S16E15 - The Bentancur Renaissance

0:00Before the season even kicks off, soccer fans are already making predictions. Who wins the league? Who qualifies for Europe? And who's lifting the trophy at season's end? On Calci, America's number one prediction market platform, you're trading against peers in a live market, meaning there's no house. And as the probability changes, you can buy in and out of your position. For a limited time, download the Calci app and use code CUP26 to get$10 when you trade 10. K-A-L-S-H-I. Calci. Trade the beautiful game. 18 plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors.

0:32Prices, values, and available markets may differ from those mentioned. For more information, see calsheet.com slash regulatory. It's the fighting. It's the fighting. Cock! It's the fighting. It's the fighting. Cock! A camel turner! um alex just shown up with one of the worst things i've ever seen as a middle-aged man he's he's wearing what looks to be like a friendship basic like how pathetic can you be well you've gone straight in with the middle age and you're older than me yeah but you're going to be 40 you soon yeah but that's not middle age is it we're all that's all the same we're all sort of hurtling towards yeah well you keep saying about this whole on a rock hurtling thing but i've noticed that you only seem to say that since since tottenham aren't very good when we were good it was all embrace your life, go for your dreams and now because I've got a friendship bracelet which me and my daughter matched from a charity thing and cost a coffee you've got a problem with it it looks like a nine year old made it she didn't make it, we bought it right she's nine?

1:49yes, correct she's nine? yeah, well done get in there! brilliant as the godfather of your child i have outdone myself there i was gonna say you're supposed to know that it's like the minimum yeah but i've only recently become the godfather but before it was ricky and ricky let alex downs and now it's me well yeah but we've we've we've we've made friends again now me and rick we've stopped breaking friends we've made friends so i'm not the godfather anymore no you're you're not reliable i would take care of her if something happens when something very soon happens to you uh i will definitely take care of her yeah but Yeah, but yeah.

2:25She'll come live with me. Huh? She'll come live with me. She'll call me Papa Flav. Papa Flav. Yeah. She does have a mum as well. Right. She does, yeah. Mark, you've got a cold, haven't you? Like a little girl. I have. Yeah, it's pathetic. It is pathetic. I do like that top though. What is it? Some sort of... This is a gilet in a teddy material with a cow prick. Callum loves it. Everyone else took the piss out of me. I wore it to the stadium once that was a mistake I loved it I loved it I loved it thank you tons to talk about and tons to squeeze into the next hour or so we've got shit loads of questions from our patrons it's patreon.com forward slash fighting cock if you want to be a part of that and listen to more of this sort of stuff and so obviously there's so many things to talk about I think categorically just waiting for Alex to return I think can we Al put your headphones on.

3:24Huh? Oh, your headphones. All right. Don't give a shit. That's right. I forgot you don't give a shit about anything. So yeah, no, let's just clear up this fucking Nico Williams bollocks for once and all, once and for all. Okay. There is nothing to clear up. No. No, you're not allowed. I don't know if there's any Forest fans listening to this for some sort of weird reason. We do have fans from pretty much every Premier League club that listen to the fighting cult religiously who don't support Spurs, which I always find I think that's probably the greatest compliment we can be given. Because some people have to listen because there are Liverpool fans right now.

4:03I think it's because our best content is when we're not talking about Tottenham. But everybody listen to this. There is a Forest fan listening to this. You cannot, under no circumstances, use your hands if you're not a goalkeeper. Certainly not if you're scoring a goal with them. It doesn't matter if you're an inch away from the goal line or you're 18 yards out or you punch the ball in from a corner. It's exactly the same. You're not allowed to do it. Imagine that. It's like a welly. Just smash it with your face into the top right corner. Bouch and then celebrate. There's a little extra area. No, you can't.

4:45You can't score with your hands. Like it's problematic. You just can't do it. If you start letting people score in your hands it will be a free fall i don't understand like i was listening to there's a couple of there's a forest fan on talk sport i won't name him no doubt i'll pass across at some stage but i was driving back from the game and he was hosting with someone and the way he was talking about it is this that this was the greatest robbery on earth glasner was at the same and the the thing they kept going was it wasn't clear and obvious it was clear and obvious The ball hit his hand before going into the goal.

5:21That's what the AR is for. I can tell them exactly why it was disallowed. Handball. Go on. Handball. Yeah, handball. He used his hands. Do you know when you have your kid, right? And you've got dreams of them being Premier League footballers, boys or girls, whatever it might be, right? And what the kids do, the first thing they do, the first thing they do when the ball is at their feet, they pick it up with their hands and you tell them from that age you've got to kick it you're not allowed to pick it up with your hands and they keep picking it up because they're morons but eventually and perhaps Forest fans never got past that sort of embryonic stage of being a human being you pick it up it's not allowed it's a foul it's against the rules so why is it that Nico Williams knows it's hit his hands he knows it's hit his hands gone I didn't I can say categorically that I did not touch that with my hands.

6:19What, is that what you said? Yeah. It's just lies. After the game. I blame Nico Williams' dad. Yeah. I think it's a lapse in his upbringing. I've stopped taking my boy to football practice because he just doesn't fucking know. I swear he's on some other planet. He just runs around, picks the ball up all the time. And Nico Williams' dad should have done that. He should have just gone, Nico Williams clearly is not good enough to be on this football pitch now. So you're saying about taking your boy to, like you take him to football training, he keeps picking it up and then you put him in the car and you go, what are you fucking doing?

6:54All the kids are like, you know, kids younger than him as well. Like they're doing drills and they're like running in between cones and like shooting. This little R word is literally take, like picking the ball up and just running like a maniac circles around the sports hall. That would drive me fucking nuts. Like a lunatic. I just can't do it anymore I'm like you're just not doing football anymore that's it there's a martial arts centre across the world I'll stick him in there forget about him for an hour each week yeah but he'll probably start knitting that's he's mate this guy has some serious like he's got like strong strong robbery energy like he's gonna go out robbing some people soon it looks like what you're wearing now looks like he's knitted it to be honest what is that what is that when you weren't there I told you Flapper.

7:43It looks like, for anyone who can't see this, but it's like a, it's like a cardigan that, you know when you, you know when you're doing toasted marshmallows and you just get the edge of it and it just goes that little bit of like light brown around the edge. It looks like that. I like it. And I've got to say, Mark's dress sense is impeccable. I've said this before. It is. He's a well-dressed man. Thank you. I won't say much, you know, my favourite thing is making fun of Mark. But in this instance, I won't. Do you know what I've started doing now? Before each podcast, I'm like, what's the news happening in Denmark?

8:14What are the Denmark news? Anything funny? Because he might ask about stupid stuff. No, on the preview, not in the main pod. Nothing funny happens in Denmark. He fundamentally said, it didn't touch my hands. Yeah, he said... Well, that's a lie. I'll get you the... Stop lying. So not only is he... Gaslighting us. Yeah. But also, is this what you want to be known for? Being a liar? because the world can see it. There's been an action, the BBC,

8:49the BBC, it came out with a new angle, which blind, where you see him and it looks even worse, this angle, and I appreciate VAR didn't have this one. I don't know why they don't have this and the BBC does when it's, that's their job. But we both, he punches it with both hands. I mean, it was, I'll be honest, at the time I was like, whew, got away with that one. Yeah, same. Because obviously, like hands up, protect your face and stuff. But it doesn't matter. It's hit your hand and gone in. And if he's not careful, we won't come back for him in January. So you better watch him out. He's naughty boy.

9:23Do you know what? I hope I didn't make that quote up. I'm sure people have seen it. I can't find it. I thought it was on Reddit and it's not here. I might have just made it up in my excitement. So you've told me that Nico Warren has fundamentally said, I can absolutely promise you that I did not touch that with my hand. Now you can't even promise me that the quote was real. after I've done and said that. Yeah, I will try and find it. Can we also start with an appreciation of Rodri Bantingor? Because I think, and I'll get your thoughts on this first, Mark, I think we all abandoned him a little bit.

10:03And it's within our rights as football fans to give up on a player that had a really bad injury, not showing the support he needs, and perhaps, you know, just sort of move on from him. That's what we do, right? He's getting paid well. We move on if they're not good enough. Since the Serb has come in, I think quietly been our best player. And his performance against Forest, and I spoke to Cal after the game on our Patreon instant reaction, it went under the radar, but it was also beautifully controlled. It wasn't the highlight reel of when Savio picked up the ball from a chop from Gallagher and played it through Murillo's legs like he wasn't even there.

10:45It was something else. It was what the team needs to play well. And I just, I think he deserves his props. Yeah, completely. I mean, we spoke about it in the group as well, like during and after the game, how good he was just in that game, but also just this season so far. And I think it is, you know, if you're a bit of an naysayer, you'd go, oh, we spent nearly 400 million, but Benton Kuhl is still, you know, but you're missing the point, obviously. I think he's still going to have a massive role to play for us. And like if you, what I like about him as well is all the stuff he does, not just out of possession where he works incredibly hard defensively, but he's such a good teammate to the other players on that pitch.

11:33Like if you're lucky enough to go to games, you'll see him speaking to everyone around him, like constantly like holding arms around shoulders and that's so important, especially in a team like ours at the moment where we are struggling. It's still trying to find our feet a little bit and so on. Obviously, it should be in a much better position. I believe we are in a much better position last year. But yeah, he's going to be massively important for us. If nothing else, to kind of bridge this gap going into this new look Tottenham side because he has got a ton of qualities there. I mean there was you know under previous managers there have been times where he's been one of the outstanding performers in the team so Conte before you before you had his ACL yeah you're right you know he can score goals as well like so whereas we must have used him as a bit more of a defensive midfielder this season so far like he is a very very very good player and I think we do forget that to your point where everything has been so negative and you know there's been a lot of negativity around the team and the manager and all that kind of stuff.

12:36Of course, he's been tied with that brush and that sort of double pivot of doom that he was part of as well. So, yeah. But look, I'm really, really happy for it. I'm really happy for him. I'm, you know, obviously buzzing that he's getting his flowers because he deserves them. Is there a world where Bentancourt starts every game this season in the Premier League for Deserby? because in our eye, I think we all want to see a Tanale Fernandes sort of double pivot, sort of midfield. But perhaps that isn't the reality. Perhaps Bentancourt is our number one guy in that position, certainly in the six.

13:17I think he's, I think I said in the group, I think it's just a question of, it was a serious injury. And unfortunately, we've had a few more of those injuries since then. And time will tell. Howard Javi comes back, howard Abair comes back, Madison you know that that's a serious injury to come back from and it's taken him a long time to get up to to a level I mean when we when he got injured you know we were all devastated because that was that was a monumental loss at the time and I just think he's getting back closer and closer to those levels maybe not I'd like to see him do a few more of those kind of marauding runs and he was one of the best pressers as well particularly in that kind of panel third it might be a question the way he ends up a little bit further forward um with fernandez and tonali to try and you know or you can rotate it to try and benefit from those skills that he has he might not be able to do all of them together now um but at times it might be where you need a where you need a stronger press i don't know i think you know to be able to rotate between the three of them i think is a good option you know and just because we've spent you know the money that we have on tonali and fernandez you know let's let's have it right tonali's been relatively poor so far It was fine.

14:26It was absolutely fine against Forrest. I won't have that. Yeah, fine. Yeah, he was fine. Yeah, yeah, I'm fine. If you had the Brentford game and parts of the Newcastle game, then you could say, yeah, what you just said was fair. Sorry, I reacted. Sorry. Yeah, I just put, again, you know, it's, we all want our£100 million signing to be fantastic and not be getting any stick whatsoever. But it also doesn't mean that we can't, you know, call it out when it's not great. And it hasn't been, you know, those moments still gave the ball away a lot on Saturday. you know but time will time will come you know it's some people just take longer to settle into newer situations it's the same all the time um but uh the the phrase is time will tell not time will come alex um these are the the these are the him him wow i've i've i've sat i've sat here for a decade listening to call listening listening to him call postacoglu pochettino uh butcher every name and then he wants to i'm saying the time will come for tonali to to get to his level and he's not even listened to me making that point and incorrectly thought that i meant the phrase time will tell and he's just gone and said it out loud yeah um i look i just want you to be the best version of you you don't what what you were getting annoyed about and itchy in then is that i wasn't 100 positive about 100 million pounds signing when you thought he was all right against i apologize for that i apologize for that very quickly which shows you the fabric of me um this is nico williams uh quotes direct quotes from sky sports it's a goal far is there for when there's a clear and obvious error and for me that's not clear and obvious i headed it in between my arms if you pause it it looks like it's going to hit my arm but it didn't it hit my arm wow it's the don't believe you don't believe you um yeah so uh fuck nico williams uh which is fine i mean look what i've found out what i've realized is if you want to know what happened on a football pitch in the premier league the last people you need to speak to is the fans of either side yeah but what is stupid is because i even i i did another podcast with um hltco and we were talking about this morning and i was like when in real term in real time when it went in no one had when we were disappointed that we'd conceded but we didn't have an issue of it it looked like a legitimate goal it's not it was fine like i was like fuck we need to come back that was my feeling i didn't notice anything at the time but what my position now is fuck forest because of how their fans have reacted that's what i that's where i'm at i'm like i'm with you in a way but because you're being wankers about it now i'm against you i mean your reaction to oh we've got to come back now that's a better reaction to what i had i i genuinely got a bit teary no no no i i think I wasn't nearly as measured as that.

17:38I was just focused on the point. I was like, I wonder if I don't even need to put my shoes on. I'm going to run out the front and there's a main road out there and just see what happens. Yeah. Yeah. I started just looking at the bedroom window. Just looking at it. How much force would it take to try to do that? I was... Yeah, I was upset. I was upset. Yeah. Was you upset? Was you in any way encouraged? Did you feel like we're moving in the right direction now? I felt like that after Newcastle, which is bizarre after a 2-0 defeat, but I wasn't particularly moved either way by Saturday, to be honest.

18:24I wasn't like, oh, that's another step on from Newcastle. We had 12 shots, not one of them at the target. No, but we had an XG of 1.86. I don't, you know my thoughts on that. Yeah, but you cannot ignore it. I can't. There's loads of people that ignore it. Roy Keane ignores it. It's fine, right? It's nonsense. It's not nonsense. No, no, no. Let me come in. Now, with what we're looking at now, more than ever is now the time to trust your eyes of what you're seeing. Not data, not now. Not now. Not when you've got this many people coming in and this much change of style and what you're looking for is an identity for this team to have.

18:59Now is not the time to be looking at data, people, right? Forget all the other podcasts that talk about data and tactics and stuff all the time. That's not where you need to be spending your energy. Say the podcast you mean. Yeah. Say the podcast you mean. Huh? Say the podcast you mean. Well, Bardi's one. But the one, what you need to be looking at is what your eyes and what your just football feeling tells you. And what it tells you right now is that there is a lot of stuff that needs to click that isn't. That's not to say that it won't, but don't be consoling yourself with XG and all of this nonsense.

19:31So no, what you are, you're a popularist. Alex, which, you know, ends up with terrible people getting in power typically. And what I'm saying to you is the facts, without the emotion, the facts, statistical data that doesn't care about how you feel, said we should have scored 1.8 goals in that game. Yeah, but... Isn't it, Mark? Yeah. I'm not arguing with you two about this. No, but Alex, like, don't you feel there's been a, like... I look at these three games and I think there's been progress. I would go out and say like huge progress because we haven't scored a fucking goal. So, but like, I think there's been progress from the first game through to the other two.

20:19Like I definitely, I think there was progress to into Newcastle. And then I definitely think there's been more progress. Like what was the progress? I don't, I wasn't moved either way from Newcastle to Forest. What, what was, what was the progress from Newcastle Forest, you think? Defensively, maybe? Before the season even kicks off, soccer fans are already making predictions. Who wins the league? Who qualifies for Europe? And who's lifting the trophy at season's end? On Calci, America's number one prediction market platform, you're trading against peers in a live market, meaning there's no house.

20:48And as the probability changes, you can buy in and out of your position. For a limited time, download the Calci app and use code CUP26 to get$10 when you trade 10. K-A-L-S-H-I, Calci. Trade the beautiful game. 18 plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Prices, values, and available markets may differ from those mentioned. For more information, see calsheet.com slash regulatory. When you walk into a Burlington, you're walking into amazing prices and great styles. That's main character energy. Because at Burlington, the wow deals aren't the only thing turning heads.

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21:42I think defensively, we look more structured and more solid. I thought Van Hecke has improved massively over the three games. I think our fullbacks look more. I think Udogi played some of his best minutes. I really like the look of Robertson now so I think that's good I think defensively we feel good it was Gallagher's best game definitely Gallagher's best game easily I definitely I also think the attackers looked better like I know Mamouche you know but he didn't miss it by that much I think if he do you know how I know wait wait wait do you know how I know that you don't mean that is because how high pitched your voice went when you were talking about and the attackers were there also it would have been chalked off anyway for a foul on Nico Williams.

22:24I should have buried it, but there was one bit that Marmouche was really guilty of, and that wasn't squaring it to Kudus when he had that opportunity. But his overall play, that turn was like, you know, it was unreal, unreal. So, yeah, sorry, Mark, there were positives. And it's fine to be optimistic right now. You feel a little bit better than you did after Brentford, Alex, at least. After Newcastle, I did. All I'm saying about Forrest, I'm at the same point as I was after Newcastle, which was infused despite losing 2-0. Yeah, and we didn't lose. Last time, they slapped us for six last season.

23:03I just say, it does worry, there's no goal in three games. It fucking doesn't matter, Alex. Don't worry about scoring goals. Football's not about scoring goals anymore. Do you know what I'm doing now? It's been like this for like two and a bit years now. I know. Is it like, when I watch football, I'm like, I'm watching Everton United. I'm like, I feel like I'm watching a different sport. Because I'm just seeing all these people smiling and having fun and these mental things happening on a football pitch. And it's like I'm like, it is like a different sport. This is not a game that I recognise anymore.

23:33I was doing a podcast with James Alcott yesterday, no, last week, sorry. And I was like, you're looking around and you're looking at all these people enjoying it. There isn't a great deal between us and Chelsea now, right? In terms of our appetite to spend and be aggressive, I think there is no one with the limitations we have as a football club, given the fact that we finished it at 17th twice, that was more aggressive and ambitious in the transfer market than Tottenham. So you could say Man City, but they're in a different world. We spent more than almost every other team. We are being aggressive.

24:13And maybe that's going to take time to play out. But you do look around and go, it's not fair that we're the only ones that don't get to play. That's exactly it. it's not fair it just isn't look at all this stuff happening like they someone scored a screamer on like who was it Maitland Niles I was like since when has that been in his locker I didn't even know he was a footballer anymore I thought he gave up I had no idea he was there honestly when it was like that it was like that David Brown I was like what are you doing here I could not believe it I didn't even know he'd signed for him I screamed when he scored that goal and do you know why not because I give a shit about Maitland Niles or Evan I just like goals now I don't care who scores them I just want to say it's so true I just want to see team score goals it's mental isn't it it is crazy but I thought overall overall positive I agree with you about Van Hecker

25:05I'm enjoying him more and more every week yeah some of his line breaking passes I know it's like such a boring nerd thing to sit and talk about but like just think like I think there was some mad stat he's already done like a third of what Romero did all of last season for us in terms of, I know you're a big Romero star now, so you're like, I'm going to need to go and fact check that. That's the only fact you're going to care about for the next season. Alex would rather, he would defend Romero in an argument ahead of one of our actual players currently. That's not true, but I will say. No, that is true.

25:37All right. So if you had a choice, what could you do with more confidence? Defend Tell or defend Romero who's left us? Oh, yeah. That's different. He's our player, Alex. You won't get behind our players. Yeah, but Tell's shit. oh dear here we go i just i'm just i'm trying to be positive about van hecker and this is sorry i like i like that i like van heck um is it van hecker or van heck who cares van hecker is hecker i care because i've been abused abused about pronouncing barry val's name correctly for two years and i stopped with my guns and now everyone's saying yeah you are right i am right i am fucking right so i want to know it's van hecker isn't it so stop everyone saying van heck it's not van hecke is it and it's not it's not i've heard people call him like sean or shan it's not that it's yan yan paul van hecke fan if you want to be a real prick about it fan fan that's how they pronounce the v in dutch alex is loving it um yeah i wonder what they call him like in They're probably just calling Paul.

26:44Jan Paul?

26:48Yeah, so it's fine. We're going to win the league. We're going to win the league. Three, you know, we haven't scored a goal. Get it? Don't look like we're scoring a goal. But is that really what this is all about? What did we think of... Right now it's about passing triangles, isn't it? That's what it's all about. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. There was a great moment when Kinski passed to... He had the option to go left or right. The centre-back split. it it went into Benton core not under a great deal of pressure but you had to pass fine van hecker with the pass as soon as he hit that pass van hecker knew exactly what he was aiming at and hit it through the lines into our midfield and you just got moments like that like that if that becomes second nature and if it becomes just easily what what we do if someone is dumb enough to bait you know if someone is to dumb enough to fall for us baiting their press and we can pass through them like that, then I think we're onto a good thing.

27:45And what fucking pissed me off is that fucking... Can you be offensive to Austrians? I think you can. I don't think anyone cares if you're offended to it. Hit us, Austrian. You can do what you want. No one here, certainly. Go for it. No, there's quite a lot of people listening. I've said... I've had my wrist slapped by a few of our listeners recently. Oh, yeah. I don't think they give a shit about Austrians. Australia. I didn't even say the word. I said Austrians I said Austrians anyway Glasner going it's easy it's almost easy to play against the Zerbi you know exactly what you can do it's easy and they were like what the fuck are you on about firstly was that easy when you were conceding corner after corner not goals but corner after corner after corner weren't fucking easy was it you cunt it's the death of it I wanted to ask a question before we move on what did we think of Fernandes being on the bench.

28:40Okay, before you answer this question, let me read you Deserby's quote. Okay. It says, I have experience to know enough what is this stadium. This is verbatim. This stadium is England football. I think he meant English football. And Gallagher, he knows better this type of game. Mattis will become, for sure, in my time at Tottenham, one of the best players. But I'm lucky enough that I have good players and I have to find the right first 11 for each game. So here's a choice. Yeah, yeah. And I think we all want to see Fernandes playing football for Tottenham. I think we all agree that he'll probably be our best signing out of everyone that's come through the door.

29:19But the De Zerbi as the manager has just chosen that for this game, it wasn't right for him. So back to De Zerbi. Was he correct? Yeah, I think Gallagher was excellent. I thought it was a really good game from him. Yes, he was correct. I felt Gallagher was good and I think I put it in the group after about 20 minutes I was like whisper it quietly but I think Gallagher's playing quite well here why do you have to whisper it quietly? because there's people in our group in particular that get quite angry about about Conor Gallagher and I my issue with it was is he was playing well but not in the role that he was actually in like he did some really nice some covering works and really kind of dogged type stuff in the middle of the park but you know he was essentially playing number 10 and nothing was happening.

30:08And I was like, well, 10 something, 10 it. We don't have any though, do we? I know. And this is what Rick and I have been saying all summer. We need another 10. And that's why I just thought Fernandes would have been better at that. And I don't think he did get it correct. I think Gallagher played well, but I think that was the incorrect call. If I can say something quickly. I know the, I don't know, it's tough to say. it's probably easier now that the game's happened, right? To sit here and go, should have played Fernandes because I agree with Al. Gallagher didn't do a lot creatively, which is probably what we were looking for from him.