Should Arsenal fans be careful what they wish for? | The Football Boardroom

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1:00Henry:This week, we're going to take a look at Arsenal Football Club through the same lens we applied last week with Chelsea. What is the strategy of this club? Who are the key people behind the scenes? What do the numbers tell us? What happens next? And most crucially, what is the future for Mikel Arteta? Before we get to that, we're going to discuss the big news out of West Ham that Karen Brady has departed. Please don't forget to subscribe and we really hope you enjoy the show.

1:35cp good to see you i see you've just landed in warm uh sunny climbs uh while you were in the air another high flyer karen brady has stood down at west ham united and uh so and i'm landing this on you just after you've landed but uh you know what's what's your take you'd obviously have known her through premier league meetings what what's uh what's your reaction it's very big news because

1:59Henry:she's a very consequential person in the football world, in the business world, and in Britain as a whole, really. She's a very public figure. And I speak as a peer and a rival, obviously, for my entire time in football, which began in 08-09. She has been a fellow club chief exec. and actually I think it's really significant that in my first summer Premier League shareholders meeting was when I first met her and Birmingham City where she like me was the MD I was the MD of Liverpool they had just been re-promoted and she left soon after actually and then with virtually no break reappeared at West Ham so for my whole career but the important point is you know I feel like I've got a lot of years on the clock and a lot of cumulative experience in football.

2:53Henry:When I met her making my debut, she'd already been in the game 15 years, Henry, which speaks to absolutely remarkable longevity. She's by far the longest serving chief exec in the Premier League in football. And she happens to be a woman as well. And I can't help but note when I scanned down last night, although there've been a couple of female chief execs over the years. She's the only one and she's announced her departure today. So absolutely formidable longevity experience. And the second thing I would say as a peer rival is a person for whom I have the utmost most respect in terms of her ability as a business person absolutely outstanding abilities skills and qualities as a business executive i wish i had had and did not have that's how highly i rate her i first met karen in the mid-90s actually atst angeles birmingham city and i I was immediately struck by, well, our industry, the media industry, and the boardrooms of the time, very much a male-dominated industry, pretty much still is.

4:14I mean, you know, you mentioned other female chief executives. Susan Whelan has left Leicester City, a loss to them. Denise Barrett-Baxendale moved from the community side into the sort of main building at Everton and helped them through a difficult time in COVID. And as you say, Karen has had this remarkable longevity. The toughness that she has needed in a pretty sexist world at times is remarkable. But it'll be interesting to see the legacy. And I want to get your take on this. Because she will be defined and remembered within football, amongst West Ham fans in particular, by the move 2013.

4:572013 it was first mooted and then 2016 the move to what she called a world-class stadium in the Olympic Stadium and obviously got a fantastic deal there for the club but there was always a feeling that it's not a football stadium it's an athletic stadium and her pretty much her promise I mean she said to the fans when they move from their ancestral home that very intimate intimidating venue at Upton Park, which must have been for so many of the West Ham fans, like leaving home, all those match day rituals, all those memories, and going into a soulless bowl. But the price that was going to be paid, the good bits, supposedly, and the promise from Karen and the board, was that they would have a world-class team in a world-class stadium.

5:43And I think it's fair to say that neither have actually transpired. The team is fighting relegation. and we are going to go into this in far more depth, looking at the team, looking at Nuno, looking at the recruitment. But I think, CP, you'll agree that's a full episode in itself. But just to wrap up on Karen, from my perspective and talking to West Ham fans and people around the club, I think she lost a bit of connection with the supporters in terms of some of the ticketing, the attack on concessions, which I think, in fairness, the club relented on. But there were elements of heritage. Was it going to be called West Ham Olympic, the London in the crest?

6:25There were elements there which I think she kind of lost that connection with the fans. I think some of the abuse that she's been taken on social media has been absolutely despicable. And some people should look at themselves. But I think it's, you know, we have to put it into perspective that she probably did more for West Ham United shareholders than she did for the supporters.

6:48Henry:As a matter of pure business, the deal on the move was so extraordinary. And you're quite right, she has been credited with that in every single respect from a business standpoint. Sometimes a deal is too good. The people she worked for, and she was an extraordinarily loyal chief executive, she's worked her entire career in football for David Sullivan. And indeed, she leaves and he stays. and I absolutely agree with you there's so much to talk about in a full-blown assessment of West Ham where they are stay up or go down this is a seriously challenging period for this football club that faces I think as we said in a prior episode major restructuring of the team and the finances over the summer whether they stay up or god forbid go down and we should look into that And that looms large on the timing of Karen's exit, because if she wasn't up for the long haul and going through that yet again, then it's the right time for someone else to step in.

7:51Henry:But yes, sometimes the deal's just too good. And if you're in a room with an owner where you're essentially delivering for absolutely peanuts on a rental basis for almost indefinitely access to, quote, a 60 ,000-seater stadium in London. That's probably about the best I could say for that. Saving an owner the five, six, seven, eight hundred million pounds that Everton have spent billion pounds, others have spent five billion that, you know, has been spent in America. Saving hundreds of hundreds of millions by a very smart rental deal. Sometimes a deal is just too good and you might lose sight of the bigger picture, which is, will the fans like it?

8:34Henry:Will the fan experience be up to it? Will it end up being actually the wrong sort of legacy? I'm sure it drives her mad that she's so criticised for that. And that is, you're quite right, going to be a big part of the story. But I think we should dig in and really try and get behind the scenes on what's happening in the boardroom at West Ham, because I think her departure is part of a major change now between David Sullivan, Daniel Kratinsky, both of whom I think are stepping up their ownership, the Gold family being out. And I think Karen's exit needs to be looked at in the context of those changes and in the context of what the club faces this summer.

9:14Henry:But I say again, one of the most capable business people I have ever met in any walk of life. And I've been in business 40 years. Just quickly, because we need to move on to Arsenal. But, you know, their biggest signing was is Declan Rice, 105 million. and Kratinsky in his statement and thanks to Karen Brady actually sort of name checks her, the fact that she got that deal over the line and got a British transfer record. Do you know what? I know a little bit about that. Let's finish with this because I think our audience like real life anecdotes to try and bring somebody to life. You've used the word.

9:53Henry:I mean, Tuff does not even begin to describe Karen Brady. Okay. She hasn't been, she'd be the first to say she does not oversee day-to-day football matters never has done under david sullivan but she tends to get pulled in when things are tricky where there's tough conversation to have whether that's letting people go coaches or players and yes tough conversations with other clubs and i happen to know and i'm not i can't go into details but i know and because i was in a similar boat with jack greelich when when it was obvious that it was the summer for declan to go and boy did he you know boy did he earn that big move and left on an absolute high by the way but you know they knew this fellow was worth in the hundreds they wanted to get the record british transfer more than jack and i don't think anybody would dispute that be fair value but as always happens the big clubs think that they can you know destabilize the player make him work his exit and get a lower cost deal and let's just say when when Arsenal tried to do that and sniffing around their player Karen would have picked up the phone and said listen I know what you're doing and it ain't gonna work and back off when you've got the price show up you can buy the player otherwise on your bike and lo and behold they got their price and they would not mess with Karen Brady or West Ham ever again.

11:19Henry:That's the sort of exec she was. And as I say, I think she's going to be a huge miss in the Premier League. Right. Well, let's move on to Arsenal, to Declan Rice's current club. It's not done, he said, about the league. He was obviously very angry at the defeat of the Etihad. There have been a lot of reflections on that. There have also been a few comments about recruitment, about Mikel Arteta's future, about Stan Kroenke. And we've had quite a few comments on the back of particularly your forensic analysis of the Chelsea situation with Arsenal fans and other fans actually saying, well, have a look at Arsenal at the moment.

11:56So I think it's an opportunity today, but, you know, a couple of days after the ETH he had with the dust a little bit settling, but still with sort of headlines talking about Arteta and recruitment, that we have a look at that. I mean, Stan Kroenke is American businessman married into the Walmart dynasty, his wife Anne. They married early in the 70s. He's a very wealthy man. He's obviously got a huge background in sports in the US. He inhabits the world that you lived and worked in, still do. What's your take on him, particularly vis-a-vis with the club and his commitment to the club?

12:38Henry:Yeah, I've had loads of emails this week about, you know, give Arsenal the SPF treatment and the P, the people side of things. Stan Kroenke looms very, very large in this story. And you're quite right. I mean, just for our audience benefit, those who don't know this, if you take away, in effect, the nation states as owners of City and Newcastle, Stan Kroenke's family as the owner of Arsenal is by far the wealthiest owner in the Premier League. And as you say, not only married into the richest, you know, traditional family in America in the Walmart dynasty, but also has made a fortune in two key activities of real estate and sport.

13:25Henry:He's 77 years old now, and his son, Josh, who we should talk about in a second, is a key player also in their sports empire. But the message for our audience and i think the contrast here with other club ownerships and other club models is really stark and important you know to describe this guy as in for the long haul understates it he really he's not only silent stan but he's patently patient stan why do i say that well if we just look at his american businesses firstly he is the most famous i think there are only two really, the most famous trifecta owner, that Americanism, meaning he owns major league teams in three big sports, the Rams in football, and then two Colorado franchises in the NBA and in hockey, and has done so for some time.

14:20Henry:And in the context of the Rams and NFL team, he also showed, I think, some personal qualities beyond patience that Arsenal fans should have no illusions about because I think Stan's got, you know, big cojones, Henry. Moving the Rams back from St. Louis to LA, he copped a lot of flack for that move, but took his time and got it done. And then having done so, oversaw the building of by far the world's most expensive stadium in LA where the Rams now play and indeed where another NFL team share the ground too. And that's all happened over not five minutes, not five years, but over almost 30 years of patient long-term ownership, building very long-term value and creating success in that sense.

15:12Henry:When I look at his time at Arsenal, I think you could observe similar things. The initial period, it was 10 years that he was in the kind of rocky four standoff with uzmanov you know it reminds me of that sort of plucky american up against another impossibly rich uh russian where they had 62 and 30 odd percent of the club in a complete stalemate very lucky at the time to have arsene wenger managing the club but other aspects of that period i think fans would not have enjoyed but essentially a 10 year stalemate where didn't put any more money into the club left it to our center get on running it consistently qualified for europe but didn't really go too close to winning the title in that period but ultimately saw off uzman off by buying him out and that's 10 years not not not a quick flip not a quick panic takeover but in the end got his way and consolidated full ownership of arsenal so two words to summarize Stan Kroenke, patient and tough.

16:23Henry:And that is, I think, what we're going to dig into as we study the other people around Arsenal management in his reign. Just on the toughness, you know, you saw slightly sped through the journey of taking the Rams from St. Louis to LA. I mean, it was pretty controversial. A, can you imagine if someone had done that here? I mean, Wimbledon fans are still almost, certainly a verbal war with MK. Yes, I don't think it's got quite the opprobrium that it would such a move again. It was still a big issue at the time, but I'm also leading on to the fact that Arsenal were, and Kroenke was behind this, certainly very supportive of it, the European Super League, the threat of that.

17:10And Arsenal fans and fans all over the country, quite rightly, rallied against that. So I absolutely take the, not that you've given him a hagiography, but I think that you've rightly praised him. And absolutely that patience, that long-term backing, that building. I mean, he's been in sports since, what, the late 90s. And obviously a fan before that. That is very commendable and very good for Arsenal. But he's not a complete angel. I mean, I covered all that European Super League.

17:37Henry:I think you're misreading and putting words in my mouth. I'm not praising anybody. You always ask me to give it straight as a businessman. I'm telling you, he's worth$30 billion. He's one of the richest men in America. He's the largest landowner in America. He's 77 years old, so he hasn't done it in five minutes. And in that business career in American sport, he has exhibited toughness and patience big deal that's just crystal clear and so far he demonstrated i should say um quite a lot of patience and no shortage of toughness ultimately in seeing off a formidable rival in uzmanov who had a completely different agenda for how the club should be run and I think nine out of ten people in Kroenke's position would have sold out to Usmanov who had impossible wealth and wanted to take control of the club but just said no and in that period I mean you followed the club much more closely than me at that time you know there would have been pressures for that dispute to be resolved much quicker than it was but he just held out and so I just want to draw on that particular personal attribute because I think it's relevant as we move, and we should move now, into the period of Cronky's ownership since 18 when he's owned the club.

19:02Henry:And what is interesting for somebody who has exhibited that very long-term approach to all aspects of creating wealth and success and stability in particularly the coaching area. So Mikel Arteta has now been in post for six full seasons, plus the season he took over in December. So six or seven years in post, hired as a rookie coach. And that's not the first time Stan Kroenke has done that in a major franchise. He hired the youngest ever coach in the NFL, who has been in post now nearly 10 years. So again, no coincidence there. But interestingly, in the boardroom that you and I like to talk about, below Stan Kroenke, in what the Americans would call the C-suite, we might call it the boardroom, the executive lineup.

19:55Henry:There has been significant turnover in the last three, four, five, six, seven years. Four chief executives, Henry, four sporting directors in about seven years. I think that is fascinating. I'm sure our audience would probably like us to focus on where we've ended up. But along that journey, I think, you know, lots of twists and turns as Stan and his son have tried to get the right management lineup to pursue what I think has been an evolving strategy for the football club. This all comes back to the central debate for Arsenal fans at the moment. And really what we should also be focusing on throughout this episode is Arteta's future.

20:41And just taking your point of four chief executives, four sporting directors, but this one constant, the manager. So when I see headlines of Arteta's position criticized or in doubt, and obviously it's a huge debate amongst Arsenal fans. if you conducted a poll of them. It would be interesting to see the split. But actually, he's probably strengthened his position during that journey through the four chief executives for the four sporting directors. And you look at the two individuals who you know, Richard Garlick and Berta, the sporting director who's come in, they're sort of supportive of him.

21:24And in a way, didn't he help appoint or not interview, but was part of the process which ended with Berta getting the job?

21:33Henry:I think so. Look, I'm just making the point about his power base is stronger than people think. Yeah, I agree. I really do agree. And I'm intrigued because normally in describing that number of changes in those two key positions in a club, one would assume a level of you know tumult of chaos of behind the scenes messiness really and most importantly you would think it would impact performance let me just take a one minute segue because this is very important i don't see it that way i see it as a patient process of trial in the people selection function of stan and josh to end up where they want to end up for the very long time for this football club and i say that because all along the constant has been stan cronkey as owner and michael architeta in the coaching position the performance of the business and i have said he's an extremely successful and wealthy businessman and he is an American owner and none of our audience have any illusions about when push comes to shove, American sport is about business.

22:48Henry:We have to say the business has been improving dramatically in recent terms. Just a few headlines. The results that came out recently for 24-25, record revenues, nearly 700 million quid. Massive growth in the last three years, Henry. Much faster growth than And the other members of the big six on all the revenue lines, miles faster growth commercially than their rivals, miles faster growth in match day income than their rivals. And because of the most important point of the lot, which is massive improvement in on-field results, three second places and counting in a row in the Premier League, two semifinals in a row in the Champions League and a quarterfinal before that.

23:36Henry:So the two acid tests of success in European football that generate by far the most money, because of that, their TV income also up miles faster than its rivals. The total income revenue, Henry, in the last three seasons has nearly doubled from the high 300s to the high 600s. That is a formidable improvement in performance. And Stan Kroenke, better than me, better than you, gets the joke that that boils down ultimately to on-field improvement. And so it's no coincidence. But when you start to talk to me about Mikel Arteta, Stan Kroenke's looking at that performance, the link between on-field and results and saying, this is going very, very well indeed.

24:26Henry:from a business meets football standpoint. So he's 100 % safe. Well, that's a, I happen to think from a Stan Kroenke perspective, I can't even imagine why Mikel Arteta's position would be even beyond the agenda. I think we should be, it's miles away from being an issue as far as the owner's concerned. Because as I say, I look at the numbers financially. I look at the steady improvement in on-field results. And if he wants to pick holes in my language, you're good at that. You might say, well, second, second, second isn't improvement, it's flatlining. But in my mind, there's no doubt that the Kroenke family will not even be entertaining the idea that Arteta's performance merits being fired.

25:18Henry:I can't imagine anything less likely looking at where this club is today what i'd like to focus in is what they do next because they have been through this process of an evolving management team ended up as you say henry with these two figures now richard garlic in the chief executive suite and that was after you know started with i'm gazidis vinay who's now at spurs occupied that seat tim lewis a lawyer who worked for the Kroenke family, was the de facto chief executive for a short period of time, and now Richard Garlick. And on the sporting director side, we have Andrea Berta. And that's the triangle, Garlick, Berta, and Arteta.

26:04Henry:And I'd like to unpick that a little bit, because I think the profile of Garlick and of Berta is different to their predecessors. And I think their profile fits better with Arteta. And I think that is indeed what the Kroenke family have been trying to do with their appointment. I think that's encouraging as they go into what is going to be an absolutely key transfer window. And whether they look at deepening the squad as they did last summer, how much they actually improved the first team is actually up for debate. Madiweke came in. Well, that was Bert's first window, wasn't it? It was Andrea arrived just at the end of last season.

26:48Henry:And the 25 window you're alluding to was his first period of work. Eight ins. Just, you know, in case anyone doubts about how much Stan Kroenke's been backing Mikel Arteta, Arsenal were the biggest net spender in the summer of 25. Over 250 million quid on eight footballers led by this new sporting director, Andrea Berta. You tell me whether you think they bought well, but they certainly spent plenty of money. Well, they did. and they strengthened in areas that they needed to. I mean, their issue, clearly, without straying too much onto the inter-headers and volleys, is Jokeres. I mean, I'm a supporter of him, partly because who else was there out there?

27:29There was a possibility of getting Sesko. They were linked with Izak, but he always looked Liverpool-bound from early in the summer. And Arsenal's a big issue. If you put Erling Haaland in that Arsenal team, they would have got the title by now. because it's all about sort of finishing. So I take absolutely your point, and I admire Stan and Josh's long-term patience with Arteta because I've been a supporter of him from the start. Before he got the job, when he was linked with the job, I spoke to Raheem Sterling and I said, listen, he coached you. What is he like? Is he good? How do you think he'll train on taking this?

28:07You know, it's a big step up, that first job at a big club like Arsenal, with all the weight of expectation, not won the title since 2004 on the great invincibles, how do you think he'll do? And Raheem was incredibly supportive and just said he will do well because he makes individual players better. And certainly we've seen that with some of Arsenal players. And then with the backing of the Cronkies, I think they're absolutely moving in the right direction. I understand the concerns of some of the, or many of the Arsenal fans, whether it's, you know, the fans group, the fans media content, which is always a bit lively, or just the sort of, you know, the long-term match-going fans who've been watching for 40, 50 years and just won Arsenal just to get over the line.

28:50We have to caveat all this, but it's not all doom and gloom on the pitch in terms of, you know, they could still do the dream European double of league and Champions League, then the semi-final of the Champions League. And, you know, obviously Manchester City have got the momentum, they've got the players, they've got an elite manager in Pep. absolutely it's going to be a great run to the line. So we have to remember that. But I think that if the worst transpires and they finish second in the league, they'll be accused of bottling it, which is unfair. And if they go out of the Champions League to Atletico Madrid or in the final, I still think they have to stick with Arteta.

29:31You've made a boardroom perspective, a financial perspective of how he's doing. But I think that he absolutely deserves this time. But this transfer window is absolutely key. And I think, as I was saying, last transfer window, as Berta came in, Zubimendi was already on his way. But they actually strengthened the squad. Now they've got to go all out. And it'll take wages, and wages are an issue. I think they're the fourth biggest wages spenders. You know, they're going to have to sort of crank up that to get maybe one or two absolutely elite players that strengthen the first team. So I think it's absolutely a huge summer for them.

30:12But you quite like Berta and Garlick, and you think that is actually going to be a magic triangle, those three?