THE LAB | Luka Vuskovic Is Not Normal

28:51So what I mean by that is like, if you're the best player, the ball will kind of find you. Is that in that players are just looking for you? It kind of, it just, the game falls that way. and you naturally you read it and you naturally kind of like arrive in the areas that you will affect it and he just has that so if you have that thing where the ball will arrive there he understands where to be quite a lot he takes the right gambles and you've got the physicality to dominate and the and the technical quality to you know to make it work it's just it's going to happen he's going to score goals he just is I mean the goal in pre-season was class like when when that.

29:32The world moves fast. Your work day, even faster. Pitching products, drafting reports, analyzing data. Microsoft 365 Copilot is your AI assistant for work. Built into Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and other Microsoft 365 apps you use. Helping you quickly write, analyze, create, and summarize. So you can cut through clutter and clear a path to your best work. Learn more at Microsoft.com slash M365 Copilot. Score more with the college-branded Venmo debit card and earn up to 5 % cash back with Venmo Stash. Got paid back? With the Venmo debit card, you can instantly access your balance and spend on what you want, like game day snacks, gear, tickets, and more.

30:15The more you do, the more cash back you can earn. Plus, there's no monthly fee or minimum balance. Sign up now at Venmo.com slash college card. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A. Select schools available. Venmo stash terms and exclusions apply at venmo.me slash stash terms. Max$100 cash back per month. This episode is brought to you by White Claw Surge. Great podcast pick, friend. No surprises there. After all, you're all about finding the tastiest flavors out there, just like White Claw Surge. And with big, bold flavors to enjoy, like blood orange, blackberry, cranberry, and more, it's time to go all in on taste.

30:48Unleash the flavor. Unleash White Claw Surge. Please drink responsibly. Hard seltzer with flavors. 8 % alcohol by volume. White Claw Seltzer Works, Chicago, Illinois. So listen, we played Reading in the preseason away from home. Kudus went down the left-hand side and it was passed into him and just so nonchalantly just opened himself up. And such a difficult finish. It's like something a striker would do. Yeah, yeah. Didn't he get the assist for the second one or like the pre-assist as well? It wasn't at his header. Yeah, it was. The ball finds a player. So he's just a very dominant box player and dominant in his own box.

31:23dominant, you know, in the opposition's box. So just because he's a centre-back doesn't mean that he can't be absolutely lethal inside the box, you know. So no, he will always score goals. That's just who he is. That's just the thing about him. It's not like a thing on Football Manager that you'll necessarily rate in terms of like the scoring at a 20 or whatever, but it's just that thing. He just has that gene, that instinct. That's what he is. That's what he does. And yeah, that is a source of goals you can look at. You can probably look at Vuscovic and go, I don't like saying numbers because I think that puts automatic floors and ceilings on things, but you could look at Vuscovic and go, I'll back him to produce five plus goals for my team this season.

32:05That's a healthy chunk. That's a well. I was going to say that as well, in the Prem. I remember when Vertonghen arrived and he was banging 10 goals a season for Ajax. And it's like, who is this guy? And then you realise that there is a drop-off when you get to the Premier League because it's inevitably much more difficult. But if you've got like, Romero's going to get five goals. I don't know how many he's got already, right? Four? Something like that? Van der Venne's got two or three? Van der Venne's got six in all competitions. Who has? Van der Venne's got six in all competitions. Well, there you go.

32:37And then you've got Vuskovic who will deliver probably another five. That's 15 goals you don't have to worry about from your centre-backs. I know the game's changed and the old-fashioned centre-backs and would have a different role and a different expectation. And the modern era is that set pieces are much more important, which creates opportunity for players. But yeah, his abilities to finish, like that scissor kick he scored for Westerlou, it just propped up for him perfectly. No, was it Hamburg he scored the scissor? Do you mean the one in the analysis? No, I watched the TikTok just before we started and he was in for Westerlou.

33:16You know what, he's actually mad. We're talking about an 18-year-old centre-back. You're talking about a scissor kick for one team. I'm talking about a scorpion kick for another team. It's mad. All right, all right. Sorry, yeah. No, no, no. I wasn't even thinking about the scorpion kick. That was insane. How mad is that? How mad is that we're having this conversation? You're talking about a scissor kick. I'm talking about a scorpion kick for an 18-year-old centre-back in two different leagues. Yeah. I mean, that's why I'm so interested and excited to do this podcast, really, because he's doing things that you just – it just doesn't feel normal.

33:45No, it's not. And the fact that he's our player and he's under contract, so there's no chance that he's going to be going anywhere else and Spurs are a massive club and we don't have to sell to anybody. Lucas Bergwald plays for us over Barcelona because we can demonstrate an opportunity and a through route to the first team. Sure. Yeah, but the one I was talking about was it just popped up for him and he was on the sort of, I don't know, like maybe four yards off the six yard box and he's just scissor kicked it in and it's just flown into the net and you're just like this kid's magic Was that the game where he scored two goals and it was I think people they'd done like again an all comp He scored two goals yeah he did score two goals I think they'd done an all touches highlights of him and it was incredible because it was like he was a centre back but he was leading the charge to score the goals and to make to get back into the game or something it was remarkable what he was doing it was just like each new clip the ball was like in the box and it was like he's either putting it in there or he's the one on the end of it.

34:48It was almost like he's going to be like he's going to be the one passing it to himself inside the box. It got to that level of like I'll just do it. Just you could just see an absolute chasm ahead of him him ahead of the rest of the players on that pitch. I know all these players are brilliant right and they can all do these magical things but they don't do them. Like a player can go his entire season without even thinking about a scorpion kick or trying to put off a scissor kick. Most people's, I'd imagine the mentality of the young players that you're working with is something I'm sure you work on.

35:22But the fact that he just didn't instinctively have to think about what he was doing. Like, this is outrageous. I'm not going to do it. I'm going to just try and get my foot in front of it so that the defender doesn't get it. Or I'm going to try a scissor kick in this area of the pitch. He just does it because what must have happened up to his development to this point was just believe in yourself so this is very huge that we work on and it's why we like getting players when they're slightly younger when they come to us sometimes quite often they'll come to us kind of like when they're struggling and it's like either during their season or wanting to get a new contract if they're slightly younger or get into the foot whatever it might be and it's possible obviously but it is harder to ingrain those habits and mindsets because everything you just said is a mindset thing and it's why we say to place in terms of like your instinct has to be choose the most offensive option because put it this way even even as a right back and we look and i learned this way to say it from palmeiras i like their way of saying it as a right back so let's say i'm working with pedro or jed spence what do you think i would tell him his first priority to be what pedro or jed spence Either of them, yeah.

36:34What do you think I would tell them their first priority is? The first priority that you should look at to be? As a defender? Footballer. You're on the ball. You're on the ball. You're on the ball. I would say, I'm guessing it, look up and find a progressive pass. No. Can I score? Can I score? Right. Because what's the best thing that can happen from any phase of play? The absolute best thing. Yeah. You score a goal. Right. So why would we not have that as a priority? because you're picking up the ball in a place where you cannot score why not Fandav ended so all it is it's not saying you're going to be silly and you start doing stupid things but what it's doing is and this is what it is with Vuscovic I'd like to think is it's wiring your brain to look for the best possible outcome and then you work your way down from there so it's not saying to Poro you're going to get the ball deep right back and every single time just try and score from 80 yards or go on a run in yourself but it's about looking for the best that's the top thing that can happen.

37:32So why we not just look for the... Because then what do you think the second priority will be? I don't know. Can I assist? I was going to say assist, but I don't want to get it wrong again. No, but it's that... It is. No, but seriously, it is that basic. Like, full-cutting is often that basic. Can I score? Build a mentality, like an innate response to every situation. That's why that Drieskiewicz thing happens. Rather than just taking the touch and try to recycle it, he's not thinking about that. That's his instinct. Like, make the most of every situation. That's what the best players do. They don't just settle.

38:00They don't just wait. They don't wait for the perfect scenario. They make the most of every situation. And of course, more often than not, you'll probably get a scorpion kick slightly wrong if you try it. He probably has a one-in-one. I'm not sure if he's tried one before, but... It doesn't matter in that moment either. Exactly, because you've got to look at bigger picture because overall, that mindset will lead to having far more success for you yourself, for your career overall, rather than just trying to perfectly pick your moments because that's not how life of football works. So that's what Vuzkiewicz has.

38:31So yeah, that's a big thing we work with on our players. So it's not about that you have to be a striker and that's your first instinct. It's to choose the most offensive option. That is your first instinct. And Vuzkovic seems to have that. And that's even talking about defending. So it's not that he just flies into things, but he's like, if he can win the ball, of course he will try to, right? Because that's the best thing you can do there, for example. But it doesn't mean he's going to fly into things. So you've got to be smart enough to understand how to utilize that. But Vuzkovic just seems to have this unwavering self-belief.

39:01And that is the biggest thing because you said earlier about all these players are really, really good. Yeah, they are all really good. Every professional thought, I can do a scorpion kick. It can happen. But these players can produce quality. The best players, the absolute best can produce quality on the pitch. I'm not saying they're going to produce a scorpion kick every game, but they're producing quality every single, or very consistently again and again and again, whereas perhaps other players who aren't as good it will be random or they'll allow football to dictate how it happens rather than them just taking charge Can Luka Vuzkovic play in the Premier League now?

39:42You can't know without knowing but everything points towards it saying yes everything points towards saying yes also because he seems like a very quick learner so if he makes a mistake he seems to understand that and know how to fix that and I'm not saying it'll be perfect then on he's going to become infallible but everything points towards saying yes. Right. Can he play for Tottenham right now? Because it might be that he could go and loan to Fulham and do really well. You know, Brentford, there are really good Premier League loans that he could possibly get. Is he good enough to play for Spurs right now?

40:17What do you think? Equality-wise, 1 ,000%. Now, again, we don't know until we know. But like I said, everything temperament-wise and who he is points to him being potentially able to play for Real Madrid right now. I'm not saying he is and he's good enough or that should happen and that Real Madrid would take that kind of risk. But in terms of like, we can only go on what we've seen. And there's nothing to show us that he's someone that will... Now again, he could well do. And it might be smart for Spurs to go have another year in a high-level league online, whether it's the Prem or the Bundesliga again or whatever it is, have another year, playing consistently.

40:50Romero and Van der Ven will still be there, play consistently. So that would probably be a smart move from Spurs rather than taking the... Don't say gamble, but gamble too early. Would a smart move at Spurs in any way entail us bringing him back from Hamburg in January? No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, I don't think it would be. Unless you've done all your research and you believe there is a very good reason why he will be better off playing elsewhere for his own development. Your little one grew three inches overnight. Adorable. Also, expensive. Sell their pint-sized pieces on Depop and list them in minutes with no selling fees.

41:28Because somewhere, a dad refuses to pay full price for the clothes his kids will outgrow tomorrow. And he's ready to buy your son's entire wardrobe right now. Consider your future growth spurt budget secured. Start selling on Depop, where taste recognizes taste. Payment processing fees and boosting fees still apply. See website for details. Zootopia 2 has come home to Disney+. Let's go! Get ready for a new case. We're the greatest partners of all time! New friends. Gary the Snake. And your last name? The Snake. Dream Team. The New Habitats. Zootopia has a secret reptile population. You can watch the record-breaking phenomenon at home.

42:05Zootopia 2, now available on Disney Plus Rated PG. And right now you can get Disney Plus and Hulu for just$4.99 a month for three months with a special limited time offer ends March 24th. After three months, plan auto renews and$12.99 a month terms apply. Nothing brings people together quite like Team USA at the Olympic Winter Games. From NBC Universal's iconic storytelling to the innovative technology across Xfinity and Peacock, Comcast brings the Olympic Games home to America, sharing every moment with millions. When Team USA steps onto the world stage, people aren't just watching, they're cheering together.

42:41This winter, everyone is all on the same team. Comcast, proud partner of Team USA. Yes, but what about me? Let's say, for example, again, Hamburg is a very, very good club, but I don't know. 57 ,000, I think, the stadium holds it. It's a great club. It's a great league, you know, and it's a very transitional league. So, you know, you learn how to defend a lot of chaos, quite a lot. But yeah, no, I said it would have to be a fantastic project that makes so much sense to move in January. But there doesn't seem to be any reason to do right now. His father has already said that he'll be staying at Hamburg until the end of the season.

43:20They seem to be a really intelligent family in terms of how they plan their moves and their careers. They don't get too excited too soon. They seem to be really measured with that. Also, there's a footballing family. I know there's a bit of controversy about his, I don't know if it's his older, if it's his uncle. All right. But there's a player who was banned for some degree. I don't know enough. I shouldn't even brought it up. But there's a player in his family. My point is that the Vuskiewicz family is from football in stock. Yeah, so his father says, until June, he's definitely at HSV, which is Hamburg.

44:02And after that, we will sit down with Tottenham and see what's best. I am extremely satisfied with how he lives and how he trains. I would not like to see him skip steps and go straight to the English Premier League, which I believe is the strongest in the world. There is still plenty of room for growth. And as I'm concerned, it wouldn't be bad if he stayed in Germany. It was his brother, Vuscovic's brother Mario, who also played for Germany. However, he's currently serving a doping ban, which runs until November 26. So his older brother plays in Germany as well. Or Hamburg, no less. So he knows the club, right?

44:34He knows. And that doesn't sound like there's not pressure. It would almost be an uncomfortable situation if the Vuscovic family was going, we want to see him have minutes in the Premier League. Like you said, it seems like they're sensible in their approach to how they're managing him. And there's a lot of learning to do. Yeah, of course. Of course, you know, lots of development still to do. Just because you're doing phenomenally right now doesn't mean that you're going to be the same player at 21 or better at 21. So you've got to do that process correctly. You can't tell the future, but, you know, you want to call it like painting a roadmap of what you want the career to go and try and take all the right steps along that roadmap, appreciating that it's not going to be perfect.

45:16You can't see into the future. but yeah, he's got a lot of developing left to do and patience is key. Again, like I said, I'm not saying that he's not ready to play in the Premier League right now. Like I said, everything points towards that he could well be but we don't know yet and why take the unnecessary, why jump unnecessary steps right now when there's no need to? He's 18, he's doing great. Keep progressing it correctly from what we've seen. The pressure from fans though is it'll be like getting back, getting back and playing. Yeah, but at the end of the day, football clubs don't care about that and they can't care about that.

45:48And at the end of the day, football fans don't know fuck all, do they? Well, also, don't take this the wrong way, but they'll forget about him second the season starts again and they'll focus on the team that play on the weekend. Then they might say a few words if they see Vuzkovic have a great game. It's like, oh, why didn't we get him in this year? It's just, you can't ever please everyone. So you've got to just try and do a smart job with what you've got and plan ahead and go from there. It's interesting as well that his dad also said a lot has been written sorry, a lot has been written about Luka.

46:21More than anything he wants to just stay at Hamburg and play alongside his brother Mario. But that's not up to him. He's under contract with Tottenham and everything will be done in agreement with them. So far, everything has been completely fair because of a respected Luka's opinion. So, it seems amicable and good. Should he be the next coming of Christ and he does eventually become a mainstay at Tottenham centre-back. If you had to lose one to get him in the side... Don't do that to me. I'm going to. Because I'm not suggesting that he is good enough for this to happen. But say the choice, it's a decision that Thomas Frank or whoever the manager next is, has to make.

47:04Or Harry Brook is Tottenham Hotspur manager. And it's just, you cannot ignore this anymore. He has to go... I'm blaming you for this. You're why I keep getting cricket tweets from people. Brook's not Brook. Oh, I've done it again. Sorry. It's your fault. Every day I get one now. I reckon it's you. Mate, he single-handedly won us the fourth test. So you'll have to just hold that. So I have to get rid of one of them. Brooks, yeah. Harry Brooks, so you don't have to get rid of them, but whose place is at most risk? Should Vuzkovic become a member of our first team squad in the summer?

47:44or would you play free? Vuzkovic or back three. I don't see how... I don't see Romero or Vanda then being usurped consistently anytime soon. Potentially back three. Back three. So is he good enough to... Vuzkovic is very good at moving ahead of the ball to receive. So it can almost be like a fake back three kind of thing. I mean that is some back three them three, goodness me that would be something to see Could it be that if he is this good and you have to play the three of them having a manager who can play a back three like an Oliver Glasner for example, what he's done with Lacroix and Mark Gave is already incredible anyway but in able to create a really good defensive unit with players that shouldn't be playing there.

48:40Nathaniel Kline played as a part of a back three for Glasner this season, as did Lerma as well, who's naturally a midfielder. I don't know why I'm talking about Glasner as much, but I'm just saying that if we have three potentially really amazing players that are having a back three, and it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be defensive, especially with the kind of back three that you have there they're all attacking minded aren't they band of enemies so is uh romero definitely so it could be a way of creating a back three to get him in potentially yeah um it's very rare that i would say that um it's worth changing shape for to fit some defenders in um but it depends on what you've got at your disposal now when people say back three managers there's a bit of a there's a bit of nuance to that so every single coach in the world can coach a back three shape.

49:32There's not a manager that can't coach a back three shape. That's not the thing. It's often the other way around where you say sometimes the managers that are welded to one particular shape, but that's not really like that. So, you know, if you've got a team that suits a back three and, you know, a lot of managers would be willing to do that and they can certainly coach it. So it's all about the willingness of the manager to do that. But yeah, there's loads of ways it could be done. Like I said, for me, I build a team on how we attack. That's the priority. because, you know, it's the hardest thing to do.

50:03It's the thing that wins the games. And then you can work out how to structure it and keep that secure afterwards, in my opinion, or as you're going along. I think I don't really believe in this build the fence first because, you know, work out how you're going to score goals and then work back from there. So sometimes that can mean a change in shape. So, but what I would say is, again, to bring it back to this conversation is put it this way. I don't see a world where any of those three would be happy not being a pretty starting XI player next year. Pretty, you know, recognised as one. In a way, it's like if Hamburg wanted to keep him for another year and he's signing...

50:41I wouldn't do that. Okay. Well, no, actually, no, sorry, no, that's a silly thing to say because you don't know unless you know. But I would probably say that, you know, if we're talking about learning experiences, why stay another year where you were proven to be, let's say you carried on as he is. Not that you've ticked that box, but you've proven to be very comfortable with that. let's expose you with a new challenge um that's what i would be doing rather than just having that comfort and familiarity you know we want him to learn um but again that's without me knowing the family and knowing the situation that's a pretty blanket thing to say but generally speaking i'll be like let's go and learn learn and learn different experiences rather than just saying oh that that went really really well let's just repeat that so um you'd want him i think so when When he was at Westerloot, we spoke a lot about this on the podcast because you need something to talk about during the summer.

51:31And we talked about him, definitely another European move is what we widely considered to be the best thing. Then he scored that goal against Reading and was like, no, I mean, let's just keep him. Surely he's incredible. But yeah, when he got that move, it just felt right. It felt like the right next step in his progression. now if you've got Romero and Van der Ven who are not going to sit on the bench they won't be happy to do that and with you know I think it would be fair for them to be slightly disgruntled I know you're supposed to be a part of the squad and that's what you are but they are there are two probably our two best players I would say you're part of the squad and there's no such thing as what's our best starting 11 but you do definitely have starters you have starters right and certain players will know no I'm a starter you can rotate the others you don't rotate me unless it's like like, you know, Carabao Cup for fitness, or you've got to do it for fitness rotation once every now and again.

52:28But the starters know they're starters. And if they're not starting and they're not seeing us that, they're not happy. Well, they've got this leadership group as well they're not going to be happy with. But, you know, what we've got to do, I'm going to move to the end here now, Harry, right, is Hamburg, despite, you know, all of the sort of clamour around Vuscovic and how impressive he's been, the state of Hamburg currently is not precarious you know they're very real risk of being relegated this season they consistently haven't been a good side in Germany and for him to have these sort of highlight reels and these conversations around him and at the start of the show you wouldn't have heard this Harry but I put together a couple of clips of what people have been talking about how they've been talking about him and it's like it's irrespective of the situation that Hamburg find himself in he is sort of transcending sure which is really encouraging from a spurs fans perspective but yeah it's huge it's huge you know being able to learn how to perform in states like that you want to be able to perform i often always say to players this is you know if if you're learning how to become a pro and let's say in academy football and you've only ever been used to like being served in a really really good team you don't always necessarily get the individual education you need like what about when you've got to really take charge yourself you can't rely on others how do you adapt how do you mold how do you how do you work it out you know things like that so um no i think it's great exposure it's great learning from him um try and get him into different environments different ways of doing things understanding that um and no i think it's i think so far right now they've got moves they've got it all correct so far okay um before we leave um i don't know if you have any thoughts on uh the fact that brennan johnson is leaving um but also about what his replacement might look like.

54:22And, you know, Savinho from Man City, you've got Jan Diamande, who we've apparently Leipzig won 100 million euros for. And there's a couple of other players that have been linked that I couldn't tell much about. But what do you make of the situation of Brendan Johnson leaving? Yeah, it's a shame that for me is a player that I'll always, without knowing him again, I always wonder what could have been if he was just able to, whether we don't know if it was worked on or not, we just don't know. If, for example, for the last few years, he never worked on his game in terms of staying on the ball longer, carrying it, 1v1s, things like that, and the club never worked on it, I think it would be a huge waste because if you just add that to a decent level to his game, that becomes an automatic starter at Tottenham.

55:15you know, if it has been worked on and he just hasn't quite got it, or he just hasn't been able to apply it consistently, he's just not how his brain works, fine. And it's probably best right now that, you know, best for all parties that, you know, you go your separate ways and thank you, you'll forever be a legend, you know, winning the trophy and so on. So yeah, that's my honest feedback on it. Again, people always ask me, like, if you could pick one player to work with, I would have loved to have just got my hands on him and just figure out, because I think it's all there. I just would have liked to have known what is, the reason why you're not doing this and is it something that you feel like you can work on and be better at and let's try and make that happen just to see i would love to see that but obviously you know let's see but i mean in terms of servinho i'm gonna guess that you're gonna say just work on odabir um no no not necessarily i think that for me to spend money you have to it's worth doing if you know the player vehemently or drastically improves what you've already got and what you think they might become.

56:19Now, Savino's a very good player. I'm not as big on him as other people. I'm really not. He's good. He's very talented and he's only 21. I'm just not as – I'm bigger on other players ahead of him. So he wouldn't necessarily be the one that I would go for. But I don't have an issue with signing people. I have an issue with signing people that aren't better than what you've already got. Or that, for example, if you worked with this player and gave this player the thing to go on for another year and so on, they would be better than that player or whatever it could be. But you've got to stage this correctly.

56:56So, you know, you should have someone like an Audubit, right? You shouldn't be relying on him to be your number one mainstay right now. Now, you should have a seasoned pro that you can rely on and then Odebeir gets his minutes when he doesn't play, for example. So you have that progression route or whoever, he's just an example, Odebeir, whatever. But Spurs haven't always got the progression routes and the stages of that correct. And that's the issue with like, and that's when you can all of a sudden become reliant on these young players that, you know, you shouldn't have to rely on yet. So, yeah, I think there's a few things that need to change.

57:34So I'm not against signing someone there. I'm just against signing someone that, and yeah, there's a few players that I believe will become or are very special and can become very, very special at Tottenham. So I wouldn't want to disrupt that. I think I know who you're talking about, but I'm not allowed to say. Right. Harry, thank you so much, mate. Pleasure. You're a legend. Remember to go and have a look at Harry's Patreon. And it's not just you, is it? It's a collective with people. Yeah, it's me and my colleague, Richard, so we do everything together. And then we've brought in, like I said, that Rogerio, the former Palmeiras coach who coached Estival, Endrick and all them lots.

58:12So, yeah, hopefully some good knowledge on that, that people can at least get them thinking, if they agree or not, but get them thinking. No, mate, honestly, I haven't spoken to you and, you know, you're showing those clips and the information that comes with it. I do look at the game differently a little bit. I appreciate that. You can see how simple quite a lot of it is, isn't it? It's a different kind of language that you see online and Twitter. So Twitter's full of very detailed, in-depth team analysis, lots of jargon, lots of things. It loses me half of it. Whereas actually, you can see a lot of the times when you actually work with players, a lot of it's simplicity and that's the genius in it.

58:49So, yeah. No, it's great stuff, Harry. Nice one, mate. Thank you so much. Top, man. Two Good & Co coffee creamers are made with farm-fresh cream, real milk, and contain three grams of sugar per serving. That's 40 % less than the 5 grams per serving in leading traditional coffee creamers for a rich, delicious experience. Whether you enjoy your coffee hot, cold, bold, or frothy, Two Good Coffee Creamers make every sip a good one. Two Good Coffee Creamers. Real goodness in every sip. Find them at your local Kroger in the creamer aisle.