Arsenal favourites for Premier League title after NLD triumph | Can Arsenal win Champions League? | Liverpool must 'change' their style

0:00Hello everybody, we are at the Emirates Stadium for the Gary Neville podcast in the wake of a pretty awesome performance from Arsenal against Spurs in the big derby here. Arsenal have won by four goals to one, Eber Echieze got a hat-trick and the very simple question for you Gary is, how good are Arsenal?

0:18Gary Neville:Very good, a lot to like about them. I think that over the last few years they've been building towards obviously trying to win a title and they haven't won that title yet. but they do a lot of things very well and I think the narrative going into today's game which I wasn't even entertaining sort of in the last 48 hours is this, you know, without Gabriel or Gabriel's injured no one's interested anymore Arsenal fans aren't interested Mikel Arteta is not interested and what they've demonstrated again today is they've now got a squad that can cope without players being fit and you know during a season at the start of a season and you know that certain players are going to miss certain games.

0:59Gary Neville:And so we've seen Incapae come in today, slot in really comfortably. Moscair has done it throughout the season. So don't let that narrative build. Nobody's interested in excuses. We heard last year he had no Saka, Erdegaard the year before, two years ago, three years ago, no Saliba. Now he's not that Arsenal team. The mentality is such that they've moved beyond that period whereby they sort of are looking for excuses or might think that it could impact them if a player's missing. they've got a really good squad. Their drop-off between player number one in the team and player number two who comes in if that player's missing is small.

1:35Gary Neville:Declan Rice would be a problem, but then he's an exceptional talent and someone who's very different. But today I thought they were excellent all over the pitch. I'm not an Arsenal fan, I'm not a Tottenham fan, but watching that first 25 minutes, I was almost willing Arsenal to sort of go and play. and going, if he kept hearing me in that first 25, 30 minutes about pushing it through and not getting caught up in these safe passes. I think sometimes when you watch Arsenal, they dominate possession, they push up the pitch, they really sort of like sustain attacks and push teams in. But they recycle the ball at that point, then sometimes too easy and take the safe option.

2:13Gary Neville:I thought what they did well in that first half was they kept pushing it through into Eze, into Saka, into Trossard. Because that's what Tottenham don't want you to do. and every time they did that they caused problems. It wasn't a lot in the first half but the two or three times they did it they got through them and Tottenham will come on to them obviously shortly but they're a team waiting to get beaten by a very good Arsenal team and that's what Arsenal did and after what happened yesterday with Liverpool and with City it was a much needed victory today and they've sent a message to everybody in the league.

2:42What struck me and you're talking about in KPA coming in specifically today for Gabriel and a player for every position or two players when Madweke came on late you thought oh they've got him too and Martinelli was back on the bench today and Odegaard is there and Gabriel Jesus we're told isn't that far away I forgot about him

2:59Gary Neville:and Havertz and Jochores exactly and I'm looking at the way that team's performing and thinking who are you leaving out of this team it's not only a squad that should go on and win the Premier League and I'm not jumping ahead of myself here it's a squad that I can see winning the Champions League in the next two or three years might not be this season because sometimes when you go in to win your first Premier League, you become so consumed by that. And then you can sometimes get done in a European game in a midweek on a two-legged tie. But they get into that level of performance and resilience and stability and consistency.

3:36Gary Neville:You have to be consistent. It's a very consistent performing team, this one, that Mikel Arteta's got. And you're absolutely right. I mean, Trossard, who I thought was sensational today. I mean, Saka was as well, and so was Eze. But Trossard was fantastic. And he's been fantastic, I think, for most of the last couple of months. And he was the one, when you think of Madweke, Martinelli, Eze, Odegaard, Saka, you're thinking, well, he's the one that's definitely going to fall away. He's the one that will be used maybe 10, 15 games this season. But he's pushed himself into a position. He's a really intelligent player.

4:07Gary Neville:He knows how to play the position of left-sided, forward, stroke midfield player. But Mikel Arteta, like I say, you've got players when you've got a squad that are really sort of pushing each other. You know, Madweke looked really sharp when he came on. He didn't do much in terms of impacting the game, but you looked at him and thought, ooh, that's going to be dangerous. And you look at Eze, he just looked at the end of the game like he was, he looked Brazilian at the end of the game, Eze, when he was sort of wandering around the pitch, beautiful to see that confidence in an English player. You know, you think of Brazilians going around the pitch doing that and South American players with their sort of mentality of sort of enjoying their football and their love of sort of what would be, what was taking the...

4:50Gary Neville:my podcast, they're not. Your podcast? I've just said it. But he was at the end, he was a little bit. And yeah, it was brilliant to watch. I loved watching them and that's the thing. I mean, the interesting thing is they've got Calafiore and Timber at full backs. Myles Lewis-Skelly and Ben White are probably better going forward. There's not much between Ben White and Timber. Myles Lewis-Skelly, I think he's obviously better than Calafiore going forward. But they've got real options at full back, real options at centre back. That's it. the only player you'd be slightly worried about losing for a period of time would be Declan Rice, because you can't replace that.

5:26Gary Neville:That's your Roy Keane, that's your sort of Rodri, that's the player that sort of holds you together. There's only one of them, so you wouldn't expect there to be a situation, but they have got options if obviously he wasn't there, but he would never be able to replace the ability for him to be powerful on set pieces. He's running, he's tackling, he's impacting the game going forward. yeah but really happy with Arsenal watching them this season I like watching good teams play football and I think at times I think they've been a bit safe and it was that Newcastle game wasn't it where I think Mikel Arteta just got the team balanced right he went to Anfield and he played a game against City where I just thought he was a little bit handbrake on and I accused him of that at the time he's now getting that balance right of the flair in the team and the confidence and it's the intent it's the intent don't keep passing it back don't keep passing it sideways you're better than that you've got players up the top end of the pitch probably seven or eight of them by the way doesn't matter which of them play you can pass it to these players when they're marked you can give it to Saka with a six foot four centre half behind him he'll hold the six foot four centre half off he won't just hold him off he'll roll him he'll go one way he'll go that way and he'll take it inside and that's what opens up the game passing the ball to players who are marked who've got world class ability is what this Arsenal team need to have confidence to do.

6:49Gary Neville:And I'm seeing that more and more, and particularly today. He didn't score from a set-piece today. In fact, to be fair, the set-piece is probably the worst I've seen from them. But their open play game today, which they've been accused of obviously lacking, it was really good. And that was good to see. And I think they'll get better and they'll get more confident. Yeah, a lot to like about what Arsenal did today. And just finally, I mean, we ought to ask you to give an appraisal, never mind the fancy stuff at the end, of Eze's game. Look, before today, I think he had two goals in 15 matches and he's going to play for Arsenal Football Club that's had Perez and Bergkamp and Ian Wright and Henri and many, many more.

7:29Gary Neville:So he's got to add numbers and what he did today was really important. Impacting big games, scoring in big games. He's now got five in 16. He's now got four Premier League goals in 10 matches. They're the sort of numbers you have to hit if you're playing for Arsenal Football Club. and so what he's got to do is we know he's a fantastic player I think he's better in the 10 I love him in the 10 I love him in the 10 I love Odegaard in the 10 so it's two great options to have but why I like him in the 10 is I think he's got the ability to beat a man with the ball at his feet and I think he's got the ability to sort of go and do something that's more unpredictable maybe than Odegaard Odegaard's a beautiful player to watch I think the rhythm in his game and the way in which he plays is fantastic but I really like Eze in there because I think this Arsenal team just need to be a little bit more unpredictable in the final third.

8:17Gary Neville:So when you've got Saka there, you've got Eze there, you've got obviously a centre forward, whoever that may be. It's going to be Jokka, Esmerino or Havertz. They're not the most flair. They're never going to be flair players, those three up front. So it's important to have them players around you. Obviously Trossard or Martinelli or Madweke can be the other one on the left. It's important to have that sort of excitement, that thrill, that idea that the team that you're playing against don't know what you're going to do and they're going to pop up in different areas and he can, if it's tight, which it will be for Arsenal many times here when teams are behind the ball, he can go and beat a man with the ball at his feet, he can run without the ball and make runs in behind.

8:55Gary Neville:So I like him as a 10 but those numbers are important. He's going to focus on that finishing. His finishes were really good today. A little bit of luck, I think, with the first one with the deflection but his third one was beautiful and he could have got a fourth as well. So really special day. Sometimes when a player signs for a club, it just feels right. And from the moment he walked out, as you said in the commentary, with those jeans on, with that smile and the Arsenal fans around him, it just felt warm. It felt good. And you think about a player who's so happy. His family, I think, were all with him as well.

9:30So, yeah, I think it is working and it's going to work more.

9:35Gary Neville:But what he just needs to do now is become a cold-hearted, ruthless killer in front of goal like he has been today. Go and score goals because that's where you'll be judged. if you're going to be a number 10 for this football club in a title winning season and in a Champions League winning team you're going to have to get up to that 15, 20 goals and he can and he will I think and he's scored the first hat-trick in this game since Alan Sunderland who was famous of course for winning a cup final against Man Utd don't mention Alan Sunderland 1979 to a Manchester United fan Peter that's a swear word I remember watching that with my schoolmates anyway that's another story let's move on Today's game was played in the context of, we'll come to Liverpool, but City at Newcastle last night.

10:17It's just Spurs. Well, do you want to talk about Spurs first? I think so. Go ahead, go ahead. No, seriously, you're absolutely right. You need to talk about Spurs.

10:26Gary Neville:Look, they're going to get a lot of criticism off the back of this game. And look, I think there is a lot of love for Thomas Frank and I think all of us want him to do well. I think all of us want Spurs to do well, just generally. I think that them winning a trophy last season as much as I enjoy them winning against my club, I think if I wanted teams to win trophies like Newcastle, Tottenham, I don't want there to be this sort of monopoly at the top where teams don't win trophies for 20, 30 years. I don't think it's healthy. But that first half does need some discussion. And look, I've played against teams.

10:58Gary Neville:I've never been in a team, thankfully, because I only ever played at a club that were on the front foot. And if we were on the back foot and defending deep, we always had a counter-attack option. We knew what we were going to do. I've played against teams where they've come out to play and they've forgotten that actually they're playing football. They're thinking they're just playing one part of football, which is trying to stop the other team playing and playing deep. And from the first few minutes, it became apparent that Spurs had no idea how to get from front to back. And the only option or tactic, shall I say, that they had was that this basically, they were going to get a free kick in their own defensive third, defensive half, and that the keeper or one of the centre-backs was going to lump it up to the other centre-backs who've gone forward.

11:36Gary Neville:If you're playing football like that, I think at a top six club, top seven club which obviously Spurs are you have to win and it has to work because it looks really ugly when it doesn't come off and that's why you see Thomas Frank at half time go for a more what would be progressive system with Simons coming on and the three centre backs coming off I'm not against five at the back in certain games I'm not against playing bigger players because you've got Arsenal set pieces to contend with so I'm not against the idea of it but if you're going to do it you've got to be good at it and when you've got Odeber Kudos and Richarlison you've not exactly got three front players that are going to be able to either you know those long balls that were being played and that sort of you know when they were clearing it out from the back you're not really giving them a chance to succeed I mean I think two of them that front three didn't touch the ball for the first 15 minutes of the match they didn't have a shot till the 55th minute the first shot in the game was the Richarlison brilliant goal which actually to be fair for 10 minutes made the game a little bit interesting but not too much but I think they've got to be better than that I think that's something that isn't going to be tolerated or accepted by such a great club and I thought that they looked like a team who'd worked on how to stop the opposition and had forgotten to think about how to win the game and when you push a team too much into that glass half empty mentality and a group of players into that glass half empty mentality or that style it can really look ugly at the end of a match and look I think today it could have been worse it could have been 4-0 it could have been 5-0 it could have been 6-0 and it could have been more embarrassing but Tottenham have got to pick themselves up from this pretty quickly and work on an identity that they're going to stick to, form as their own.

13:14Gary Neville:I know they're in transition under Thomas Frank from obviously manager last season who played a completely different style so it's understandable but I just think there's a little bit of confusion about are we a team that are going to try and play through and play football or are we a team that's going to be rugged, hard to beat and you can be both. I've said this about Arsenal when they've got the balance wrong both ways. they were too easy to beat four or five years ago and then they became a little bit too solid and too dependent on set pieces you've got to have that balance of defensive and attacking sort of work that goes into a good team so it's just a note of caution that I think there'll be a level of criticism from Spurs fans in particular off the back of that match because they had no idea how to play through the thirds of the team through the sort of different sort of you know defence into midfield Thomas Frank's there coming on to an interview now but it didn't look like the back three knew how to get on the ball.

14:07Gary Neville:It didn't look like they knew how to get the ball if they were with the back players into midfield. I don't think it ever got into midfield but if it got into midfield I'm not sure Paulinho and Ben Tanker would know how to get on the half-term and pop it into the front players. They see no pattern of how to play through the team that you see through so many. So that's got to be worked on very quickly because I say I had a level of concern there for Spurs today. Yeah. OK, so moving on now to Newcastle-Man City. I was lucky enough to be there. It was one of those great St James' nights under the lights.

14:42Really intense. And you can understand why against almost anyone, Newcastle can win under those circumstances. And they did. What did you make of it, particularly through City eyes? Because we're talking about them in the context of the title race.

14:54Gary Neville:Yeah, I mean, look, from a City perspective, that's a game that I think that you could definitely say they're going to lose, and they did. They're not what they were. I think they give you encouragement. I've said before, when you see that back four, it's not what it was. The midfield's not as physical as it was. And that midfield three for Newcastle and the front players, they're a threat. And with the St. James' Park crowd behind them, yeah, that was definitely a game that they could have lost. I thought City would win, but they didn't. But when I think about the games that have gone on up there this season with Liverpool, Arsenal and City, who have all gone up there, Newcastle have been really good in the Liverpool game.

15:32Gary Neville:They were unlucky. So unlucky, obviously, Anthony Gordon got sent off. The Arsenal game was a real battle and struggle. Arsenal, I think, did quite well up there. It was a massive win for them. So Newcastle are a team that can push the best teams in this country really hard. The midfield three is amongst the best. But for Manchester City, I mean, the amount of chances that were missed in that game, the amount of chances that were given up in that game by defences. And that's why I just think City are going to fall short this season. They've got some fantastic players. They've got an amazing manager, but they're inconsistent and they give you encouragement and they're beatable.

16:06Gary Neville:And it's going to cost them, I think, because this Arsenal team are more consistent and more solid and more reliable. So, yeah, from a City perspective, it's a little bit up. You know, you think like that, they'll get close. They'll sort of egg you on a little bit. You think, oh, are they going to go and win the league? And then all of a sudden you'll just... and I think that's what we're going to get for most of the season and I think Pep Guardiola's anger at the end of that game was an anger that probably stems from that's a killer that's a killer because I know that to win a league and to be where we want to be and be where I need to be I had to win that game to send that message to Arsenal ahead of the North London derby that by the way Pep Guardiola's on your shoulder and we're here but now I think they've got six points off them which is not irretrievable Seven, sorry.

16:51Gary Neville:Yeah, seven points off. It's not irretrievable, but I think they're always going to be catching up. It's a little bit like, I might be talking absolute rubbish here. Do you know Donkey Derby? Yes. I used to go play Donkey Derby at Blackpool where you throw the balls at the thing and you think your donkey's catching and all of a sudden it falls back and then something else goes ahead of you. It's a little bit like that when you can't quite get up level. And that's how I feel City are this season. They're just not quite there. And probably we'll take that analogy out because it maybe doesn't work and there'll be a lot of people thinking what's the donkey derby but yeah that's how it feels a little bit watching City they're just something's missing something's missing but for Newcastle it was a great win obviously there are other clubs up there who at large the public don't expect to stay up there the one that people did expect to stay up there was Liverpool and they've had a horrible day how are you viewing Liverpool's predicaments at the moment?

17:47Gary Neville:I'm torn a little bit

17:53Gary Neville:torn between a lot of respect and they've built up a lot of credit because when you win a league and you've got players who've won the league two and three times and you've won Champions Leagues and you've got a manager who's come to the to the country for the first time in his first season and won a league you could think that's up here credit in the bank so that's still there a little bit for me because I know how difficult it is to win a league title and that still remains. And you can drop after a league title. We've seen many teams drop their standards and drop their points totals after a league title victory.

18:27Gary Neville:So that's, again, not something that's unusual. What is unusual is the severity and the immediacy of the drop and the worrying signs that are appearing. I said a few weeks ago that I felt that they probably couldn't continue to do what they're doing. And again, I'm just calling upon lived experience. And I don't think we ever lost six league games out of seven. I can't think that ever happened in my 20 years at United. But what I do know is that we did have seasons or we did have moments in seasons after we'd run a league whereby we let our standards drop for a month. And we might concede too many goals.

19:09Gary Neville:We might lose a game or two. We might lose three. I don't know. I can't think back. We didn't feel like we lost more than that, but maybe we did. And when we did, there was an intervention. Because a blip is one or two games at a club like Liverpool, Arsenal, United and City. When you lose one or two games, when you lose three or four, you have to do something. You have to do something collectively and you have to do something individually. You have to recognise the danger that's presenting itself and nip it in the bud. The thin end of the wedge. You can't lose six games in seven if you're Liverpool Football Club, who are the title winners and champions.

19:43Gary Neville:you can't do that it's unacceptable let's be clear about that so we can't just sit here now and say ah okay they've got credit in the bank they'll come good there's a real I'm not going to use the word crisis because crisis suggests that we're talking about managers and players being thrown out of the club but I'm not at that stage by any stretch of the imagination but as a collective I think the manager has to change the style or the system and he has to help them and that to me means being more solid in midfield it means being more solid at the back and I'm talking about personnel changes so Kerk has yesterday obviously you know he's struggling he just is that you know Canati's struggling so do you have to put almost like a little bit like Arsenal have done at times look like City have done almost four centre-backs in your back four and just keep a narrow tight back four and tell everybody that you're adapting and that you're changing and that you go mean business to keep clean sheets and stop teams having chances on your goal and then in midfield you're going to start to put a narrow four in there and that could be Sobberslay, McAllister, Gravenberts and Verts or Gatpo just tucked in a bit more narrow on that side and then you might just leave Salah off Eketike or Salah off Izac or Izac and Eketike for two of them just leave them up there and make sure they just work back as a two and just do something a little bit different that feels really basic and it feels like to be fair I'm telling Arna Slott a world-class coach what to do but I've seen world-class coaches that I played for world-class managers drop their ego on how we're going to play style of play forget the fact that we're a great side and we're a great club you're not at this moment in time a great side and a great club you're actually to be fair easily win easily beatable so you have to do something different you have to basically take everybody really seriously like you always would do but you take them really seriously and pay them some respect by making sure you change and do something different so i i called on that a few weeks ago and i said i thought that maybe joe gomas should play right back and you know robertson should come in at left back and they should just play as a narrow back four and be a little bit more pragmatic and then each individual player that's the collective something has to change in the collective in terms of how they're going to play in the individual side of it you've got to strip yourself right back think of it as to the foundations of your house and rebuild your house.

22:08Gary Neville:That's looking at everything that you're doing, everything that you do, whether that's sleep, whether it's stretching, whether it's eating, whether it's the minutiae of detail. You know, just do everything better than you're currently doing. And tell yourself that when you go into that tunnel, no one has worked harder than me, no one has prepared better than me at any point in my life in this last week. Now that means mentally that means physically that means you know maybe a little bit less time spending with the kids that week maybe you're going to bed a bit earlier all those things that you might have doubts about what this sort of physical sort of lag is being caused and but I just I'm calling upon points in my career where I didn't sort of play well and I thought right what do I need to do I need to strip myself back I need to really go back to the basics of how I made it as a football player when I was a kid and really go back to the point of right I've got to prove myself all over again because I'm nothing currently, I'm nothing the credits and the sort of ability that I've got and all the things that are going to be gone very quickly if I carry on playing for this football club at this level because you'll be gone and that always should be the same at a Real Madrid a Liverpool, a Arsenal if you're playing at that club you've got to play at a high standard every single week and be brilliant and if you're not good for a period of two or three months the danger is that you're out of the club at some point in the very near future and they've got to guard against that and that's why it's worth just having a look at everything that you do in all areas of your life and look, these players are very professional so this is not a call upon me to say that these Liverpool players are unprofessional I think one of those hardest working bunch of players I've seen in the last 5, 6, 7 years of commentating in football they're one of the most professional group of players they're fantastic with the media their manager is fantastic with the media I'm just talking about when you lose 6 games in 7 you've just got to go back to the very beginning of your journey and think about how you build up that confidence again and that ability to win football matches.

24:07I think that's really interesting what you've just said Gary really good insights at what it is to be a top professional footballer. It occurs to me as nothing more than a fan that everything in football essentially is measured against expectation isn't it? Whether you achieve what people think you're going to achieve and is it fair to say that Arna Slott who as you rightly say has so much in the bank is suffering for an expectation he created by overachieving really if what I'm saying is if they'd finished fifth sixth seventh last year qualified for Europe he would have said okay he replaced Klopp that's par and there'd be a whole different ambience around the club I mean is that a fair observation to make yeah I mean look what

24:52Gary Neville:he achieved last year was truly spectacular and I said that at the time I thought Liverpool would I thought Liverpool would experience what they're experiencing now last season, the season after Jurgen Klopp leaving. And I said that publicly and I owned up to it. What he did last year was absolutely out of the ordinary. To not get the players that he wanted in the transfer windows, to keep that stability, which may in hindsight look like an actual good thing for him. But generally, I think what he did last year was spectacular. But I don't think it's about what he did last season, setting the standard and then this season causing himself a problem.

25:28Gary Neville:I think it's more what that club expects just generally over a period of 50, 60 years. They expect to win the league title. They expect to be involved in league title. That football club does not expect to lose six games in seven Premier League games in any season. So I think he's causing himself a problem now. And look, I don't want to go down the route of, you know, there's no way that Arneslott should be in danger of losing his job. And I've heard murmurs when you go on social media, all that nonsense. Forget that. you know, I know some Liverpool fans will say, well, don't talk about my football club like this, but come on, let's have some sense here.

25:59Gary Neville:This is a really good manager who's a brilliant, I think, front man for the club as well in the way in which he handles himself. He's got real class. So for me, he's having a really bad time. I think he's got to somehow reverse back down the road quite quickly and do something different and intervene and sort out what he thinks he is that makes maybe some really difficult decisions that could be, you know, they're staring him in the face, maybe give the players a little bit of help in respect of the makeup of the teams that he's picking. I love the style of play, by the way. I love it when they go and sort of punch for punch.

26:37Gary Neville:But when you're going punch for punch with teams and you're not coming out on top, you do have to get 60 feet. You do have to change that. You do have to do something different. So I think the players will be expecting that of him, let alone the media, the fans and everybody else. But yeah, look, I think that Arna Slott is a real challenging moment for him. He's going to come under pressure. People are going to start saying those sort of fatal words of, is he in trouble? But let's not get too carried away with that. I mean, he's just signed 450 million quid's worth of players. He's got to try and settle them in.

27:09Gary Neville:Those players have got to step up. Quite a lot of the players that have come into the club, well, there's two things. One, those players that have come into the club have got to step up and become Liverpool players and prove that they can deliver for the football club. The players who've been there for a long time, who are the leaders, captains, experienced players, they've got to basically provide some stability in the dressing room so that those players who have come in can basically sort of feel as though they're not having to take all the pressure themselves. So, look, there's a job of both groups of players in the dressing room, the one that have been there for a bit, the ones that have just come in, and the job of the manager, they've got experience above them as well.