S16E03 - Can Spurs Go From 17th to Title Contenders?

30:07Sean Kray:and make us all start thinking this is a possibility. That's why Liverpool, whenever Liverpool get a team that's almost anything like good enough. They've got no real stumbling blocks because the whole club as a whole are like, we're winners. We win Champions Leagues. We win titles and whatever. And it's just like, they just get there. And it's like, that's the bit that you've got to cut away from everyone is everyone who thinks it's ridiculous. Anyone who's too scared to say, well, we can't win the league. Football is money. Like if you're prepared, if you can generate the amount of money that you're going to spend it and you've got owners that are prepared to do it, these footballers that are out there in the world aren't looking at Tottenham and being like, oh no, I won't go there because it's a muggy team.

30:53Sean Kray:They're like, if you're spending the right amount of money, all of a sudden you're the only one they're going to go to because you're the only person that's actually going to spend that money. All these classic teams around the world, AC Milan, Inter Milan, Barcelona, we'd blast them out of the water for money. so it's like you're going to grab those players and put them in your club you've got a manager that wants to do it he's telling you right if we get this that and that and you actually give it to him there's no reason you can't do it just got to not be scared well well Bill Nick said didn't he it's better to fail aiming high than succeed aiming low and he said at this football club we set our sights very high so even in failure they'll have an echo of glory that is that's what Spurs about and that's why postacoglu was the right man with the wrong tactics his idea and and the way he understood the football club to operate he was spot on the match was perfect he just you know the most important thing is the football didn't work and yeah you know injury issues as well but that what what bill nicholson said there wasn't just about belief it wasn't about instilling the belief in the players it was massively a part of that but it was also a part and people might not notice but the 61 double winning team from bill nick was the most expensively constructed side in the league it you know the idea that money by success isn't a modern one it's not a new one we we spent huge amounts of money putting that team together and continued under bill nicholson to to suspend and break transfer records jimmy greaves most you know Almost everybody listening to this podcast will know that we signed him for£99 ,999, probably 99 pence to ensure that he wasn't the first£100 ,000 player.

32:46I don't know if it's in world football, but certainly in England. That's the level that we're doing. That's how we was operating. We used to be, in the 60s, the football club that moved the needle. And that's why we have such a rich legacy of a fan base. but people don't understand how big spurs are given how given the lack of success given the lack of success that there has been it's because of the 60s it's because of the cup wins in 74 and 84 it's because of those things but it was the the foundations that were built based on aggressively attacking the transfer market being ambitious and building the best possible football side that we can do and we not only won you know the the double but we won europe european trophies as well so that that has to be where we start and actually the reality to all this sean is that we're catching up we're spending this way to catch up this is how everyone's been spending in the big six it's only when spurs do it that sends people loopy like we're doing something crazy we should have been doing this for ages we spent lots and lots of money on very average footballers who are willing to accept low wages instead of buying quality players who want to be paid a decent or their equivalent uh to their quality in wages and what and the thing is at

34:08Sean Kray:the minute because we are a team as they keep reminding us finish 17th twice you're having to pay an extra premium to get these players come once you get into that stage where like man city are for example where they're there and they actually want to come to you that's when you start actually picking up bargains like harland coming for like sort of cut price money and and it's just like because all of a sudden you take advantage of the fact that players have run their contracts down they want to come to you you're prepared to do the do the wages and they come to you all of a sudden you're not paying above and beyond and you find your way up there but if you were saying me this season you know would you take fifth place with the guarantee of it being a Champions League, of course, I would snap your hand off for it because it's so important to do it and then allow us to spend again and again.

35:01Sean Kray:This season, you've almost got a hit at the league, not talking about winning it, but you've got a hit at getting as far up the league as you possibly can because you're not in Europe. After that, it's almost like you kind of will have a season where you tread water a little bit because you'll take on the extra games and the baggage that comes with it. But if we get into that top five, it's all about whether they are actually real with what they're saying. I don't think that Tonali, Fernandez and that are all coming to us unless they're being told what the project is. If it's just a case of like, yeah, you're going to come in and then they're not going to follow after you, but you've just got to be happy with the inflated wages that you've got.

35:47Sean Kray:Maybe that's the case. but I like to believe that this is what they are now. If you like what you're saying, they're talking about winning the league. They're not talking about winning it this season. They're talking about building a team and it probably would take, you look at Arsenal, for them to get to the stage where they won the league, it was a good five years of investment and investment and they got it. You're probably looking at something similar to actually land it. But with the way that these teams go in their cycles and they're turning around. Man City could do anything this year. Chelsea could be good, might not.

36:24Sean Kray:Who knows? There's a lot of surprise packages. Arsenal still haven't spent any money. So it's like, you could nick one if everything clicks and it works. And the thing is, I think we're talking about how Spurs have improved since last season because of the players we brought in. and I never thought to want I think and I would never admit this to an Arsenal fan and I'm sure a couple of those mugs probably they're weird they're weird I know a few Arsenal fans listen to this for some fucking reason pre-season podcast about Spurs I know some of you wankers are listening right but there was a time where they were picking up Declan Rice and Gokares last season I know Gokares actually did alright in the end was a good number nine and I was like we are never ever going to be in a situation where we can buy a player of Declan Rice's quality and who are willing and be willing to spend the money it takes to get that player in I'd never thought that we would be that way because we never were previously we've done it twice in Fernandes I think even convincing Andy Robinson to come you know when we finish 7th is impressive Van Hecker makes complete sense because of the Zerbi but but Tonali and Fernandes there's no reason why they should be at our football club unless we're operating in a way that attracts those kind of players and that's about money and ambition and they're hearing the right things and they'll be given the right things yeah and this is it and it we won't keep growing if the money doesn't keep coming in but if they're if they're telling us that it is and for the time being there you know they're putting their money where their mouth is how much more can you let's get behind it but how much more would convince you that they're 100 % on board?

38:16Because how much more can we spend here? Like we spent 237 million.

38:21Sean Kray:I'm talking over like several windows. They have to keep doing it. Because if they don't keep doing it, then they won't get there. If they're talking about winning the league and they think it's this, and then they'll coast and it will just find their way up there, then they don't know what they're talking about. It needs this. What we're doing now needs to happen. like this one this particular window would be like the record breaking one because there's so much that you need to do we've already done what 230 million and then it's like if we were to then also get Savinho who to be fair Savinho I'm not convinced but you know say if we got him and then Kruppi all of a sudden you're talking one of the most the highest spending windows of any team of all time ever.

39:13Sean Kray:So that would be crazy and you can't get that every year. But it would need to be a case of that we'd have that team do whatever we do this season and when it gets to next summer, you've got to be looking at another 180 million. Yeah, for sure. That's what you've got to do. So you've got to build the foundation. It feels like we're building the foundation. See, we're not talking about spending 400 million every window because no, it's not sustainable. It's not possible. But get to that point where you have a foundation, you've got a manager who's brought in and Deserby must be like, I mean, maybe he's in this situation where he's thinking, this is what I've always deserved, but he's never got it elsewhere.

39:52And there's a bit of a myth about him breaking up with football clubs and it exploding. It's never really happened. If you look back at his career, the only flashpoint that they really had was Brian, where his idea of what he wanted to build butted against the idea of Paul Barber and Tony Bloom's idea of Brighton. Now, they're never going to shift because why would they? What they've built is incredible. The best run football club in England, without a shadow of a doubt, in my opinion. So they're never going to shift. So he's just left. It's a difference of opinion. It's not a big...

40:28Sean Kray:His ambitions outgrew the ceiling of Brighton. Completely. He could have stayed there for 20 years and carried on doing it. But he's looking for something else. But then you look at this situation where he might be like, oh, you know, I can't believe my luck. I'm finding myself in this situation where I can now attack the top four and I've got all this backing. And I can actually design this whole team based on my own ideology, which not many managers do that. And that is because he came in when he did. Yeah, he agreed to. And we agreed to give him what he wanted. He bought the dip and it was just like, right.

41:09Sean Kray:He bought the dip. He bought the dip. That's right. Exactly what he did.

41:15He bought the dip. He did, mate. He did.

41:18Sean Kray:And it's like, and then now he's reaping the rewards. And so it is kind of like fair play to him. But he'll be just the same as everyone else, though. If we are moving like a proper club and he isn't capable of providing the bit when he goes into the land of the unknown because he's not been there. If he ain't good enough, he'll get the chop and all. And it'll be... That was my question, Sean, actually. That's what I was trying to get to, is this point where do we... The thing we don't account for is Deserby's ability. What we're hoping to see is Deserby's ability as a tactician, as a man manager, and building a belief in the player pool to go and achieve things greater than we could ever imagine.

42:07So, like, we've bought all these players. We've added into the squad. It may be Kruppi. It may be Savino. It might be someone else, whoever it is, that comes in. But maybe the biggest ace up our sleeve is the fact that we've got, and I'm being really open-minded and really optimistic, and that's all I want to be right now, one of the greatest tacticians in world football.

42:28Sean Kray:Well, this is the thing. being a great tactician and then actually getting over the line is two different things at times but if you look at Deserby's start point for us compared to Arteta when he first came in at Arsenal it's like chalk and cheeks he's managed to when he was believed in let's go with your project and we will back it and back it and back it he managed to get there it's like so there's no reason why does erby can't get there if he is afforded that relentless backing where it's just like every year you finish second and everyone breathes a sigh of relief because as much as no one wanted us to win the league believe me it'd be worse if it ends up being us it'll be like the whole league will just breathe a sigh of relief every time you finish second and then oh oh shit here comes summer 100 mil 100 mil and we'll just keep throwing money at it until the door falls down and then you're there and it's just it can happen like that's what i choose to believe but i think it's you're probably looking at three four five seasons of relentless spending and acting like a proper club all the way it's got a filter We're all the way down.

43:52Sean Kray:Everyone's going to be on the right money. You're buying winners. You're buying people who have done it before. And they're all there. There's no... Because that's the thing with like Harry Kane. You see it again in the World Cup. It's just like, as much as he's a wonderful footballer, that cutting edge, when the chips are down on the table... And I love Harry Kane. Always loved him. When the chips are down, he just does not have that killer instinct. to knock the door down and just hold that trophy at the end of it. All this Spurs-y pelters that he's had for his whole career and this, that and the other.

44:29Sean Kray:He's gone to Germany, he's picked up their title, still hasn't been able to shake it off. Still gets to that moment when the chips are down, it's time to just put on a great performance, bang in two goals, bang in a hat-trick in a semi-final and do it. I feel like Jude Bellingham, because he's grown up through it, winning all sorts he gets into the world cup big stages and he's like this is nothing this is actually a minor like i i'm i'm born to win a world cup i can see myself doing it i don't think harry believes it and as a club we've got a bit of that and that's what you could call spursy but there's no reason that you can't detach yourself from it by just clearing the decks and just being like...

45:15Are you comfortable with some of the sales? Not happy, but are you comfortable with the money you received for Vuscovic? If Beraval went, would you be okay with 45 million from him?

45:25Sean Kray:That's 90 million, 95 million? Being totally honest with Vuscovic, I saw him in pre-season. I've seen him for Croatia a bit and whatever. I don't know. I think he'll probably... I think Brighton's a great move for him and he probably will be very good. So, but I look at it in the moment and be like, that's decent, that's decent business. Like I think you might end up ruining it in a couple of years, but my mind don't really work that way. Let me ask the question then. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of doom scrolling, smart move. Another smart move?

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48:25Was Vuscovic doing more than Votongan was at Ajax before coming to Spurs? Probably not. Would Votongan have gone on to play for... Because I think there's this idea amongst Spurs fans, this idea that Vuscovic is going to end up captaining Real Madrid to multiple Champions League titles. I think that's what is in people's head, given the hype around the kid. This massive hype that happens to players, like Vertonghen, for example, when we signed him. He was mustered in the Dutch League. And Vuscovic was mustered in, you know, in the, what's it called? Bundesliga. So if, you know, if we get 50 million, 60 million pound out of Vuscovic from not kicking a ball for Spurs and he reaches, if he's good enough, reaches anywhere near Vertongheny level,

49:19Sean Kray:then we've done all right already. That's it. I mean, it's that five-year period from like age 20 to 25 where players really go through the gears and become a brilliant player. They're so unpredictable. you can have an injury come at the wrong time or you can have not a best partner with you or your team goes through hard times and anything can knock you out you just don't know so with Voskovic going there you can't have everybody he's very similar to Bergvau in that kind of way they want to play football they want to be playing week in, week out they're not interested in knocking about and coming on as a sub here and there.

50:05Sean Kray:They believe that they can go all the way to the top. And sometimes you've just got to let them ones go. If you're not going to play them, they've got to go. If you're lucky enough that you can sort out another loan deal. But when players have got that kind of ambition, they want to go and play. I'm not too worried. I feel like Bergvau, as much as he's a very impressive player, there's still question marks. I'm still not sure it's still a rough diamond I think if you were to say to me oh this season Bergvaule's going to play he's going to start 20 games for us I'd be quickly revising where I think we're going to finish in the league because I don't I just don't see him growing into it and being dominant with the type of player he is doesn't mean I don't think he will get there but he's not he's probably still three years away from it it's a risk I mean look As you were talking, I remember the massive hype about Lenny Jorre, the centre-back that Man Utd bought.

51:08In 2024, he was regarded as one of, if not the best, young centre-back in world football. He came to the Premier League and he was okay for his age, decent, good. If Spurs were to link with Lenny Jorre this summer, no one would be going, oh, we should win the league. Oh, that's a perfect sign-in for us. I mean certainly there may be some tacticos who might feel the same differently but you know he was linked with Real Madrid you know he was widely considered incredible and he came to the Premier League and he's had his injuries and he suffered with the pace of it and that's what any player can do so there was no banker that Vuzkovic or Baravao or any of them can actually compete at

51:52Sean Kray:this level there's certain players who go to real madrid and are very good for them like you look at someone like sergio ramos like one of the best center-halves of our generation without question um i just think that like even in his prime if you plonked him into the premier league i think he would have had a serious adjustment period i don't think he would have walked into it because it's so different and it's almost like um he's like Sergio Ramos he's like almost of the same sort of ilk as Cristiano Romero like in the way of the on the edge excellent excellent in the challenge excellent in the opposition box very very good on the ball and I could imagine I could imagine you putting Cristiano Romero at Real Madrid and him being brilliant absolutely brilliant winning the Champions League and all that kind of stuff doesn't help it doesn't change the fact that when you put him in a bottom half of the league Tottenham team he's like he struggles he comes under the cosh he gets very frustrated not being able to pass out means that he makes the odd bad decision he gets caught out someone like Sergio Ramos would probably as stupid as it sounds struggle a little bit and find himself back in Spain where it completely suits him.

53:14Sean Kray:And Leni Jouro is a bit, seems like that to me as well. I think if you did go and put him somewhere like that, say if he was at PSG, I think he'd be brilliant. But in this league, it's kind of, it's a little bit, it's a little bit different. I don't necessarily mean it's that much better or harder, but it's definitely different. Yeah, for sure. and you know do you remember the Golden Boy listings you know there's the young players that sort of they're like it's like a Ballon d 'Or thing for young players yeah and Matthias De Ligt is now playing at Man United again a player that has had a sort of decent career he's played for Juve he's played for Bayern Munich he's played for Ajax he's now playing at Man United but you would say his career is probably on descendancy it's like there's no guarantees no matter how good do you think a player is?

54:08And my point is, at Spurs, we don't have the luxury of holding on to this potential. We have to make a reality out of the potential. What do we have? What will help us win this season? And it isn't right now, and hopefully it will be in two years when we're Champions League regulars, where you can cultivate young talent. Right now, we're not that. So, we have to be aggressive in selling our young players, in my opinion.

54:32Sean Kray:I like the defensive signings. I really like Sanessi. I just honestly feel like he's going to have a good old battle with van der Ven for that position who do you think starts the first game of the season like I feel like it will be van der Ven what should it be but but because he's used to the club and whatever and I don't know but in terms of the way that they suit the way that I believe that we're going to be looking to play which is even more kind of inviting teams on than we were towards the end of last season way more I just think Sanessi will be better at it and I just think I agree with you but I do think first game of the season it will be Van der Ven but I just don't I wouldn't be surprised if Sanessi ends up muscling him out Sanessi and Van Hecker are like quarterbacks they're so good with the ball at their feet it was just such crucial really enjoyed Van Hecker during the World Cup just watching him that bit more closely now that we've got him he's excellent at it yeah he really is he really is a couple of quick fire questions before we end for you Sean if you don't mind some of it was about the pre-season that neither of us has watched I mean we watched the old bit but how interesting is it really it's just a bit of Spurs that's back but I think you said like waking up at four o 'clock in the morning or whatever it might be it's just not something we can do big shout out to all the Americans that get up in the middle of the night and watch Spurs, you know, continually will watch Spurs despite us nearly getting relegated, be there every single, like the people I've talked to in the pubs were packed in America just in the hope that Spurs may survive and they chose this.

56:18This wasn't forced upon them by their fathers. They chose this journey and they're sticking with it. Anyway, here's some stuff for you. One side in Tottenham absolutely still need, doesn't need to be a name but can be a player, a position. if you only signed one more, who should be?

56:36Sean Kray:I mean, it would be creepy. So the number nine position is the most important. It would be creepy. There are a couple. I still really want Gibbs white, but that wouldn't be this season. I think that like this season, if we're going into it and we've got Madison in there and you can kind of believe that he's with less games, hopefully he's going to play enough games that we could manage in that 10. You know, we've got priorities over that position. But yeah, next season, probably, it'd be Gibbs White. I still want him. All right. Keep or sell Beraval, Lucas Beraval? For the right money, I'd sell him.

57:16What's the right money?

57:19Sean Kray:I mean, I quite like the look of 50 mil when I saw it the other day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, it starts getting lower than that and you start thinking, come on, you look at the price that certain players are going for. I think you can I think you can get him Keep or loan Mikey Moore? Loan Yeah I'm not sold on Mikey Moore At all You're not sold So you But would you Be willing to sell him I still haven't Seen With my own eyes Him do something Where I'm like He's going to be A Premier League player I think he stood out At Rangers But that's not Premier League level Yeah I just haven't seen it Myself I'm hoping it works You know I watched like Williams Barnett and I'm just like do you know what he's he looks like he's absolutely mustard and I'm like he looks like he's destined for Premier League and top end of it but Mikey Moore everyone's raving he's very young he's still 18 for a month or so and he's I haven't seen it with my own eyes so that's fine that's fine Williams Barnett how many games will he play for Spurs next season?

58:35Sean Kray:I think, including cup competitions, appearances, 10 maybe. 10 would be massive. I think 10, but I don't think that they're planning on that happening. I think that he's going to grab the opportunities with both hands when he does. Do you not think a loan would be better for him, like a championship loan? I don't. and don't get me wrong it's only from for the last couple of seasons just whenever they're putting the highlights out of the the youth football i've been looking out for him because i've just been excited by him and just and what the the build of him the way he glides with the ball and he's so confident even when it was last year he k he did come on one game and he was playing out wide left and he just didn't have that fear in him it was just go like so i can imagine these scenarios where he does get thrown on not even just oh you know in a against some team in the league cup i can see a situation where we're in a game and we're chasing it and they're kind of like let's let's bring him on i think he will get most of his chances probably out wide which he isn't his position it's not where he's great but i think that's where he'll find his a lot of his football to begin with and i think he's like 17 when he'll be moving towards 18 shortly, I'd imagine.

59:56Certainly next year, in the next season. It's fine for him to be playing development football, right? Under-21s or Premier League B or whatever, the under-21 Premier League. He's fine to be playing that and then being available for Spurs. Maybe his development can be there because he's technical, he's not physical. His physical build needs to be worked upon, but it's not... I think he's magic. I really do. I think there's such a player there. I just hope he gets an opportunity at Spurs. But not at the expense of us winning games is what I would say.

1:00:25Sean Kray:Yeah. Like Donnelly's the other one that I think looks good from what I've seen. But it's, yeah, Mikey Moore, I haven't seen it yet, but... All right, fine. Does a striker arrive to replace Solanke? Do you think we'll get Kruppi through the door? If not Kruppi, another player who is better than Solanke? Because the question here is, if it isn't Kruppi, who could be available? Who is better than Solanke out there that we can buy? Yeah. I hate the fact that like Richarlison doesn't even get a mention and he's there. Would you rather have Richarlison than Solanke? I'd rather Solanke. I would love...

1:01:05Sean Kray:If I was to say, oh, there's a bomber tomorrow and it's like, oh, Richarlison's off to Everton and they've finally stumped up the little about the money that it would take to bring their prodigal son home, I would love it. I would really... It'd be one of the big happiest moments this summer. And for him to go and then we're like, right, we're now going to go and get whether it's Kruppi or whoever, but he'd be the one that I want. The other one I'd like to be Solanke because I just think that Solanke is an actual footballer. I think he's actually got a touch. He can actually kick a ball. Like Richarlison struggles to kick the ball.

1:01:45Sean Kray:I know what you mean. While he's a professional footballer, obviously he doesn't. He looks like, it does sometimes look like it's so awkward. it's like when the ball goes to him Peter Crouch at times felt the same I just think that's really insulting to Peter Crouch like honestly cumbersome and clumsy at times he looked clumsy until he connected with the ball and it was actually a good connection whereas Richarlison it comes from the back post at Anfield and it's just like oh he's actually buried it and you watch it back and it's coming off his ankle and you're just like you nearly missed the ball so he does me nothing and he's just one of those ones where I dislike him more than I should just because of agendas I guess and it's like but I'd love him to go and it'd be someone else I think Solanke battling against someone not literally not just coming back from injury and trying to work his way and actually fit and battling against someone I think that's a healthy what he had absolutely no injury issues playing for Bournemouth for Chelsea for Liverpool before he came to Spurs and And lo and behold, I mean, that's ultimately what's going to dictate our season is how many players we have fit throughout it and whether or not the pitch is an issue and whether or not these changes in coaching and sports science and the medical team are going to have any impact.

1:03:04Sean Kray:That's the thing. Where a lot of this optimism of what I'm looking at going into the new season is me looking at the fact that we're going to be playing less games should then mean less injuries. and then I'm making a positive prediction based on having more players available for more of the season. If that doesn't turn out to be the case and we have another completely injury-ravaged season where like Tenali's out for nine months, Fernandes is out for nine months and you're just like, you're almost back to square one sort of thing. But we'll see. Right, Sean, this has been legendary. Thank you so much, mate.

1:03:44if anyone wants to listen to more of your musings then they can go and listen to Two Gies in a Pod

1:03:50Sean Kray:Two Gies in a Pod with Billy T Billy T, the legend that is so go and check out so they record the battle on the weekend but when is it released for people to see or is it just clips that people pay for it how does it work? well the thing is it's at an event on Saturday that's at Hootenanny in Brixton so if anyone wants to come down it's Saturday I'll be on about four o 'clock and then it'll be out in about three or four weeks there you go so go and follow a yiddo go and if anything comes on top you can back him I did an absolute yiddo today actually I was at the end of the day at work I was parked outside KFC I was like oh I'll get this in and I'm eating it and then they'll see a kid getting out of his car in a full Tottenham kit about 12 years old and where I live in Shrewsbury you don't see that many so I rolled down the window and I've gone Yido one of the ones where he looks round with panic but the old man looks round with a little nod of approval I don't even shout Yido at kids anymore but of our generation you can mate the greatest thing that I used to experience when I was a kid when I used to have a Spurs shirt on walking up and someone shouted Yido at me that was like I've never been more on top of the world than that it was a wonderful wonderful thing nice one Jordan so down at the where is it Brixton Hootenanny Brixton and yeah next time we speak we will be marching towards Premier League glory in around sort of August September time I'd imagine Sean unless you're available but we'll see yeah last one Sean take care mate alright nice see ya

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1:06:28Sean Kray:I recently got back from a holiday in Bilek in Turkey It was brilliant But I did spend it looking longingly at the golf courses in the area In reality, if I'd taken my clubs, I probably would have come back from that family holiday single. It's a brilliant place, stunning beaches, five-star hospitality in some of the best hotels on earth. But for me, just getting out on those courses would have been the icing on the cake. Search Turkey on TripAdvisor now to book your ultimate golf holiday in the Turkish Riviera.