Neville on Arsenal's late comeback against Newcastle and Man Utd's 'worrying' form under Amorim

0:00Peter Drury:Hello everybody, it's the Gary Neville podcast for St James's Park. There are still Arsenal supporters high above us celebrating what feels at the moment, Gary, in the moment, like a monumental win.

0:11Gary Neville:Yes, yeah, and rightly they should be celebrating. It was absolute bedlam up there. You know, there's nothing better than seeing a last-minute winner, unless it's against your team. But seeing the Arsenal players at the end obviously celebrating and the Arsenal fans up there, that felt big. I think when the first goal went in, you can sort of smell something. And there's a lot of big questions been asked of Arsenal in this last week, but rightly so. And he's changed today. He'll play it down, Mikel Arteta. You'll hear him say, we've not done anything differently. But his team selection at the start of the game is more positive.

0:44Gary Neville:His substitutions were everything he could have thrown at the game. If you're going to come off a football pitch, make sure you've used all your weapons. Make sure you've used everything in your armoury. And he'd done that. So even at 1-1, you know, my message, I was thinking about if it stays 1-1. I would have been, to be fair, praiseworthy of Arsenal. I would have said that they've done everything they possibly can. The manager made the right decisions, he makes the right substitutions, but it's just not quite come for them. But the reason you get the winner at the end is because of the intent.

1:10Gary Neville:I said last week we've got to stop looking at what Mikel Arteta says or what managers say and look at what they do. So if they say they're going to go for it, they want to win the league, they think they can win the league, they believe they should win every single match, then let your substitutions tell us that, let your team selection tell us that. and I'm quite animated here tonight because a week ago I was equally animated in a different way because I felt as though he was leaving his team short a point whereby even the players in the dressing room might have been thinking ah you've not played Eze you've not played Saka you've played Mourinho you've played Trossard you've not played Martinelli and his own players need to be let free he's got a brilliant squad I think he's got the best squad in the league and maybe one of the best teams in the league I say that quietly because Liverpool are excellent but it's only two teams can win this league Liverpool or Arsenal in my opinion I don't think anybody else can and it may as well be you if you're in that position you've got to think of it and I even thought travelling up this morning is the pressure on Mikel Arteta to win the league and I was thinking that on the way up for three hours I was thinking are the Arsenal board saying to him that you know second is great because the monetary difference between first and second is very little you're in the Champions League you get a big prize money for finishing second you're consistent the grounds are full every week the people are paying to watch but you're Arsenal football club and you have to win titles and I'm absolutely adamant about that because of what I experienced in my football career whilst battling against Arsenal year in year out and they've got to step up and today they've stepped up when that first goal went in I said big and I thought the second one was coming I genuinely did I thought I could feel that sort of something happening in the ground those Arsenal players and it did happen and I think it's a big moment.

2:52Gary Neville:Look, September, it's ridiculous. I can't even believe I'm speaking like this. Someone who's experienced around sort of, you know, being in title races and saying every single season it doesn't start till March. But what you've got to do along the way is send out some calling cards. You've got to send out some clear messages that we're here and we're proper and that's what I think Arsenal have done today.

3:12Peter Drury:So to what extent did the Liverpool result play into the dynamic of this game? To what extent was there a weight of obligation because of what happened at Selhurst Park yesterday.

3:21Gary Neville:I think it added pressure on, I mean, look, they've been under pressure anyway at Arsenal. If Liverpool had won, they'd have been under big pressure in a different way. But there's no doubt when you're travelling to London like we used to or to Newcastle like Arsenal were yesterday, if the team that you think you're up against that can win the league, lose a game on a Saturday and you're travelling to play on a Sunday, that doesn't half give you a lift. I mean, players and managers will say all day long in interviews that we only concentrate on our own job and they'll play that straight back and tell us basically what the professional says, but the reality of it is that little smile on your face, that little bit of a come on, this is it, we're on, game on.

3:57Gary Neville:I was watching the golf last night and I don't watch a bit of golf, but watching Europe and seeing that sort of element of when someone goes first and misses a putt, it's certainly a lot easier than when they put it in. And that's what Liverpool did. They missed a putt yesterday. They missed a four-footer or an eight-footer Crystal Palace away is now. and Arsenal have gone up here today to their toughest ground. This is a very difficult place for Arsenal to win. You said the record, four in the last five they've lost. So for Arsenal to come here today, yeah, I said before, I feel quite animated because I feel like I've seen, I call it a swing, a momentum shifter.

4:34Peter Drury:Forgive me, you make a good point because people coming into this weekend were saying, listen, Liverpool probably win at Palace and it's conceivable that Arsenal lose at Newcastle because they have. And we were talking about an eight point gap. I mean, there's your swing. Eight potentially has become two, in fact.

4:48Gary Neville:Yeah, and lots of people were thinking that before the weekend. You know, eight points would be too much to sort of catch up. I don't go along with that. I think it's still too early. But, yeah, I just think that what I mentioned before is you don't win the title in September. Arsenal haven't won the title today. Liverpool didn't lose the title yesterday. But what I think Liverpool realised tonight is that they're probably going to be in with a bigger fight than maybe they thought. Maybe they thought they were in with a battle anyway, that they weren't going to have it easy. But there's something in that Liverpool sort of mentality tonight as they go to bed that'll be thinking, you know, they started the game with Saka.

5:26Gary Neville:They started the game with Jochrez. They started the game with Eze. They started the game with Trossard. But then Mourinho comes on. Odegaard comes on. Martinelli comes on. Madweke's not even sort of fit yet. So they've got some real options. They've got some real sort of game changes that can come off the bench. and Mikel Arteta used them. He used them. He actually went 2-3 at the back. He put Trossard at left back at one point and he really did take risks. That's what you have to do. The manager tells the team on the pitch by his substitutions and his team selection how he's thinking about the game.

5:59Gary Neville:If you put four or five defenders on, all of a sudden the manager's playing for a point. He's happy with the result. If a manager puts forwards on and keeps on putting forwards on and keeps on putting forwards on, he's telling you to go for it quite clearly. The one I kept saying about, you know, But Declan Rice actually was sitting a little bit deeper. And I kept saying, just release yourself, Declan. You might concede a second, but take the risk. Take the risk. Release yourself. You've got Zubamendi back there for much of the game alongside. Him and Gabriel and Saliba can deal with that counter-attack.

6:31Gary Neville:Take the risk. And I think there was an element of that. I mean, obviously, both goals came from set-pieces. Declan Rice did put a great cross in. But, yeah, I think it's a big moment. It may not prove to be at the end of the season who were ever getting carried away over nothing, but just instinctively it feels like something's happened here today.

6:46Peter Drury:Do you feel like it's an Arsenal blueprint? Is this what he would carry to future away games, do you think?

6:52Gary Neville:Look, there might be certain games where the 2-1 up, where he has to go and completely play the opposite and take every forward off and go defensively because they're under the cosh. You adapt to the game, but what I'm absolutely unequivocal about is that when you're drawing in a game as an Arsenal, a Liverpool, a Manchester United, a Manchester City, 99 times out of 100 you've got to be thinking how do I win this match and more often than not you're going to need to make attacking substitutions that tell your players the intent and the one thing that Arsenal are guilty of at times is basically sort of recycling it a little bit safely not taking too many risks having safer players on the pitch and it results in a good formulate performance they're a good performing team but if you're going to go that extra yard that we asked them to last week, that extra step.

7:40Gary Neville:You've got to do something. You've just got to do something that sort of changes the ordinary. You know, that little bit extra that takes you away from being sort of predictable and that little bit of safety and that pragmatic element of what Arsenal are at times. Get rid of it. You don't need to be. You've got absolutely brilliant options up front with players who are really exceptionally talented. Let them go. Let them be free. You've got enough. You've got a brilliant back line. you know, Mosquera, Saliba, Gabriel two fantastic defensive full-backs in Calafiore and Timber and Ben White and Miles Lewis-Skelly to back them up you don't need anything else back there you've got a great goalkeeper everything's about scoring goals two, three, four, hurting teams and today they'll have big, big smiles going back down to London tonight and I think they'll realise that is a blueprint moving forward and Mikel Arteta, I'll say it again And he'll say that nothing's changed in a week.

8:38Gary Neville:It has. It has. He's taken more risks today than he did last Sunday. And fortune favours the brave.

8:44Peter Drury:Horrible one for Newcastle, Gary. Especially after Liverpool. You know, same thing's happened again.

8:49Gary Neville:Yeah. And look, it is a horrible one for Newcastle. I didn't think they played at the best. I mean, look, they fought. They're solid defensively. They were hanging in there. A little bit like City last week at one point when Eddie Howe went to five at the back. And you couldn't argue with it because there was a wave after wave of attack. But yeah, they'll be disappointed. They'll be gutted with how the season started. But I think the ingredients are right here. There's no need to panic. You know, those Newcastle fans at the end, there's still a lot of them, I think, were appreciative of the performance.

9:21Gary Neville:They played against a good side. And I don't think that there's need for changes here or anything like that. I think they just need to get into their flow. I think they'll rise up the league. I think they'll win a lot of points. They'll win a lot of matches here. And today they just played against, I think, probably at this moment in time, maybe the best team in the league on performance levels. And they're very difficult to play against Arsenal.

9:45Peter Drury:OK, Liverpool then. And I need to ask this question in the context of Crystal Palace because there'll be supporters of their club listening saying, hey, you're talking about Liverpool and Arsenal. We're up there in the top three. We're in the best run of form in the land. We're Crystal Palace. We're proud of it. So in dealing with Liverpool, please deal with Crystal Palace as well.

10:01Gary Neville:Yeah, I mean, let's start with Glasner's celebration. What a brilliant sight that was, seeing him sprint down the touchline in sort of a last, well, not a last minute, when it was 95, 96 minutes. I like Enketiah. I like Enketiah a lot. I was happy for him. He's obviously not always playing at Crystal Palace, but they had loads of chances in the first half. Alisson, I've only seen the highlights. It wasn't on live that game, but you see Alisson's made some world-class saves. It's not as if it's a fluke that Crystal Palace have won. and they're playing really well and they've got a really good coach.

10:33Gary Neville:So well done to them. Yeah, it's a brilliant day for Crystal Palace. I think it's been a brilliant last 12 months. They seem to go in from strength to strength. And then for Liverpool, they have tightened up in certain games but in a lot of the other games they have looked like they're going to concede goals. They have looked like you can get at them. They've looked a little bit more loose and they've conceded two goals in a few games. And if you concede two goals in games, there'll be moments where your front players don't basically do it for you. and Ekotike getting sent off in the Carabao, got a debate in the week about whether that was a bad one and whether he should be, you know, rollocked for it or whether he should be let off though because he's a young kid.

11:09Gary Neville:I actually thought that's one that could cost you a little bit at the time, I just thought it was a silly one and if he'd have been there on Saturday he may have been able to get Liverpool over the line so not blaming him but things like that do make a difference and Liverpool, like you say, they scored goals to get them out of trouble in moments this season and it's not going to continue all the time So, yeah, there's something to think about for Liverpool. But, you know, I like the way they play. You know, when I go and watch Liverpool play, it hurts me to think that they're exciting, the way in which they sort of approach the game.

11:38Gary Neville:They take chances. They have loads of attacking options. They always look to score loads of goals and score more than the opposition, which sounds really basic. But they're not sort of sat back looking to pinch games. They're there really going punch for punch, throwing everything that they can. So, you've got a lot of admiration for the way in which they do it. But, you know, you will get caught out from time to time. but I think they're going to be in a hell of a race with Arsenal this year. I think today has cemented it for me. I think we needed to see that from Arsenal in context of what Liverpool did yesterday.

12:06Gary Neville:If Arsenal come here today and play pragmatic and draw the game 1-1, but it's a pragmatic 1-1, I think I'm saying something's just flicked. A switch has flicked this week in that Arsenal training ground and it's Mikel Arteta that's put his finger on it and he's thought, right, I'm going to get my best players out there. I think that's a big moment.

12:26Peter Drury:will come, I'm afraid, to Manchester United. But before we do that, again, just hearing the voices of supporters in my head now, dealing with the big ones, whilst Sunderland are up there, in the context of what you and everyone has been saying about newly promoted teams competing, a word on them because aren't they flying?

12:44Gary Neville:I've not watched them live yet, but I think first Monday night football of the season, they played that first home game, didn't they, against West Ham, I think it was. And sometimes when you like what you see, you know you see teams that obviously have got you know they're going to be defending for large parts of the game but then you see them sprint forward and then they put balls into the box and they play with intent and positivity they've got physicality about them so I really like what I've seen and I've only seen highlights so far and parts of games but it's brilliant what they've done and we need to see teams from the championship that come up do well we really need to see that it's a big part of the Premier League and teams need to be given encouragement without going bankrupting themselves.

13:23Gary Neville:So I think what Leeds have done and Burnley have done and Sunderland, look, it'll still be difficult as the season goes on, but it's a great start for them. It's a great win again at Nottingham Forest, who were a tough team to play against for the majority of last season and just finding their feet this season. So yeah, what a great start for Sunderland and they deserve a special mention.

13:41Peter Drury:OK, Manchester United, it was another grim day yesterday at Brentford. There's no escaping that. It feels like we're just on a loop asking the same question week after week. So there you are, the floor's yours. Where are you at with it all?

13:56Gary Neville:I'm very, very worried. Very, very worried. I think we needed yesterday because yesterday was going to put into context the Chelsea game. If United go and win yesterday and do well, the Chelsea game becomes located started against Chelsea. Yesterday, the performance that we saw and the result that we saw means that you feel that the Chelsea game was skewed by sendings off and 10 men and all those other things. You start to look at Chelsea less positively. And that's just football. So I think we needed yesterday. I think there were a lot of United fans coming out of that ground last Saturday, including me.

14:35Gary Neville:I was at the game against Chelsea thinking, right, OK, Brentford and Sunderland. You know, Brentford away, Sunderland at home next week. There's a real opportunity here to get nine points on the board on the bounce. and then you'll be well up there with it being at the start of the season, you know, in the top six or eight probably. But yesterday was a really poor performance and a real worry. Going into a little bit more detail, I felt yesterday for the first time, just through instinct, watching it on the television, seeing players' faces, seeing players' body language, that there might be an element of players really doubting the system and what's going on.

15:19Gary Neville:Because there was something that happened in that game yesterday that I mentioned on my podcast two or three weeks ago that I said we couldn't see again. Do you remember after the Grimsby game in midweek? And I can't remember what game United played at the weekend after it, but we did the podcast on here, and I said that Mason Mount ended up at left wing back. There's sticking to your plan, and there's your coach that's got an idea and making sure that he delivers that idea and not flip-flopping with his idea with players, which can sometimes undermine what you're trying to achieve. But then when you're putting Mason Mount at left wing back and he's ended up at left wing back again yesterday in the last five minutes of the game, it starts to look awful.

15:59Gary Neville:Let's be really clear. And the other thing that I've said, I said it under Ten Hag towards the end, he keeps changing his back four. That's what I used to say under Ten Hag because he didn't play with the back five. kept changing his back four his centre backs I mean Arsenal have changed their centre backs today so I'm conscious that it can happen but yesterday there was a there was a shot of Shaw and Maguire on the bench I think maybe five ten minutes from the end of the match and they deserve to be on the bench by the way I've got no problem with that but he changes his back three or his back five every single match Jorreau comes on Jorreau comes off Jorreau starts Jorreau doesn't start De Ligt comes on De Ligt comes off Maguire comes off Maguire stays on Shaw usually stays on but sometimes he comes off Dalot's off on you cannot continually keep changing your back three and back five it's impossible I mean that is the sort of part of the pitch where you need reliability and you need continuity to build relationships so Ruben Armand has had a pre-season he's had a week now in between each of his games nearly or most of the weeks because Manchester United aren't in Europe yet the performances are as poor as ever.

17:10The results are catastrophic, really,

17:14Gary Neville:in Manchester United terms. The money that's been spent has been big. And there's some things that I'm seeing that are a massive worry and some things that can't happen. You can't put Mason Mount at left wing back. I'm sorry, it just can't happen. I can't watch Mason Mount play left wing back in a football team. I struggle at times to watch him in his position. But actually putting him out there on the left wing, or left wing back is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. So I am very, very concerned. I really am. Because the manager's obviously a good coach. He's had a great record in Portugal. But it's not clicking at all.

17:50Gary Neville:It's not clicking. And the thing is for me, and I said just before, maybe I didn't finish what I was going to say, but it looked to me like the players and the idea are not connecting at all. You can just see their body language and their faces. And yeah. Yeah, a problem. It's a big problem.

18:07Peter Drury:or what next?

18:13Gary Neville:I think when it gets to this point, you've got to get to, you've got to see what happens next Saturday against Sunderland. I think you've got a game at home against Sunderland. The Sunderland, as we know, are obviously in decent form. But if that game goes against Manchester United, you're going to start seeing very, very, very big questions being asked of the ownership? Big questions. They've brought a young manager in. He's played a completely different system. They've invested in a completely different system. They brought Dorgo in and they brought other players. And if they were to be 14th, 15th, 16th in October, which was where I said at the start of the season, if Manchester United are where they were last season in October, it's not a one-off.

19:01Gary Neville:It becomes what you are. And it becomes a pattern. And then managers come under huge pressure. We've seen what's happened with Graham Potter in the last few days. So, look, that's why I'm worried. That's why I'm worried because this is not going to go away and it's going to build in this next week or so. And I think that a victory is needed more than ever at Old Trafford on Saturday against Sunderland.