Bruno at His Best, Arsenal’s Teen Sensation & Neville’s Chelsea Huddle Rant

0:00Welcome along to the Gary Neville podcast. We have been at Old Trafford today to see Manchester United give a considerable boost to their hopes of being in the Champions League next season. That felt like a big result for them, Gary.

0:12Gary Neville:Yeah, really big. I thought before the game that Manchester United would win. My actual only concern, it was actually a question that I asked Michael Carrick before the game when we spoke to him, was that this 11-day break that they've had, look, you can build it as having time on the pitch with the players, but then there's a lack of rhythm that you build in your competitiveness and just having too many days in between sort of matches I think can be a problem sometimes and maybe that's what we saw in the first half a result of a quite disappointing 45 minutes from both teams the game didn't really get going I actually asked a couple of fans in there when I went into the toilet I said what do you think, they said boring and it was, it was just a little bit like, you know, Ahmad had the header there were two or three really good crosses put into the box but there was a real lack of urgency we'll come on to Villa obviously shortly but for United it was a must win today and I think it was really important that they showed some sort of level of performance because I think in the first three or four Michael Carrick matches there's a really high level of performance where I was really excited and then in the next three or four the results were there but the performances weren't quite at the level and that can happen when you're sort of playing matches and you don't always play at sort of a real high performance level but eventually when you play 60-40 matches 50-50 matches and you're winning them eventually you will get caught out and that happened against Newcastle when they obviously lost their last game so I thought today you know the results the most important at this stage of the season but I also thought it was time to show a performance I thought the second half thought they were really good and I think Bruno had a massive impact on that but I think look I always imagine what managers will say to players at half time and I know Michael carry it pretty well he's not going to go in there and start shouting and screaming but I think he'll be quite sort of firm with them at half time and say look but lift it, get your urgency right, get your tempo and your passing right, do things quicker, get to set pieces quicker, get to corners quicker, throw-ins quicker, demonstrate sort of what would be an intent to the opposition, that you're up for this and that they're not going to get away with it.

2:06Gary Neville:And I thought from the very first minute in the second half, about the first five minutes of the second half, United were really good. And I thought Bruno, to be fair, you could see him, he was just like getting to the ball quicker, he was moving it quicker. Far too many times, and this is actually not a Manchester United thing, I'm sick of seeing teams have defenders on the ball at the back, rolling their foot on it. A defender should never, ever, in my mind, roll his foot on the ball at the back and be looking at the game as if there's some sort of Beckenbauer or Koeman type figure. They're not.

2:34Gary Neville:There's no Beckenbauers or Koemans out there on that pitch that can play 60-yard passes and dictate the game. Very exceptional centre-backs, I would accept rolling their foot on it. I just see so many times the Villa centre-backs on the six-yard box with Martinez. I saw the United centre-backs taking far too long on the ball get the ball with accuracy and speed into the best players in the pitch as quickly as possible and that is to me what United should be about the second half or the first half they didn't get the ball into Bruno Fernandes anywhere near enough they didn't get the ball into the front three I think Mbamo only had I think 10 or 11 touches and none of them were in the right areas of the pitch similarly with Oli Watkins as well by the way but in the second half Bruno Fernandes got on the ball in dangerous areas very quickly and he got himself more involved as well so it was a complete difference in shift But that can happen when you're not in a game for 11 days.

3:23Gary Neville:You sometimes can come out there just rusty. You know, as simple as that. It's like when you're not driven maybe for a couple of weeks, three or four weeks, and you're away on holiday, and you come back and you say, oh, get your bearings back. It's a little bit like that. And I think that's what maybe United were suffering in that first half. But Michael Carrick, I think, will have had a firm word with them about basically those simple basics of playing with more urgency and speed. And I thought when United actually did get the tempo up, I didn't think Villa could sort of be level with them at all.

3:53Gary Neville:Yeah, it's a really good day for Manchester United. I thought Bruno Fernandes was exceptional in that second half. He was brilliant. The first goal was scored by somebody who, in all probability, if United are in the Champions League next season, won't be here to play in it for them. Is Casemiro, like Fernandes, a standard setter here, do you think? Yeah, I mean, look, he's got such vast experience. Obviously, Manchester United have been getting him at the latter part of his career. You imagine when you see him now, well, we know, because we watched him win five Champions Leagues. What he was is an exceptional central midfield player that played in one of the most dominant central midfielders that you'll ever see.

4:29Gary Neville:An amazing midfield up at Madrid. But it's right that United do let him go and it's right that he does leave United. This is like a cameo at the end of his career, almost like a swan song, where he's probably loving every minute of this. And you can see he's showing his badge, he's sort of kissing his badge to the fans. The fans absolutely love him. and it's right that he does leave at the end of the season. They will miss his presence in both boxes. I think that he's phenomenal at getting on the end of crosses and I think he's phenomenal at clearing them. He's brave, by the way, in the air. He's really good.

5:01Gary Neville:He gets up early. It was an exceptional goal. But United need two central midfield players in the summer. You know, last seat, at the end of, sorry, in the transfer window last August, they rebuilt the forward line with Cescou, Mbemou and Cunha to go along with the likes of Fernandes and Ahmad. And that's really now starting to sort of hum a little bit and it's starting to purr. And you can see that the real goals and real threat, because Manchester United haven't scored enough goals last season. That's the absolute no-no here. You have to score goals. So they've corrected that in the sense that, you know, with Bruno Fernandes creating, even Mason Mount, I would throw into that when he's fit.

5:37Gary Neville:There does look to be good options up top, but the centre of midfield is a problem. I think, to be fair, Maynou and Casemiro are doing a great job right now for Michael Carrick. However, every United fan in this stadium knows that he's going to be nowhere near enough when Manchester United start playing in the Champions League next season, which it's more than likely they will, and they don't get knocked out of the Carabao Cup and the FA Cup in the first round. So when they play a bit further in the FA Cup and the Carabao Cup and they're playing in the Champions League, they're going to need three or four really good midfield players.

6:09Gary Neville:And at the moment, you've got Maynou that's a midfield player who I think you can definitely sort of buy into, but you can't really look at any of the others and think that that's going to work. Casemiro's leaving, Gugati I think will leave. So they need two really good central midfield players.

6:26Gary Neville:Probably one that's more positional, maybe like a Michael Carrick type and one that's maybe more of a destroyer. So I think that basically they need those two players. That's the next area I think of focus. I do think the back needs looking at but I think midfield will be the real focus in the summer transfer window. but Casemiro is doing a great job for United right now. It's been an enormous investment in someone who's getting towards the end of his career. With your business hat on, I was going to ask you this, do you think it was a good investment? Because, I mean, we've seen the goal he scored today.

7:00He scored a big goal for them, didn't he, in that League Cup final. One of the two trophies they won under Eric Ten Haag. Have they got value for money out of him in his time here?

7:09Gary Neville:Look, this is nothing to do with Casemiro. This is to do with Manus United's poor recruitment over many, many years and them overpaying. They've invested£140 million in Casemiro, £20 million a year in wages and£60 million in a fee. That's not a clever move because they're now losing him for nothing. So no, I mean, if you're spending£140 million on a midfield player over four years, you'd expect that there'd be some sort of residual value at the end of it. You wouldn't be expecting that he would be running his career down and sort of getting to 35. So it's not a deal that Manchester United would do today.

7:47Gary Neville:And you can see that with the purchasing they've made in the summer of Larmans, Cesco, Cunha and Embermo. They're all ages where they've got growth in them. So that type of signing won't happen again, I don't think, at the club. I'd be amazed if it did. This is not a slight on Casemiro, because I think Casemiro has given his absolute all for this football club. I think he's, to be fair, someone who absolutely leaves everything out there on the pitch. his legs at times have let him down what I would say is there's a period in the middle of his four year contract where he looked heavier in his body and I don't know what happened there whether it's the training, whether it's something that's happened with him or whatever, I don't know but he looks fitter, he looks leaner he looks freer and look, he's doing a great job but no, you can't say it's been a great investment at£140 million but that's not Casemiro's fault I think the rumour has it that basically at the end when he got offered the money he just couldn't believe it he just couldn't believe that basically Manchester United were offering him that level of money and that he basically had to go and to me that just tells it all but that's not a slight on him because I actually think that he's given his absolute every bit of energy that he could for four years at the club but it's more of a reflection on the club and the sort of what would be issues that Manchester United were having four years ago when they signed Anthony I think in that same transfer window for 85 million so But to be fair, Manchester United are in a pretty different place now in respect.

9:12Gary Neville:I don't think Omar Barada, Jason Wilcox will do that type of signing. In fact, they won't. I'm pretty sure of it. So, yeah, well done to Casemiro for what he's done this season. I think leaving Manchester United and being a big influence in getting them to the Champions League is enormous because it gives that money back into the club, which allows the club to reinvest, obviously, in the squad for next season, which is important. And the club should just be in the Champions League anyway with the size of it. So he's done a great job this season and he was very good today. Actually, at 1-0, he was in my sort of man of the match thoughts high up there, but Bruno took over.

9:47Because now he, Bruno, has the assist record in the season for Manchester United. He's also pushing towards the record for the Premier League as a whole held by De Bruyne and Henri jointly. He's four short of that now. You just can't minimise the influence he's had on the club, can you, since he's been here?

10:05Gary Neville:No, he's been exceptional since he's come to the club. There was a period about 18 months ago where I thought that he went like this. And then there was a little bit maybe of a dip slightly below that standard. But it just feels to me now, right now, that he's playing the very best and the most comfortable that I've seen him. He's exceptional on the ball. He's seen passes early. He's always seen the pass early. but what I like about him most is that he basically looks the furthest forward to see what the maximum damage that he can do with a pass and he finds and he looks for runners all the time and I think that's what a midfield player or a player that plays as an advanced midfield player like him should do you're either a passer or you're a dribbler he's more of a passer so he gets on the ball his head's always up he knows where he is he gets into that sometimes right channel sometimes that left channel and he's always thinking who's pulling off the shoulder who's making the runs in behind and you've seen some delicious passes in this game in between defenders and I've got utmost admiration for him.

11:08Gary Neville:I think also the whinging that I had a problem with two or three years ago, the sort of always have complained that teammates always sort of going around, walking around, that's definitely tempered. I think he's matured because I don't think anybody likes to see that. That's not something that anybody likes to see. You want to see players coming together. and so I think his leadership's getting better. Obviously, he's admired enormously and respected by his teammates. You can see that. But his influence on the games is massive. And I think you've put up there now Kunja, Ahmad and Bermot and then Cesc Owe when he comes on or Mount.

11:44Gary Neville:He's got players who are more like-minded. You know, Kunja's got an arrogance and a really good arrogance that I really love about him that he belongs out there on that pitch. and Bruno needs that alongside him. He needs players who can work at the same sort of what would be mindset as him, the same intelligence level, same... Yeah, just same confidence and the same belief. And I think they've all got that. Ahmad does that. He's always got... always wants the ball. And Bermot always wants the ball. Cesc goes growing, you know, week by week, even though he's obviously been left out today. He's come on again and impacted the game.

12:15Gary Neville:And I think Mount plays really well with Bruno Fernandes when he plays as well. So he's got players up there which are on the same wavelength as him all of a sudden. And I think that that is having a big impact on him because it makes him look better and it makes them look better when he's around them. Interesting that you talked about, Cesc Obert, in the context of when he comes on. Is he making himself too useful as a substitute? You asked me, didn't you, a few weeks ago about whether he's a super, after the Everton game, was it? Yeah, maybe. And I said, no, I don't think he actually is a super sub because I think he looks like a type of player that's going to start games and be a sort of point as a centre forward.

12:50Gary Neville:And I demanded actually after that game, I said I think he should start against Crystal Palace at the weekend, which was the next game, and he did. But there is no doubt that Michael Carrick, I think, likes the impact of bringing him on and likes looking over his shoulder and thinking, OK, I've got Mbermo, I've got Ahmad, I've got Mount, I've got Kunia, I've got Fernandes, and they'll run them into the ground and we're more fluid with those players in. We've got more legs, we've got more sort of what would be connection and combinations. I think that's how he sees it. however with 25-30 minutes to go as the game opens up a little bit and there's maybe a bit more you know we need a goal or there's crosses going into the box albeit there were crosses going into the box in the first half today two or three them which Cesco might have liked I think he thinks I like bringing him on so if you're bringing him on rather than say let's say you play Mbermo on the right and you leave Ahmad on the bench it's just not I mean Ahmad's fantastic but it's not as big a presence as a centre forward, bringing a centre forward on, I think always has a sort of bigger impact.

13:52Gary Neville:And I think Michael Carrick likes something about having him maybe behind him. And that is maybe a slight problem for Cesc, but it's good again today that he's come on. But you're right, he is walking into that role of, at the moment, an impact player off the bench. But just remember, this is a young player. I think he really struggled at the beginning. I think he struggled for his confidence. He's now got his power in his legs. He looks stronger in his sort of physicality. he's got his goals and his confidence he's also going to have a first season where he's going to do pretty well in terms of his goals but next season he's going to have a lot more matches so there's going to be Champions League and I keep saying it maybe I'm sort of being a little bit ahead of myself but it does look like Manchester United will get into the Champions League now it feels like they're the team that are really sort of starting to hit the straps and that look like they're ones that are sort of best placed he's going to play a lot of football and he's still young.

14:48Gary Neville:I don't see him as a super sub. He's not a player that I see like that. But at the moment, I think he may have to play that role for the rest of the season whilst Michael Carrick's just, you know, doing what he's doing because he's got a rhythm of him coming on and winning matches. And that's something that managers won't like to change. So just a quick word on the run-in because United now this season have beaten every single one of the other teams in the top six. but they've dropped points against West Ham and they lost at Newcastle so when you look at the run-in and the only team they've lost to they've still got to play is Brentford do you then start to sort of fear that it's raising themselves for that kind of game that might cause them more of a problem the likes of Bournemouth, Leeds, Brentford themselves Sunderland, Forest, Brighton those are the kind of games that they might fear more than your Liverpools and your Chelsea's?

15:42Gary Neville:Yeah, and I don't think it's a case of raising themselves. I actually think it's the style of those teams that are the problem for this United XI. And not actually this United XI. I think you can go back four, five, six, seven years. Manchester United have often done quite well against teams that they can counter-attack against and can leave space in behind. When teams drop off and play a bit deeper and more compact and play on the counter-attack against them, I just think that, to be fair, every United team for the last five, six, seven years has found it more difficult to operate against that type of team.

16:11Gary Neville:and the style of them. So I think it's about, in the summer, adding players who can play more patiently, who mean that when you do dominate possession, which United will maybe against those teams, they've got the creativity, they've got the presence of a back four rule, sustained attacks. I think Arsenal do it really well. Arsenal, to be fair, when they're sort of playing against a team like that, they almost suffocate them and they keep them in and they don't let them come out. And all the Arsenal players, including Gabriel and Saliba, are almost 20 yards outside the 18-yard box, which means that they just sustain attacks and then you just keep pressurising and you keep putting it wide and you keep recycling it.

16:46Gary Neville:I don't think Manchester United have quite got the back four yet to be able to do that, to really sort of what would be sustain attacks and press in when they're attacking. So when Manchester United have got the ball in the opposition's final third and they're working it across, the defenders need to be really brave and be on top of it so that when it gets cleared out, there is no counter-attack for the team that are maybe sort of what would be bottomish of the table. They've got to make sure they just keep them in there and pen them in and work them and fatigue them. and I don't think they do that well enough right now and they haven't done it for five, six, seven years.

17:14Gary Neville:But you need really brave defenders. I mean, when I played, we had Yapstam and Ronnie Janssen. They were so brilliant at 2v2. They were fantastic. And then Vidic and Rio, outstanding at being able to press in and do that, which allowed the two full-backs to go forward. It allowed one of the central midfield players to push in, which meant we were always maintaining attacks. I don't think this United team have got that yet. But look, there's another round of recruitment to go in the summer. it's obvious they had a plan last summer to improve attack it's plainly clear they need to deal with central midfield it might then be the summer after when they finally get round to new centre-backs because they have got a problem at centre-back the problem at centre-back actually is at the moment that De Ligt and Martinez arguably with Maguire their two best centre-backs they can't get on the pitch and it's a real problem Shaw is playing every week and he's more than good enough to play out here every week let's be clear but how long is that going to last for can he do that next season the season after if he can Luke George your left back no problem because I don't think you'll find better it'd probably be tougher for him if they were in the Champions League wouldn't it and they had extra commitments that's the issue when every three days comes and United are going to need someone at left back to cope without him because the reality of it is is he going to break down if he's playing 55-60 games rather than 35-40 and that's the question that we'll need asking next season so yeah there is a doubt there but not on the quality of the left back.

18:35Gary Neville:It's on the actual sort of resilience and robustness of him when he plays every three or four days. However, Thomas Tuchel will be looking at Luke Shaw and thinking there isn't probably a better left back than him. But I can't play him every three or four days. And you've got Nico O 'Reilly, you've got Lewis Hall, you've got Liveramento, you've got Jed Spence. And he probably thinks that they are more capable of playing every three or four days in hot conditions in a World Cup. And that's why he may lose out Luke Shaw. It's not through ability. I think he's been outstanding for United this season.

19:05Gary Neville:And then at right back, you've got Dallow and Masraoui at the moment, which I think for now is fine. But I think eventually in the next round of recruitment, when it comes to defenders, which probably won't be this next summer, it'll be the summer after, we'll need dealing with. So, look, United, I think there's been a bit of noise this week about this 150th anniversary, 2028, winning the title. It's too early for that. Michael Carrick himself said step by step there is no way that Manchester United should be talking about the title because six weeks ago, eight weeks ago when we were sat upon this gantry against Everton, against Bournemouth against whoever else they were playing out here that we were watching at that time it was desperate, so we've got to be careful, jump ahead of ourselves and think that basically because United are third right now and looking in a good position for where they would have been at the start of the season, where they would have been seven or eight weeks ago there's still a lot to do but there is a light at the end of the tunnel maybe what of Aston Villa I mean we're talking now before the Liverpool game so we don't know if they've lost fourth place they stayed there because of Chelsea's defeat yesterday what do you see for them in the Premier League between now and the end of the season

20:22Gary Neville:I think you said didn't you partway through probably the last 10 minutes that you felt maybe the Europa League might be their best chance of getting into the Champions League. That's incredible, really, to say that they're still, at this moment, fourth in the league. But you do get that feeling, and I have for a few weeks, and I've said it on this podcast for a few weeks, that I felt Villa would get caught and get grabbed. I think they were let off the hook maybe last night by Chelsea because I think if Chelsea win, then they could push right up level with them as well. I think losing Kamara, McGinn and Telemans all at once is too big an ask.

20:55Gary Neville:Today we saw a team that were lacking in real belief. I mean, they didn't play badly in the first half, but they were just playing what I call nice possession-based football. They were actually taking more risks in their own defensive third and better football, playing better football sometimes, coming out of their own box than they were in the final third. Too nice, lacking in belief and confidence. It's natural having had the run that they've had and lacking punch and bite. And that mainly comes from the centre-forward being in real desperate form. I mean, it was a tough day out there for Ollie Watkins.

21:25Gary Neville:He won't go back to Birmingham tonight feeling his best. You know, when the ball got played up to him, he wasn't great. When he got one-on-ones in the boxes against Yoro and Maguire in the last part of the first half, they took it off him, which, you know, would be a dream scenario. If you said to Ollie Watkins, away at Old Trafford, you're going to get two one-on-ones driving against Lenny Yoro and Maguire in the corners of the boxes, and you're inside the box and they can't really tackle you with any sort of level of certainty because you're in penalty territory and they're going to take it off you and be like, I can't believe that's not, but that's what's happened to him today.

22:01Gary Neville:And he got substituted, didn't he, after probably just over an hour. I have to say, I think he looks well off it and his England place for the summer is really in doubt because of the current level of confidence he's at and the current sort of position he's in. It was a real difficult day for him and a real on-fire Oli Watkins could have caused problems here today, but that wasn't the case. I thought playing Rodgers out on the right-hand side, I think before the game, we said, no, he won't play Rodgers on the right-hand side, didn't we? He doesn't play out here. I said, will McGinn play centrally and, you know, Buendia left me?

22:36Gary Neville:And we said, no, it's not. I mean, has that happened before? Has Rodgers played on the right? He has played on the right before, but not very often. Rarely. Rarely, yeah. It's interesting. Wayne Rooney, Danny Welbeck, Marcus Rashford, Anthony Gordon. You can rhyme them off. Players who've sort of played in that wide left, who've been centre-forwards, who can play up front or play centrally and then go to the... They can't play on the right-hand side. None of them can. And I don't think Morgan Rodgers, to be fair, everything just... You know, he's just not right. He had the boy ball guard behind him, so he had no natural sort of outlet going round him.

23:14Gary Neville:and I just thought you lost him for a large part of that match and I thought the minute that he switched and went into a central area that little flick around the corner which released the counter attack which led to the corner for the goal that to me felt like it unlocked something for Villa and the confidence lifted for 5, 6, 7 minutes but that was the only glimpse we saw of Aston Villa today and they've got, look it's a big ask the one doubt I have that I'm not right is Unai Emery being the manager because he knows how to get over the line and can Villa recover from what we've seen out here today and what we've seen in the last couple of months?

23:48Gary Neville:I'm not sure. I'm not sure they can recover to keep that Champions League away from United, Chelsea and Liverpool. I think they'll miss out and I think they'll end up in the Europa League places. But it'd be amazing if they went and won the Europa League. I mean, that'd be fantastic. I'd love to see them in the Champions League next season because I want that to happen. I like Unai Emery a lot and I like Villa a lot as a club. But today they just looked a little bit...

24:15Gary Neville:not lacking in confidence in terms of taking the ball, but it was all just a little bit like it's a game of possession. Not that they would really believe that they were going to go and win that football match. They didn't believe it. Inside here, they didn't think for one minute they were going to win that football match. And I think United had players on that pitch, they did, that thought we have to win this, we will win this. Bruno Fernandes, Cunha, Casemiro, Ahmad. I thought they were players that played for United today that you thought they want this game. They really, you know, they want to go and win.

24:45Gary Neville:They want to do things out on that pitch that will mean that our team will win. And I didn't think that Villa had any of those really. I didn't think I saw a Villa player that I thought he's really going to take this team forward. They lack that spirit and energy today to do it. You mentioned Unai Emery. Jamie Carragher said in his newspaper column this week that he should... Do you read that? Yeah, I do actually. I'm paid to read it. Don't pay to reach, get a screenshot. But he did say that Unai Emery should be coming here as the front-runner for the Manchester United job. Would you see it that way?

25:23Can you see Unai Emery as the manager here?

25:26Gary Neville:Look, he should be in contention because I've said before, I think he's the second-best manager in the league when it comes to experience in Europe after Pep Guardiola. Mikel Arteta and Arna Slott will have something to say about that and think differently maybe, but Unai Emery is exceptional. I can say now I don't think Manchester United will, if Manchester United finish in the Champions League, which I think they will, I don't think they will take Michael Carrick out and put Unai Emery in. I think that would be, I don't think they'll do that. And that's not because I think Michael Carrick's a better coach than Unai Emery.