Man City's statement win at Chelsea, Arsenal's stuttering title challenge and can the unthinkable happen to Spurs?!

0:00Hello everybody, it's the Gary Neville podcast which comes to you from Stamford Bridge this evening at not quite the end of the Premier League weekend. There's a big game tomorrow which we'll talk about, but at the end in the context of the title race of what we might consider Gary to be a swing weekend and Manchester City have just made a big statement.

0:18Gary Neville:They have and the perfect scenario for anybody in a title race is that you play first, particularly when you're in front and you can just stretch that league and really apply pressure. and Arsenal lost that ability yesterday by losing that game against Bournemouth. So you wake up this morning, Manchester City have travelled down to London yesterday afternoon with a bit of a smirk on their face thinking something's happening and when you're a serial title winner like Pep Guardiola and this Manchester City team or some of them, you're going to be thinking right it's happening and I thought Manchester City would win today, I was surprised at how lethargic they were in that first half but he's obviously sort of put a rocket up them at half time and they've come out in the second half.

1:02Gary Neville:They've really stepped up a gear or two. They've added pace and tempo into everything that they're doing. They've been a bit more direct. I don't mean direct by knocking it long. I mean a bit more direct by putting balls into the box a bit quicker and they got the benefit of that. It was a statement victory, a clean sheet, not a great Chelsea performance just generally. Even in the first half, I think, when I was listening to Micah and Daniel say at half-time they thought Chelsea had done okay and they did do okay but I think that was more about Manchester City just not laying a glove on them and not being anywhere near their level.

1:34Gary Neville:As soon as Manchester City went into third and fourth gear Chelsea were nowhere to be seen in this game. They were miles off it and it was a real big victory and I've been there a lot in my career where you're watching the other team and they look confident and I think there are just a couple of things. I think Cherokee's become a little bit of a what's the word maybe a pantomime villain or maybe a a character in this last few weeks I mean I'm absolutely convinced over on that far side the camera didn't pick it up he was taking he flipped it up volleyed it over the top of I think it was Kukureya's head on that far side and then he jogs forward and I'm sure he turns towards the Chelsea fans and does that to them because they're all sort of having a go at him and I think he's become a really important character in the sense that some people don't like it and I wouldn't have liked it if it was one of my teammates, but there is something I quite like about the idea of him rolling his foot on the ball and sort of keeping it up.

2:36Gary Neville:Because we talk a lot about Arsenal's nervousness and anxiety, but when you see a player who's the opposite of that, who's enjoying this and thriving in it, we shouldn't knock it. He's not feeling the pressure of a title race. Nico O 'Reilly is not feeling the pressure of a title race. Kusunov and Gaye are not feeling the pressure of a title race and they're all quite young players and some of them haven't won a title before. So I think when we sort of talk about the fact that, you know, there is a level of anxiety or a level of nerves in a title race, when you've got players that are showing and demonstrating confidence in their ability, that's a good thing.

3:10Gary Neville:And these are young players, some of them. So, yeah, I think Turkey's become a little bit of an ambassador for Manchester City's confidence. And I think Pep Guardiola, whilst he won't probably publicly sort of say that he loves what Cherky's doing. I think privately he'll really like the fact that it's sending a message and it's annoying, I would say sometimes, all the right people. In terms of, I mean, as you say, he's kind of indicative of the confidence they have at the moment. But given what we saw together at Wembley two or three weeks back, and given what we all watched of the FA Cup quarterfinal against Liverpool last week, when I must say I was seduced by them, I thought, wow, they are ready for this.

3:47have you had the sense that it's coming?

3:52Gary Neville:I think the Carabao Cup final was big I think it was always going to this game next weekend was always going to I actually still think Arsenal are going to win the league so I want to say that at the start of this conversation which might burst the bubble of the conversation a little bit but it wouldn't surprise you at all would it? Pep Guardiola, does he ever go two years without winning a title anywhere? No, he's never done it before Bernardo Silva you know is he going to basically go out with the perfect swan song and sort of win a title in his final season and sort of lift the trophy type stuff so there's a lot of things that point to and City's just experience but Arsenal still six points in front and I said it during commentary they can win the title next weekend at the Etihad maybe I've got more faith in Arsenal than Arsenal have got in themselves maybe I'm what I'm saying here you know and I said before the game you've got to when you are in a title race and you're six games out and you've lost a football match you've got to put it into perspective and can Arsenal put it into perspective clear enough in this next week in a way which means that they don't feel the fatigue in the legs and the pressure of going into this type of match and they can feel free like the kid in the sort of playground when you're younger that's the sort of feeling you want when you're going out into a game of football that you feel confident and that you feel you can express yourself.

5:10Gary Neville:Because did they really ever expect that they were going to be handed their first title on a plate by Pep Guardiola and this Manchester City team or by the Premier League? It doesn't happen like that. You don't win your first title by running away with it, like 26 points, or it just doesn't happen. That's not reality. It's always going to be a struggle. And there's probably been a couple of bad experiences in the previous seasons in getting to this point of a struggle. So everything that's happened to them, if they can sort of normalise it and feel that this is actually what we would have expected probably, that no one was just going to hand it to us on a plate and that we were going to basically sail over the line and sort of like do our victory lap ceremonially, it's not going to work like that.

5:51Gary Neville:So this is what it should be. I have thought for a number of years with this Arsenal team that they've got to go and win a game that sort of shakes the world. Do you know what I mean? They've got to go to City next week and win. And I've thought that for a number of years that you just have to sometimes, and it doesn't matter how it happens, you could go to Manchester next week, they could get battered in the first half, put me 0-0 at half-time, Arsenal, but then go and nick one with 15 minutes to go, and all of a sudden, the lights come on, and your nine points clear, and that's what Arsenal have got to believe this week.

6:25Gary Neville:Now, have they got that belief? Can they put it into perspective that this was always going to be difficult, that no one was going to give them it on a plate, that actually a title race is a rollercoaster, the problem they've got Arsenal in some ways is that they haven't got anybody of experience in the club of winning a title Gabriel Jesus maybe but I don't think he's the type of player that's going to translate that to a dressing room doesn't seem to be that character now he's obviously a good player but he doesn't seem to be that person who can really set the tone maybe he does have to sort of what would be this week have an influence for Arsenal I know Mikel Arteta is always looking to try and find a way of how to gain an advantage but I do feel he's got to try and sort of maybe this week, is it Gabriel Jesus who just talks about what a title race is like and he's been through some big ones with Liverpool, some monstrous battles and come through them.

7:14Gary Neville:So yeah, it's a big week this, but for Manchester City, you know, is this inevitable? Pep Guardiola never loses two titles on the bounce. I thought four, five, six months ago. You know, the big challenge six months ago, seven months ago at the start of the season, was could Pep Guardiola build a second-stroke third team at this club? You know, Sralix Ferguson had longevity and he built three or four title-winning teams. And the question was, that treble team had come to an end, hadn't it, really? And could he build a third team that would win titles for Manchester City? And for the first time in this last two or three weeks, I've started to see a team emerging.

7:59Gary Neville:you know, Haaland with Cherky, Semenyo and Doku, you think, hmm, those three behind Haaland, Haaland's been a kingpin, obviously, but those three are relatively new in terms of playing together, and you think they're a big handful, those three, in terms of on the ball. And then you look at the back four, and all of a sudden it starts to look like a young, quick back four, rather than a young, immature, inexperienced, vulnerable back four. Just in this last few weeks, Kusunov and Gahid starting to form a partnership. Nunez has been very good all season at right back. Nico O 'Reilly looks like a Rolls-Royce at left back.

8:35Gary Neville:So all of a sudden, from being a young, inexperienced, vulnerable, immature back four, it starts to look like a promising back four. The goalkeeper is a giant. He's a giant. I mean, he's awkward at times when that ball gets played into him. But he does come for things. He makes good saves. He's a dominant presence. and then midfield they've got two very experienced players and it's got a little bit of sort of what would be a little bit of Bernardo Silva he's a little bit like Paul Scholes playing in there at the end for Manchester United in that too with Michael Carrick it reminds me a little bit of that where the two of them are just sat in there it shouldn't really work that Rodri and Bernardo Silva they should get overrun but they're not because they're excellent players and they're brilliant professionals and they've been world class maybe whether they're world class right now at this point in their careers maybe not but they have been world class and they know how to get around and navigate a football match and win games so it's really interesting this I said a few weeks ago or a few months ago maybe a couple of months ago that Arsenal have to win this title from the position that they're in I still believe they have to because it's a long road back at the end of the season if they don't win it this year they will really it'll be traumatic and you've seen the guy with the bottle over there we know the build up to this game next week what the narrative is going to be against Arsenal how people are going to be saying what's happening that City are going to catch you there seems to be a sense of joy watching Arsenal sort of collapse and they've got to try and basically swim against the tide this week they've got to swim against the tide and they've got to hold their nerve and they've got to from somewhere balance

10:23Gary Neville:the emotion coming out of them because you don't want to be too emotional going into the game like next weekend. And they've got a job to do in midweek yet in the Champions League which actually might be helpful for them. I think if Arsenal had a week to think about this match I don't think it would help them at all. The fact they've got another game this week helps them and they can maybe get some confidence through progressing to the Champions League semi-final. But before next Sunday they've got to find a balance of that emotion that you need which is passion that fights to win a football match but not becoming too desperate and too much because Arsenal losing yesterday isn't because they don't want it it's because they want it too much and their legs have started to get heavy-legged and I've talked about these heavy legs with title run-ins for teams who haven't won it before many, many times over the last 15 years it's a real thing you're going for your first title you start to become consumed and it's the mental sort of what would be emotional drain that means that your legs physically appear tired and you just don't feel, you feel like that.

11:21Is that what we saw yesterday?

11:23Gary Neville:I think that's a bit of what we saw yesterday. Just generally the expectation that we're going to win this match and we're going to win a title and we're desperate to do it. We're going to be the first to win it in 22 years and we'll be club legends and all that stuff they're hearing. They're not saying that themselves. It's the noise around the club, the emotion in the stadium, the expectation, the fact they've not done it in the last two or three years when they've been in this position. and this is where it gets real right now. This is the title race now, this second. And they've got to somehow clear their minds and get that emotional balance correct.

11:58Gary Neville:Who does that for them? Obviously the manager plays a part, the coaches play a part, but they play a part themselves. They play a part themselves. This is what they wanted when they were kids, when they played football. They wanted to be in a title race. They wanted a Premier League title medal around their neck. So deep breaths, sleep well, eat the right things, relax, do the things in your life this week that make you feel sort of what would be happy and relaxed and tell yourself that whatever happens next Sunday night, my mechanism of dealing with this type of thing was, you know, if there was a big title game like this next Sunday, whatever happens next Sunday night, I'll be eating my Chinese next Sunday night, which is my treat meal.

12:38Gary Neville:That's the worst that can happen. By the way, we can build this up to be all it is, the monstrous game I've just called it. But I think Michael Richard said something similar. It's going to be a gigantic game next Sunday. We'll use all these words. But for a football player, you're going to go and play football. You're going to play 90 minutes. You're going to come home and you're going to have your pizza or your Indian or your Chinese or whatever your cheap meal is and you're going to relax. And I just think telling yourself the normal things and you're going to be sat there with your partner or your wife and your children.

13:09Gary Neville:Irrespective of... So what's the point in panicking? What's the point in actually, to be fair, getting into a state whereby the world's ending. No, no, no. It's great. It's a wonderful game of football that billions around the world will be watching that I'm part of and I still get to go home to my family. I still get to go home and have my sort of what would be my treat. I still get to go home and have a glass of wine. Whatever it is that you do after a match to take sort of what would be the pressure away from yourself. So I think Arsenal need a bit of that this week, a little bit of perspective, a little bit of this is OK.

13:37Gary Neville:There's no problems here. We play football really well. We're organised. We're going to go and score two set-piece goals at Manchester City because that's what we do. We score from corners. We're going to go on the counter-attack and a little bit of what Cherki did. I'm not saying Arsenal players should be doing the kick-ups in the first five minutes at Manchester City next week, but Madweke, Saka, Trossard, Martinelli, Havertz, Zubamendi, Declan Rice, you've all got great ability. Show it on the biggest stage in the biggest match and go and be Mark Overmars. Go and be Wiltord. Go and be that name.

14:12Gary Neville:Go and be that name that keeps cold, but goes and finishes that game off with 20 minutes to go. And I think that's where Arsenal have got to try and get themselves. For City, they're going to ramp it right up. Pep Guardiola this week, the Manchester City players, they've got the perfect, perfect situation. The City crowd have seen titles before. Their manager is an absolute legend of a football manager, one of the greatest of all times. He'll be, he'll be right up for this game next Sunday. it's almost perfection for him and you've got Rodri you've got Donnarumma you've got Haaland you've got Foden you've got Bernardo so all these players who've won it before so it's a great contrast that we build towards next weekend and I can't wait for it but I do feel now is the time for Arsenal and I'm not going to go and say it's now or never but it does feel a little bit like that doesn't it because if you've five years of trying to climb that mountain and you've just failed at that final hurdle each time and you've dwindled and struggled to cope in the past, there has to be a moment where you get over the line.

15:28Gary Neville:And I think Arsenal will crawl over the line. I think they'll crawl over. I don't think they'll get over the line easily. They might even lose next week, but I do think they've probably got a little bit of a cushion. I don't think Manchester City are perfect and I think they'll crawl over the line and just get there but they're in a lot more trouble than they were at 12 o 'clock yesterday when they were just about to kick off against Bournemouth It's just gripping isn't it? Did you have a Chinese after Overmars and Will Torr? I always went home and had a Chinese sometimes it wasn't pleasant I actually had one of my very most difficult experiences against Manchester City at Main Road where I gave the goal away and Sean Goldter scored and that was his first time I'd ever captain Manchester United that day.

16:10Gary Neville:I still went home that night and I always remember I was sat on my floor. I was sat on my floor on my back against the settee and I had two bottles of beer sat next to me. I had my Chinese and irrespective, that's the one thing that you've got to try and humanise this. These are young men that are 21, 22, 23, 24 years of age and they're seeing all this. And five, six, seven years ago, they were playing in a school park or they were playing with their kids' teams or in their youth teams. and they're in the biggest games and they're getting put under sort of real sort of scrutiny. That's the pressure you sort of sign up to.

16:44Gary Neville:That's why you get paid the big bucks, lads. That's why we are where we are. You get criticised because that's, you're playing for City, you're playing for Arsenal, you're playing for Liverpool, you're playing for United. In the biggest matches, if you don't rock up and don't turn up and don't deliver, you're going to get hit and you're going to get whacked and you're going to get criticised. So that's what we sign up to. But the reality of it is when you do go home, it's bloody hard. You know, it's hard for a manager. You've heard managers talk about the fact that when they go home and lose and you see them age within sort of what will be quite quick periods of time.

17:13Gary Neville:You know, you can always tell. We sit here every week and Pep Guardiola's been interviewed and Liam Rossini was just interviewed before him. You don't even need the sound on to know who's won, do you? Because the manager's faces just tell it all. You've got the manager that's lost and they can just tell the sort of faces just drained and dropped. And the manager who's won is just a little bit, His shoulders are a little bit sort of straighter and a bit more aloft. And it's the same with a football player. It's desperately hard sometimes when you feel it. And all these players, by the way, at this level, Arsenal and Manchester City, they're all incredible professionals who are desperate to win.

17:48Gary Neville:There's no question mark over, ah, they don't care. They really do care about their jobs. They really care about what they're doing. They want to represent their fans brilliantly well. They've been consistent over a number of years, finishing first and second. so that you can't get to that level without being that sort of professional and that sort of passionate about what you do but it's that point whereby you do lose it hits you hard and Arsenal tonight will go to bed some of those players and they'll be feeling it but they've got to try they can't just accept that low feeling or that anxious feeling they've got to go and do something about it they've got to change something that means that this season is different than last and I have to say I don't know what that is I'm trying to give them advice here from my lived experiences about what I used to do to normalise defeat or normalise mistakes, normalise bad moments, or sometimes not get carried away in good moments when you think you're onto somebody.

18:41Gary Neville:Don't get carried away. Feet back on the ground. Stay grounded. Stay level. All these things are going through my head, and I love this time of year when there's a title. I hated last season, not just because Liverpool won the league. No, it's just when there's not a title race, you want a title race. We need a title race, not because of television. the whole country wants it to be close you know what's happening up in Scotland at the moment and it's fantastic it's brilliant when you've got teams and you think which way is it going to go and it really is a 50-50 one now this shouldn't be because of Arsenal's six point lead but because of who Manchester City are and because of Pep Guardiola it's 50-50 it's a flip of a coin let's see other business we have to deal with Chelsea I think and that race for top five and they're four points off top five now.

19:30Villa got a point today, Liverpool course won yesterday. How are you reading Chelsea? It's not happy at the moment, is it?

19:37Gary Neville:Yeah, no, it's not happy. I've never been convinced by them really in terms of the plan and I'm talking about the bigger, the wider project, the plan, the long-term contracts, the really young players. Of course, I want them to sign young players. I mean, that's a great model to sign young players, but to leave young players without an experienced spine of a goalkeeper, a centre-back a centre-forward to have people of presence and sort of what would be to be able to if you understand 7 or 8, 9, 10, 12 young players that are between the age of 20 and 23 you need to put experienced players and leaders around them simple as that it is not a recruitment policy just to sign young players without thinking about how you're going to actually manage and care for those young players in difficult moments in the matches like now, or even put an experienced manager around them.

20:27Gary Neville:So I said this about Enzo Morescu, he's obviously a brilliant coach, Morescu, and some of the players have confirmed that to us in the last couple of weeks, but a young coach doesn't need a young sporting director, doesn't need young players, doesn't need a young ownership. There has to be somewhere within that a real experience of knowledge and knowing and expertise and intelligence of how to get through these types of moments, and I can't imagine now where the leadership is coming from in the club just generally. Who's calming Liam Rossini down? This is a massive job for him. Chelsea's a huge football club and he's going in at a level he's never been in before.

21:00Gary Neville:Who's actually guiding him right now? I can't see that. I can't visualise it. So I just don't think they've got the mix right. The youngest squad in the league, one of the most inexperienced managers, one of the most inexperienced sporting departments when it comes to actually top level elite football at Champions League and sort of the expectations of winning leagues at Chelsea and an ownership that's fresh and been in two or three years. So that's the thing at the moment I struggle with. What we've seen today from Chelsea, for me, is what Chelsea are. They can be really talented and bright in matches and actually in the first half they did show some elements of that, but then they can look very immature and physically just be out-muscled and thrown aside and swatted like a fly.

21:39Gary Neville:But that's young players, that's what you get. So for me, it's a struggle. And I think you add to that the sort of what would be, yeah, I'm going to call it ill-discipline. of Enzo Fernandes and Kukurea who have been speaking up in the last couple of weeks. Look, I've got to be careful because I speak up and I say things publicly at times. But as a football player in a dressing room, what do the rest of their teammates... So when you speak like Enzo Fernandes does and Kukurea, that is entirely selfish. It's entirely selfish. Because it's not helping your manager, who's young and inexperienced.

22:16Gary Neville:It's not helping your teammates. It's not helping the fans because they're thinking there's discontent. And in a period where you really needed to sort of knuckle down, you've just gone out of the Champions League, you've been mauled by Paris Saint-Germain, which is actually no embarrassment, by the way, they're a good team. You needed everybody to pull together and just sort of knuckle down and stay in that sort of what would be mode of tightness. And when you've got your best players and your most experienced players that they have got, and they haven't got many experienced players, but the two of them that they have are obviously demonstrating discontent and sort of saying that the previous manager was good and we liked him and we're not quite sure why it changed.

22:51Gary Neville:So I 100 % agree with the idea that there has to be consequence. If you're an employee in any business in this country and you work for someone and you start slagging off your immediate boss and your employer, you're going to probably end up in a bit of trouble, aren't you? You're probably going to lose your job or you're going to get suspended or you're going to basically get warned. It's a fact. I don't care who you are, whether you work in a football business or a non-football business. So there had to be consequence. I heard Micah before the game say that he thought that maybe give Enzo Fernandez one game and that would have been enough and it would have been Port Vale and then get him back for City.

23:27Gary Neville:That might have been a clever thing to do, but it wouldn't have really demonstrated consequence because everybody would have said, oh, it's easy to see what you've done here. You've left him out against Port Vale, he probably would have done that anyway. You know what I mean? He's been travelling and he's been away. Leave him out of an FA Cup match that you're going to win, that's fine. So I think what they've done is they've tried to say, no, you need to basically have the camera on you against Manchester City and be in the stand with everybody knowing that you've been ill-disciplined. I think that Jurgen Klopp would have disciplined someone.

23:55Gary Neville:I think Pep Guardiola would have disciplined someone. I think Stralix Ferguson would have disciplined someone. I think Jose Mourinho would have disciplined someone if they'd said the things that Denzel Fernandes said. So that can't be helpful. The problem is those players are still going into the dressing room every day having an influence. And if they've got a bottom lip that's down near your basically shoe, and they're sulking and they're sort of what would be slagging the club off publicly and quite direct towards the manager, the previous manager they liked in Maresca. I think you're going to have a difficult end to the season and it feels to me now like Chelsea will miss out on Champions League football.

24:31Gary Neville:And a few weeks ago, I think they were in a spot whereby I thought Villa were in free fall and that Chelsea, Liverpool and United would get that third, fourth, fifth spot. I actually think now that Chelsea are going to miss out because of what's happened in this last few weeks and where they're at and I think Villa will get there, which I'm happy about. I want Villa to be in there. I think they've done a great job, Unai Emery. So, yeah, I think Chelsea are in a bit of a mess at the moment and I think it's a bit of a reset time in the summer. And the bottom, Leeds play tomorrow. We'll finish on Manchester United-Leeds and you can tee that up for Monday Night Football.

25:03I know you're going, but obviously Spurs is the big story. West Ham had their big win Friday night. Forest get a point and Spurs are feeling a bit... bereft at the moment. Yeah. How are you reading all of that?

25:17Gary Neville:Yeah, I mean, it's as exciting is the wrong word, but it's as interesting as the title race, isn't it? The Spurs question. Can they go down? Will they go down? This will be the biggest club that's ever gone down in the, well, certainly in Premier League. Did we say Premier League history? Yeah, I mean, Villa are a massive club. Yeah, Newcastle might argue. Newcastle. But Tottenham, Joe, I mean, in Champions League finals in the last five, six, seven years and finishing in the top, or winning the Europa League last year, this would be a monstrous sort of moment. Some say it would be good for the game because it would demonstrate competitiveness that anybody can go down in the Premier League.