Spurs Sack Frank | The Football Boardroom

0:00Christian Purslow:Close your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax, and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-CONTACTS. Oh my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste.

0:24Henry Winter:Visit 1-800-CONTACTS.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-CONTACTS. It's tax season, and at LifeLock, we know you're tired of numbers. But here's a big one you need to hear. Billions. That's the amount of money and refunds the IRS has flagged for possible identity fraud. Now here's another big number. 100 million. That's how many data points LifeLock monitors every second. If your identity is stolen, we'll fix it guaranteed. One last big number. Save up to 40 % your first year. Visit LifeLock.com slash podcast for the threats you can't control. Terms apply.

1:05Henry Winter:so h i can't believe it i was just coming up the lift to our regular recording slot here on the strand and about four minutes ago uh i heard that thomas frank has just been fired by spurs we were both watching the game last night and texting each other um i didn't see that coming did you

1:25Christian Purslow:Well, I went on social media this morning and looked at a lot of the reaction of the Tottenham fans and fairly measured Tottenham fans who were basically saying Frank has to go. And just to sort of run quickly through the background, obviously got appointed at the start of the season. 13 wins, 11 draws and 14 defeats. Doing well in the Champions League.

1:47Henry Winter:Very well.

1:48Christian Purslow:But domestically, slight echoes of last season under Ange. terrible in the Premier League. And look, we've talked on this programme about how every position is important, which is something like£2.7 million. So the fact that they're in 16th, you know, that's costly. And of course, there's a spectre of relegation. And of course, they've got the North London derby coming in 10 days, 11 days time. So in a way, the board had to react. As we were saying last night, their fans getting sacked in the morning. They're turned. and the body language of the players. So, I mean, there are various mitigating factors, injuries.

2:24Christian Purslow:We can argue about recruitment. We can argue about the culture of the club. And let's absolutely go into those. But ultimately, he went in there and forgot. Well, he just thought he was still the Brentford manager. And you've worked in these big clubs, Liverpool, Chelsea, Aston Villa. When you go into these clubs, particularly a club like Liverpool, you have to behave like a Liverpool manager. And I don't think when Thomas went from Brentford, where by everyone's judgment, he'd done a fantastic job, was regularly in the running, certainly the shortlist for manager of the year, that he just didn't make that step up.

3:03Christian Purslow:He didn't behave and act like a Tottenham manager.

3:06Henry Winter:No, well, I think the first thing to say is I think the circumstances of his appointment are probably pretty relevant to his demise as well, because looming over all this is the tumultuous news at the beginning of September that the Daniel Levy era was over at Spurs. and of course Thomas was therefore the last really significant appointment of the Levy era and I felt concerned very quickly for Thomas in as long ago as September October because the messaging coming out the club from the Lewis family as as now effectively owners taking a new grip on the club was change is in the air. Lots of positive talk about, you know, loosening off the purse strings somewhat.

3:56Henry Winter:I'm not sure that has happened yet. We'll talk about that. But most significantly, this sort of clean break dynamic. And that made me feel even then when Thomas started quite well, if you remember, that he would be vulnerable if things went badly. And so it came to pass. They've gone terribly, really, particularly at home. And I will say, Henry, I don't think they were intending to fire this guy this morning. I think it sounds as though last night gave them no choice because of the toxic reaction of fans. And my Spurs mates haven't been having Thomas for the last two months.

4:30Christian Purslow:Take me back to the Daniel Levy, because he left after Thomas was appointed. Was Thomas his man? A hundred percent.

4:37Henry Winter:The one thing about Daniel, let's be clear, is that when Daniel's in charge, Daniel's in charge. Again, a lot of the messaging that's been coming out since he left, which was a shock to everybody, including Daniel, by the way. What, when he got called in? Yeah, I think Daniel did not see that coming. Nobody saw that coming. It was one of the biggest shocks I've had in my 18 years in the game. And I think it was a shock to everybody in the club. I think it was a shock to Vinay, who'd been appointed by Daniel to be, as it were, CEO. And a more fan-friendly. But that's a Daniels hands-on executive chairman, okay?

5:15Henry Winter:Not a CEO where the next line up the hierarchy is a distant owner, but a CEO working for, you know, a hands-on executive chairman.

5:23Christian Purslow:But what you're suggesting is that Thomas Frank was then exposed from the start because the person who's appointed him wasn't there.

5:30Henry Winter:I am suggesting that that would be the case. And, but I would say two other things that firstly, maybe we should look at when they made that decision, can we learn anything about where they may go next? But secondly, let me tell you, I remember when Daniel appointed Nuno. And I know for a fact he was seriously considering that summer Antonio Conte. We discussed that at the time. And on balance, he decided to go for Nuno. He very quickly faced up to that mistake and fired Nuno and put Conte in after all. I think this is a hindsight point. but looking at the events of the last couple of months, I think Levy would have faced up to Thomas having, your point, just not landed properly at Spurs, just not got what a massive club it is, just not got how important how they play football is.

6:23Henry Winter:Today there is to do.

6:24Christian Purslow:You don't sit back in numbers and then leave. Solanke last night was just so isolated. It was a very negative Tottenham performance and it was interesting just watching it on the television. and they had Glenn Hoddle as doing the co-coms. And you think what Hoddle is... What an irony. I mean, Hoddle is, you know, the embodiment of the beautiful game to dare is to do. The game is about glory. You know, even in their difficult eras.

6:49Henry Winter:And the thing is, we all know that. We all know that. You don't have to be a Spurs fan to know that that is a key part of their DNA. And don't get me wrong. Again, I want to be clear. I don't think that the new regime, let's look at that, the Lewis, Joe Lewis's daughter, I believe, and her son-in-law as the owners. Vinay as the CEO, Johan Langer as the sporting director. That is the new management regime as of the 5th of September when Daniel left the building.

7:23Christian Purslow:But does it make it easier for them to get rid of someone who wasn't actually their appointment?

7:27Henry Winter:I think it does. I think at the margin. Listen, I don't think there's anything easy about this decision. And I don't think they wanted to make this decision right now for the very obvious point that there isn't an obvious next manager in February, 2026. It's a terrible moment to be trying to scratch around and find a manager. But that said, it most definitely wasn't their appointment and they now will be under the microscope on their next decision. But I do think that they have let this go, frankly, probably a few weeks longer than most people would have.

8:05Christian Purslow:Is that because they are essentially decent individuals? And Thomas is a very likable character.

8:13Henry Winter:You mentioned the word mitigation. And neither of us are here to defend Thomas because I think on the numbers alone, he was lucky to last as long as he did. but the key mitigating factors are one tactical and one strategic. The tactical point, by which I mean the short term, is the injury issue. It's not just a minor injury issue. You know, their three most dangerous, most exciting attacking talents in Kulisevsky, Madison and Solanke until recently were out for months on end. So talk about not playing attacking football. if your three best attackers aren't around, that's a mitigating factor. But the bigger mitigating factor, and this is what I want our listeners to really tune into, is that that new regime at Spurs, we cannot underestimate the seismic impact of Daniel leaving the building.

9:08Henry Winter:He controlled every single aspect of that football club for over 20 years, and a completely inexperienced ownership group in Joe Lewis's daughter is now running the club from an ownership standpoint. A brand new chief executive who did not believe when he accepted the job to work for Daniel that he would be in the hot seat. And Johan Lange as a sporting director with Paratici now having left. So we've got a completely new regime from top to bottom making these decisions. And the one thing I know they felt was that a culture shift was needed in the club. call it getting rid of the Spursy thing call it maybe a different approach to investment and spending than Daniel espoused change in the most broad sense of that word and I think they felt that Thomas was a change agent and they were willing to cut him slack on results longer than many people would have done because they understood that change is going to be really difficult and he ran out of road because in the end, the oldest cliche in football, it's a results business and they weren't good enough age.

10:20Christian Purslow:You and I love players. We love watching players. We grew up sort of admiring these great players. But the players, in this case, also have to take responsibility. We're talking about mitigation and everything is being loaded on Thomas Frank. And maybe we'll have to wait until an interview further down the line and he actually sort of addresses some of the issues. But the players can't walk away today, you know, just smiling. They've got to look at themselves in the mirror and say, did I do enough for this club that pays me well, for these amazing supporters who turn up? You're shaking your head, but actually players are culpable.

10:57Romero, the captain, how has he helped Thomas Frank

11:01Christian Purslow:by behaving the way he did? He hasn't, okay. Are you letting the players off the hook?

11:06Henry Winter:No, but I would look at that slightly differently, H. I think that one of the things I'm afraid one sees in situations where managers get under pressure is perhaps they just go a bit soft. You know, they feel that pressure and feel they need friends, you know, at the training ground and maybe just take it a bit easy. I don't think he handled Romero right from the very beginning. It was kind of strange the way that a guy, everyone knew he was half out the door in the summer. not just stayed, makes him captain, bigs him up. But sorry, some people might say that's good man management. Well, as if it works.

11:47Henry Winter:But how did Christian thank him for that? But that's on Christian, not on Frank.

11:53Christian Purslow:Well, I just think it smacked of weak leadership and management. I think it smacks of appalling captaincy. And I think this gets to the heart of the issue. Conte, when he left after that fairly lively press conference at St. Mary's, hopped on a plane was an easy jet got back to Italy and he just left and he scorched the room as he left and basically what he said was players have to look at themselves but also there's a culture this club of leadership or lack of leadership on the pitch and upstairs and this goes back you could argue to the mid 80s when Tottenham had that team which fought which there was a definite unity about the team and the club and that has been allowed to drift there is no leadership there's no So just finally on the players, because this annoys me that the players are going to escape scot-free on this when they should accept some responsibility to Thomas Frank, a manager who I like as an individual and respect as a manager, that they are not going to take more accountability.

12:54Christian Purslow:We'll probably get Instagram messages from the players. They're probably flying out of their phones as we speak. Thomas, thanks. You've been such an important part in my journey. Well, hang on a sec. Do a little bit more. Romero, stay on the pitch. Stay on your feet. tackle properly, you know, and two players who dived yesterday. How is that helping the manager? So I think we've got to be fairly balanced and actually say, Frank, absolutely. There was an element of, and there were echoes of David Moyes going into Manchester United when Sir Alex Ferguson left and one or two people at Carrington mentioned that, oh, Everton are in the building today.

13:32Christian Purslow:And there was a different mentality. It was Moyes and his staff and there was an Everton element. great club, but not at Manchester. Different DNA, different everything to Manchester United. There was an element at Hotspur way of, oh, Brentford are in the building today. And that is where Thomas, and that's a sort of broader point in football and in leadership, Thomas actually had to sort of step up and realise, I'm not Brentford manager now. Brentford, fantastic club, brilliantly run, better run than Tottenham Hotspur, but it's different expectations. And when he walked, just let me finish on this, because this is so important.

14:04Christian Purslow:when he walked into the building. Maybe someone needed to say to him, listen, you are at Tottenham Hotspur now. As you were saying, to dare us to do, we need to entertain the fans as well who pay a hell of a lot of money for their tickets. They haven't always been treated correctly and there have been issues between the fans and the board in recent years. So make sure you entertain them. You've got to attack. Be on the front foot. You do have some attacking players. Completely take your point that some of them are injured as well. but he had to step up and he didn't and I absolutely accept that you know looking at it now and I was very much pro his appointment that actually he was probably too nice for the place but also the players can't get away without owning up

14:48Henry Winter:I wasn't convinced about the appointment and what you've just set out your Moyes analogy is such a good one we're both huge fans of David and Thomas but there's a horses for courses issue here we had the same issue when Roy Hodgson came to Liverpool. Sometimes these managers who achieve great things with more limited resources, with more limited talents, those skills don't apply necessarily directly to the different challenge of managing star players in an environment where you're expected to win every week. And history will judge that Thomas did not make that step up. and what they do next is now absolutely fascinating because, you know, we have together in the last few weeks, we've looked at Manchester United and we talked about when Ameren equally had to go, similar and different reasons, by the way, they decided, even longer left in the season, by the way, to make what's called an interim or caretaker appointment as opposed to getting the checkbook out and making a permanent appointment now.

15:58Henry Winter:And one of the reasons was that they felt, Manchester United felt, that there will be more, a broader selection of top quality managers, A, available in the summer. It's a fact. It's been referred to as the manager of Amerigrond. And B, a broader selection of managers who will be willing to come in when you know what you're dealing with. Well, if it was difficult for Manchester United to contemplate a permanent appointment a month ago, I think it's even harder for Spurs because, let's face it, United were, I think, fifth when they bulleted Amarin. Tottenham 15th or 16th this morning?

16:36Christian Purslow:16th. And they have no Carrick. I mean, they're not going to go back to Tim Sherwood. Yes. Who do they turn to is what you're driving at.

16:44Henry Winter:Well, is there an obvious, I don't want to overstate the word, but club legend or hugely popular former player who's a decent coach available on some basis, either because he's out of work or because he'd walk up the road to manage Tottenham. You tell me. Anyone tick that box?

17:00Christian Purslow:Harry Reddip hasn't managed for 10 years.

17:03Henry Winter:Okay. What about more?

17:05Christian Purslow:Kieran McKenna, I think, long term, but he's obviously embedded and doing really well at Ipswich. Robbie Keane's doing well at Ferenc Farras, but they're doing well in Europe as well. I mean, he'd be an attacking choice. So what you're saying is... But all in contract. But DNA matters. Someone who understands the club.

17:22Henry Winter:Well, it did to Manchester United, but my broader point, no, I'm trying to set out the options. I'm Vinay, okay? Today, right now, I don't think they planned to make this move a week ago. I think they felt they got through. They had the great win in Europe. Feels like a lifetime ago. It was only a week ago. And I really think that last night, a terrible performance by all accounts left them with no choice. So just on that,