Tom Heaton | The Football Boardroom

0:00Henry:Welcome to the Football Boardroom. Today we're joined by Manchester United goalkeeper Tom Heaton. We're going to talk with Tom about what it's like being in an England camp away at a major tournament. We're going to talk about life at Manchester United and we're going to discuss how do we get ex-footballers into the boardroom. Please subscribe and we really hope you like the show.

0:28CP High, it's the middle of the night here out in America, England's anticipation is it building up back home?

0:38Henry:Yeah, very much so I think it's been kind of strange that we seem to have been out in the USA forever and the draw means we're one of the last teams to play the first phase game but yeah, fever, pitch, excitement now And today we're joined by a man who really does understand what it's like to be embedded in an England training camp. He was with England in Germany for the Euros recently, a number of other camps in his career. And that person is none other than Manchester United goalkeeper Tom Heaton. Tom, welcome. Christian, thank you very much. Henry, really appreciate coming on. Brilliant to see you, Tom.

1:16Tom, I've been watching, obviously, England training, and the goalkeepers, as you know, they come out first, and we get a good look at them, and there's always an amazing camaraderie. What was it like, because you were obviously there in 24, being effectively the training goalkeeper? The impression we got from Gareth, and also from Thomas, is that it's very much someone with a really upbeat character, because the players are away for a long way from home. Yeah, I think that's fair. I think Gareth gave me the call about four or five weeks before the lads were due to meet up. And it was more of a role of they needed an extra pair of hands in goal to support training, to support the goalkeeping group.

2:02But he also needed a little bit of a senior player, a bit of a mentor to some of the players. And also, you know, a sort of make weight between the staff, the players, just to go around the camp and sort of be part of bringing it all together, really. So, yeah, I jumped at the opportunity and it turned out to be a brilliant five or six weeks.

2:20Henry:Can we do some of the kind of logistical stuff that I think the average football fan has no visibility on? And your privileged perspective, I think, would be really interesting. So a couple of things. Let's start with, you know, the average day in camp. When a non-match day, I'm interested in, you know, the kind of routine element. element. I'm interested as sort of grown men, how much sort of free time do you have and what does free mean? But, you know, an average day and the blend between organised activities and freedom, non-match day. Tell us what that's like. Yeah, it's a good question, Christian.

2:56I think, especially under Gareth, I think a big part of his specialty really was creating an environment and a culture that was comfortable for the players, creating a connection between, you know, know the staff the camaraderie between the between the lads so it was pretty normal actually you know we'd wake up it'd be breakfast we'd go down to the training ground we'd go through the session we'd come back and a really relaxed afternoon there'd be activities on there'd be different social events and it was a real sort of normality you know to create that in that environment is a real skill and I thought he did that extremely well you know you and I have gone many times to

3:38Henry:away games in the Premier League. Let's say we leave Birmingham, we're playing Nottingham, we're playing, let's say, Newcastle on a Saturday night and we get up to Newcastle Friday afternoon. And some of the lads were climbing off the walls by Saturday lunchtime, just killing 24 hours before a game. Is that a real challenge to manage the boredom of grown men who are used to having a lot of freedom after trainings over in their day jobs? just basically being in camp and not turning it into a prison camp. Is that a challenge? And do certain players handle that better than others? Yes, I think that's fair.

4:17I think a big part of that is the base camp. What the FA did in 2024, I think they found a really, really good hotel that was almost like a village. There was a golf course with big spa facilities, but there was a lot of space. I think they'd invested in putting a paddle court in, a basketball court in. And as ever, you get a 26-man squad and you get total different personalities in there. You know, everyone requires different things. You know, there was a big feature on Phil Foden doing fishing that year. That was his outlet, really, of relaxing in the afternoon. You know, we had quite a few golfers.

4:55Most evenings, I spent in the spa at nighttime, so I'd have dinner, chill out a little bit, then go down to the spa and you'd see Adam Walken and Cobby Maynou there every night. So we ended up having a bit of a group that went down to the spa every evening. And I think the key to it is having the options that everyone can do what they need to do. And it's not easy to find it. When you're with each other for five or six weeks, day in, day out, night and day, the pressure added in there, the scrutiny added in there. It's a challenge. It's a real, real challenge. But I think supporting people through it, giving people the freedom to go and do what they need to do.

5:31So, as I say, having the options and the facilities that they're able to do that can't be underestimated, I would say.

5:38Henry:Okay, Tom, it's time to don't get too big headed. But I want to read something that I saw the other day that I was so chuffed that came out before we had you on the show. And it was an interview with Casemiro just as he was leaving Old Trafford, your teammate. And he was with Rio Ferdinand and Rio was sort of asking about the kind of key leaders around the club. And Casemiro said, Tom Heaton is very important for us. He pushes the training. He pushes us before the game. He doesn't play, but he pushes all the time. Every dressing room needs one Tom. Everyone needs this guy because he helps in the room so much.

6:19Henry:Now, I was so pleased to read that because I was lucky enough to work with you at Villa. you joined us in the summer of promotion and had an absolutely fantastic impact on and off the field. By the way, it was my first experience, shall we say, in the team. You know, we just, a newly promoted team, I think it was the busiest I'd ever seen a goalkeeper in my career because I'd been at Liverpool and Chelsea. Boy, were you busy and boy, were you a fantastic shot stopper. And your injury on New Year's Day was an absolute turning point for our club that season. but it was the off the field aspects that doesn't go commented on as much as it should.

6:57Henry:And obviously we were moving into the COVID time and you and I got to work very closely on some of the very serious issues that that crisis threw up for football and footballers going to work. How do you feel about that role now at Man United? For those who don't know, Tom's just been given another year at the club. He's officially, I guess, the third choice goalie and he will be at United again this season. Is that a core part of your role at Man United? I'm sure it must be. Yes, it is. Absolutely delighted to sign another year. First and foremost, the playing always has to be the priority. You know, I've said that before, but it really does.

7:42If you're a player at Manchester United, you have to be ready to offer something for the team. I still feel I can do that. I think, if I'm totally honest, the role that I'm currently in, I was a little conflicted when I first went back to the club because I still had the drive and the desire to be that starting goalkeeper. So I was really, really pushing, really driving. That's evolved. I turned 40 a month or two ago. You don't look it, boy. Thanks very much. I've evolved with that role. I've understood it a little bit more. But again, prioritising being ready to play, but at the same time, trying to support and help others around the football club.

8:22I've been really, really intrigued by that evolution in myself, really, and how much that's become. Trying to win through other people, really, and trying to win through people. It's a different way of viewing it, but I'm more comfortable with it in the last 18 months, and I'm actually enjoying it. I'm enjoying trying to affect performances, results, through other people and seeing how I can do it. And I think in the Aston Villa time that you spoke about, that first six months was incredible. Loved the performances. And then for the following 18 months where I was unable to after the knee injury, I tried to do a similar sort of thing.

9:00So that was probably when it started to build and be a feature. And I've tried to take it on to keep momentum going with it. Tom, there's a sort of perfect symmetry with what you've done because you obviously started out in Manchester United's academy. And United obviously celebrated rightly for having someone in their matchday squad who's been homegrown, developed by the club, going back to the mid-20s. I mean, it's a phenomenal record. What does that do? Obviously, it's important on the playing side, but what does that do to the identity of a club and the culture within the building when you have got homegrown?

9:36Because you go into the academy and you see the picture of George Best, to Bobby Charlton, the class of 92, to have that as well, someone homegrown who understands. Can you explain what that identity is? I think it's an incredible feature of the football club to have an academy member for such a long period of time. And I think it hits on one of the pillars of the football club, which is youth. You know, you talk about youth, courage, success, I think have been three pillars of Manchester United over the last few decades, really, and going back further. So I think it really sort of aligns with that through the centre of the club.

10:17I think it gives everyone in the football club a real sort of vision of what Manchester United's all about, really. Bringing players through the academy, using players from that academy, and bringing them through to the first team. And I think if you're a six-, seven-year-old signing at Manchester United Academy, And that's part of it where they've had an academy player involved in a matchday squad for such a long period of time. You see hope, really. I think you see opportunity, you see hope. And if you look back through, it's been such a successful academy where it's brought people through, not just at Manchester United, but out into the Football League.

10:56So, yeah, for me, it's a real point of optimism for players in the academy, but it's also a real alignment for everyone involved in the club about what the core identity of Manchester United is about, I would say. We talk about great leaders. What was it like going into Sir Alex Ferguson's office and basically saying that you were going to leave? Yeah, not easy. You know, he was an incredible man, but very, very assertive when he needed to be. He was obviously the main man at the football club. I grew up there since I'd signed at 11 years old. come all the way through. But I knew deep down it was the right decision.

11:38So for me, even though it was tough going in, knocking on the door, when you know something's right inside, you can carry it through. So I knocked on, explained it to him. He wasn't best impressed. I think probably because of the time and the money that the club had spent on me, bringing me all the way through, which I totally understand. I could see that side of it, but I knew what was right for me. So I always sort of mention two to three weeks after that, knocking on his door, He called me back in the office off his own back and had me back in and said he massively respected the decision. Wished me all the best.

12:10He was always going to be there for me in the future, which is 100 % true in terms of speak to him often now, come across him often, have done since I left the football club. Always been incredibly supportive and helpful. So, yeah, can't thank him enough for that, really.

12:27Henry:Tom, our show has a couple of interesting links to you that is just jumping through my mind right now. Our first ever show was about Manchester United, and it was really on or around the day that Michael Carrick came in. You've obviously, your time has coincided with quite tumultuous events at the club. Most notably, obviously, the ownership change, the arrival of Jim Radcliffe and his colleagues, and frankly, quite a bit of managerial coaching change as well. We like to talk on this show about the kind of leadership group. we call it the triangle, the chief executive, the sporting director and the coach.

13:04Henry:And looking forward rather than backwards, it seems to me that there's some stability there now with Barada, Jason Wilcox and with Michael. And although Michael wasn't in post last summer, you know, it gets things going well, doesn't it? When the recruitment starts to look like it's working. Do you get the sense that last summer's activity? And I'm thinking particularly in your area, the goalkeeping department, you know, that looked to be quite a bold, brave appointment of the new goalie. And I get the sense he's done well. And it feels to us from the outside that that builds confidence in the whole management structure.

13:43Henry:If players can see that the club's getting its act together in their core job of improving the team, is that how it felt to you? Yes, I think that's exactly right. I think obviously Senna coming in, 23-year-old. We all know the challenges of being a Manchester United number one, relatively unknown. He's been incredibly impressive since day one. Real solid personality, very, very steady. And he's just delivered consistent performances. And I think the club's really benefited from that. I think in terms of the ownership and the board, you know, I'm a big believer in players and boards tend to want the same thing, really.

14:25They're all looking at success. They might come at it from slightly different angles. Players can be a little bit performance-based and short-term, sort of, what's the next game and trying to get the win. You'll know better than me, but boards seem to have a little bit more of a longer-term stability, finances, risk. But I think at the end of the day, ultimately, they want the same things. And I think a big part of that is having enough trust between the two that decisions are always understood. And I think at the moment, Manchester United are getting that completely right. And it bodes well for hopefully a successful season back in the Champions League next year.

15:01Henry:It's one thing, players having confidence that the right players are joining. And you and I know the kind of conversations we've had over time where, you know, when clubs get that wrong, a bad apple or just a bad signing, you know, that can undermine the confidence of the playing squad in the people, you know they're working for but it works pretty quickly the other way and it certainly looks to me that Jason got last summer right not just with the goalie but Embermo, Cunha both look like Man U players and we know what that means but I'm also intrigued you know looking forward whether you feel that yeah you feel that they can go again now that they're in the Champions League under Michael's leadership would you would you expect to see that?

15:43Good question I think there'll be a different challenge next season with more games. You know, last season was, I think, a record low in terms of the amount of games played. So there'll be a new challenge in the amount of matches that we've got to do. So you need a squad that's big enough to deal with that. Yes, I mean, it would be nice to add to the squad, add quality, add numbers. But as ever, money talks, and you and I have spoken about that on many times where, you know, the money sort of runs the football. I listen to the show every week and the finances really can define a strategy over a summer period.

16:23So without knowing the ins and outs of that, it's difficult to know. But I think it would certainly be nice to add some strength to the squad, quality and quantity. When Michael was at West Ham, as an apprentice, Michael Carrick, he was talking about when Manchester United came to the bowling ground. And he would stand in the corridor and be sweeping out the away room. And he would just look at these sort of superheroes in there, just looking absolutely the part. What is it about that? You've touched on it, but the sort of pressure of playing for Manchester United, and I can reflect it as a journalist, is that we can do a tiny story on a change in the height of the corner flag, and it can be back page news.

17:10Everything on Manchester United is like sort of maximum of two or three times even other big clubs. What is it like when you, how do you find that mentality when you're stepping out at a place like Old Trafford, when you're going to a wayground and they're all piling on you because you are United? Yeah, I think it's not easy to define, but I think the expectation is winning on the pitch. You know, that's the demand that Manchester United has been and will continue to be. but I think beyond that there's also a demand in terms of your mentality your behaviour your attitude there's a real sort of combination of winning on the pitch but doing it in a way that represents Manchester United Football Club and I think those two things together combined are powerful you know they're really powerful it's day in day out they're the requirements of being a Manchester United football player it's a way of life really in terms of how you behave the mentality growing up in the academy it was instilled in us from an early age and it filtered down to Alex Ferguson Eric Harrison, Paul McGuinness, Tony Whelan, Dave Bushell, these people behind the scenes all had these standards and expectations of even young players, but it starts to become ingrained in you.

18:22And I think that represents what the football club's about. Yes, there's the football, but there's more to it than just the football. There's how you are as a person, that attitude, that mentality, how you represent the football club. And I think it's a massive, massive part of Manchester United Football Club. and I think part of my role at the club is making sure that continues. Michael obviously knows it, knows it well for his time there. I played with him. I know he's a big advocate of it. So it's great to have that back at the football club where it's the football, it's the most important thing, but there's more to it.

18:54There's more expected as well. Sorry, what does that mean when you say when you represent the football club? You represent their values and can you ever switch off from that? I mean, when you go to the Trafford Centre or you're travelling anywhere, are you very aware that you are representing Manchester United? Yeah, that is part of the responsibility. So yes, if you're a Manchester United player, it's a 24-7, 365 gig. It requires a life, really. And I think that's, for me, it's been a massive appeal. It's why when the opportunity came to go back and go and represent that again, and part of Christian's earlier question about the challenge in leaving, it didn't feel quite right.

19:35There is a draw to being part of that value, the values you talk about, representing that, being a part of that. So yeah, it never switches off and it is representing the values of the football club and it's important and it's not really acceptable to fall short of it. It feels to me as though having been through, you know, you having been in this hybrid role between player and really part of the leadership and management of the football side of the club. And you've done that through multiple managers.

20:07Henry:But I would have guessed, Tom, that you and Michael having that common background, shared DNA, I would have thought that would have been a very good day for you when you saw Michael confirmed. Obviously, results spoke for themselves. When we were looking forward in January, I don't think anybody could have contemplated. I think it was 11 wins out of 15 in the Premier League and a comfortable third place. but I guess that was a very good day at the office for you when Michael was confirmed Yeah, I think having a personal relationship with him from previous that would be fair know him well know how he goes about his business I was there when he took over temporary charge after Ollie I think it was but that's not to say when Ruben was in charge you know I think Ruben's a fantastic football manager you know I think he'll be a real success as he goes forward in his career there was so much good stuff that he did We felt like we were moving forward.

21:05I thought, actually, the pre-season we had at the start of the year was so good. And then probably should have beat Arsenal, I think, on the opening day. And that deflated it a little bit. And I thought, that can sometimes be the knife edge, but no issues with that. Sometimes it doesn't work in football. That was one of those things. He's moved on. So yes, when Michael came back and has taken the role, yeah, it was fantastic to have it, obviously. Steve Holland in the building, who I know from England, brilliant operator, brilliant coach, calm, but also has no issues in being pretty direct, which is needed.

21:48Jonathan Woodgate, Travis Binion, Johnny Evans, Craig Mawson. You've got a real good staff behind them as well, all of which I know personally. So yes, for me, on a personal note, it was nice to have them back, But I think the proof's been in the pudding in terms of real stability and kicked on again.

22:04Henry:Well, my final Man U question, linking the start of this show, which is, you know, your passionate England involvement and mentoring with Man U. There was a lot of commentary when Harry Maguire didn't make the squad. How badly would that affect a player? And is part of your job sometimes, you know, helping somebody get over that and see through that? Yes, I think try to, more on a human level than anything else, really. Obviously, I know Harry very well. People are desperate to be involved in it. People are desperate to go to a major tournament. They want to represent the country. So it's a big hit.

22:38You're on limited time. World Cup's come around every four years. So, yeah, people have got a real, real desire to try and be in that squad. So it's a real shock to the system, a real disappointment when it doesn't happen. So in Harry's case particular, I think I would have no qualms whatsoever about him handling it well in the right manner. I think having seen him go through a real tricky period at Manchester United where a lot of people were getting on his case and the resilience that he's shown to A, get through that and B, come out the other side of it in such strong fashion. I have the ultimate respect for it.

23:15Tom, if we could begin looking to the future, you've been obviously developing, you've got your A and your B license, you've got the certificate from UEFA. Is that right? You've been at Oxford University and was that on a leadership course? short uh executive leadership course um out of one of their sort of affiliations i think on campus it was it was really really interesting for me i had a bit of time to sort of go and do a little bit more learning uh hemorrhage and i really enjoyed it actually not a lot of the qualifications i've tried to do have been in football this was away from football a little bit more more about the theory of leadership uh really really enjoyed it actually probably my favorite course out of all the ones I've done.

23:57So I've been gently trying to develop away from the pitch as time's gone on, and I've had the opportunity to do it on the away trips and why. Chop wood and carry water. I mean, I've been reading the interviews, that's a Chinese proverb. What does that symbolise, explain to us what chop wood and carry water is? Well, it's a Chinese proverb that I came across, and it was probably at a time where I'm a big reader of books. I think that is from Phil Jackson, the basketball coach, one of his books, which I absolutely loved. It was about continuing on. No matter what's going, you keep moving forward, keep going.