THE LAB | “We Knew We Were Winning It” - Ben Haines on Bilbao, Ange, and Frank

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1:09Tee off on the Turkish Riviera, Europe's premier golf destination. with championship courses in Bilek and Antalya, luxury all-inclusive resorts and year-round sunshine. It is the perfect getaway under the Mediterranean sun. Play immaculate fairways designed by golf legends, then unwind beside stunning beaches and five-star hospitality. Search Turkey on TripAdvisor now to book your ultimate golf holiday in the Turkish Riviera. Today on The Lab we're joined by Tottenham Hotspur presenter Ben Haynes. He's the guy who sits with our players after the biggest moments and asks the questions we all want answered from our heroes.

1:51We get into that night in Bilbao and what the gantry felt like when the final whistle went, how Ange kept interviews razor sharp and why Thomas Frank brings calm and clear answers. We also talk about the club opening up its comms to the fans and Sonny's emotional goodbye. So stick around for this episode of The Lab because it's a proper inside look into the world of Tottenham Hotspur.

2:19Hello Ben Haynes, how are you doing? Good mate, how are you? I'm so glad we got the chance to do this. Yeah, yeah, I mean like it's not a straightforward thing is it really? Because obviously you represent and you're now the face, which is probably a strange thing to say. and I know you're a humble guy, but you are from a Spurs fans perspective and one that talks to Tottenham fans regularly. You have, through the years, certainly in recent times, become the face of the media that Tottenham Hotspur produce and the guy who gets to talk to the players. Are you aware of that? Kind of. I never really, a bit of a strange eye, I never really sort of think about it in that way.

3:05And I promise that it's not just like weird faux humility gubbins. I know you're thinking straight away. No, no, of course not. What is this frobber talking about? But the thing that always is in my mind is that whenever I'm doing interviews with people is that trying to think of the things that me as a Tottenham fan wants to ask. Because the chances are that most fans are sitting, whenever we put something up, most fans are sitting there thinking like why aren't you asking this ask this and and obviously the difficult thing is that as you know and I mean like I as I've said to you lots of times or off air I love listening to you guys but one of the things that you must see and you definitely do talk about kind of week in week out is that it doesn't really matter whether you think one way or not there are a hundred other people that feel totally different to how you see the game oh yeah particularly in your in your whatsapp group for example i love your discussions around like how the different ways that people experience a game in a whatsapp group it's absolutely hell the only way i can stay sane during watching the game certainly with our whatsapp group is just to lock it and there's been a there's been a great feature introduced on whatsapp where you can lock things and the groups go away and you don't get any notifications it's amazing uh yeah but because But you're right, it's like the way fans approach any given subject at a football club is completely different.

4:34It depends on the hopes and desires of that fan. You know, he had people that wanted Daniel Levy to remain and others that wanted him to leave. And everybody's right because there is no, it's all grey, right? There's no right way to move forward. It's all totally subjective, right? I mean, this is the thing is that it's like whatever, I think it has a lot to do with when you started supporting Spurs as well. You and I are quite similar in the sense that probably don't, we didn't get that bit that our dads did. We didn't get that bit. Our dads have this kind of like inbuilt idea of like Spurs winning FA Cups.

5:13Maybe that they, with their dad had the chat about the double winning side, et cetera. My dad was, that was my dad's first season, 61. 61, yeah, okay. So for them, the idea of winning all the time is kind of like, well, yeah, we should be constantly challenging. For you and I that did the 90s, it's kind of like, I was overjoyed that we were getting to see a sort of like UEFA Cup qualifier against Kaiserslautern. Yeah, I remember that game vividly. Did we go out in that? I think we did. I think Stephen Carr scored two own goals, if I remember rightly. I want to say that Everson maybe scored one.

5:52Really? And I was listening, I can remember listening on the radio and like just being like, I can't believe that we're getting to play a UEFA cup game. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, no, you're right. Actually, weirdly, my dad's quite philosophical about Tottenham generally. Oh, really? Yeah, no, he's had his moments in the last couple of years, especially with how open we could be in the last couple of years with the style of play that Ange Bosticoglu put together. But generally, he's kind of like, it'll be right. And that's, I sort of fluctuate in emotional, you know, an emotional sort of mess.

6:30But sometimes I'm absolutely fine with things and other times I'm destitute. Have you changed? Have you got more fine with things as you've got older? I've got a little bit worse, honestly. Yeah, in the last two or three years, I think I've got a lot. The thing with the Postacoglu era is I was so invested and defensive of him and I would get quite emotional and angry when people would attack him so freely, other fans who didn't think the way he put together. And then obviously for me, there was this kind of slow realisation that this is probably not going to work in the Premier League. and as much as I respect the way he goes about playing football and stuff, I think I found that quite tricky.

7:19But we won a Europa League, which I want to talk to you about. I won't go into huge amounts of detail because you've done this with Jack on Rural Roos recently and go into fine detail about that night in Bilbao. But that must have been, that must, I mean, to be out there, to be with the players. What was that like? best like best best working experience I've ever had I mean I I made the point to Jack as well I got married this summer so like I can't I can't run the risk of it somehow getting back to my missus that I've said best night of my life I heard it I heard it before the minute you put working in I was I know what you're saying yeah yeah but but it was it was unbelievable every single beat of it I mean like I had a really good chat with Jack and Rob about this the other day but a lot of the things that we we didn't get a chance to talk about were just kind of like the the little things that are actually absolutely massive you know that you you kind of you have these outer bodies where you're just like oh my god how is this how is this happening like getting to there's one bit afterwards which is really mad is that when after we'd won right we had that weird window of like two three days where everyone was just kind of in a bit of a haze where everyone's like sort of either constantly going out partying, as in like all fans, players have had their kind of nights out as well.

8:41And then there was this bizarre day on, was the final day of the season Sunday against Brighton? Yes. Yeah, it's this really bizarre day on Saturday where all the players kind of had to come in because they'd had a day off, but they had to come in and almost go through the motions of doing training. even though we're in the Champions League, job done in the Europa League, but we've still got a game to play. Obviously, you want to go out and give the best version of yourself. But there was this real end of term feeling. Like, you know when you used to go into school on the last Friday before the summer and everyone's bringing in games and everyone's watching videos.

9:18It was literally like that. And they brought the trophy back with them. And I had this moment where I was saying, we were making a documentary throughout the season because there was a feeling, I think, between a lot of the media team that once the lay of the land had been set in terms of the knockout stages, you know, this was the strange thing about the Europa League this time around is that there was no draws. You know where you're going. You know who you're going to face and who could potentially get through. And we'd started making this kind of like early days of this documentary at the beginning because Spurs were very much favourites.

9:53But as then the draw came through for the knockouts, we kind of ramped things up and we're very much taking the approach of like we're going out to win this thing so let's behave like a club that's going to win this thing and believe that was universal across the club well that was that was kind of like I think that was very much a an Ange thing you know he he never shied away from being like we're going to win the Europa League and I mean people used it as a stick to beat him with right in this whole like I always win things in in my second season but it wasn't it wasn't a bit he wasn't doing it as a it wasn't definitely wasn't doing it as a kind of like no well I'm just going to flex it was it was like a real belief there um and definitely in terms of the way that we were approaching I think from from from our point of view when we're working on media but it's definitely running through every every bit of the stuff that we were doing that the players are going out there to get the job done so So when we got back, the only bit that we had left to do was like the final wrap-up interviews after we'd won it.

10:57I mean, we had done in-depth interviews ahead of the quarterfinals, the semifinals and the final with all of these guys talking about going out to win it. And so the last bit that we needed to do was kind of tick off like, oh my God, we've actually won it. So we set up the studio with the trophy behind the seat where the players are going to sit, where we're going to ask the questions. and there was like a 10 minute window where the producer Sam that I was working with at the time he was like right I gotta go and get I gotta go and get Brennan now to talk about scoring a winning goal so he leaves the room we always tried to keep it really intimate and all the interviews that we did we always tried to make it as few people in the room as possible because I mean as as you all know like the more people that there are on a set the the more it doesn't feel like conversation it feels like it's all a bit much do you know what I mean yeah no absolutely 100 % and so Sam goes out of the room I just have this moment where I'm just sat there with the Europa League trophy it's just me and the trophy just in this room I'm like what on earth am I doing in here with that like that is just it was just bananas um and so we do these interviews with Brennan and we spoke to Mickey about the goal line clearance like which was just what a moment for him you know to have that experience to to to do something in a game of that magnitude as a defender that is as good as scoring a goal that will be celebrated forever like scoring a goal um so we chat to mickey and then we chat to ang as well and then sunny too and then at the end we sort of we wrapped these interviews and then there was just this amazing moment where people are kind of like just kind of like lingering around the training ground and everyone's got black bags like all the players have just got black bin bags because they all had to take all their stuff out the training ground so it can be like deep cleaned over the summer so it's it's bizarre like all of these like world-class players are walking out with black bin bags full of their kit stuff and their lockers and stuff yeah yeah yeah all from all their lockers they're just walking out the training because they have to like take all their stuff out so it couldn't be prepped for the start of the next season so you had this kind of like really strange kind of bookend to this whole experience I mean Bilbao just as an experience in general is like was like nothing else I mean it it really like I said to Jack the other day it really felt like uh from the moment the guys arrived from the moment they arrived to the hotel just everything was wired a bit differently like I I hope I'm not sort of speaking out of a turn here but it didn't feel like the the Tottenham that I grew up with it didn't feel like a oh plucky like let's just hope we go out and put on a bit of a show and play swashbuckling football and maybe we won't win but we'll have a bloody good go it was like now it doesn't matter how we get there tonight we're getting over the line which was unbelievable I know I agree with you completely and I think the kind of respect that we've been shown I mean no one talks about the quality of the game because it was it's irrelevant but the respect I've been shown when and I because of my work I have to unfortunately spend lots of time with fans of other football clubs but generally the the the feeling is fair play you went out there you've done what you needed to do how mad is that by the way when have you ever had that never not really and I don't call it in fact I don't want it really yeah yeah I don't even I'll take it in this instance because it was it showed you a different side of what we were about and a different side than what we'd shown for a lot of the season and like you were out there right we we we did a we called it the fighting cock social most people listen to this will know about it but essentially we just get loads of Spurs fans in a room together we close it off it's just us and the tension in that room in in those final five minutes was something I could never I almost don't want to go through it again it was that difficult you're watching the clock it's ticking by as if it's going backwards and when Sonny lifted that trophy I genuinely I appreciate and I knew that it was real but it felt like I was in a dream um and so it felt like that for me to a thousand fifteen hundred two thousand miles whatever it is away from Bill Bell like to be in amongst it like with the players like you're with the players right after the game what you do are you working are you preparing what are you doing so we did I did it's kind of thankfully me Me and Rob had done all of our prep beforehand of everything that we wanted to say.

15:26We got all of the narratives together for every single player, just in case whichever player had the moment on the night, we knew exactly where we were going to go. And that would be for Rob on commentary and Clive on commentary. And then for me on the post-match interviews, I knew every single player I had a narrative that I wanted to make sure that I gave them the chance to explain so that they would have this platform to go out and speak and get that shared experience. Because the thing that you described there, which is amazing, is that for you with that amazing group of people, there's like a collective sense of trauma from all of the other finals that you've been at and all the semifinals that you've been at where you've kind of all felt it before.

16:11So then getting over the line is then the same, that that collective elation is like nothing else. I mean, Palace fans had it, Newcastle fans had it. And so like having just seen that last season before we got there, I remember feeling like I'm so desperate. That looks so much fun. I wanted it so badly. Yeah. And that almost became like a problem. Do you know what I mean? I was like, it was getting worse. I was like, I wanted it more and more and more to the point where when it did happen, it was like almost like you don't know what to do with yourself. Sort of like you're just having this kind of out of body thing.

16:48I didn't I I what I do in my brain and because of all the PTSD that we've we've all developed over the years is I'm going like how do I explain this like when when Spurs inevitably concede here and it goes to extra time or penalties how do I start to think I think about my job I think about what I have to do think about podcasting I think about the fact that you're going to get calls from different news outlets and you have to talk about it you don't have to but you should how am I going to spin this and I'm like and I remember sitting again I don't want to spin this I don't want to have to do that again I just want to win yeah what is it what will this feel like just to win and then when we did the explosion of emotion men like it was I would say 98 % men in that room but there were just tears everywhere we've done it we've finally done it it's incredible Unbelievable.

17:39I mean, I had this kind of like really, one of the coolest things on that night. And it's a thing I never forget. I mean, you know what you were saying like five minutes before it's kind of like it slows down. Everything slows down. It's kind of like the seconds you see every second. And I tried really hard not to look at the clock because every time I did it sort of made me feel worse. Yeah. When the full-time whistle went, I feel like everything went in 10 times speed. Yeah. I feel like everything was just happening everywhere. There's like stuff going on all over the place. Where are you? So I'm in the gantry at the top, which is like the fifth floor of the stadium.

18:20And to get downstairs, there was only one lift in the whole of the stadium for the media to get down. So I'm like, the full-time whistle goes. Everything goes crazy. And as you can imagine, like... In the gantry, is it full of Spurs fans or is it all media? It's a total mixed bag. A total mixed bag. So the best thing about it was you've got a mix of everything. We're kind of near the United team as well, who are obviously distraught. I've seen the United team in there as well in terms of their media type, guys. Yeah. And then next to my side is all of the Spurs analysts are all watching from there so they get a better view.

19:03So they're like waiting for the full-time whistle as well because obviously if United score, we're going to extra time. So they can't go and celebrate because they're sitting waiting for that moment because then that means job done. If United score, then obviously they have to show things, clips for analysis for Ange to then say, right, look, this is what we need to do for extra time. So I appreciate you and the ability of your story, but that's really interesting. I didn't know that. So there is a team of people watching the game and clipping things up physically in real time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

19:29absolutely so that that you'd have a group of you have a group of analysts that are doing things like in from up high because obviously they've got a better view they're communicating to the bench but on top of that they're they're making videos to then show to the players if they need them if they need to if they need to explain a thing that's gone wrong this is a pattern that's happening your this player's getting exposed because you're not right and so they know that they have to do that better yeah at ground level it's much more difficult to see but of course for everyone they're just like just just get they're the same as you just get this done like just get this over so then it then it then it finishes full-time whistle goes and i mean every fan that was in the stadium probably said the same thing it's just bodies that's just bodies it's like people don't know what to do so there's just scattering people running around going crazy and then we we we then run down to this lift and the lift's on the ground floor and it like it takes about an hour to get up so everyone's just kind of like fizzing just like don't know what to do like losing their head and everyone's like oh we'll just we'll just take the stairs so we run down these like 20 flights of stairs it's me and a couple of the other tv guys and the analysts just kind of like charging down these stairs and everyone's just shouting random things like just just shouting all it would just be it would go quiet for like five seconds while everyone's so out of breath and then someone will shout come on like it is it's just so bizarre and then you get down to the bottom and you're in this kind of like service road which is at the bottom of the thing and then you where where maybe like if you had a an incident or whatever you get an ambulance for you know you know what there is at the corner into a ground yeah yeah and so you kind of get on there and you can just hear this ambient just like raucous roaring of of fans and it's getting louder and louder and louder and then we sort of ran out of this tunnel bit and the sound like the sound i'll never forget it it was like guttural sort of like it wasn't it didn't sound like someone celebrating a goal it was like just this gut guttural relief of people just like losing their mind and then as i got out of the tunnel it um uh like free from desire starts playing and then you just hear the and like I like every people don't know where to look that's the thing that's in my mind is that people don't know where to look because there's so much happening like I've got a video of it and it's like fans kind of like going in all different directions and then just out the corner of my eye just see like Brennan Johnson shirtless with a Wales flower just running like just sort of like windmilling around kind of like all over the place Iba Sumer and Kevin Danso are there and like there's all of the staff as well and then James Madison's kind of like running on the pitch it's like it's just the most perfect chaos yeah that you could have possibly ever asked for I'm sure it's the same for you right when the full turn whistle goes people just not really knowing who to jump on and who to grab and you're all just kind of like hugging everyone is the best it was the same everywhere over all around the world and that's why it was such a magical thing like the world's biggest soccer tournament has arrived and you can trade the entire tournament on kalshi on kalshi you can trade every match from the opening stage all the way to the final on kalshi you're trading against peers in a live market meaning there's no house and as the probability changes you can buy in and out of your position for a Limited time, download the CalShe app and use code CUP26 to get$10 when you trade 10.

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24:24So I have this weird thing, Ben, is I can't watch back. I find it difficult watching back media and footage of great moments in Spurs' history. I don't know what it is about me. I think it's something psychologically, there's a block in me, right? For example, and this makes much more sense, but the winning Ajax, I don't enjoy watching that. And I think I don't enjoy watching it because I know what comes next. It's that we lose to Liverpool. And don't get me wrong, that Ajax game, I was in Amsterdam. It was the same for everybody else, but one of the greatest games, if not the greatest game I will ever watch Spurs play in.

25:04Weirdly with this, I'm almost like I've captured this in my brain. And I know what it was. And it was incredible. And almost like I'll feel a melancholic feeling if I go back and watch a bit of footage of things gone by, right? It's a melancholy. But I get that. I totally get that. However, I watched the Winners documentary. Oh, did you? Oh, cool. What do you think? About two weeks ago. Did you enjoy it? I loved it. Mate, I absolutely loved it. I'm so glad. You guys did an incredible job. and obviously you've got such great raw material on top of the fact that you we we win in the end so it's a fairy tale story but the way it's pieced together the pace of it the interviews is such a good piece of work um how much are you involved in that what is this so I just did the interviews for that that was my kind of that was my role in that I was doing the interviews of all the players and we picked them up as we went.

26:07Like I said, we kind of, we're doing, we're doing these kind of like 10 to 15 minutes sit downs over the course of the season. And I guess the best thing about that is that you're getting, I think as the season was going, there was this building sense of momentum and this feeling like this is actually getting more and more likely, not less likely. It's not like, oh, the games are getting harder. we could like fall short here it was like the game's getting harder we're getting closer to it and we feel like it's going to happen so then when you're doing the interviews people people are knowing what they're coming to sit down for you know it's not a one thing that people might not I think there's a natural inclination to assume that that the average player does two hours of training and then that's their lot and they nip home.

27:04In an average week, I'd say every player will do maybe one or two bits of media, depending on what's going on. They'll do something in the community, they'll do something after training, they'll do, like, they'll have two games on top of it as well. They spend a lot of time at the training ground, so naturally, when they go to an interview, the first thing you've got to do is ensure that they're not going to be like, okay, well, I'm knackered. What do you need sort of thing? And we had a bit of a dream ticket there. Because we were talking about something they were mad passionate about and they were having this incredible experience along the way.

27:46So to sit with Brennan after he scored that goal, and let's face it, had made sure to enjoy himself for a couple of days afterwards. The fact that he even came and did the kind of like 10, 15 minutes afterwards with us was was like very very good of him but to do those interviews is it like it's something i'll never forget like unbelievable what um so so how does the training do you have to fit around training your work you know you're interviewing previewing games like you've got villa as we record villa game on sunday so what goes into your preparation for that like how do you know who you're speaking to do you get to choose what players you want are they giving to you it kind of really varies.

28:29Some weeks, everything is obviously, at the moment, everything's quite regimented because when you've got Champions League to take care of as well, the average kind of week goes, so maybe you've got a game on Saturday. I think that the team will try and get a day's rest somewhere so that there's no one at the training ground. So then you kind of almost like lose a day from a media point of view. and then you've got a you might then be into like a match day minus one on a on a Monday sorry that's very jargony I know that probably sounds really quite pretentious but you kind of have like if the game's on a Tuesday on the day before a Champions League day like the club's obliged to put up the manager and a player and usually that'll be a senior player because the media will want to hear from either the captain or one of the vice captains in a press conference so we'll always try and speak to whoever's doing the press conference um which is great because getting those the the little things that make the difference um like if we use like the the overlap for example like when when you go and do the fan debates doing the actual show is is one thing but i imagine the bit that makes a difference for you is having like those five ten minute interactions with jamie carrigo or paul skulls when you're not recording because that's the bit where you actually maybe get to know them a ton a bit more and they might feel comfortable to then give you a little nibble or something because they feel like they know you a bit better do you know what I mean yeah yeah so those those those little passive bits of time that you get with the players in between before those interviews are really really crucial um and then what's crucial in developing a relationship and and so that they understand you and yeah yeah and and also so that you don't when you're when these interviews tend to be quite short, right?

30:18They're five to 10 minutes and you need to get something like we were saying at the top, you need to get something that fans feel is helpful or interesting or, or actually gonna develop a bit of a narrative so that they can get their teeth stuck into what's going on. If you have to, if you're sitting down and you have to spend five minutes trying to almost get to know someone in an interview, the interview is already over. so you almost need to start on the B of bang and like get get straight into it so that you can provide value straight away um so those interviews that we did for for the winners documentary have been like unbelievably helpful um and then so then you'll have a champions league game you'll then do interviews after the game if it's a home game I'll do the interviews after a home game always praying that we win because those interviews are obviously a lot a lot more fun to do and then go on.

31:10Can I ask you about the, look, I appreciate that you're an employee at a football club and this might be something awkward to answer, but is there been a, what's the differences between interviewing Postacoglu and Thomas Frank? They're so different. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. Very, like this is, I know it probably sounds like quite an awkward question to ask, but actually I think it's really, for me, it's like very, very simple. Every person that you speak to has got a different way that they want to talk. Every single person that you interview has got a different way in which they want to receive questions, but also the way that they want to respond to questions.

31:46And for whatever people thought of Ange, whether people loved his style or didn't like his style or felt that he was kind of difficult in press conferences or loved his press conferences, for me, the thing that I took the most from him was that he made me have to be at my very best like because he didn't if he didn't like a word in something that I said or if he felt that I'd used the incorrect word he'd make sure to tell me and like maybe that says something weird about the type of person that I am but I loved the fact that I had to be flawless like I had to turn up and if I hadn't done my preparation he would let me know and I love that I love the fact that you couldn't just phone it in with him like you you had to make sure that you were well researched and that you gave him questions he didn't want you to tell him what you thought like if you go back and listen to any interview that I've done with him sort of post match or pre-match or any of the features that we did with him you should never with Ange it's never about putting your opinion in the question because that's the thing that he didn't like he didn't like he wanted you to provide a platform for him to give an answer and I think that is totally fair like I think that is yeah mostly your job in that realm yeah a hundred percent like and and there I think there's a natural inclination right when particularly if you're working for the club is that there's a natural inclination that you feel a sense of pride and defense and loyalty to the to the club that you almost want to soften questions up but I always tried with Ange to make sure that whenever I offered him up a question it was a something you call like a a bald question which is basically a question with less context and more kind of like you tell me kind of thing yeah and frank what's what's what's he like to speak thomas is like he's an unbelievable thomas is big thing i i think anyway he's he's massive on culture and relationships um and like you you you um read the the vince ragari book right and and like are basically on the take for, for commission.

33:54Um, but, uh, but he explains within that, right. That the Angie, Angie's thing is that he's, he's trying to build relationships in a certain way. He like every place that he's been to, he's very keen to kind of like ensure that there's a type of culture that he wants. Thomas is just slightly different. Thomas's culture is like Thomas spent a lot of time speaking to people he really wants to get to know people he really wants everyone to feel um very kind of um I don't whenever I sit down with him he he always asks how I am he always sort of checks in and and we'll spend a bit of time and um and and he's a he's a real real fun person to interview because he really really listens to the question as well he really wants he's like right okay what have you asked there let me give you and an amazing thing with thomas frank i think if you like ever see him in press conferences or interviews if he doesn't understand a question or if he doesn't he doesn't guess he'll like sit there and be like what do you what do you mean and he's not being rude he's just like no what do i want to answer the question so tell me what it is that you're asking don't fluff it up or dress it up like tell me what you want and i think that's amazing i really like that yeah no i the feeling I get, um, the feeling I had under And was unbridled optimism from the, from the, from the off.

35:22Um, and it was emotional. It was an emotional relationship that I had, uh, you know, parasocial relationship I had with him, didn't know existed, but the, you know, how I felt about him and what he was trying to create, I was emotionally invested. Whereas Frank, I feel so calm. Are all batteries the same? That's like asking if all soccer players are the same. Take Messi, the most decorated player ever. Is there any other player who has achieved that? No, just him. Now take Duracell. Is there any other battery with Power Boost ingredients inside? No, just Duracell. Remember, goats only trust goats because they're built different.

36:03And Messi only trusts Duracell.

36:08This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18+. Hey, it's Bill from the Bill Simmons Podcast. FIFA World Cup 26 fans, listen up. Is the official beer sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 26?

36:40Michelob Ultra is giving away$1 million worth of FIFA World Cup 26 tickets and prizes. Enter now at MichelobUltra.com slash Superior Access slash FIFA World Cup 26. Michelob Ultra FIFA World Cup 26, Superior Access, no purchase necessary. Open U.S. Residence 21 Plus begins on December 1st, 2025, ends on July 31st, 2026, multiple entry periods. Visit www.miclobaltra.com slash Superior Access slash FIFA World Cup 26 for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details. And he has this calm demeanour around him. And I feel like it's not the most exciting way for me to talk about football, but it makes me feel comfortable that more or less he'll make the right decision.

37:15And if you keep making the right decisions, generally on the pitch, you'll see that play out. Don't you love that though? Yeah. Watching as a Spurs fan, feeling like at 60 minutes, he's going to suddenly just do something and you don't really know what he's doing, but you're like, this is going to make things better. I love it, Ben. I'm so comfortable I'm so happy I'm so much happier I've gone calmer in my life I'm having better relationships with my children what a joke huh that that are silly thing like football has such a dramatic effect over our mental well-being I know mate but why what are we doing if it doesn't impact us in any way why do we do it it's an amazing thing um you know I've said for a long time like how why do we let something that we absolutely can't control control us absolutely and it's because it gives us something that we can't get elsewhere.

38:08So I've got a couple more questions, Ben. Go on, go on, go on. Sorry, I realise I'm probably rambling a lot. No, no, no, mate, this is fantastic. That's absolutely superb stuff.