THE LAB | Vinai Venkatesham’s Promises vs Reality: What is the Plan?

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0:30Frank get when the squad is held together with tape and does the lack of sign-ins quietly buy him time? Welcome back to the lab.

0:50Hello and welcome back once again. I'm joined by John Bass. How are you doing, Jon? I'm alright, mate. I'm alright. We are going to discuss the transfer window, or lack thereof it, and the impact that that is going to have on Tottenham for the remainder of the season, and the impact of the reputation of people like Johan Langer and Veena Venkatesem and others, and what it means going forward, I guess. I've got some questions, but I think a good place to start, Jon, would be with Romero's quote on Instagram. which um wasn't the first time this this month i would say that where um he has made a post on his personal instagram and it's clear that it's not media managed uh where he's made a seemingly a an attack on the club or those that run it and i'm just you can tell I'm sort of filling air here because I'm trying to look for his actual Instagram posts while I speak.

1:56Well, while you do that, I had this sudden thought occurred to me that, you know, Romero came off because they were like, oh yeah, he's not feeling well. I just think he's part of change for Tottenham and he just left on the 75th minute. He's like, I need to get to an exit. That's brilliant. Got to get out. Got to get out. 75th minute. Fuck. What are you doing? Get out. Why? So it was all a ruse. Yeah. And I half expected him to be outside the stadium. We've changed for Tottenham going forward. He's finally outed himself, which is quite nice. Yeah. Well, essentially, the most interesting part of the quote is that he called it a disgrace that we only have 11 fit players.

2:34Here's the quote. Yeah, I finally found it. Great effort from all of my teammates yesterday. They were incredible. I wanted to be available to help them, even though I wasn't feeling well, especially since we only had 11 players available. Unbelievable. ball but true and disgraceful so bearing in mind this has been translated into english from his spanish um we'll keep showing up and taking responsibility to turn this around working hard and staying together blah blah blah uh it spurs official at the end so in the first instance i was like christ that don't look good but fair play because it is disgraceful that nothing happened and we are in a situation where you know these injuries that we have john aren't insignificant.

3:16Lots of them are fan events coming back, but obviously lots of them, you hope, but lots of them are long-term, right? For months, some of them, you know, most of them, in fact, some of them won't make the season. Kevin Dancer, I'm worried about him playing again this season because he's snapped a tendon in his big toe. So it is a disgrace. However, I was contacted by a Spanish-speaking friend of the pod and he says, if you talk about Romero's Instagram post on the pod this week. Know that disgracia in Spanish does mean disgrace, but it also means misfortune and unfortunate. So, John, knowing that it could mean unfortunate, which makes sense in this context, that we've only got 11 players in injury, and it could mean disgrace, that it's a disgrace that we're in this situation.

4:10What way do you think he meant it, or was he really clever and he means both of those things depending on who he's talking to so so i always think like you know this sort of old adage and like old phrases and people's like where do they come from and stuff and always feel like they come from times when things were really uh meant to explain something that would like last forever and the phrase there's no smoke without fire is a really good phrase and will last forever now if this statement was the first thing Romero had ever said right that was even slightly controversial or could be misinterpreted by a translation then I would have just given him the benefit of the doubt and gone okay let's just say it's unfortunate because it is unfortunate right these are a lot of injuries are just no one's fault but this isn't if you know if you're looking at him as a person this is not the first time if he is saying disgrace and not unfortunate that he's called out essentially the board and the owners.

5:08Like recently, like a couple of weeks ago. So I can't help but think. What did he say? Something about lies? Lies and, you know, they only come out when we win. And yeah, and they're just telling lies. So that one wasn't misinterpreted unless, again, there was like loads of different meanings for those words. In which case, how difficult must it be to have a conversation in Spanish? Like, are you calling me a disgrace or are you saying I'm unfortunate? um so i i can't help but feel this is another essentially another statement to us as the fans to let us know that he is also unhappy with the situation and i actually actually respect that i really do respect that because it's very easy you know we talk about all the time players they're multi-millionaires they don't care you know i don't give a really care what the fans think they're not really that interested he doesn't need to say any of this right he's still getting paid at the end of the week he doesn't care but he does care and that is to me it's like run the risk of not being paid being fine exactly and you know reputational damage that could lead to like not going to clubs that you want to go to in the future if you were to leave Spurs so you know he obviously cares and so that to me is at least encouraging right that we have the captain of the club who's emotionally invested in what we're trying to do in the same way as we are so I can't help but think that it's that but obviously it could also be the fact that he's just venting that it is unfortunate and it's sort of no one's fault so i guess we'll never know in until he comes out and clarifies i'm inclined to agree i'm kind of i'm not a person that enjoys necessarily conflict right i want things to be harmonious as much as possible most human beings do so i lean towards hoping that he meant unfortunate but then you're really thinking about it and you think well actually no if there is something wrong as our captain and it's rare because often people don't want to rock the boat.

6:57But as a captain, for him to come out publicly and say, no, this isn't good enough. We'll never really know, right? But as you said, if you look at the clues and wear out the evidence and the fact that he's got a track record of attacking the board, you could, I'm leaning towards that he actually meant it was a disgrace that we haven't strengthened the squad, maybe. I don't know. After the window, did it come out after the window shut? I think it was like on the last day so I think maybe it was technically still open but he obviously I guess knew it was going to shut up but I like this idea mate you're like I'm the sort of person who doesn't really like conflict so for me I think it would be unfortunate yeah and Romero is the sort of guy who likes conflict loves it mate more than anyone I've ever known probably so if I was in my boss if I was working for a company I wouldn't go out of my way to dig my bosses out because I couldn't be arsed with the egg correct but sometimes it needs to be said I guess it reminds me a little bit weirdly because we haven't released it yet we did a podcast with a gentleman who wrote a book about Danny Blanchflower and his impact at Tottenham and he would constantly every club he went to get into arguments public spats with the board with the chairman and he would be in a position where he'd put pressure on them to be better and do better so maybe that is it but he has a point even whether he meant it or not in that um i so i mean i'm in a position where i understand that january and despite it being frustrating isn't a good time to buy players you look at the absolute pap that went in the final window for huge money and you think you know that crystal palace has spent a hundred million pound what it would have done if dwight dwight mcneil went through a hundred million pound of dwight mcneil brennan johnson strand larson that's what 100 million pound gets you fuck so um so i understand that i think we all understand that but we're in this kind of unique position where we don't have a squad capable of properly competing in the premier league where there is a genuine risk of relegation no matter how remote that might be there is a risk that's still alive and we haven't that risk by doing anything which I think that's where most of the frustrations come from yeah it's it's weird isn't it like I feel like if you look around the deals that were trying to get done and the deals that got done it was very like Premier League centric as in like clubs just trying to buy players off each other and not really looking to bring in from overseas and I wonder if there's like a you know you mentioned there like all those Palace deals were basically internal Premier League.

9:42We looked at Robinson. We obviously sold Brennan Johnson. And even like Conor Gallagher, right, is like Premier League centric. Like he's come from Spain, but he's a British player. So I wonder if there is this hangover of this idea that players just can't cut it in the Premier League. If you're not a Premier League established player, it's going to take you a season before you're up and running, maybe half a season. We're seeing with Florian Verts and Simmons is taking them to this point where they're now starting to show their talent and their ability and they can actually get up to speed. So are people, you know, are clubs looking at that and going, well, there's no point in plucking some talented player from France.

10:21There's no point because in six months' time, we might get some benefit, but we need benefit now. So the only deals worth doing are Premier League deals, and they're going to be the hardest because you're basically competing with each other in terms of like, you know, if we give you this player, is that going to directly affect us? I do think there's something to that because we've seen in this last sort of round of Champions League, league games Premier League is so dominant physically that it does feel like there's a certain profile or type of player that the clubs are looking for and that might be why it's just much harder if that is the sort of mindset right I'm not making excuses for our business but I'm just saying if that is the mindset it does limit your options quite a lot doesn't it in terms of what you can actually sign or who you should be looking at yeah if you're in a situation that we're in or Palace are in for example or a better example because they have a more significant risk of going down they have to buy players that are capable of playing right now Xavi Simmonds even if they can get him doesn't help Palace right now Alakouche if we got him doesn't really change you'd imagine it could be wrong but you have to gauge it on what you know is true up to this point and that is players that are able to compete in this league at this level are the ones that you need to bring in and there aren't any available to Tottenham well there are available they just don't improve us if a strand last in 48 million i'd be pulling my hair out if you'd have done that yeah that is absolutely wild there's also mate there's also just a complete dearth of like senior pros that are just like class like remember when players would get to sort of the end of their career they have a glittering career and we had it with david's remember we signed up with david's that was like a huge deal because he was like juventus ajax like this like icon of football and it was like you bring him in and he's just got this wealth of experience and stuff and you see it with like older strikers again we had like lorrente you bring him in he's experienced played champions league football he can do a job like where are they there aren't any because the game's changed to such an extent where they will just retire and they're multi gazillionaires most of them and so there's no real benefit to carry on playing into your 30s unless you love the game like you know cristiano ronaldo for example there's just no there's not floating about and always used to remember those sort of teams like portsmouth would just pick up like random players who'd been around for years who just do a really good job for them and just come in and steady the ship or help them stay up or kick on.

12:40And because flair players have also gone out the game, right, like Bolton signing JJ Acoccia, there aren't any. Like, who are you signing that's going to give you that magic, give you that spark and change something? You know, Paul Merson at Portsmouth. I'm just pulling out random names now. But you get my point, right? There aren't that type of player either. So you are stuck in that peak age. You've got to spend like 50 million to get someone in and they're still you know Strand Larson it's not like you know what I mean so there isn't isn't isn't a great market at the moment for players like there aren't tons of obvious choices do you think Spurs generally tried to sign players and failed or just chose not to act I think they tried to sign Semenyo and yeah we know tried look guys we're obviously serious in this window we tried to sign players tried FC is what we've yeah Thomas I hate to make it to you that's what we're supposed to do yeah look I think we the Semenya deal we obviously tried to do that and we didn't do it and look in this scenario you know I always say just offer the most money and get the deal done in this scenario when you're going against Manchester City they can offer more money than you and it's currently a better scenario so there isn't really a world where we can win that deal right there aren't many chips to play there so I have a little bit of sympathy with that deal yeah the only two players Semenya and Mark Gay would you think yeah Yeah, obviously.

14:03Other than that, Gallagher's probably the third best, right? Yeah, exactly. So I do have some sympathy, but my point is this, is that that mindset of, oh, you have to be Premier League, otherwise you can't compete in the Premier League, I think is a little bit too simplistic. And I do think we are getting into this world of, if everyone's just lumping balls and it's just super physical, it can't stay like that forever. You can't just keep going, okay, we just have to get even bigger players than even faster players. at some point you've got to try and go well what's the antidote to that what's the difference to that and there are players like more technically gifted players and you can play a slightly different way where you can play around these big lumps right and do stuff differently i don't feel like the club are thinking strategically like that they're not looking bigger picture they are just going everyone's playing big lumps let's just find some big lumps who can run around and let's who's available like this doesn't seem to be a strategy because it's not like when we were linked to a player it was out there right we we were linked to robertson we didn't get him it was out there and it didn't happen same with semenyo so we know that when deals are happening they're in the press even if they don't happen and there were no interesting deals but there was nothing that i was like oh okay i've not heard of this guy like what's what i bring to the table let's have a look at them and it's like okay this is a different type of player it just seemed to be very opportunistic which i guess is what january is but it's not what we should be doing like we need to catch up we need to be thinking outside the box you're doing things smarter and just doesn't feel like that to me and this i mean we had a conversation on your podcast big john basho and uh lovely plug i love that thank you yeah uh no problem and uh you know we we identified although we disagreed on quite a lot we identified that they're part of the reason we think that there isn't any structure going forward or structure or deliberacy to how we operate in the transfer market is because there was very little structure behind the scenes that makes that possible you need someone in who's planning everything months in advance windows in advance a scouting network that you can identify players two years on from when you actually need them or we've got an issue with the fact that harry kane is running down his contracts oh well that's all right because we've got x and y in place and if that doesn't work we have x y in place right so and I think to the point where Venkatesha might come under criticism it's going to take him a while to get that sorted however Langer should come under criticism because he's been there so long now uh interestingly um I want to talk about those things as well I've got more more to get into but I've just been alerted to an athletic article and they've listed um the in order the 33 signings that happened in the Premier League and yesterday was the deadest transfer window officially of in history not that's not just my opinion it was there was only seven deals done which is the least that's ever happened um so uh I'll do the top six because one includes Spurs so Mark Gay Palace makes complete sense 20 million pound Douglas Luiz Juve to Aston Villa, which, you know, he wasn't playing at Forest, knows the club, done well at Villa, and they've got an injury crisis in midfield.

17:18Semenyo, obviously. Oscar Bob, he was available. Went. Is that an opportunity he missed? Or would he not really move the needle for you? This is the thing, isn't it? He's in that sort of middle bracket where I'm like, there was a lot of hype about him. And, you know, a lot of people were rating him quite highly. And then he sort of just disappeared. I know there's injuries and stuff. He broke his leg in 2024. And it's like, it's always that risk, isn't it? If you go, well, on paper, yeah, it's this like Man City prospect. You know, huge, like highly rated. But it doesn't, I don't feel gutted about that one, if I'm honest.

17:59And yeah, I feel like that's another one where it's like, it's not definitely going to move the needle. So is it worth just bloating the squad out again? I'm not sure. Yeah, fair enough. That was the fourth best, apparently. Alex Toff, Ferran Sharas to Bournemouth. And number six, Conor Gallagher. And I guess if you want to give us credit, I think getting that done was impressive because he is what you said that they need to be and that he is comfortable in the league. Going to Atletico Madrid isn't in any way going to have harmed his development. in fact probably made him a better player and he was hungry to come back to Spurs or to succumb to Spurs and come back to the Premier League.

18:35So you have to give them credit for that. But like I said, given the situation. Is it the Newcastle situation is similar as well in that they have seven first-team injuries out. They didn't buy one. That's two clubs that have chosen not to bring players in despite the situation. Do we also have to recognise that PSR is an issue for Tottenham? It is an issue, if like that for everybody else is. And I wonder if fans underestimate how restricted these clubs actually are. Like Newcastle, we know their restrictions, but Spurs also have them as well. Like people were apoplectic that we didn't bring anyone in for good reason and I understand it.

19:25but maybe it's just simply it's not it's very difficult to um to buy it and the players that are willing to move aren't actually good enough and do you have to do you have to be pragmatic in your planning for the future knowing that in the summer we're gonna keep that money available like why aren't those reasons enough to placate an angry fan base john well because the only people saying it is you and me and the podcasters and people in the media and other fans we're speculating right that's what we're doing we don't know the people who know the answer just say it yeah if that's if that's what you say if you if Vinay or Lange goes like look we we get it right we're in this predicament we've got loads of injuries we have a good squad of good players a lot of them are injured and some of them are long term we can spend money now and maybe not quite get it right or we try to be really selective with the deals which is why we went after Semenyo why we got Gallagher and while we were going after Robertson because we thought they would improve this as it stands now and also would be good for next season and onwards but outside of that there weren't deals that were we believe were players that we could get that were good enough in this window we do think that the summer window will be a better chance for us to reassess that so we're going to keep our powder dry and try again then I think if they'd said that people would still be calling it calling bullshit right but at least it would give some clarity on the thought process It just seems like they don't know what they're doing.

20:53Well, what they have said to us is that there's this£100 million that's been injected. They've also said that, don't worry, we're going to sort the wage. We're going to increase the wage barrier that's prevented us from getting players. And we're going to make you happier fans because we realise there's a gap between the club and the fan base. So they're selling us all the good stuff. Now they need to come out and say what you just said. And it won't please everybody, but it would go some way to explaining maintaining it the inactivity that someone's got to come out and go it wasn't available the players weren't available if this was the truth if it is the truth they can't also come out and lie if they were and they weren't willing to pull the trigger or they didn't have to correct people in places in order to identify if the talent is out there you're only guessing that the talent ain't out there is because of the inactivity of other football clubs bar in man city who had the opportunity to sign these two players for in fortuitous circumstances because they're Man City obviously Mark Hayes going to want to go there and obviously Semenya is going to want to go there there's six months and a release clause so apart from that nothing was really done um but yeah you're right it's about continuing that line of communication do you do you understand the um Venkatesham the frustration with him or are you like me feel like he needs more time to put into place what what he needs to do and actually some of this aggression or or frustration aimed at Lange was much more suitable yeah we again we spoke about this on uh on my part about you know there's there's almost basically three different time horizons and like the the higher you go up the food chain the more time they need to actually do their job so yeah the playing staff and the coaches and the manager that's pretty immediate right we expect results you know if you don't start winning games pretty early into a season you can start you know getting calls for the manager to go then you know the director of football was looking at like a couple of transfer windows if you don't start to see something good happening across a couple of transfer windows so a couple of seasons then they start to come under to question and then when it gets to sort of the board level they need like a five-year time period to really have an impact because they're the ones that pick the director of football and the director of football then picks the manager and the playing stuff and so on and so forth.

23:10So I think at this moment in time, you know, the Frank situation is one thing, but the Langer situation is much more important to me because he's ultimately, or should be, and not even him as a person, but like that layer, whoever that is, the director of football person, they should be the one that sets the agenda on like the manager that we hire and the football that we're trying to play and therefore the players that we're trying to sign, the scouts that we have, the youth team set up and how we incorporate those players into the first team and setting the agenda for everything that's related to football within the club.

23:45I just don't feel like Langer or anyone else has got a grip on that. And that is one of the main reasons why we feel kind of rudderless. So if Vinay doesn't do something about that in the next year or so, then that can start to come into question. Because right now, I just don't think it's as easy is saying like he just needs to do you know x y and z he has to be able to have a bit more time to be able to like review what's going on now the the layer of complexity to me is that the people above him are enic essentially right it's the lewis family the rebrand but it's essentially the same owners and we know that you know the way the club has been ultimately run and managed by them sure it's been Levy is the front man and Vinay is essentially the new Levy in that way so we'll just see actually is this a Levy Vinay insert new CEO or is it actually the family is it actually Enoch who make us the way that we are and they're just basically you know delivering what they're being told to deliver right because it could be the case mate that you know Levy was given a brief on increased evaluation of the club well he nailed that didn't he and then as soon as got to a point where they're like well now there's too much heat on him we'll bring a new guy that will buy us some space while we do whatever the next thing is right it could be you know don't don't over don't overspend keep us within PSR you know just get we don't know what that is and I think this is for me is the biggest frustration is I completely understand and will always support any fan movements like change for Tottenham and all those things I think it's really important if people don't feel that the club is doing what it should be doing we're all sort of able to voice our opinions on how that moves forward.

25:27I think the real problem is we don't really know where it is, the issue. It's got even more muddy now Levy's gone. So, yeah, I still think we need to, we don't need to do anything. I guess I would give Vinay a little bit more time, but I do think Langer is actually a really pressing issue for us and that part of the club needs sorting out because there's no direction in my mind. Agreed, agreed. And then that's, you can hear more of that on that podcast I did with John. I want to take it back to the drowning and return to window because there's the kind of the risk of short-term fixes versus long-term damage.

26:06And I've got a couple of questions here for you. You don't have to answer them, but it would set up a decent conversation, I think. It says, so these are the questions. Is there something fundamentally dangerous about buying players just to survive an injury crisis that ends in the short term? do stop gap sign-ins become wage clockers that block real upgrades later or in summer how many times in the levy era have we spent years undoing one bad window is not buying anybody anyone actually the least damaging option long term if you want to spin this you imagine if the wheels are spinning and what if you were writing a statement for the next program, Fiena's next program, he writes a statement.

26:50He's thinking, right, well, some of these things are true. I mean, the Levy era was, we spent years on doing a bad window, but those weren't short-term fixes. This is Ndombele, this is Lo Celso, whose wages did clog us up in a big, big way. Yeah, is there anything in that, in terms of the short-term fixes, preventing targets, as we already talked about in the summer. But there's no real value to placating an angry fan base with bringing in players who are not necessarily going to cut it in the long term. Yeah, mate, I'll preface this whole point by saying I am still angry about this transfer window.

27:38However, it makes total sense why we haven't signed people based on those points. Right, so I'm in this weird place where I'm like, it's annoying. Just find people then. There must be someone that's good. There must be players that are better out there. Just buy players. Just buy players. Get players in. What are we doing? We've got all these injuries. We need better quality. Just get them. Just somehow get them for me. Now, I'm not saying it's impossible. Do I think we could have done a better job in the transfer window? Are there players out there? There must be. There must be players around the world who could add something now who wouldn't be wage cloggers, short-term sign-ins.

28:13I do think that's possible. But if we park that for a minute, right, and accept the realities of, you know, January maybe players don't want to move, even if they would be better and they would accept they just don't want to move now. That's fair enough. It's, you know, World Cup year. Maybe they don't want to move for that reason and a ton of other reasons. And they maybe might consider it in the summer. And we do have a load of players out that will eventually come back who are contracted to the club. We can't just keep stockpiling multiple players to the end of time because that then becomes a different issue and we do have PSR to consider and wage bills and all this all this kind of stuff so there is there is a world in which this makes sense I'm just still annoyed about it though I'm still I'm still sort of irrationally annoyed and I do think it's because it just feels like there's no rhyme or reason those reasons presented would be fair I just don't know if that is the reason why we haven't done it and I guess that's the frustration that people are feeling.

29:08Yeah, for sure. I mean, why didn't we use the loan market? Like, even if you... Do you reckon it's because of the kind of move towards obligations and, like, getting players out of a club to your football club means that you have to have an obligation. We don't want to oblige to pay for a player that might not necessarily be good enough. Like, I don't know, we managed to get Moani in without any option. Thank Christ. like because i i thought what a sign in what a sign in but if we were obliged to buy him now i'd be worried and this is the thing is that as fans you don't often think about this is like people at the time going well where's the obligation we should have had an obligation i think tell tell had maybe an option like and it showed like a lack of ambition or a lack of pull from the club like it's embarrassing that they won't they want to come and play for us for six months but there's no they won't commit past that you know it works both ways like if we were if the obligation was to for 40 million for moani you'd be worried right because that's a chunk of money that you have to account for that could have gone on a better signing that looked incredible at the time to me i was wrong i was very wrong not for the first time but you know it was a i don't know what the Why don't we go and buy some loan players that bring some loans?

30:30But it just didn't happen. It doesn't seem to be loan much with the loan market around. Well, this is it.

30:56That is just the app that understands us. Steuern completed. Safe. With Visos Steuer. Now try to try it out.

31:26leagues who would come in and do well in the Premier League I just I do though understand the risk right the risk of doing it is is significant these days and that in a perverse way it's almost worse if you are desperate right because then you are in a situation where you're like are we clouded with our judgment here because we just need bodies versus like wanting to improve the squad and one thing I will say in the defense of like I'll say the club in general I think we were all a bit tired of Clinton and G's and Kudus and Gelson Fernandez and these players just coming in and we're like they're clearly not good enough we've just bought them as a body right and we all believe that there's players like Tell and Odebert who are potentially really good but they shouldn't really be like the first names on the team sheet they should be rotation options and players that you bring in they're really talented but they're not quite ready and what we want is the sort of starting players we want those players can come in that are big names that are have big reputations that we're excited about that we think like yes this this would be there so if the club agree with that and this is the bit we don't know why it's frustrating then they can't get those players now so why sign another Nkudu and NG why do that right because then it's the same stuff we've all been complaining about which is like no get better players don't just get more players and so I wonder if there is an element of like and it does always feel like jam tomorrow with Enik but it does feel like to me well if they don't do it in the summer then they're never going to do it because that window will be the first one so we had levy most of the summer window then he was fired then we've had a january window which is you know not not ideal so it's this summer coming if they don't spend this war chest and they don't go big on players then i don't see any other world in which case like they've had enough time then and also by by making these statements that vena has made in the last, before the West Ham game, is that people will remember them.

33:21They will remember them vividly. They won't be forgotten. So he then has to be aggressive in the summer. It has to be, especially because we haven't done anything, like you say, in the January. So what does he say about, what does he mean for Thomas Frank, though? Because he can't change, he can't, it's not his fault that the players are injured. It wasn't Poster Cogli's fault, clearly, that the players were injured. Although I think there's been less muscle injuries, I'd guess. I don't know if that's true. I need to look it up. But anyway, there's only so much he can do with a broken squad, which is what we've got at the moment.

33:56In a way, does this help him? Because they've kind of like, they've given him, it feels like, without actually saying it, that you're here, don't listen to the noise, you're our manager until the end of the season. Or they might have said beyond that. And the reason why we know that is true, actually, is because Frank came out and said it, didn't he? He said we had a meeting, we're all aligned, you know we're moving forward we're going to work this out um the the kind of lack of signings and the injuries would mean that in a way going forward perhaps he's going to escape the irie of the spurs fan base i don't know if this is true it's just a question yeah mate i am i had this thought after the city game and i was thinking next time i'm on i'm gonna like suggest that we let's make a case for frank right because we we constantly said why should he go this is why it will never work and um blah blah blah and i had people in my comments going on you know after we finished fourth in the champions league table going oh how does that humble pie taste like you've been slagging off you and flat for slagging off frank for an hour on your pod and now look where you finish and i was like well hold on like let's just see what happens in the league right i'd like him to not be so terrible in the league before i start eating some humble pie but i thought about and I thought, am I just blinded now because I've made my mind up that he's not the guy?

35:14Am I not looking at the wider view? So I thought, right, I always like to, in any discussion, just take the complete opposing view and see if I could make a case for it. And I actually think you can make a pretty good case for Frank's defence for what's happening at the moment, right? And that first thing is, there's a ton of injuries. Like, it's crazy the amount of actually decent players that are out as well. You know, sometimes when you hear clubs go, oh, they've got an injury crisis, and you're like, yeah, but they're players that never play. It doesn't really matter. They've got 10 players out, but they're 10 youth team players.

35:46These are important players. Madison Kuliseski would make a massive difference to us, and they've been out all season. He probably won't get any benefit from those two. And we would definitely be in a better position in the league if they were available, I do believe that, even if we were playing at peak disgusting Frank Ball. That's one thing. We've then really not strengthened much in this January transfer window, to your point. right so he hasn't been given additional body so he's now going to have to manage with these injuries with the like no squad depth through this difficult moment and then we've all been saying including me that the players we have got aren't really up to much anyway and that they need improving anyway so when everyone is fit there still needs to be a big upgrade on this squad so if you park the like I don't think he's the right mentality park the football is absolutely horrific and the results haven't been good in the league you could point to the champions league and then point to all those other points i've just made and gone there's enough there to give this guy more time isn't there so yeah i just i'm not saying that's my opinion i'm just saying if i had to make the case for his defense there's quite a lot of things to support him not being given a fair crack of the whip i um i haven't actually seen anyone say uh like dig me out for digging out thomas frank however um there are there have been a militant few who are backing him to the hill my dad included and uh and then oh he's drinking a barocca for those at home another sip of barocca anyway the um uh derailed me there uh what was i saying there's a few like the very uh fervent frank support right yeah yeah and like you have to back them right because sometimes and rate them.

37:28So like, and it, I don't think it comes from a place of, no, he's a hundred percent right guy. Just give him time. I think like my dad said, it's not a case of saying this isn't all his fault. The situation that we find ourselves in with the players, the fact that we can't keep sacking managers, we have to kind of, we have to support one, even through the tough times. He's actually probably the most sensible position to be in. And now that I've, you know, Now that it seems that the club have just backing him and just saying, not backing him in the transfer market, clearly, but backing him in that he's got the support, your job isn't under threat, just go out there and manage Spurs and do the best you can.

38:09I've kind of, if that is the case, and I believe it to be the case, I've just settled now. I've just gone, okay, he's here. There's no point in just screaming he's got to go. Don't get me wrong, I'm different during the game when things aren't going right. He can't go! Daddy's got to go! but after I've calmed down generally I'm like well okay he's here right so there's no point yeah but I don't want him to be it doesn't matter it doesn't matter if he's here and I believe he is to be if you couple that with the fact that there has been a genuine improvement in attacking Alpey you can see it the statistics show it and you can see it when you're watching it so it means he's capable whereas it seemed Postacoglu was incapable of doing anything different other than this sort of ideology, mythology, the way he approached football is, and that's the be all and end all.

38:59Frank genuinely seems to have many strings to his bow. And we can attack and hit the target 11 times against Burnley and then hit the target more times than Man City did. You know, score two goals, come back with a depleted squad. They seem to be playing for him. so if all those things are true then I'm absolutely fine with being proven wrong I hope I am I want yeah exactly this is the bit I never really understand when people are like you'll be sorry no I won't I'll be delighted I would love it there is nothing that gives me more joy than when you're like oh this player's not good and then they become excellent that's brilliant that's good I'm glad I want them it's the other way round is the worst when you're like this guy's going to be amazing yeah Vincent Janssen mate he's quality that that's the worst and then they're rubbish because then your team is a rubbish striker this scenario i want him to work i've always wanted it to work with frank because why wouldn't i i want it to work with every manager that comes in he's never been like you know he's never been where he's crossed the line and like started going for you know the club in a way that's like disrespectful i know he said obviously a few things about the fans and stuff like that and that's not come across perfectly but i don't think he's crossed a line right i think he's he's misread the room maybe he's fundamentally like a decent human being and he's trying he's trying to do a good job and he's trying to turn us around if he does it i'll be delighted for him and i'll be delighted for us as a club it'd be great i don't want to be proved right i just i only give my opinion on what i believe in that moment in time and i just you know i haven't so far really seen it but like i said it's a good exercise to do in life is whatever you this the opinion you don't believe just go right I've got to make a case now I've got to stand up in front of everyone and make a case what what would the points I would raise because it helps give you that perspective on why they are doing it right and actually all those reasons we've given and the things we're talking about you can completely understand that they're like we've never had stability let's try that you know we've got loads of injuries well that's quite a big issue we can't really make signs because we want to do that in the summer so that's also an issue for him he's missing the biggest like some of the better players in the squad that's an issue for him you know we also have a quality deficit in the squad we know about we want to improve that's an issue for him let's just give him more time then but I can understand why they've come to that conclusion and I hope if we do it and he does stay things start to turn around and you're right there have been now some green shoots like there have been and you can't deny that you might give context to them right like you know I was saying to you about the some of the league games where the numbers were better I was like well they're bad teams the numbers should be better but we've now played a decent team and the numbers were better and they're improving and we've seen that in the Champions League as well so hopefully and I really mean this hopefully we are turning a corner in a weird way and we start to get some players back and we can put a run together because if we do that then we'll all feel a lot better I think by the end of the season we have options whereas we don't have any options now the options is Ryan Mason interim which again right or Or we can't keep doing that, right?

42:04So if the alternative to that is just keeping Thomas Frank and Siena and how it goes, that's probably preferable. At the end of the season, we must hope that Frank's done such a good job that we're not considering Pochettino. If he hasn't done a good job, Pochettino's right there, pick him up, make him his first manager. If he has done a brilliant job, and even we're going, maybe give him the summer. And if you're going to give him the summer, he's going to get October, November. if he's done that much of a job, John, then that's a good thing. And the attacking output is the most important thing as well.

42:42We'll see, mate. We'll see. Thank you very much, mate. If you want to listen more to John's beautiful dulcet tones, then you can on the Big John Bass Show. You'll also hear him on the Fighting Club podcast. And TikTok, Instagram, he's everywhere. He's sick of me. Would someone call you the other day a TikTok twat? Oh, right. Should have said twat. Would have been better. Yeah. Alliteration would have been nice, but what are you going to do? Yeah, well, look, it's one of them. You just put yourself out there. You're primed to get shut down. Someone called me an attention-seeking twat as well, and I was like, yes.

43:13Do you think I just don't like people talking about me? I don't want my voice to be heard, and that's why I do loads of podcasts and put myself on social media. Yeah, I guess I am an attention-seeking twat. Of course I am. What do you mean? Yes, otherwise I wouldn't do that. I literally am seeking attention by going on a place that gets attention. and that's sort of how it works. So it's not really an insult, is it? Do you know what I mean? No. It's like going to a restaurant and going, ah, look at you, you hungry twat. I'm like, yes. Yes, I'm hungry. So I've come here. Very good. Right, John Boy, nice one.

43:44Nice one, mate.