Man City’s controversial winner, Foden’s red & United’s derby defeat

0:00Who says Halloween only lasts one day? With Wayfair, one night of Halloween becomes a whole season at home. From larger-than-life yard decor and moody lighting, to festive accents for every room in the house, Wayfair has what you need to make Halloween feel like magic all in one place. Because the best Halloween memories aren't made in just one night. They're made all season long. Shop Halloween decor now at Wayfair.com. Wayfair, every style, every home. Well, hello, everybody. welcome to the Gary Neville podcast which is occurring in the immediate wake of a Manchester derby which is going to be worthy of rules we're getting rules in already pretty profound conversation you can see on Gary's screen that's the one clearly attempting to play a ball which close

0:45Gary Neville:when this action impacts an opponent that that third one is the one that you just can't get away from we'll come on to it I'm sure but let's get this television off or else I'm gonna be we will discuss two major talking points within the game but perhaps before we do Gary we should take an overview of Manchester City's remarkably robust coherent response to going whether rightly or wrongly a man down yes I thought Manchester City I thought they were really poor with 11 men I thought that they actually were inviting problems I thought Manchester United were getting in around them in that midfield I thought Enzo Fernandes pushing on to Tielemans meant that Bruno was getting in behind him and I thought Kunio dropping in as well was causing a real problem and Manchester United was starting to look really dangerous and I actually said I think it was 20 minutes Manchester United should look to capitalise on this because they're playing really well in the game I think City had a good couple of minutes at the very beginning and after that I thought United were probably well they were the better team and then there's obviously the big well the first big moment in the game comes when Phil Foden gets sent off the reaction to that look I've been on both sides of it you know we won a famous game in 99 in the semi-final where against Arsenal we were down to 10 men and I've also had it the other way whereby a team will absolutely drill you into the ground when you're down to 10 men my 7-0 Barcelona Valencia played with 10 men for probably 55, 60 minutes and they absolutely destroyed us.

2:27Gary Neville:So you experience both sides of it in football but one of the things that you don't, you said straight away, what do Manchester United need to do here? And the easiest thing to say is keep playing the way they are but that's not really what happens. So when Manchester City have got 11 men, they're just a bit more spread out. I think Enzo's pressing on, Enzo's jumping out and trying to get to Tielemans. when you go to 10 men what Enzo does then he sits back in alongside Anderson the two wide players narrow Cherki and Semenyo and Haaland drops back in so they're in a completely different shape so you've got all of a sudden a very narrow Manchester City that are quite tight before they're looking to press out and jump out and sort of be a bit more proactive so that gives you a chance to play around them when you go back into this shape you've then got a different match then you're talking about I think having to recycle the ball quickly and move it quickly and make sure that the four in midfield for City and the four at the back are having to really work hard constantly and you're wearing them out and you're trying to fatigue them and you're switching play.

3:24Gary Neville:And then when you switch play, you're trying to push it through the middle at times if you go back through centrally because sometimes the four don't get across because one of them's a bit tired and leave a bit of a gap and you can push it through into Bruno Fernandes. Manchester United started to take too many touches on the ball. They started to play too slowly. They fell into the absolute trap that you don't do when you go down to 10 men, which you think, ah, we're okay. We're down to 10 men. The crowd are obviously looking, a little bit better about themselves as well and thinking okay, brilliant, this is it but they forgot to play with speed, with accuracy, with precision to wear City out, with patience as well by the way, I'm not talking about basically forcing every pass, I'm talking about playing with real speed, so everything's moving really quickly, you just don't run with the ball as much in deep air, you just get it shifted and they just didn't do any of that, they lost their way when it came to basically adapting to playing against 10 men and Manchester City for the 20 minutes before half time I thought were very comfortable in fact there was one point we did a possession graphic which Manchester City I think were 54 % versus Manchester United 46 and that can't happen when you're with 11 v 10 I know Manchester City are good on the ball but that can't happen you've got to dominate the ball with 11 men simple as that I don't care I don't mind City dominating the ball with 11 on the pitch but not with 10 on the pitch so for me a real big error in letting Manchester City build a foundation, get some momentum giving them real encouragement Manchester City's players went from being I think subpar they shifted it two gears all of them, they all dug in they all showed the right mentality they showed they were wiser and more intelligence and expertise in these situations I felt and that was the story brilliant performance from Manchester City I know that we've just gone to Micah and Roy in the studio and we did it half time and they think that it's not a sending off for Phil Foden

5:28Gary Neville:in a perfect world they'd have both got a yellow card we'd have carried on 11v11 and we'd have had a better match in terms of a spectacle but there is and always has been and I mentioned the David Beckham incident in 98 when you're on the floor and you kick out or you go like that into the stomach or into someone, you just get sent off. You just do. I don't know why that's the case. And, you know, I'm not explaining football sort of what would be logic and history here. But if you kick out from a position on the floor into someone's stomach like that, or you flick out like David Beckham did, which is so soft, what he did, just flick the back of Simone's leg.

6:07Gary Neville:It's that petulance that means that you do get sent off for it. Bruno Fernandes gets away with it I mean he should have been booked it was a poor decision not to book him but Bruno Fernandes gets away with it under the guise of oh I'm trying to get the ball but he put his body in front of it now that's not right because he knew what he was doing he was kicking him up the backside let's be clear but under the guise of the ball's on the floor I've kicked it on the floor that's how he gets away with it and it becomes a yellow so in a perfect world you'd say let's give them both a yellow and move on but ordinarily if you go like that in the stomach of someone, even though it's not a brutal kick from Foden, it's just a lack of nudge, you are going to get sent off for that more than likely.

6:50Gary Neville:It's just the nature of the game. So I don't think it was a ridiculous decision. I know that Mareska and Manchester City fans will say it was a shocking decision, but he did give Michael Oliver... He did give Michael Oliver a decision to make, and I think when you get that in the stomach and Bruno goes down like he does, I'm not surprised that it was a red card and, you know, it's never going to be overturned. Was there a moment in that flurry when you saw Michael Oliver go to his pocket when you wondered whether Bruno Fernandes might be the one, having seen what he appeared to do? I knew Bruno had kicked him.

7:26Gary Neville:And I couldn't believe that I thought it was going to give Bruno Fernandes a yellow card straight away. I couldn't see what Phil Foden had done straight away. I don't know if you could. That's why I asked, really. Yeah, because both of us didn't see the Phil Foden one, but all we knew was that Phil Foden had reacted because Bruno went over, we didn't see it because we were sort of like shielded but you could see that Bruno's gone for that one where I've done it when the winger goes down in the corner flag and you just kick through everything sort of like, you get a booking for it usually, don't you?

7:53Gary Neville:That's why I think Bruno's is a booking because I've done it loads of times and all the players will have done this it's like when the only keeper's got it and it's a bit loose you kick through, don't you? You sometimes kick the keeper and we see lots of these types of ones and Bruno's one, to be fair the ball wasn't there it wasn't there I mean he just takes the opportunity to have a kick at Phil Foden and Phil Foden rightly snaps but if he'd snapped and not kicked out he'd still be on the pitch and I think we'd have all said yeah Bruno was out of order but the problem is when he goes with both of his feet and it is just his feet it's like one of those it's just one of those isn't it it's like a double push with his sort of feet and with his studs and Bruno just goes like that and he obviously sort of takes it and I just think when you kick someone in the stomach, however sort of what would be forceful it is, you're going to get sent off.

8:43Gary Neville:I never thought the David Beckham one was a sending off. It was just a flick. He's on the floor. He can't even put any power into it. He almost, you know, like that, isn't it? He said nothing. But Diego Simeone played him. And, you know, Bruno Fernandes has been played today. Sorry, Phil Foden has been played today by Bruno Fernandes. That's the classic. And the referees could have dealt with it better, but I'm not surprised it was a red card. So, we'll come to the other incident, obviously the goal later, but a lot of water went under the bridge between the sending off and the goal. You've mentioned in broad terms how well City responded.

9:20A couple of individuals, your player of the match was Elliot Anderson. Yeah. And I could see as well, I mean, how much of the pitch he covered and how well he took charge.

9:30Gary Neville:He was outstanding, Elliot Anderson. Look, I liked him when he was at Nottingham Forest. I wondered whether£116 million was a lot. He's the one that Manchester United wanted, but he chose to go to Manchester City. And you can see today why Manchester United wanted him as well. He's a proper player. He does most things in the game well. He stood out today when City went down to 10 men. He really stood up. The question mark is obviously over Elliot Anderson, which is not his problem, is that you're replacing the best central midfield player in the world, in Rodri, at doing that job. He's amazing, Rodri.

10:03Gary Neville:I mean, what a player. so to actually step into the shoes of Rodri who's a giant of a midfield player in every single way he's a bigger presence as well, he's got more experience this was a big test today, I said a couple of days ago that I thought it was a massive test for Elliot Anderson and I wanted to see him play alongside Enzo Fernandes because I think it's hard to play alongside Enzo Fernandes I think he also is an outstanding player by the way but I think he's also difficult to read what he's going to do next he's never quite where you want him and I think to be fair Manchester City's players and coaches will know that but he is a brilliant player, he influences the game he's sort of got that big personality he's got that determination, that ferocity about him but he is sometimes lacking positional discipline in the sense that he's not quite where Elliot Anderson would want him in balancing off as a two probably why they brought Boadi because eventually I think that Buaddy may come in and Enzo Fernandes may pop forward one in certain matches, you know, further on in the season.

11:07Gary Neville:But I just thought Elliot Anderson today, his defensive work, but he's courage to take the ball and get Manchester City played. I actually think in the first 20 minutes when they were playing out from the back and I think they were playing too many sideways and backwards passes and they were too sort of pedantic in the play. I actually even thought then he was trying to do the right things and he was definitely the best player on the pitch. it was a big day for him it was a big day for Maresco it was a big day for Elliot Anderson in the sense of establishing could he handle a Manchester United counter-attack I don't think they were doing that well with it for 20 minutes I think it was a problem for them but then when they went to 10 men he did then excel they were a lot more compact and deservedly got the man of the match he was fantastic he was everywhere his fitness levels were really really good he never you saw Bruno Enzo Fernandes I think in the game He was just stretching, wasn't it, as if he was cramping up after 80 minutes.

11:59Gary Neville:I'd like to see the running stats of both of them because Enzo Elliott Anderson didn't cramp up. He kept going and just kept going everywhere. He was brilliant. And, yeah, it was a fantastic day for him. He'll go home tonight, clean sheet, defensive midfield, stop Bruno Fernandes really having an impact in the game overall. That's the way in which it will play out. And I think it was a good day for him. And it's a good day for Maresca as well in establishing him in that midfield with Enzo Fernandes. Who says Halloween only lasts one day? With Wayfair, one night of Halloween becomes a whole season at home.

12:29From larger-than-life yard decor and moody lighting to festive accents for every room in the house, Wayfair has what you need to make Halloween feel like magic all in one place. Because the best Halloween memories aren't made in just one night. They're made all season long. Shop Halloween decor now at Wayfair.com. Wayfair, every style, every home. Okay, let's get to the specific of the winning goal, or specifics. I mean, there's a lot to pick out here. Chaos, wasn't it? Well, yeah. I mean, it was a very hard one, truthfully, for us to read, for anyone to read, anyone watching on the telly. Who was offside?

13:04In what context? Did Dorgou's touch matter? It didn't.

13:08Gary Neville:No. So, take us through your thought process. So, look, I mean, it was chaotic, wasn't it? We didn't have a clue, really, what was going on because we actually, I think, after the first replay, and I think everybody did, just thought, okay, Haaland's offside from the cross from Guardiola. And we move on and the referees flag, sorry, the linesman's flag's up. And then I think it was after about maybe 30, 40 seconds. You went, hang on a minute, they're hanging in on this. And then you start to ask the questions, well, what's going on? Has something happened? You've got all these sort of what would be different rules, different phases, different things now that come in on a yearly basis that you think, hang on a minute, have I missed something here?

13:48Gary Neville:So then you start to think about the door goo touch. but we now know factually that that's got no influence on this decision whatsoever. It is still from the point that Gavardy all kicks it. So that's a factual sort of incident. We then find out through the automated offside that we don't see anymore. And I have to say, Peter, I am absolutely fuming me with this. FIFA started it in the World Cups and in the World Cup that's just gone. We're not putting the lines in anymore on the pitch. and on the camera so that fans at home and that we can see whether he's offside or not Harland. We all imagine Harland is offside because we're just looking at the camera and he looks offside.

14:31Gary Neville:We're still imagining that Harland is offside. And then Dogu's foot obviously then is sort of in line, sort of, but why don't we just show everybody? Why are the PGMOL Pro Ref, why are they sort of all of us, why are we not showing that automated offside straight away? Say, okay, Harland's onside. So Harland's onside, you get that after about 1 minute 20, 1 minute 30. Maybe people at home did see Doggoosefoot playing Harland on. Well done if you did. Sometimes you have these, these are the screens we get to see sometimes. These are the screens. And sometimes you're looking like that. My eyes aren't that great anymore.

15:05Gary Neville:So you're basically putting your glasses on thinking, hang on a minute, where is Doggoosefoot? Because, you know what I mean, he's got that sort of black boot on and you're thinking, you can't quite see it. Anyway, we find out Harland's onside. That comes through to us. so then you're thinking okay what's next what are they looking at and it comes down to one thing does Enzo Fernandes

15:30Gary Neville:contaminate Lissandro Martinez by going for the ball does he put him off does he have a clear attempt to go for the ball and mean that Lissandro Martinez in some way is put off from clearing it that is quite unequivocal when you see that I don't think any Manchester City fan, whilst they'll absolutely be delighted, they'll be thinking that Phil Foden shouldn't have been sent off, they'll recognise that they've got away with one here and it's a really poor decision. And Manchester United fans and Michael Carrick, I'm sure, when he does the interview, will be absolutely fuming. Because Lissandro Martinez, if you're Enzo Fernandes, you're going that way, Lissandro Martinez almost hesitates and does a little bit of that, doesn't he?

16:10Gary Neville:Because he's thinking, well, is he going to touch it? Is he not going to touch it? Lo and behold, obviously Haaland's behind him and Haaland puts it in brilliantly into the back of the net. It's a fantastic finish. But I have no idea for the life of me how it's been deemed that Enzo Fernandes, who is in an offside position, is not interfering with Lissandro Martinez and the goalkeeper for that matter. It's impossible for him not to be. I've been a defender. If someone is running in with you there and they go to play the ball and dive like they do, you do react off it if you've got no Enzo Fernandes there all you do is follow the line of the ball you might go and clear it you might not get there but you can go and clear it you're unimpeded so it's a really poor decision Manchester United will be absolutely fuming there'll be a lot of angry fans because it should be a 0-0 game but it was given and I'm not sure when we get the explanation or the apology but it will come.

17:12Gary Neville:I'm pretty certain of that. It's a really poor one. Who was the... The VAR? Yeah, who was on VAR? Matt Donoghue. Who? Matt Donoghue. Yeah. He's overthought it. Sometimes they do. I've always said this. You're in Stockley Park. You're removed from the emotion, the feeling of the game. It's like commentating from remote venue and not being in the stadium. I don't see how you get the feeling for things. and sometimes things just don't feel right and that goal, Peter, I don't know, it was just an instinct it didn't look right, it didn't look like a goal and that's not scientific by the way but he feels as a defender, don't you?

17:52Gary Neville:It just doesn't feel right, it doesn't look right and it wasn't right and it's a poor decision but it is what it is

18:02Gary Neville:and there'll be an inquest, I'm sure and there'll be a lot of headlines about that goal and there'll be a lot of replays of it and we'll probably hear about it for a week or two. Beyond that, United did lose the game. You know, some say against 10 men they should have won the game. They were in a position whereby the game should have been theirs. They've got four points from four games. Yeah, Michael Carrick can be angry about the goal, but he should be also angry about the performance. He really should. I did think that Cesc Goal should have come on at half-time. I think it became quite obvious the pattern of the game after Phil Foden was sent off before, you know, in the first 45 minutes wasn't going as well as it should have been for United.

18:41Gary Neville:So I think they needed to be a little bit more direct and they needed to get more sort of aerial presence in the box and just go down a different route. I think it was 65 minutes before Cesc came on. I think he should have been on after 45 minutes. I think that was quite clear. But from that, I don't think... I don't think any of United's front six, maybe Maynard, I think Kobe Maynard was the one I thought that, to be fair, in that deep line position, looked like he played pretty well. But the other front five, Bruno Fernandes, Marcus Rashford, Cunha, Embermo, they were poor. They were really poor today.

19:20Gary Neville:I thought Dalot on the ball in the final third wasn't succinct enough, and neither was Dorgue in terms of the crosses. You know, just putting good deliveries into the box, putting them into good areas, making Manchester City defend. So there wasn't enough good deliveries from the full-backs. there wasn't enough good delivers from wide areas I thought that to be fair Manchester United's four players were stood in their positions too early almost waiting rather than arriving they sort of lost their shape from an attacking perspective completely in their discipline their game intelligence and I talked about game I mean the last 10 minutes it was a horrible last 10 minutes for Manchester United because that's where you think to be fair you throw the kitchen sink at it and you're building the crowd up and the pressure up and it's a pressure cooker and you get a goal I mean you might get a second Manchester City managed the game brilliantly and they just kept winning free kick after free kick and corner after corner and it's the classic sort of them running the clock down which they're entitled to do and absolutely should have done but it was an awful last 10 minutes from an experience perspective from Manchester United because they lack game management whilst they were losing the last game they lack game management at Everton a week or so ago whilst they were winning they now lack game management when they're actually losing and they don't know how to seem to play against 10 men so it was a bad day for Manchester United it really was you're losing a derby it's a shocking day anyway you know I've lost derbies myself it's awful but then

20:39Gary Neville:to not score a goal against 10 men is not what I expected today I expected goals from Manchester United and hang on what's this said VAR checked the referee's call of no goal for offside and determined that Haaland was in an onside position and recommended that goal was awarded they are also deemed that while in an offside position, Fernandes didn't play the ball. I think they're ignoring the rule. I think they're actually digging a... Is this from the referees? It's from the Premier League match centre. Oh, I think they're digging themselves a bigger hole. They shouldn't have put that out. They're going to have to retract that.

21:13Gary Neville:I'm really surprised at that. Yeah, no, I mean, we know that Enzo Fernandes didn't play the ball, but it does say that he's off... that if he clearly attempts to play the ball, then he will be deemed to be offside and interferes with an opponent. which he does. You see Martins there just sort of miss the ball, Peter, as it goes past Enzo Fernandes. I mean, it's unequivocal. You see, watch Martins there. He just sort of like, his arms come up and he sort of goes into an unnatural position. I don't know why they've... Yeah, I mean, they're reading it out. Go on, you can do it, Peter. We did all this during the game, but a player penalised if they are preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent's line of vision or challenging an opponent for the ball, clearly attempting to play the ball.

21:57Maybe that's the key one, which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball.

22:06Gary Neville:I think three and four are just absolutely emphatic that that should have been an offside. And one and two fall into the category as well. I think all four of them do, but no, three and four. Yeah, Alessandro Martins is talking now and he's obviously, to be fair, been sent out to say that, look, I was put off because, you know, Enzo Fernandes, his teammate from Argentina, is in front of him. But going back to Manchester United, I think that Michael Carrick will be disappointed tonight. That's four points from four games. It's a very bad return. They find themselves, Manchester United, eight points behind Manchester City and Arsenal after four matches.

22:45Gary Neville:It's very early, but it's not the start he wanted. But you can't say that when you're a Manchester United manager. Yeah, but it's early. Yeah, but we'll get it right. You've got to get it right. so next Sunday against Fulham next Sunday isn't it that becomes a real pressure game now because obviously Fulham have not started the season that well and Manchester United are on four points eight points I don't know where they are in the league but it won't look pretty but yeah it is early but there are some concerning signs that they're not playing well in matches and they're also struggling in matches even the game here against Ipswich which we did the game didn't we Ipswich were good for 55 minutes and to be fair caused big problems because Scudder could have scored two or three.

23:29Gary Neville:So yeah, there's some questions building and that was a bad day all round. Really all round. The decision that's gone against them for the goal is a bad one. The performance going down to 10 men is a bad one and losing a derby is a bad one. So just bad all round. So we should finish on City who won the day and are still 100 % with Arsenal. There they are, the big two again, seemingly. Is that how kind of obvious a question though it is? Is that how you see it? Are those two on maximum points? Is the tone now set? Yeah, look, there was a point, wasn't there, probably two or three weeks before the end of the transfer window when City didn't have in Bawadi, Enzo Fernandez and NGI that you thought, they look well short, particularly in midfield.

24:13Gary Neville:They get those three in late on, which is 250 million quids worth of business, I think. And it's just transformed the look of the team, hasn't it? and I think the big thing for City is going to come down to the defence. It's going to come down to Diaz being fit, it's going to come down to Gavardio being fit, the experienced players back there in Gehi, obviously. If you can keep that back four and you've got Kusanov on the bench, Nico O 'Reilly, it's a youngish back four as well as some youth in there or younger defenders. If you don't pick up injuries, Manchester City, they can give Arsenal a real run.

24:45Gary Neville:I still think Arsenal are better, but City have improved enormously with the signings that they've made pre-winner and that today was big for Maresca to establish a big game mentality to establish that they're not going to be weaker in big matches from a mentality and a robustness perspective they physically competed they mentally competed today in that game and you would imagine that the question marks over Maresca is going to be can you get through big matches can you win sort of games that aren't going your way can you defeat all odds when things are going against you. And that's a big moment for him.

25:20Gary Neville:He saw him at the end of the match, and rightly so. He sprints. He doesn't go to his teammates. He sprints down there towards the fans because he knows that's big. It was big for Michael Carrick today. It was big for Maresca. And he'll go home tonight thinking, right, OK. And the trust that that will build, that dressing room, that city dressing room now, will be absolutely buzzing. And when you're playing under a new manager, same for Xavi Alonso at Chelsea and Iriola at Liverpool and De Zerbi at Tottenham Michael Carrick to an extent at Manchester United though he's been here since January you're still trying to build that trust and there's nothing better to build trust in a football team than winning together in big moments and coming to the likes of Anfield and Old Trafford and the Etihad and the Emirates and these types of grounds and winning you know you drive home it's only probably 15-20 minutes but I tell you what it will be an absolute brilliant drive home for Enzo Morescu you want that journey to last forever He wouldn't mind driving around the city a few times and doing a loop.

26:17Gary Neville:But because it's a big, big, big night for him, a big, big win for him. But I thought his players stood up. They stood up. You talk about sort of wanting your team to stand up in difficult moments. All of them did. You know, Ndiay came on second half. He reacted to Femorescu as well. He brings Ndiay on, who can carry the ball further, probably in terms of with pace. He's more of a dribbler and more dynamic to get from sort of deep positions up there. Played really well. Semenyo stepped up he was better when he actually was to 10 men the midfield players were fantastic the back four really stood strong and then the goalkeeper chips in doesn't he late on with a couple of saves as well so just all round a really good day for everybody there's no Manchester City player that's been sort of forced out and the most relieved man in Manchester tonight is Philip Foden because I said to you earlier in the game I got sent off for a little little headbutt on Steve Steve McManaman and just came to there and I fell for it and just let my head forward.

27:17Gary Neville:Got a red card. I think we were winning 2-1 at the time. I'm not sure. Correct me if I'm wrong, someone. And I ended up walking down. I think it was after 30-odd minutes. Oh, my goodness, that's painful. I mean, we won the game. It was an FA Cup third, fourth, fifth round. I'm not sure. We ended up winning the game. But I tell you what, you ain't half panicking that you've cost your team the derby. you've cost your fans and we got through it thankfully and I was on the other end of that I got sent off at Tottenham once and we lost the game and it was brutal because the last thing you want to do is let your teammates down and Phil Foden will think that he's been a little bit hard done to but what you'll probably hear him say privately is I won't do that again so I did this little thing where I went towards Matt Manning with my head and it's just stupid do you know what I mean it's just like that little flick out that he's made Phil Foden he'll learn from it he won't do that again he won't react again you realise that you kick a ball into the crowd like I did at Everton or when you go to headbutt another opposition player or even just a little one that you're going to get sent off so Phil Ford and the most relieved man in Manchester without a shadow of a doubt Lovely stuff Gary Thanks Peter Well done Thank you

28:39for every room in the house. Wayfair has what you need to make Halloween feel like magic all in one place. Because the best Halloween memories aren't made in just one night. They're made all season long. Shop Halloween decor now at Wayfair.com. Wayfair, every style, every home.