THE LAB - Steve Nash & The Fighting Cock - From MVP to COYS

27:31And I wonder if you could kind of think about your career where there'd been huge influences, perhaps you were one of them, where the removal of that player, if he's been traded or if he retired, Did it have an impact on the dressing room? And also, how big is mentality and culture behind the scenes before you get on the court? Because it feels that Spurs have lost the level of mentality and culture. Are those things important in basketball?

27:59Steve Nash:Yeah, they are. I think in every sport. I think Spurs, that's part of why I felt in January, this team's in trouble. It just didn't feel, you know, even the leaders felt panicked, unhappy, unsettled, you know, the quote unquote leaders, best players. So, you know, I think you lose, um, Harry Kane and Sonny and, and then I think the next biggest personality we have and player really is, is James Madison. Um, and he's out for the year. And so I think that really, it's again, back to the perfect storm. Um, and so I think we were in a position here where it just, you know, look, I think again, though, I don't, I agree with everything everyone said, but I do think we, we cut corners on the squad, on the wage structure.

28:51Steve Nash:We never went out and bought that player. I mean, we spent tons of money, but it never felt like to T's point, we had a direction, you know, we never decided like, it's a risk. Like to bring up Thomas Frank, if you, if you don't take a risk, you risk everything. We, we did that to build a beautiful stadium and not a squad in a sense. And so I think without making that investment and paying the wages that other clubs, not in the big six are paying, we're paying less than teams that aren't in the big six, if I'm not correct, paying, spending more of that, whatever that, you know, that gross income or net income, what were we at?

29:28Steve Nash:40 something percent compared to other clubs up to Aston Villa was at 90. I just think it's a risk to, to, to just only, I mean, I felt like we overly concerned ourselves. I think Daniel Levy is a businessman. He was concerned with building the value of this project and the number one priorities was the stadium, the training ground, you know, brand sponsorships, match day revenues, all that's global branding and tours and whatnot. I never felt like we took a serious direction in football, like T said, And I felt like we cut corners with the wage bill, spending 45 % of our revenues, whatever, on the footballing side.

30:12Steve Nash:Like that's just that was too big a risk in my eyes. You know, we were close to being locked in as a top four team for years under Pochettino. If we had to recycle the squad like he had envisioned and it just felt like we could never decide on a direction. And we also we always cut corners financially on the squad. And so that's just where we are now is trying to rebuild this thing. And, of course, it feels like they're willing to spend the money now, break the wage structure. But which is great. But the comedy of errors has come to its, you know. We're paying the price. We're paying the price right now.

30:57Steve Nash:and let's hope we stay up or else it'll be a really, really serious issue. I cannot believe her in this situation. But we took too many risks with the footballing side of it and that's where we are right now. I know I asked you briefly before, but I just wanted to get your idea or what your thoughts are on what might be a lack of culture or what that means in a sporting sense. like how did you know when you were having the best period of your career that the culture was right that you were playing in an environment where you're supported in the right way was it having a coach that was giving you the right messaging was it you had the players around you because because what we what we don't have and what you have Steve when we look at Spurs we look at them a team that shouldn't be anywhere near on paper much better than where we are currently which is 17th place there's something else that's going on there that we would never understand as an because we're not elite sportsmen you was one so what what was in the best parts of your career and perhaps even the most difficult what was the culture like and what was what was perhaps right or wrong in that moment yeah culture is a word you know like a word we all throw it gets thrown around right these days especially but culture also culture is is really is just how you behave right and so you can do all the the thoughtful word exercises about culture but really culture comes from recruiting the top right people you know and that essentially means uh people that are highly competitive love what they're doing are willing to sacrifice for the group and collaborate like that.

32:46Steve Nash:If you can recruit those types of people, you can build a culture is not so important on the coach, I don't think. And in fact, a coach can help make a culture great, but a coach is not very cultural, can be a part of a great culture if you have leaders within. And I think in sport, it's so important to have leaders within a squad. um uh a coach can't lead every day right the player the players have to do the majority of the leading um if that makes sense the coach leads the coach sets the direction the coach you know does all those things but if it's the coach's voice every day that's setting the standard players get tired of it players you know um then the questions come up during tough times but if it's the players if it's harry kane driving the culture which means that he comes every day of training competes and tries to win every single drill, cover every blade of grass.

33:40Steve Nash:Now everyone's looking like, well, our best player is going to try to knife me in the gut to win this little five-a-side scrimmage. I better be up to that standard every day. That doesn't mean you can't have fun and a bit of bench and, you know, have a good time. But if you don't have a competitive group that want to fight together and people's standards are set by the players, a coach can't continually drive standards so it's really about the type of players you recruit as much as anything um i i hope that makes sense because of course a coach can create and can create an environment but they can't drive it on their own every day it has to you know the best type of leadership is self-driven player led uh where a coach can then just pull the strings push buttons and nudge and cajole a team towards a direction.

34:30It felt like Ange used to manage the team like that. Well, that's how he kind of said it in interviews. He was always like, he takes training, but it's his coaches that instills the responsibility on the coaches to take because he can't be there all the time. And he's just drilling the players from one voice, telling them what to do. They're never going to take to it. But then he also had the kind of the senior leadership team. and he said if things happened or there were problems, he would either tell them or give them the initiative and they have to sort it out themselves. Like they should be leading by example and they should be kind of telling the rest of the squad and showing them how you should be behaving at breakfast time or when the bants, when you can have them and when you can have a bit of a laugh and when you need to dial in on game day and stuff like that.

35:21So, and I think a lot of players, it sounded like a lot of players did buy into Ange. Whether or not we should have sacked him or not or anything like that, a lot of the players, when Ange went, they were very kind of kind and did a lot of social towards him and fanging him and stuff like that and spoke very fondly of him. So, I don't know. He seems like he's kind of a winner in that sense.

35:45Steve Nash:Well, he's clearly a winner. He's won everywhere he's been. um yeah i think social media era can be very misleading i don't know i don't know if they totally bought in but i do think you're right about his approach he you know he didn't he didn't speak to the players much i'm you don't have that doesn't have to be your way you could have i actually prefer to have great relationships with everyone to have more equity you know so when you do turn to someone in the 88th minute to get his ass back he he believes in trust and he has that instead of, you know, fuck him. Um, you know, he only worries about himself when you actually have these relationships, then someone knows you care, you have the right motives.

36:24Steve Nash:You always show up. Then you have the equity in the tough moments to either pick someone up and they believe it and they get picked up by you or to say, that's not on, let's go. You got to, you know, get back or whatever it may be. Um, you know, so I have a slightly different thought and approach, but that doesn't mean one's better than the other. But I, what I'm, what I'm trying to say is that he had his approach his approach was about instilling confidence belief play make mistakes um which i think there's validity in that i think that's in a sense like what in a nutshell what's benton core under frank and under deservey yeah he's just a player who's playing with confidence it's not like he changed he developed in the last three months right he's a player who's able to someone's told him like you're a gifted footballer you keep the ball you you set the tempo you get us out of jams you ask for it in tough positions because that's going to draw defenders and we're going to be out the other side that you know that was clearly not the mandate under frank and i'm not getting into tactics and all that in this example i'm just saying there's no way this player is the same player under frank it's all confidence and it's all direction i thought this player I thought Bentancourt was done I thought that the ACL were done for him but would never see the player that was playing under Conte and and definitely back like it's strange I mean it's mad what some words from a new coach some new messaging can do for a player like it's transformed him um and I'm really excited I mean should we stay up and I hope by god we will um just what does Erbi can create, what kind of culture that he can create and what he can bring out of those players.

38:10As well as, you know, you were talking about the leadership team. Steve, you mentioned this as well, but Ricky, you just said, you know, who that leadership team was. It was Madison, it was Sonny, it was Vicario. I think it was one of them. Romero. Was it Romero? Yeah, because he was the vice-captain running. Yeah, okay. So you've got one left. Romero on one day is an impeccable centre-back on another day as a fucking maniac so i'm not sure if that is how that is to lead for example like harry kane wasn't a great orator but he showed on the pitch and in training over and over again this is how you this is the standard that we need to set at the football club and on a football pitch you can probably hide a little bit on a football pitch whereas on a basketball pitch you can't but there's only five players on each side if you're not pulling your weight if you're not tracking back it's immediately evident isn't it you can't yeah i mean i think you

39:06Steve Nash:can find a way to hide in any sport in a sense but i think what happens is when you have players like harry kane you have a confidence and a belief because you you he has that confidence and belief that it we could be under it here but one moment he drops deep and he puts the right ball through and we score or one moment the ball drops to him he gets a half yard of spaces in the top corner so when he has that belief you believe and it transmits through the team i think our team for the first once the injuries started piling up like really once kudos got hurt you know the style of play we had no outlet anymore like i think look i'm not defending thomas frank here but maybe things were different if you had matters and kulisewski and kudos and you know maybe now now we're not so just huff it to kudos and hopefully he can hold off three people and then what happens to a team when you know that gets a bit stale other teams are protect they're playing against you if knowing that and then he gets hurt and now what a team just is like now what right and so you can imagine their confidence draining in a sense and um so this is just me referring my thoughts of playing sport but uh you can see how confidence could go and whereas when a coach like Ange or like Deserby wants you to keep it.

40:28Steve Nash:One, you defend better because you're not always getting – it's not always coming back down your throat. And two, you have a chance to express yourself. You have a chance to connect with each other. And you have a chance to actually get in the final third in a positive way rather than just pressing. So I think there's a belief that is reformed after it had just – and like I said, a lot of it was injuries, not just the choices and style of play. but it feels like I mean look the injuries are still there but there's enough belief now that we feel like we can get a result definitely T Kane is is up for a Ballon d 'Or this year which is quite difficult to do the basketball equivalent would be the MVP with Steve Nash obviously won twice back to back how difficult is that even though Shaka's salty

41:25i've seen i've seen the clips of uh giving you grief yeah it's over one um how how difficult so people not everybody at home listening to this steve will know much so i hope this doesn't make you feel awkward but what how difficult and rare is it to win back-to-back mvps tea is it is it something that is easily done you're asking me or steve well i'm asking you first and then hopefully Steve can embellish. No, it's not. It can be a bit of a popularity contest sometimes when in the MVP. I think the Ballon d 'Or is a little difficult because with the Ballon d 'Or you've got the World Cup, which is this year.

42:06should France win the World Cup, for example, and PSG win the Champions League, maybe Ousmane Dembele goes back to back if he scores in the final, for example. In the NBA, you've got the regular season MVP and you've got the finals MVP. So in a sense, it depends. Some people might value the finals MVP a bit more because some people just kind of coast through the season, get the MVP, and then they kind of fall off in the playoffs. And with basketball, there's only one... I don't know what you're saying. So is it good or not winning the MVP? It is good, but the point I'm getting to is that in basketball, there's only one title.

42:44In football, you can win the league, Champions League, World Cup. Gotcha, yeah. so Steve Nash didn't win the ring as a player and people might try and play him down on that but in football there's much more opportunities to win you know what I mean I would say more opportunities to win yeah so I think I put them both on a level but I think with the Ballon d 'Or it depends on what players you like if it's a valuable thing because obviously you've got the Ronaldo Messi and social media wars and in the NBA now you've got someone like Nikola Jokic who's won, I think he's won one and he's like finished second place loads of times and people say well he should have won more but in 20 years the history will remember that he only won it once so i don't know i guess people

43:27Steve Nash:have yeah i think he's won it two or three times but t i think you described the award really well there um it's they're both subjective ballon d 'or and and mbmvp but you're right it's different like in football you go like there's there's a bunch of trophies you know like in basketball like no one really cares. I shouldn't say that, but like we play 82 games. It's too many games. It's a, it's a TV revenue model that makes everyone a lot of money, but it's, it's not a great sporting model. And so, especially the games only gotten faster with analytics, like just like football has. And football is a similar issue.

44:00Steve Nash:They play too many games as well. So T did a good job explaining that they are both subjective, but the NBA, there's only one out of 30 teams, one team wins the one trophy a year essentially so uh it is it is slightly different backdrops to the award but again they are there is there is context there's narratives there's all sorts that go into it and so um similar to about Ballon d 'Or really how how did you win it though those two years Steve like what what was it you did was it just is it just standing out was it flair or Was it being the best player in the league? How do you – I would never say I was the best player in the league.

44:46Steve Nash:Like I was never as good as Kobe Bryant or Tim Duncan. But I think my impact, you know, those two years and the third year, one of my best friends, Dirk Nowitzki, won it. I think I was runner-up. And that was probably my best season, to be honest with you. um but i guess i came to a i came from dallas to phoenix on a team that i think had won like 26 games 27 games and we won 62 out of 82 or 63 out of 82 the next year and you know i was the only kind of change to the team and led the league in assists and was a very efficient shooter and i'm just patting myself on the back here but was a you know someone that could would close games like scored the end of games when we needed it so i think you add that up and and that was what you know those those are the factors that probably put me in that position uh but a lot of it you know it goes down to how you fit with your team the role your coach gives you the responsibility and so there's a you know again very contextual very subjective very much like the ballon d 'or in a way i mean it's uh it's a it's an opinion not a fact yeah and i guess it's like just because when i'm sort of on a very surface level thinking about your career and about our very own sort of harry kane's career is like sort of unfancied young prospect who worked hard and and proved his worth and developed as a player through uh you know playing for his side to become super valuable valuable to you know i think kane was arguably the best player in the premier league at times so it's just it's just interesting the parallels the fact that you're a big spurs fan and and there's a similar story with with harry kane um and you know and it's unfortunate that he's had to to leave tottenham to go and actually realize his potential but it's that's all i was that's all i was trying to get out really i guess i'd say i'd say mbps definitely harder or more prestigious.

46:51And Steve, you've done it back to back, mate. Come on. You've got to talk that stuff up. Let's go. And you're on the fighting cock now. How great can life be? Three.

47:01Steve Nash:How many interviews have been on the fighting cock? Come on. None. None. Exactly. None of the world. Harry Kane's brother used to listen to the fighting cock. That's as close as we've got to Harry Kane. Degrees of separation. yeah um so so what do you think of what are laying when you've been there steve like you've i know you were you you were there recently um this is the thing that blows people's minds by the way um is when i said no steve steve nash so you talked to steve nash not really but he said you want to meet for a pint before west ham and they went what what are you talking steve nash do you want to meet for a pint i was like yeah i promise you look he's gonna meet me of that for a pint um that's what it blows my mind but so i know you've been there recently but what like what do you make of the stadium and your experiences because and what's it like to watch spurs in the flesh compared to on tv in the middle of the night yeah i mean um it's you know there's always something missing when you when you're uh as my as my cousin lee and enfield says the colonial kids um there's always something missing when you're uh um you know you're not in the in the middle of it all but uh yeah we we're going over as kids and i we used to go to the old white heart lane when we were kids when we got to a certain age once in a while when we were there in a winter and whatnot and so we got that experience when we were young and there's nothing quite like it uh do you remember any games from back then that you went to do you can you think of any i can't remember you know i do remember things like going to a game when i was kid and also not being allowed to go to a game if i can remember right uh my dad didn't think we should go to see liverpool this is back when it was standing it was dating there was trouble and the liverpool game he's like i think that's a bit much and uh what years was it was you thinking yeah so i'm 52 so i would say this is like the eight eighty yeah two three four five six seven eight a different different sport yeah do you remember what players uh do you remember what players you first saw because um obviously you're a massive fan of um glenn hoddle and he was kind of in this pomp during your childhood did you ever get to see him play in the flesh yeah uh i think at least once um yeah he what year did he leave he left in 87 yeah i got to see him at least once if not more um he was my he was my hero he was my first it really is my first hero So my dad just – What was it like meeting him?

49:35Because obviously you grew up watching Spurs. Obviously you're an NBA superstar. Now you get access to all these great players. What was it like meeting him?

49:45Steve Nash:So I only met him when I was about eight, nine years old, the old training ground. My cousin and I went over there to like get autographs. I think there's a picture on my Instagram of me and my cousin Lee with Glenn after training, getting our thing signed. I've never met him since then. He sent a message.

50:12Steve Nash:Sorry. I never met him as a person, but I do Amazon Prime NBA coverage now, and they had him do a video for me as a surprise. I remember that, yeah. That was awesome. Yeah, it was cool. Yeah. I always think it's like crazy because I've seen an interview with you before saying that your first sporting hero was Glenn Hoddle. And like T said, like NBA megastar. And it's like your first sporting, Glenn Hoddle, Tottenham's Glenn Hoddle. And it just blows my mind. It's like I can't get my head around it. It's just so strange. Yeah, no, I know. I mean, like I said, I grew up in a British household. My dad, my granddad, that side of the family is all from Tottenham, really.

51:00Steve Nash:My mom's from Swansea and moved to London when she was 10, 11 years old. I found out the other day, I thought she grew up in Tottenham as well when she moved over, but I think they bounced around. But when I would go over there as a kid, her mom and dad, my grandparents lived in Tottenham for a while. But anyways, at least one side of the family is all spurs crazy and lived in Tottenham until they moved out. automatic upbringing steve to go from from i know that they were at tottenham but then you obviously were born in as a family moving to every corner of the earth pretty much you know um and then for for for tottenham to somehow be in the great club we are still have such an imprint on you through your father and your brother your brother was a pro footballer as well wasn't he or at least the yeah my brother played for stockport um when they were in the championship uh he started against middlesboro in the coca-cola cup semi-final once wow yeah he played for canada 35 times one there's a competition over here called the gold cup and they beat colombia and mexico won the gold cup once when he played for canada um he uh he he trained he was he went as my granddad wrote into spurs and said can my grandson come trial and i think back in the day that the the common thing was to say yes and they'd give you a week or whatever and my brother went they kept him for two months i think and uh he actually scored a goal for spurs first team um wow when it was an international week it was about the time when we had the uh you know what the old dimitrescu and uh yeah it was like yeah everyone was away on uh international duty and they played reading and uh so i don't know how it was if it was different then because it sounds weird now i don't but it was a friendly and there was fans i believe and uh he came on as a sub and scored to get a draw and i think it was i think it was steve perryman or ozzi or dillis were the manager I can't remember now because I know they replaced each other.

53:12Steve Nash:And the boss said, thanks, Martin. You just saved my job for another week. And I believe his strike partner, I think his strike partner was Sol Campbell. Oh, God. Yeah, it might have been. It might have been. I think they were still playing him all over the place. Yeah. he started when he came break through as a striker and then they moved into the center back i remember him scoring i don't know why i'm talking about him i don't know why you brought him up steve i'm sorry i thought it'd be a weird trivia thing i didn't mean to like uh

53:51um so why why what happened why went why didn't you go to the football was your first love football and then basketball or did you realize you were just great at basketball and that was your thing

54:00Steve Nash:No, I love football. I was a good young player. I'm sorry to brag, but I played good. My dad played – another funny connection. My dad played in the conference. He played at Ware. And he actually basically was the incumbent. He replaced Glenn Hoddle's dad at Ware. It's funny. Back in the day, they made a couple – I mean, 100 pounds or a couple hundred pounds a week or something to play on a weekend or whatever. and then uh he played professionally in south africa played against bobby moore down there and had a good experience but uh you know went to an all you know obviously a all-boys school in tottenham and he was really small my dad and he at 16 so all every player on his school team signed professional forms except for him and then he grew after it was over so he ended up kind of having a you know kind of a football adventure but uh for me i put my first word i say that to say my first word was goal love the game you know both footed because my dad kicked it to my left foot every time in the backyard and if i ran around it he said i'm going to go inside if you run around it again so okay okay okay okay so you know um and uh and you know just always out there playing with my brother but we grew up in the west coast of canada so we also played ice hockey baseball box lacrosse in the summers and so we played everything um and it just wasn't like it's different if you grew up in london the inspiration is all around you if you grew up in canada the inspiration around you really is hockey and some baseball um now it's different you know with the internet and um a whole bunch of factors but so i but i didn't really play basketball until i was 13 and um went to a new school and all the kind of jocks playing on the playground were playing basketball and it was the same time that michael jordan kind of broke on the scene had the first Air Jordan ones and it was kind of this really romantic time to get into basketball and so friends at a new school Jordan the Air Jordan shoes the commercials with Spike Lee kind of just swept me up in it and the way you would if you were in London and uh yeah in Glen Hoddle or Ginola or someone's there was similar commercials do you remember the um do you remember the world cup the nike world cup adverts that night yeah just a way of of creating this idea and building superstars and individuals you know what we don't have and i don't know if this is the same in basketball but football as you you'll know is the mercurial talents that existed that might not be the very best players in the league but there was something magical about them just doesn't seem to exist anymore like david jenner for example is that he probably would never been able to get anywhere near a Pep Guardiola team or Matt Letizia.

56:53But they brought magic to the pitch. And yeah, Nike was a big part of that, creating that. Do you remember the Cantona advert where he flips his collar and stuff? It's just a shame that those sort of personalities are gone. Is that the same in basketball as well? Do you think it's gone too data-driven and football's become data-driven and individual flair has been taken out of it?

57:14Steve Nash:I would say individual flair is... That's a good question. Not maybe as much as football. I think the game has changed in a way now through analytics. And I think that's the same as football. We know too much. So we change the game to suit the odds. And so in the NBA, for example, we play faster and we shoot a lot more three-pointers and we value rim attempts like shots at the basket and three-pointers over everything else. And so you try to coach the players. Maybe the star players have the right to take more license to where they shoot and all that. But the – so they've both been influenced by analytics, data and coaching, the youth setup.

58:02up i i think also kids are overcoached um um i think kids are overcoached they don't play enough

58:09Steve Nash:informally anymore and that's part of the you know the structure is too it's too rigid uh in a sense so i you can see people talk about it now i wonder in football i wonder if they're overcoming it at all um yeah i think they're talking about with italy for example right now how they don't have any dribbly wingers or number 10s and whatnot. So I think basketball, you still have, I think with, you have to have someone that can create in basketball. And I think why basketball's had that maybe less impact on that is because, because of the analytics, because of the way that drives the offense and the defense, the way to win is to have a great player that can create.

58:53Steve Nash:And so I think that's maybe the slight difference. Whereas in football, you can kind of drown out the great player through tactics in a way yeah i watch a game of basketball now and we're coming to the end now steve you're i'm sure you'll be grateful but but um i can't believe the skill and dexterity to it it's unbelievable the speed at which i'm i was watching some highlights videos of you right and you've you've done something the ball's gone around the back and you flung it to a player you weren't even looking at how the hell do you know he was there how did he know that you were going to pass it to him like what like how how does that chemistry happen you're not looking at him you're throwing the ball over your shoulder and he's got it and just put it in the net he didn't do exactly what you're going to do is this drills or is this chemistry or do you talk to each other what yeah it looks like magic it's a bit of everything it's Same with cane or matters or, you know, playing a ball with the right weight, spin, directory, you know, trajectory that just lands perfectly in someone's path or on their foot.

1:00:03Steve Nash:I think it's just from years of playing and seeing the patterns develop and seeing bodies, language and someone turn his hips the wrong way and there's my window and whatever it is. you know so some of it is is taught but most of it is just refined over playing hours and hours and hours of basketball as a kid and then in high school and college and pro and you know you just end up if you keep going and going and going you've played so much you have an understanding of where everybody is and what they're doing and who's paying attention who's not where the pockets of space are all those things so um yeah i think some of that we we say you know like a maverick or whatever.

1:00:42Steve Nash:And that's true, there are Mavericks. But a lot of that's just that Mavericks just kept playing and had an impetus to play that way and try things and take risks for years and years and years until you go, how do they do that? Well, they've been doing it for 15, 20 years since they were 6, 7, 8 years old. T, I've got a question. Is it easier to become a truly great basketball player or is it easier to become a truly great football player? I think there's fewer avenues in basketball because if there's only one league, I would say basketball is probably a little bit more difficult. In football, you've got the top five leagues in Europe, and you can come from any continent in the world and make a go of it in Europe.

1:01:22So the percentages are higher, but I think with the NBA, and even the EuroLeague is getting better now as well. So maybe with the next 10, 15 years, the EuroLeague may not be on the same level as the NBA, but it'll get a lot closer. where maybe you'll have players who have another path. Players who don't get taught about the NBA in Steve Nash's era would just be, I don't know, playing China, be forgotten about. Now these guys are superstars in Europe and in parts of Asia as well. So I'll tell you basketball is a bit more difficult just because the NBA is the absolute goal. If they're making the Premier League, they can go La Liga or Liga and then still be.

1:02:02Steve Nash:You can't reason with the sun. Trust us, we've tried. This summer, it's time to put that angry ball of fire on mute. Columbia's OmniShade technology is engineered to protect you from the sun's harsh rays that can burn and damage your skin. The sun is relentless, but so is our gear. Level up your summer at Columbia.com to spend more time outside and less time slathering on aloe lotion. You're welcome. Columbia. Engineered for whatever. Okay. Good plan. All right. That was quite diplomatic. but I appreciate that. Ricky, what's harder, football or basketball? I am going to say basketball, for sure.

1:02:45It is. It doesn't make any sense. Yeah. When I win football, there's so much space. There's so much time. You can play a pass. You know, there's formations. In basketball, it just looks like mayhem to me. And if you're not tall, it's a problem too. And if you're not tall as well, yeah. Luka Modric was five foot six and the best player in the world.

1:03:05Steve Nash:yeah i would i would say that you uh the truth is basketball's challenges are there's really one top league so you have to be in the top 400 or so players in the world to get there what he's saying is true i mean nba is actually trying to take over nba europe create nba europe instead of the euro league to make it bigger because it's stagnant the players haven't stagnated but the the business the the brand is stagnated a bit. I would say this, the more people play football. So football is more challenging in that way. So it's not just fair to say, well, there's top five leagues and there's only one in basketball, but more people around the world play football.

1:03:41Steve Nash:I would say, you don't have to be, you know, six foot to seven, five to play football. Having said that, that's a two-sided coin, right? Like everyone plays football. So you can be brilliant at five, seven very difficult to do that in the nba so it's harder in the nba because you have to have the size as well but it's harder in football because you're competing with every other five six seven eight person on the planet in a sense so i don't know that there's an answer to it i would say football is the world's game and to get to the very very top um like for example we the premier league is the best league in the world but it's it doesn't have all the best players There's players on Madrid and Barcelona and around that are also, you know, the top, top 10, 20, 30 players in the world.

1:04:28Steve Nash:So it's NBA and the Premier League is similar. NBA and the Champions League is very similar in a sense. But you can see where I'm going with this is that just slightly different backdrops and global kind of fan bases and how many people play and how size is a factor and which is a double-edged two-sided coin, so to speak. yeah um you you mentioned it was it uh your uh one of the players you'd most like playing with was it dirk nowatsky nevitsky i'm sorry i'm sorry um you had a good relationship didn't you on the pitch there was a on the court there was good chemistry but what yeah was was that based how did you create that um like because i'm thinking about huminson and i'm thinking about harry kane they had an understanding of each other's game.

1:05:20Was it similar for you with Durkhan and other players that you've created great relationships with? Is it through being friends? Is it understanding each other? Why is it some players that you met, you were able to create a partnership with better than others?

1:05:37Steve Nash:So I think it's a number of factors. I mean, we're still really close friends. Our families are friends. We're a great combo in that there's a part of basketball It's like a pick and roll or a two-man game where two players try to manipulate the defense. And we played in that together where I handled the ball. He'd set a screen for me. I'd come off and then the defense has to make decisions and I could try to pick him apart. And with his – he was one of the all-time greats. And so with his shooting and seven-footer who could really shoot and could create space for himself, we had a great partnership.

1:06:07Steve Nash:But we also had a great friendship. I don't think you have to have the great friendship. you know it's it's like it's like um sunny and cane they just they played complementary positions one was a winger uh that could you know beat a man and put it in the box the other one could drop deep and put it behind for a winger who likes to run behind so they had this you know symbiotic relationship that just caused danger and havoc on defenses so it's very similar in that respect uh and you can imagine through the years how many of those relationships they weren't best friends um even ifst kane and sunny were really close friends you could i don't know darren anderton and uh les ferdinand or whatever i don't i don't know if they even overlapped that long or what but like what they did were they going out on friday nights together no but he probably put the ball in his head a few times so i think it doesn't have to be great friends but you you have to love playing with them and play complementary positions and have similar ideas and an understanding of what someone likes to do where they like it where you can find create space for them or them for you it's like me and ricky in podcasting like you and rick exactly exactly the same who's the creative spark and who's the uh who's the prolific scorer oh well now i feel now i feel why it is awkward when i said why are you like luca modric let's uh no but you could see when you're playing that you're like you're amazing um like we kind of i've sort of run out of stuff um questions and stuff but there are other things i i didn't put the running order there is a picture of you steve and when i say your nose looks demolished it is a horrible photograph what Do you know, T, do you know what I'm talking about?

1:08:05No.

1:08:08Steve Nash:Yeah, I've had a bunch of facial nose a few times. Was you a bit of a bleeder on the pitch? Hole in the lip, all that sort of stuff. Eye closed. It happens sometimes. Yeah, that one I think is the one. We were in the playoffs with San Antonio, and I bumped heads with Tony Parker, and my nose was bleeding. and I come off the salt line the trainer tries to like stitch it up or plaster it or whatever and he couldn't get it to stop bleeding so you can't be bleeding in the game so he put me back in blood would seep through it take me back really what we should have done is I should have gone in the back got a couple stitches in it come back out and it would have saved the back and forth but I think essentially it looked like a dog's breakfast because I'd um you know tried to they tried to patch it like three times I kept coming in and out of the game it definitely didn't stop bleeding i'm looking at the picture now there's like blood everywhere it looks like they put a sort of i don't know a bit of um bandage on your nose and go on go on in steve go and win us the game

1:09:11why wasn't he just taken off well why didn't you go all right i mean i'm game and right obviously i want to win but my nose is shattered here maybe i should maybe go to the doctor or

1:09:22Steve Nash:You can't really do that. You got to – I mean, you could, I guess. But, you know, you let your team down, fans down. You're in the playoffs. That was a tight game. And so you need that. We needed that game. So you got to give it everything you have to stay out there. But, yeah, sometimes you just – when that stuff happens, stuff like that happens. And I remember one time it happened. I got elbowed in here and I basically had a hole in here. We were on the road. and uh the guy actually they took me back and luckily the doctor they was in indiana and he had a great he was great at like i don't know if there was a plastic surgeon or something of whatever reason he did a bang up job like keep minimal scarring but it took him like more than half the game and our trainer was like he's doing this on purpose and i like kept me back there for an hour he said he was a star and play yeah and you're playing 82 games a year a season that's a regular season how many yeah that's just a regular season we've got the playoffs after that and how long does that last how many get more games in the playoffs the playoffs is four rounds best of seven so um you know i never made the finals i made the semi-finals four times i think and so yeah first round is best of seven so there's 82 games and then there are potentially 28 on top of the 82 so you're playing every three days Yeah.

1:10:48Steve Nash:So, I mean, yeah, I mean, when I played in the NBA, you basically played just under a game every other day for six months. And of course, in the States, you know, you're on an airplane for every game and it's time zones and all that. So it's too much, really. It's too much. the playoffs is a little easier because you're basically you get two home games and you go away for two games and you come back for one then there for one then home for one so it's a little more like controlled um but uh yeah it's a different thing i mean i'm not saying it's harder than football football has its own you know challenges they play so many games now the pace the amount of ground you cover all that stuff they're just they're both just they you know they've been commercialized to where you play too much right would you i've got to ask a question sorry have you heard the conspiracy about the retracting pitch um steve saying there's what do you what do you make of that my i i think that's a tricky one i it absolutely could be a factor i don't know enough about it to say i think like for example um like for example javi did his knee on the road did the home games he played in play a part he wasn't actually playing a lot before it happened so like how much did those did that play a part i have heard a player say that the pitch does feel a little hollow like you know if you play down the park you're on the earth you know if you play it it can feel a little bit hollow um and that might have been one person's opinion but um it could be a factor but i think it would be hard to say that is the reason we've had all these injuries especially because you only play half your games at home guys don't play all their games they train five days a week on a proper you know ground so it's only a portion of your game so i don't know i'd have to be told more to really believe that that's the leading factor in this because this is i mean our injury crisis has been outrageous yeah yeah it's been mental and I don't believe it so I don't think that it could be the pitch I think how can it we played for three years without an injury crisis on the same pitch the women play on the pitch the kids play on the pitch so I agree Ricky thinks it's the pitch look at his face he can tell it yeah he wants to blame the pitch you want some explanation for what's going wrong so what are you going to say what's the problem it's the pitch it can be nothing but the pitch it's the only explanation we've got to rip up this whole fucking pitch there's no other explanation apart from the retractable pitch that's all I got because I've said to him I've said to you Ricky so many times how can it be the pitch because X Y and Z and you like you look at me and go yep yep yep and then three weeks later he's back in the whatsapp grave I think it's the pitch it's not the fucking pitch Ricky every time with a fucking pitch it is the pitch it might be I hope it ain't the pitch just to say that steve was saying about um traveling you're playing the game every two days three days could you imagine getting on an airplane across the states two or three days that's what when you said that oh no i'm not you're you're thinking about fatigue steve you're thinking about the impact on the body me and ricky are thinking about what if there's a the plane turns into a fireball in the sky yeah how are you getting on a plane every two or three days and not worrying the fact that it's not going to crash i don't i can't even get a plane to south spain which is two hours from where i live in london without thinking for months beforehand this is going to be the plane that goes down i hate it so i don't know how you do it yeah it's a very human thing you never feel that way when you get in a car but a car it's much more likely as you know to yeah get in a collection i think you know you get used to it um you know it's interesting we we played a lot of not a lot but a couple few times a year you'd play four and five nights four games five nights could be in three different time zones um those are always uh always interesting you know the fourth night in the fourth city out of five um yeah just trying of like that's all about will and uh and pride at that point how how long how long might a typical basketball game last uh NBA games are 48 minutes a FIBA game is 40 minutes so an international like an Olympics game uh European Euroleague game uh would be 40 NBA is 48 minutes 12 minute quarters and how long are you on the court and you're working and using energy yeah I would say like starters typically play in the 30s you know some are mid-30s 36 probably is 34 to 36 is probably your typical starters range in the playoffs you play a little bit more and when you say you start is that your you're starting every game or you managed like how typically you have a starting five like you're starting 11 but yeah you will have one or two guys drop in and out depending on injuries or or matchups similar to football in that way just obviously less variance and obviously injuries must be massive because you're playing so often it feels like injuries to spurs are hugely they dictate our season they have the last three surely like players are getting injured all the time in basketball yeah it's um it's definitely gotten that way i don't feel like players were injured i don't have any data to back this up but i don't think it was as bad when i played or even before felt like you know typically team got through the season their guys played yeah guys would get hurt they'd come back once in a while you'd get a guy that'd be out for the year but that was rare nowadays because of the analytics you know evolution play the games played faster they want to play against the defense that's not back and set up so they try to beat you down the floor play against a broken defense and so that speed and players shoot from farther out now.

1:16:54Steve Nash:So the distance you have to close. Like if someone drives to the basket, it's like the winger beats the fullback and the center back comes over. You know, say Premier League players were elite at shooting from the other sideline. You know, you can imagine the center back shift over, the other opposite back shifts over, then the ball gets clipped all the way to the other sideline and that's a threat now to score. And that wingback's got to sprint back out all the way out there to stop him from shooting. So because players can shoot from farther out, the space you have to cover, the demands, the acceleration, decelerations, it really adds up cumulatively.

1:17:29Steve Nash:So I think a lot of, a lot feels like there's more injuries and it feels like the championship is really much more, is much more dependent on injuries and health now. You know, the healthiest team typically wins or one of the healthy teams typically wins because, you know, if you lose your best player or a top two or three player, you know, it's, it's almost impossible to win the whole thing when you're 52 you said i'm 44 do you remember the mega drive mega drive sega mega drive sega mega drive what was that what would have been called sega genesis sega genesis the genesis the video game yeah do you remember bulls versus blazers you probably playing basketball when I was playing honestly I wasn't much of a gamer alright so it's just saying I'm sad I wasn't sad when I was a kid that's what you're saying what a dork I mean you would have called him a dork over there wouldn't you that's what NBA guys do now they take their consoles around the country and play games I'll just say that was my only entry to basketball and it stopped it began and ended with Bulls vs.

1:18:39Blazers playing Jordan Scottie Pippen and that's what I remember from

1:18:44Steve Nash:was that Double Dribble? Double Dribble played Double Dribble from downtown NBA Jam NBA Jam shit is another thing NBA Jam okay

1:18:58I was going to finish on this and Steve you don't have to answer but this is a question for T to finish hang on hang on I've got one more question man I've been waiting Steve one of my favorite videos of uh like a kind of top of experience is of you and it's the champions league semi-final ajax you're watching the final minutes whistle glow goes and then you sprint out of this out of the studio and then um you come back and i'm like the other presenters are kind of commentating on you and they're like he's tearing up he can't believe it and the camera cuts to you and it looks like the wind's been taken out your sails you're bent over your hands on your on your nose and you're like trying to collect yourself and your eyes are watering and i'm like shit man this guy he he actually he actually the amount of people that come to tottenham and you know i love it right i love it anyone hollywood celebrity whatever i support Tottenham uh my great great someone supported but I was like this guy he fucking feels it look at him and I was like this because I have a folder on Twitter of those celebrations against Ajax that once a year I'll go back to and I'll re-watch all the celebrations of everyone and I and I'll watch yours back where were you what what was what was happening at the time because I only have that

1:20:31Steve Nash:clip i don't have the context of before or after sure so um when i retired i didn't really want to do and now i'm doing basketball and tv but i didn't want to do tv i didn't want to coach i didn't want to i wanted a break and all that and then someone asked if i would do champions league coverage um you know they're still trying to grow the game here burner tnt got the rights here and they said look maybe a player from another sport that loves soccer can help bring more people into football and uh so i was like wow that's who's gonna when's that gonna be on the table again so yeah i'm into it and one of my best friends here is uh is a guy named stew stew holden you guys might remember him stewart holden he american played for bolton yeah yeah yeah yeah he will definitely remember it man yeah one of my um closest friends and uh we we play football together twice a week and have a great, you know, have a, have a good time.

1:21:25Steve Nash:And, um, so they asked us to do this with, uh, you know, obviously with other people. Um, and so he said, yeah, that sounds like a laugh. We'll do it. So we, uh, we did it. So we're in studio covering the Champions League. Spurs are playing it. Was it maybe Tim Howard was in studio that day? You know, Kate Abdo, Abdo, she does a Champions League here. Um, anyways, uh, so Kate, I think it was tim or maybe moa do uh played at rangers i think sunderland or middlesbrough anyways a few of them in the studio and i just i just you know you know you guys know what it's like and so when the goal went in i just went i lost it and just went running through the halls of this studio

1:22:11Steve Nash:like no idea where i'm going i've lost it's just like oh just literally pulling hamstrings and everything and i finally like ran around this whole floor this massive um complex and i came back and i started to calm down and like i gotta go back in we're gonna go on tv now and so uh I came back in the studio and like, just, just like, you know, the tears are coming and they're, they're obviously recognize that my wife's still like, didn't cry when any of our kids were born. You know, and yeah, I tried to compose myself, but yeah, I don't know about you guys, but obviously, you know, we go through a little bit as Spurs fans.

1:22:52Steve Nash:There's a little bit of a pent up stuff in there. And then there's also, I'm sure it's similar. Maybe you guys can relate. It's like, it's my granddad, my dad, my cousins my brother yeah yeah and so like you feel it makes me want to tear up now you feel all that 50 years of supporting this team and you know arguing with your cousins about it and all the the tough times we've been through and so uh to actually do something like that like if you had asked me weeks a month a year before that if spurs would go to the champions league fun in my lifetime probably would have said no yeah we've been fine with it and so to actually be there and do it and do it in that fashion just the relief the connection the family the history uh the family that we left in a sense you know all of our cousins were the only but really the only colonials the only ones that left and so everyone's over there and you miss out on all that you get to see them you go over there once a year and if you're lucky sometimes you miss them for years and it just you know it's just uh you can't tell sometimes where the emotion is hidden yeah yeah that was my question ricky uh what what one more as well you just mentioned uh the kids and uh you didn't cry when they were born how are your kids about supporting tottenham uh is it one of those things where it's like you know you're young do what you want i don't really want you to feel the pain that I have or it's kind of like this is our thing my kids don't like football so whatever you say Steve is fine yeah I am now they they only have it they only get one club they get spurs I actually I'm a I'm from the west coast of Canada so I'm and I'm a minority owner of the Vancouver Whitecaps in the MLS and I am a minority owner in Real Mallorca in La Liga so they we have three teams spurs Whitecaps and Mallorca but the spurs the spurs is different it's It's in the – it goes back generations.

1:24:56Steve Nash:And so, yeah, my kids, they get their Spurs kits. Do they like it? They feel a connection to it. But like my daughters aren't into football, but they – if football ever comes up, yeah, we're Tottenham fans. My 15-year-old, not really into it, but he knows. He knows who the team is. My 8-year-old is into football, loves it, plays. and it's interesting because I wonder if this is similar with kids there but it's, there's so many choices for kids, he loves it, he knows the players he has the kits, he wants to play in the backyard but he watches for five minutes and then he buzzes off, then he'll watch for a few more minutes and buzzes off, I don't know if it's the same there, I'm sure there's obsessive kids but at eight years old it feels like they have so many options nowadays and their attention spans are so short Steve, do you not look at them and go oh god, I wish I could do that after five minutes of watching Spurs play I wish I could run off and go and bounce on a space hopper or something that that do you know what I mean it's so much better it's really weird because I feel like I should know better but I feel like they have no choice they have to understand and love this club no you're right and at the same time I I it's like it's like selective memory you know I just when I have that feeling it's like a woman who's had a baby and then wants to get pregnant again i forgot all about the uh they say that yeah my wife said that yeah and so it's the same thing when i say when i think about football my kids gotta love spurs i forget all about the shit they put us through um i've got actually one final question um and that so have you ever steve i don't know if you can disclose any of this but have you ever been part of a consortium or part of any conversation about the acquisition of any premier league football club i.e tottenham mutter yeah uh once or twice people have asked it feels like the one or two times it's been brought to my attention.

1:27:13It was, I'd already knew the game here

1:27:17Steve Nash:and it felt like the other people that had tried to get in there had basically said that Levy loves to entertain this. He's never doing it. Really? And so when a couple of people came to me i kind of said oh that's great good luck and uh didn't really get involved but kind of knew like this is it's not happening this is a valuation and uh so the valuation was too high but you love to have the conversation to drive it higher i in a way right like there's interest there's a market people want it they'll he'll take you to the finish line and then right before we get done it's it's uh you know the deal kind of changes or it's i'm not interested or the value goes up and all sorts so that's kind of the experience i've heard from business people who have tried to to get that conversation going you know there's very very various stages of interest um entertained but never really entertained if that makes sense so if you had to assume and guess in this magical world we've created here um do you think that daniel louis was pushed because he was probably the problem with any kind of potential takeover or buyout as far as it could be a part of it um i think it's probably you know they did that whole independent study um our performances all the things we talked about about the business versus the football look he did a lot of amazing things uh for a football club but i feel like we definitely didn't pick a direction as t said we didn't really modernize i think as you said flav we we um it was a very old school approach in a billion dollar industry and and so i i can kind of understand why an independent uh study would point some of these things out is selling at the end game um i don't know typically it always is and so whether that's in 20 years or in two uh you know the it's not it's not going to be sold anytime soon if we go down because that valuation just uh it's gone down cut in half okay um just a little request um if there was an opportunity for you to be a part of a consortium to buy tuttlum i'd strongly encourage you to do that because having someone like you understands the football club and understand sports mentality and and and um what it takes to to to compete at the highest level i think someone like you on the tottenham sport board would be fantastic wouldn't you yeah steve got my vote yeah steve's got my vote yeah yeah we should make some placards and banners at the club vote for Steve yes we can

1:30:18thank you so much Steve for giving us so much of your time I think this might be the longest fighting cop podcast we've ever done in 15 years genuinely two-part and it's been it's been fascinating so yeah thank you and thanks tea and thank you Ricky thanks guys great guys

1:30:37Steve Nash:thanks good to meet you and thanks for everything I love listening to the pod and it keeps me sane so cheers boys cheers mate that is well last year