installment payments saved we needed van hecker because the zerby needs him the relationship the environment which the zerby works in has to be good so therefore if he if he requires van hecker to play the brand of football you want to plan it, which by the way is, if it works, and I have every faith that it will, some of the best football in the league.

18:02The exact opposite way of the way Arsenal went about doing things. There'll be one club in North London playing good football next year and it won't be Arsenal. Yeah. Right? So that relationship with the board and what they promised him when he came in and as you say, Cal saved us, which is a brave job and no doubt he was handsomely rewarded for it so he should be that maintaining that relationship with a tempestuous character but a genius with it if you believe what he's that the players have played under him previously have said maintain that relationship is important so for the sake of saving like what what if it was 30 million for van hecker you're saving 20 million pound over the duration of his contract that's the saving.

18:47It's maintaining a good relationship and giving the manager exactly what he wants, these tools that he's requested for the sake of 20 million pound over five years. I'm glad he's gone. I'm glad he's gone. Hello there. Sorry to interrupt the pod, but I've got some important information from you, for you even, from our sponsor, Saley. So don't get caught out without data this summer if you're going on holiday. Saley is the easy map from creators of NordVPN, giving you instant affordable mobile internet in over 190 countries. No waiting at airport kiosks, no sketchy sim sellers, just download once, choose a plan, and you're connected the moment you land.

19:31Whether you're city hopping in Europe or exploring Asia, Saley has got you covered with regional and global plans. Plus, Enjoy added privacy and web protection built right in. Get 15 % off your eSem today. Download the Saley app and use the code TheFightingCock at checkout. Stay connected wherever you go. Back with the show. I think the fallout of, I think it was supposed to be this kind of like a mic drop bit where everyone would then bundle in and go, Tottenham have had their pants pulled down. He only had a year left on his contract, only a Brighton player, whatever. but the discourse online was like this is exactly why we got rid of him this is exactly why holding up the transfer dragging it out all summer the player is supposed to come in and learn kind of the you know formations the way that he wants deserve he wants him to play and to meet his teammates and build that camaraderie and kind of all of that stuff um would have just been thrown out the window and for what for haggling over a few mil here and there or maybe not even getting the deal done or maybe even delaying it until January where we can get him for cheaper and we've already tapped him up and got a pre-contract done and stuff like that no we want it now we need it now this is this is the way we're operating so I think yeah Simon Jordan being Levy's bit of PR didn't quite work for them did it too giddy that's the problem we came across as giddy and smug Simon Jordan I like I like him I know like listening to him talk.

21:05Yeah, same. I think he's good. He's best thing about Talksport. He's a good talker, but he, his best Premier League finish as chairman of Crystal Palace was 18th. He has absolutely no insight into running a club of this size. None. He cannot offer any insight about talking about a club the size of Tottenham Hotspur. 18th. They never even stayed in the fucking league under him. Like, he cannot talk about it. He cannot talk with any sort of authority about running a club our size. At all. And, he's Daniel Levy's mate he was on record last year saying he wanted us to go down he said i think west ham are going to go down but i really want to go down so he has an agenda and that's fine he's doing a job he's on talk sport for fuck's sake like it's it's it's it's the job right it's it's what what you kind of have to do get calls get clicks whatever that's that's media now but yeah he's not an authority and talking about a club of this size he's just not no correct correct um so yeah we we got it done and the sensible transfers of senesi as well you can't even forgotten that that's happened now robert and robertson because we've been linked with so many players and every single one deserves is demanded this how many players has he demanded what's he saying ricky what's going on at the club they've had a meeting he's gonna demand this i've demand him i demand him i demand him and then it's over and they're like fucking hell did you write all that down did you get what i said you know like a band and they've got a rider demand list he's just got this list he's just sharing it around with everyone fucking loads of players go and get me them now otherwise i'm off it is it's like fucking sorting out a dressing room for prince to go on a fucking talk show it's like i want i want water and i want it to be 19 degrees celsius grade not not a bit over like it's It's a bit like that, isn't it?

22:53I want a jug of camel cum. Immediately. Immediately. Yeah. But some people said, sorry, some people were saying, I think you can look at it in another way, is that we've got Sanessi, Andy Robertson, and Van Hecker for 52 million. Yep. Yeah. We've outlaid 52 million and we've got three players. All the money went on one player. But I kind of get that way of thinking as well. We've got three very good players. Yeah, we have three very good players. We have, I mean, there's a reason why Sanessi and there's a reason why Robertson have come to Tottenham, almost without challenge. And that is they're going to be paid well.

23:37And we're finally moving in the direction and operating in like a football club that pays their players according to their value and skill level, how you'd hope. but more than anything we're just operating like other clubs normally do of our size that we haven't done before we've got we've got wiggle room of something like i think i'm gonna say 22 to 23 percent amount of the our wage to actually no it's up to 85 because we're not in europe so there's loads of room for us we should be at the very max of that we should be operating 85 % of the squad turnover of revenue. That's what every other club is.

24:22Unless they're in Europe, then they're off rating at 70 % because that's what your AFA's rules are when you're in European competition. That's where you should be. You should be maximizing every penny to build the squad, as good a squad as possible. And that's something we never did. It was almost like heralded as an incredible thing for Daniel Levy that we were able to compete with some of the other big boys or the big six or whatever you like, despite only spending 40 % of our turnover on wages. Like that was something to be heralded. That was incredible. Well done. What a businessman. Fair enough.

24:57Brilliant. Look at us. We can't compete. Players won't talk to us. Agents won't talk to us because they know that they'll get an offer that's 40 % lower than what they will get at another football club. You know, Eze was about football for Arsenal. but it would have also been about the money. And so, yeah, I think players are willing to come to us now. Zinesik wasn't even like, he was legitimately, Ricky knows because you had him in your fantasy football. Yeah, and Van Hecker. Both of them. He knows that we've brought one of the best players in the league, best defenders in the league, certainly in top five, top six on the left-hand side.

25:42they've come because we're starting to operate like a big club i think unless it's all a big charade and it's all bullshit which could well be true as well imagine buying your kid a toy only to find the batteries aren't included or buying furniture but missing the tools to build it frustrating right now imagine the exact same feeling but you're paying way more that is what buying business software usually feels like. Fragmented, disconnected, and incredibly expensive. Odoo completely changes that. Odoo is a complete, fully integrated business suite where all your apps actually talk to each other.

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27:32There's no place like Chrome. Check responses setup required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus i don't know it feels like i mean like we we are being like you said we're being linked with everyone at the moment fucking tonali gacpo uh someone even said wharton but i don't really you know people are just chucking names everywhere anywhere and everywhere at the moment uh fernandez i kind of like it's good to be linked and it's good that journalists, the respected journalists are, have got our names in the conversation and that these talks seem to be progressing. But until I see them with the scarf, I can't, I just can't help myself.

28:18Yeah. Yeah. It was about quarter to one, two nights ago. Wife is asleep next to me in the pitch black. I'm watching highlight reels of Tonali. I can't be doing that. You can't, you know. It's so good. He's so good. I didn't, I've been watching you, I know YouTube, you know, it tells you a lot, Cal, but are you, how, do you want Tonali? Are you brought in on that transfer? Now I am. In the beginning, I was like, I've got this obsession with Adam Warton. I kind of really want Adam Warton at Tottenham, I just think. Yeah, but you'd have to have, like Tonali isn't going to do what Adam Warton does.

29:00No. No, but yeah, like Rick, you watch a YouTube compilation or two and that's it. Give me this guy. The AC Milan one as well. When he was AC Milan, he was fucking disgusting. Oh, I've not seen that one. I watched it 22, 23 season. Fucking hell. Fuck, you're a fuck, fuck. Oh, oh, oh. Oh, oh, oh. Oh, that's so good, Rick. Fucking yes. I forget that I'm in a shared office. what must I hear yeah I'd like I'd like to yeah that'd be nice that would be nice and like look if we if Adam Warton is beyond us we can't have everybody and actually we haven't got enough cash in the bank you would you would assume to get all these transfers done if you want to spend 300 million worth of transfers we need a bit more cash which apparently the ITK says is coming and that the Lewis family are going to put in another 100 million around which would give us liquidity to buy these players.

30:09Now you might think where's 100 well so if we have, there's a conservative estimate that we have 60 million pound as per Ben Wyatt, listen to the latest Lab episode but there's a conservative estimate that we have around 60 million pound in cash in our bank account, if you add another 100 million pound that's cash cash money that means we can go about spending around 300 million pound worth it might be more than that it might be it might be less than that but what you need the cash for is down payments the payment up front which has to be paid in full so if it's van hecker you might it might be 20 million pound paid up front and the rest of it through the duration of his contract so you don't need it's not like we have we have 150 million therefore we can only buy 150 million pound worth of player.

30:58It doesn't work like that. You can get a lot more out of that money. Just have to pay the lot up front and assign a non-fee to the player. Anyway, if it isn't Adam Wharton and he's out of our price range, maybe, or he wants to go to Liverpool, whatever it might be, then Fernandes has been linked up. He can play there. He can play in the eight. He can play in the six. He can play in the 10. He can play everywhere. what are your guys thoughts on like 85 mil for Fernandes and possibly 90 mil for Tonali like that is if you bought two players do you think it's one or the other or it doesn't sound like one or the other it doesn't sound like one or the other that's the thing and they're near 100 mil players both of them De Zerbis demanded both of them yeah demanded and I think the Lucas Beraval news I think these his agent knows that we're going for both and he's thinking all right I need to play football and that's it yeah I want to for both Cal I want to talk about in well directly after this but first um Rick the um yes yes they're two effectively 100 million pound players but in real terms they're not to us right yeah so they may be we may have to spend 60 million to get both in up front.

32:20Yeah. So, but yeah, it seems like that. It feels like a lot. It does. Even 90 million feels like a lot for Tonali, but if you look at his value on transfer marks, which is pretty much exactly where you need to be, he's rated as 80 million on there. Oh, okay. Euros though, euros. Right. Yeah, not, not, not pounds. But then you have to compensate. Sorry, I was just going to say, our midfield's been an issue. for a long time. It feels like at least three, four years our midfield has been a big problem. And we've tried, we've tried the young kids thing, we've tried the Paulina experience thing, the Hoi Bjerg, we've tried it and I think now it's just a case of let's get two proven Premier League players at the peak of their powers for massive money and sort out probably the most important area of the pitch.

33:11Bang. £150 million, £160 call it. Bang. Done. Premier League proven. One's 22, Fernandes is 22, Tenali's 26, I think. Fucking done. Most important area of the pitch, the biggest problem, you know, long-term problem we've had, and it's sorted. So, yeah, go for it. I would love to see our midfield with both those players in it. Two! Both of them! Both of them? Are you kidding me? Both of them! Three, if you only think. Fucking hell! Good Lord. I mean, that would be a statement. Yeah. I think people don't understand what a really good player Fernandes is. I think he's because, I think because he came from Southampton and he plays for West Ham and they got relegated and there's all these obvious things that you attach to him.

34:02He's mustered. The boy is absolutely mustered. Loves to receive the ball under pressure. Take, you know, find men, find teammates in the thirds. finding men he's great at finding men he contributes defensively he can keep possession in build up he's press resistant yeah he's class I'm less knowledgeable about him to be fair so yeah if I'm going to go for one or the other it'd be Tonali because I know more and I've watched him I would still rather go Wharton to Nali yeah yeah Wharton would be my number one choice out of everything but we don't seem to be being linked with him at all by anyone like good like any good journalist are not linking us with him at all which is a shame yeah

35:02we'll see I did see something but it wasn't it wasn't like a it wasn't like a horny horny I've got to stop calling him that I might interview him one day stop calling him horny horny

35:14yeah so the news has come out and this has come from some decent sources right I think Orstein actually said that he was frustrated with his lack of minutes in his preferred number 8 role and he believes that opportunities under Roberto De Zerbi will be too limited and several clubs have contacted Spurs fine you know how I feel about him you're not a fan are you I haven't been I've wanted to I felt like I felt like I've had to keep a lid on how I feel about him because everyone likes him so much yeah and I'm not just saying this now in hindsight I think I've been clear in the group quite a lot like I know he looks tidy I know know he's got blonde hair yeah i know he's young but what tell me what impact he's had in two years there was a point within those two years where we were talking on here and we're like he's got to start every game really he he had a real good purple patch and we were like we can't let this how good is this kid how good is he going to be really talking him up and i kind of feel like you know towards the end of last season and obviously you know we're in a relegation battle under frank it was shit under eagle it was shitter and then when dezerbi came in he it felt like he was more leaning on i'm gonna rely on senior established players the kids you know you you filled in you've done well but i'm gonna rely on these sets of players and then they would come on for bit parts in the second half or whatever um so i can understand that bergville that under ang and under frank he was playing a lot more he was getting loads of minutes under his belt under his belt a lot of premier league experience and it's kind of tapered off now and it's going to be really hard for especially a young kid that you're playing all these minutes and have been uh you're at the you know forefront of media and sweden everyone's talking about you and stuff like that and then all of a sudden you're not playing it's like what do you do at that point like you've been at this club you would guarantee you would when you signed you were told you're going to get minutes he's got minutes and now he's kind of like been sidelined to the bench.