Inside The Guéhi Deal | The Football Boardroom

18:53Henry Winter:And Steve's gone on the record saying, you know, we can't keep him. So I think they think that they don't want to get drawn into having to pay Palace anymore by a negotiation. If we just wait till deadline day and give them a tioli, take it or leave it.

19:10Christian Purslow:And that's what they did. They'd also bought another centre-half, Leone, who got injured. So it then transpired as the month wore on that they would need to move for Gay.

19:20Henry Winter:But I guess I just want to land this point that for the sake of two, three, four million pounds, they put themselves in a position. You get to the 1st of September, they look really smart. You know, they've basically got fantastic new forward line. However you look at it, they've managed to land Isaac and they've got Gehi in the building, having his photo, having had his scan. And then lo and behold, an injury kicks in. Palace do not have a centre-back and have to pull the deal. And I simply believe that at any point in the three weeks before that, For the sake of one, two or three million, Gahey would have been in the building earlier.

20:00Henry Winter:And with the benefit of hindsight, this is what then happens. Think about our themes. As I say, eight days after that window shut on the 8th of September, an off-field matter, an out-of-court settlement of a court case that seems rather remote to Manchester City and Liverpool. But my point for our listeners is the politics of football, the rules, the negotiations, the skill with which City engineered that out-of-court settlement, actually, four months later in January, has a direct impact, A, on Liverpool, because suddenly City are even more emboldened to bring their financial strength to the equation, to do a deal for Gahit in January, which Liverpool refused to countenance and compete on.

20:47Henry Winter:And you may wonder, you know, if you'd been Liverpool, you know, should they have gone head to head with City last week for Gehi?

20:56Christian Purslow:Would it? You know how I love to bring in the human and the emotional into your boardroom world of Pound, Shalins and Pence. You do, Henry. You're very sensitive to soul. And cold-hearted businessmen moving these wonderful footballers around. If Mark Gehi, OK, so we're looking at Alexander Izak and the way he behaved in that month.

21:15Henry Winter:Yeah.

21:15Christian Purslow:And you contrast that with Mark Gahey, who is a very religious individual. His father's a pastor. He's incredibly professional. The fact that he carried on captaining and leading and playing so well. Well, you mentioned the Villa game. The Villa game. That night he played before heading to Liverpool.

21:31Henry Winter:And, of course, my old club, on the same match, Emi Martinez thought he was going to Manchester United the next day and didn't play.

21:40Christian Purslow:Gahey would have been at Liverpool if he'd stamped his feet and Palace thought, right, let's move him on.

21:46Henry Winter:On deadline day?

21:47Christian Purslow:Probably before, because I think if he'd said, I'm not going to play, and then they would have seen a rapidly depreciating asset and thought, well, if we can get 30 million from Liverpool now. I think you're completely right.

21:59Henry Winter:Or even at the most basic level, we can say, and I've already said to you, let me be clear, as a strictly financial matter, Mark would have made more money waiting to the summer. Let's be real. I'm absolutely certain.

22:11Christian Purslow:In terms of wages or the price? signing plus wages either or there's no question about that so this is a footballer for whom it

22:19Henry Winter:isn't all about the money we can conclude that from the mere facts that he did this essentially palace getting a 20 million pound transfer fee eight into the available funding for that footballer to take a signing bonus or and his agent and so that's really clear but the fact he didn't spit the dummy you know imagine six o 'clock on deadline day he was a liverpool player seven o 'clock he was not he didn't sulk and whinge and whine he got his head down and thought you know what it wasn't meant to be i'll move in january or the summer didn't miss a beat at palace i agree with you on that but but i still come back to liverpool what looked like a bold brave summer of proper net investment and spending henry um i think they were pennywise pound foolish on on mark gahey in the summer and I find that rather strange and I think I can absolutely see how they thought if they played the deadline day game wait they thought the power was with them on deadline day and it failed to acknowledge that in fact events can kick in an injury and suddenly they haven't got the player and then my secondary point the off the field events after the window closed between September and January, in my opinion, changed Manchester City's willingness to do whatever it took to get Gehi this week.

23:43Henry Winter:And Liverpool could not compete with that.

23:46Christian Purslow:Events. Events, dear boy, events, as Howard McMillan said about the Profumo affair. Take me into the Crystal Palace boardroom. They are dealing with events. They're dealing with a player not coming, who they thought might be the replacement for Mark Gehi. They're dealing with a manager in Oliver Glasner who is also running down his contract and that's the way his career's gone and he has every right to do that and he was probably expecting because he's brought two trophies in to Crystal Palace with the obviously the FA Cup, amazing day out at Wembley and the Community Shield, amazing day out at Wembley.

24:22Christian Purslow:He is their most successful manager of all time but there are increasing tensions between him and the board partly because he's not going to sign a new contract and partly because he is increasingly exasperated as what he said feeling abandoned and then after the Sunderland game, within 20 minutes of the Sunderland game, going on the BBC, going into the press conference and saying, I have had the heart. He said the heart, quite emotive language. Being absolutely abandoned is emotive enough, throwing the board on the bus, but then saying we've had the heart torn out of us, not once but twice, with Eze going before the start of the season to Arsenal, an important player for them.

25:07Christian Purslow:And then with Mark Gay, then going to Manchester City. And he effectively said that he was trying to pick his team and then got told Mark Gay couldn't play. Do you think the timeline bears that out? Just look at the back page headlines. I mean, they were basically saying that Gay was going to be leaving about a week before. Days before that game. So take me into the boardroom on that Saturday evening when you've got your manager throwing a meltdown. As a journalist, I absolutely love a carnage press conference, and I'm sure you hated them when they happened with your managers. But look, it was great copy, the copy coming out of the Stadium of Light, Stadium of Delight, as we would call it as journalists, because it was just great copy.

25:53Christian Purslow:And he'd done a brilliant press conference. I mean, it's like London buses. Suddenly, we got these two great press conferences, Yeah. And, but you are Steve Parrish, who A, is a fan and he's a chairman, he is wallet and he is head as well. He loves his football, knows his football, loves Palace, but also admires sustainability, which he has to in the age of PSR. I think people sort of understand that. What is your view when you've got, you know, you've had overseas owners. How does, how does that work on a Saturday night? Take me into the mindset in the boardroom.

26:28Henry Winter:Well, let me say before I say that, that so I really admire Oliver Glasner. Bit of a trade secret. I interviewed Oliver Glasner at the time when we hired Unai. He was on our short list. I interviewed him in his man flat in Frankfurt, which was literally a fridge, a bed and a huge TV screen. His family weren't with him. He was all in on his job. I've never forgotten the meeting. I was with Johan, who's my sporting director. He had done huge profiling on the four or five managerial candidates and asked me to go with him to meet with Oliver. I liked him immensely. I was highly impressed.

27:06Christian Purslow:Why?

27:07Henry Winter:Well, everything about him, his preparation for that meeting was superb. Likeable guy? Yeah, really, extremely likeable, as I say, living in an extremely modest and extremely cold rental apartment in Frankfurt because he's all in on his job. He basically said he would get up very early in the morning, go to the training ground and come back to his flat. And it was basically a bed and a fridge. And I was really struck by that, you know, none of the trappings of success. But, yeah, I really liked him. And I was absent. And obviously we didn't hire Oliver. But I was really pleased when not so long later he got himself a great job in the Premier League with Steve.

27:47Henry Winter:And I'm not hugely surprised how well he's done for them.

27:51Christian Purslow:Did Steve contact you or did you have any?

27:53Henry Winter:Listen, we did speak. We did, yeah. I gave Oliver reference, actually, to Steve when he asked. And I'm happy I did.

28:02Christian Purslow:So he knew that you'd approached or been to talk to him? Yeah, I can't remember how. I mean, you get on with Steve. Did you just say, I've heard you being linked with this manager, by the way? We're great friends.

28:11Henry Winter:I can't remember how the conversation happened. That's good. But we're great friends. We don't expect clubs to help each other, but that's good to know. Yeah, maybe you're right. But I think I was probably out by then. I can't remember the timing, but I definitely really like Oliver Glasner and I'm not hugely surprised how well he's done. By the way, I should say, because I'm sure you're thinking, yeah, I thought the comments were unnecessary and they didn't quite hold true because it was a bit emotive to, you know, two times I've picked the team and then had a player plucked out. The timeline doesn't reflect.

28:41Henry Winter:In both cases, that's an exaggeration. It's not the actual call.

28:45Christian Purslow:You'd also be a bit annoyed if you are the two American co-owners and Steve Parrish, and two of them showed me round the academy across the road from the main training ground where they are developing these good kids, some of whom were on the bench. Within 12 miles of Selhurst Park, you would find the birthplaces of probably about 10 or 12 current England or recent England internationals. You know, you think of the Losters Cheeks, Wilf Saha as well, I mean. Esri Konza, my boy, came from Charlton. Emil Smith-Rowe before he went across London. So, yeah, absolutely. So I would have been frustrated if I've invested all this money in this fantastic facility across the road and you've got all these kids coming through and their parents are listening in to Oliver Glasner saying basically he doesn't rate the kids.

29:35Christian Purslow:And it's partly his fault that he hasn't rotated the team enough that they slightly sought it.

29:41Henry Winter:Dummy post-match. What did you make of no subs? I mean, that's your...

29:44Christian Purslow:I mean, he was making a point. Which was? I've got a small squad and I'm good, but I keep on having players taken away from me. And it's ridiculous. I'm being abandoned.

29:56Henry Winter:You asked me about the phone call. Let's go to it. Okay. So that would have been right up there in the phone call. So in the connected world in which we live in, wherever David Blitzer and Josh Harris are in the world, if our listeners don't know, I think these two gentlemen, Josh Harris, David Blitzer, from my world, They're private equity people by background who, having made billions in that world, have become huge investors in sport. I don't think anybody has more football investments in the world than David. And Josh owns the Washington Commanders. They together owned the Sixers. These are serious global sports investors, multi-billionaires who are the largest shareholders in Crystal Palace.

30:42Henry Winter:but they're they've got a lot on their plate and Steve as their partner is the guy in the trenches running it for them looking it after for them and um and who would have been you know on that on that phone call with I suspect two absolutely incandescent American owners what the f is going on why is this guy slagging us off he knew Mark would be leaving we told him a week ago and what the F is he doing not putting substitutes on? You know, I'd love someone to do a check for me, but I cannot remember a Premier League match in memory where... I think it's the first time. I can't remember a game where there was no substitution.

31:25So this is not a bit of a gesture.

31:28Henry Winter:It's a completely remarkable thing to do. Extraordinarily provocative. Two fingers to the board? Well, if I'm sitting in wherever I am in the world, David and Josh and see that and hear it. Yeah, I feel completely incandescent because in the Premier League, every point counts. Every place is three million pounds. It's their investment. So please have no illusions. They would have been as angry as Jim Ratcliffe would have been when Amirim chucked him and his team under the bus, or Desmond when Brendan Rodgers said, I asked for a Ferrari and I got a Honda, or Todd Bowley and Badadibali when recently Maresca did the same thing.

32:11Henry Winter:So a lot of people have been going under the bus before. It's very interesting, isn't it? And we should talk more about that actually another day. But yes, if you are the guys writing the checks, you think you've got a professional working relationship with your manager and he publicly does you over, they're human beings. They would be absolutely furious. But let's draw a contrast. You know, Mareska Maramerin did it. Within days, they're gone. The natural reaction, I can't have a guy working for me who doesn't respect the money, doesn't respect the owner.

32:42Christian Purslow:Did you expect them to bomb Glasner out on that Saturday night?

32:47Henry Winter:Well, I know Steve really well, OK? And I really... Steve is thoughtful and he's been around a long time and he prides himself on being his own man and thinking independently. I really like that. side of his character. And so I think, and I've been in that phone call, trust me, many, many times. I've been, you know, I've been, Steve and I, in many respects, mirror each other. I'm the guy in the trenches doing the day-to-day with my owners who've got lots of business interests, every, you know, five minutes after every match, having the debrief. I know what those calls are like. And in this case, you know, it would have been high octane.

33:29Henry Winter:But I think he will have said, I'm furious too and I completely understand and it's totally out of order and I wish I could make it, not so. And I bet you they'd have said, this is gross misconduct, go fire the guy. That would have been in a moment of emotion. Compensation would have been modest

33:47Christian Purslow:because he's only got a few months left on his contract. Would that have featured a couple of million? What would it have been?

33:53Henry Winter:Listen, if he's on six million a year and he's got six months to go, in principle it may have been three million to get him out of the building that day. But there definitely wouldn't have been a discussion about whether he's owed any money because can we soon? Steve would have said, look.

34:07Christian Purslow:On that, could they have looked at his contract and saying once more into the breach, dear friends, and there is a breach of contract there? Well, that's my point that they would have. So not to pay him. That's the point I mean.

34:19Henry Winter:Yes, we call that termination for cause is the American way of describing that. Cause meaning you have done something to breach your contract that breaches it. we owe you no payoff. I'm sure that would have gone through their mind. But Steve would have said, look, nobody wins in that situation. So the guy's out the door. He sues us for wrongful dismissal. We're in court for a year. It's all through the papers. And in the end, we end up paying him anyway, because courts definitely favour employees in that situation. We need to turn this around. We need to try and find a way to have alignment, not estrangement.

34:57Henry Winter:I think the way his mind would have gone is we've got a major trophy opportunity which is the Conference League. I think they're probably Bookie's favourites to win that. For a club that's only won one trophy in its history to win another, what a way for Glasner to go out. What a great outcome for Palace and their fans and you mentioned Steve's a fan. Definitely better. Palace's prospects of winning that trophy are higher with a motivated and focused Glasner than with a caretaker or a new manager where they're not his players, where he's joining mid-scene and with no pre-season. So he'd have looked at that and said, I've got to keep him in the building.

35:31Henry Winter:One, I'm not paying him off. If you want to go, Oliver, go. But that's you walking out the door and you're leaving us with no option and no money changes hands. And he'd have said to his American colleagues, if he wants to do that, we can't stop him. And he goes. but I'm going to be saying to him, look, we all know that, you know, you want to get a big job in the summer. Your chances of getting that big job will be enhanced by going out on a high, winning two trophies at Crystal Palace when it's never won any in the preceding hundred years. And yes, I'm going to say it. People like David Blitzer and Josh Harris and Steve Parrish saying that we had our differences, but he's a great coach and behind the scenes we admired him when those reference calls come in the summer from big clubs, as opposed to a guy who chucks his owners under the bus, gets a little bit over-emotional, lost 10 games in a row and then tried to blame everybody other than himself.

36:23Henry Winter:That isn't a great look to end. So I think relying on Glasner's motivation and ambition to bring him back in the tent, swallowing your pride because they would have been very hurt as owners, I think was really smart. And that's what I think Steve's done.

36:39Christian Purslow:Parrish has done well there.

36:40Henry Winter:Now, we don't know whether it sticks, Henry. Oliver could escalate this week with another diatribe and leave them no option. But my feeling is cool heads have prevailed and a big tick for Steve on that.

36:52Christian Purslow:Yeah, I bet Roy Hodgson is going into the attic and getting out his old Crystal Palace tracksuit. I mean, let's hope he stays because he is a fantastic manager. So just to wrap this up, where are we with these three clubs? Who are the winners and losers? and if anyone can draw in a circumstance like that. From your take, from what you're saying, Manchester City are clear winners on and off the pitch because they've got an outstanding player who they absolutely need. Financially, it makes sense for them, the APT element. But where does this leave Liverpool?

37:27Henry Winter:Well, look, again, with the benefit of hindsight, it would seem that they've had defensive issues this season. They've also had issues that, you know, many, many... I mean, I remember Rafa telling me, you know, he was like a guru. My first job, I'd never been in professional football and I'd find myself, you know, Liverpool Chief Exec, working with a man of his experience as such. And he taught me so much. But one of his truisms, he always told me that it was very difficult to accommodate forwards who all thought they should be starting in the same 11. and it was very difficult to sign, you know, two, three, four forwards as Ferguson famously had four, didn't he, when they won the treble.

38:13Henry Winter:Rafa thought that was naturally a very difficult thing to do and there are many people in football who would say that Liverpool were asking for trouble.

38:20Christian Purslow:Particularly now with most teams only playing one up.

38:22Henry Winter:Yeah, exactly. But to keep Mo, who has a huge stature in the club and then go do Wurtz, who in most clubs would be the main man, And Isak, who was the main man, and Eketike, who I think has surprised the upside so far. So, you know, I think that, honestly, they will say they didn't really need or want Gehi that much. But I don't think many Liverpool fans would agree with that. I definitely think they expected to get him later, having done all the work in the summer to get him close to Arnie Slott, get him in the building. Probably didn't anticipate City going hard in the January. I think they thought they'd be in a fair fight next summer with no transfer fee.

39:04Henry Winter:Bit naive. I think they were a bit too attracted and a bit too cute. No transfer fee, get him in the summer. He'll still come to us because he loves us. Bit naive. City came in, guns blazing and blew them out the water this week with the transfer. So definitely City 1, Liverpool 0. The little angle on the APT case, you know, I'm sure the clubs were asked by the Premier League, are we all cool with us settling this out of court?

39:30Christian Purslow:You love your APT, don't you?

39:31Henry Winter:Look, I just think that that was a brilliant, brilliant result for City and a less good result for the league. I think it's real simple. You know, the APT rules continue for another nine years. You know, that's how long...

39:43Christian Purslow:I think I'm going to leave you in this pod with a camera pointing at you and a microphone. You can talk about APT for an hour while I go and put some more money in the meter. You're right. No, it's very important. And it's so important that you've actually bought your expertise and your knowledge and how APT would affect something as important for fans as buying the right players. But the club that he has left behind, where does it leave Kiko Palace? That's the key question, isn't it?

40:08Henry Winter:I would say off the field, Palace have got themselves a£20 million, you know, windfall that probably there was a real chance that clubs would sit back and wait till the summer.

40:21Christian Purslow:Chelsea get a small slice of it because of their great academy where Gaze started.

40:25Henry Winter:They've got time to really think carefully about how they replace Glasner, and time is a big advantage. I certainly wouldn't want to be leaving that late in the summer. So I suspect that Steve... They'll know, don't they? I don't know if they'll know yet.

40:37Christian Purslow:But surely everyone has a succession plan, particularly for someone, a manager running out of contract.

40:41Henry Winter:They'll have been monitoring managers, and there's been a lot going on off the field at Palace as well. Dougie Friedman left, Steve and he were very close. Dougie would probably have been in charge of keeping a watching brief on long-term replacements for Glasner. but things change you know you have to have a lot of irons in the fire because this summer is going to be the most significant managerial mario go round i think we've ever seen i can't wait to talk to you about it but just think with with two colancellotti and pochettino coming out of world cup deals glasner free iraiola probably free and then on the other side of the managerial equation is Thomas going to see it through at Spurs Thomas Frank I mean you know he's right on the cusp isn't it is Arnie going to come good in the second half of the season so much more room I'm hearing so much speculation we must do another pod we should

41:34Christian Purslow:on managers we should definitely but thank you for deciphering the code of Gay's move and throwing some letters in there APT well thank you very much see you next week see you next week

41:57Henry Winter:This episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing Company. No matter how you do game day, on the couch, in the crowd, or manning the snack table, Athletic Brewing fits right in. With a full lineup of non-alcoholic beer styles, you can enjoy bold flavors all game long. No hangovers, no buzz, no subbing out for water in the second half. Stock the fridge for tip-off with a variety of non-alcoholic craft styles available at your local grocery store or online at athleticbrewing.com. Your beer, fit for all times. Thought Sweetgreen was just salads? Think again. There's a new way to do Sweetgreen. Wrapped and ready.

42:34Henry Winter:These handheld wraps pack bold flavor and 40-plus grams of protein into something hearty, satisfying, and built for life on the go. From craveable sauces to satisfying textures. They're designed to keep you going without slowing you down. So put that fork down. Try the new wraps today in app or at order.sweetgreen.com. Available at participating locations only.