No excuses for Amorim on 'embarrassing' night for Man Utd as 10-man Everton win at Old Trafford

0:00Seb Hutchinson:Well, welcome to the Gary Neville podcast on an eventful evening at Old Trafford. Gary, where to start? How about we start with the red card? We don't see incidents like that too often. Only the third time in the Premier League that a player's been sent off for, inverted commas, fighting their own teammates. Thoughts on that to begin with?

0:17Gary Neville:Shall we start with the worst decision of the weekend? Me agreeing to do a second podcast yesterday, thinking United were going to go fourth. Yeah, of course it will be nice. Let the traffic go. talk about United are back yeah the red card I'm torn torn between the referee making the right decision by the letter of the law he's obviously slapped his own player whether you slap your own player or an opposition player then that point around is it negligible subjective versus I just felt like it could have been avoided and it could have been one that I think a yellow card everyone would have said okay I get on with it the thing is I think that actually the problem maybe for Idrissa Gueye was that he had gone hadn't he, his head had gone a little bit now I think it went more after the red card appeared because I think he realised then what had happened but yeah an odd situation something that's never nice to see we've seen it only a couple of times or so in history of Premier League football so very unusual but it wasn't like a massive scrap where you think right get them both off, it was just a little bit of a tap wasn't it, it was like a you know the edge of your sort of fingers and yeah, didn't have the best view of it either.

1:29Gary Neville:So you're thinking to yourself, well, how much of a slap was it? But look, he's given the referee a decision to make. He's right on top of it, the referee. And it put his team, you would imagine, in a very bad position,

1:41Seb Hutchinson:but didn't quite work out like that. I mean, you feared for Everton at that point. They'd made a strong start in the game. But after that, they were fantastic, starting with the goal from Dewsbury Hall.

1:52Gary Neville:Yeah, I mean, it was a great goal, but that first 12 minutes, you're right, they were really good they were authoritative from the beginning they were quicker to the ball they pushed high up the pitch they were pressing well United never got going in that first 12 minutes but like you say the red card you're thinking okay how am I United going to play but I just thought that it was a mixture from Everton of really good defending really good shape really good energy frustrated United but also I thought that when they got on the ball through Indy Dewsbury Hall and Grealish and Barry up front being a bit of a sort of battering Raman as someone who flicked it on.

2:26Gary Neville:I thought they did really well. I thought Garner was fantastic in midfield. They all took the ball. They didn't just pump it forward. They were a bit back to the wall in the second half, as you'd expect. But I thought after the red card in the first half, they played some really good stuff, particularly down here in front of us through NGIA. Look, they deserve the goal. I mean, it was coming. There was a couple of minutes before that where Dewsbury Hall, I think, had got involved as well. He cuts inside. You know, he puts it into, I'm not going to say the far corner because it wasn't. I thought the goalkeeper probably should have done better with it.

2:56Gary Neville:But look, they deserved it Everton. I thought that they were absolutely magnificent in that first half after the red card to respond to what is quite a challenging situation, not just going down to 10 men, but the way in which you've gone down to 10 men, which can, to be fair, I mean, the rails, you can basically, you can fall apart after something like that and they didn't do. I thought they were fantastic from a mentality perspective, a shape perspective, a physical perspective, a defensive. They were absolutely brilliant. I have not got enough words for how Everton play tonight. And those Everton fans that we can hear in that far corner that are being kept in, they should be unbelievably and will be and are unbelievably proud tonight because they've seen some bad performances here down the years.

3:38Gary Neville:I've seen some Everton teams come here and wilt. So poor. Beaten before they actually even get out of the tunnel because they're so deep in the game, so back foot, so glass half empty. And you've seen tonight from the first minute that back four pushed up they were ready for it they fancied it a little bit and they fancied it a lot more than those red shirts and David Moyes obviously someone who's never beaten Manchester United at Old Trafford has finally done it in quite unexpected circumstances unexpected before the game that you thought they were going to win but certainly unexpected having gone down to 10 men so yeah you talk about Everton I watched them a few weeks ago at Goodison Park then at Goodison Park I'm going to carry on calling it to the Sun Park.

4:24Gary Neville:The Hill Dickinson Stadium. Yes, a couple of weeks ago at the Hill Dickinson Stadium, a few weeks ago at Hill Dickinson Stadium against Tottenham, and not a lot happened for them on that day. It was a difficult day for them, but tonight, you know, it's a magical night, absolutely memorable, and like I say, there's 3 ,000 or 4 ,000 of those Everton fans over in that far corner who are going to go back to Merseyside tonight and be absolutely buzzing, absolutely buzzing.

4:48Seb Hutchinson:Well, there's a lot fewer Manchester United supporters in the ground. now the hard bit about their display tonight. You were particularly frustrated during the commentary about Amarim's reaction to the situation and not maybe the substitutions, the positioning of players.

5:04Gary Neville:We can start with the manager, but I think we must start with the players. You have to when you're playing football at the Premier League. I'm not even going to say at Manchester United. I'm just going to say at Premier League and professional level. You've got to adapt to the circumstances within the game. in the first half I mentioned it looked as if they didn't know they'd not planned how to play with 10 men and I'm probably to be fair letting them off the hook the players there with regards to well it's pretty damn obvious isn't it how you play with 10 men you shift the ball a bit well you shift the ball quicker you shift it from side to side you switch play you stretch the pitch and make it as big as possible and this pitch always feels big at Old Trafford you make sure that you literally run the other team ragged Manchester United kept at times three and four and five players maybe not behind the ball but maybe behind well just a one Everton player with Barry up front the three at the back had to form differently they had to change now that doesn't mean to say I know that Ruben Amrim has said he'll never change his three at the back system I get it but I'm sorry Luke Shaw has to go forward and play like a left winger he has to bring Euro around with Dillard make sure that they mark Barry snuff him out one of you pick him up, get tight, one of you drop off behind, make sure he doesn't get the ball, and Casemiro and Bruno Fernandes move forward, make sure you don't play again too deep, and the rest of the players, to be fair, make sure you try and create some form of overload.

6:33Gary Neville:I mean, I played here as 10 men a lot of times, and quite simply, you would never see me back. I'd be literally as wide as possible with either David Beckham or Antonio Valencia or Cristiano Ronaldo on that right-hand side, and Ryan Giggs and Dennis Erwin or Patrice Evra would be as wide as possible on this side. And you'd leave basically Scholes in there, literally switching play, which Bruno Fernandes can do, and you'd have that four in midfield of Everton charging from side to side, and eventually you work them, you fatigue their legs, you get bodies in the box. Manchester United left one man up front all night in Xerxes.

7:08Gary Neville:They had to have two up. Just forget the two up from a point of view of changing your system, Ruben. Two up from a point of view of when there's crosses going in the box. You've got presence. You know, I know that Tarkovsky and Keane, what you're trying to do with Tarkovsky and Keane, he's not asking necessarily for players to go and beat them in the air because they're better than probably Manchester United's players that were on the pitch. What you're asking to do is occupy them. You're occupying the centre-backs. And I'm going to go back and say, let's pretend that's Cole and York. They're not going to beat two giant centre-halves in the air, but they can occupy the centre-backs, which means that someone else can maybe make a run in and get the goal.

7:43Gary Neville:Casemiro or whoever. And I just thought United was so pedestrian. and so negative having gone to 10 men. You've got to flood forward. It's got to be like the Alamo when you're playing against 10 men. And they still kept this three at the back. All right, Luke Shaw ambled forward a little bit. I was particularly harsh on Luke Shaw, less so on Jorow, because Jorow is a centre-back. Luke Shaw's not a centre-back. Luke Shaw is a left-back who can go forward and go forward well. An actor's got a good left foot. So you'd be the one who dominates and goes forward on that left-hand side. Jor-O comes round a little bit.

8:18Gary Neville:You don't want him on this right-hand channel in the ball, which we saw for so much in the second half. And he's just playing passes. He's not capable of doing that. That's not his game. So it was harder on Shaw. I thought Shaw was so disappointing in the second half. I thought the substitution, and I'm riffing now, in no particular order as I feel it, bringing Dalot on that far side and blocking that side off. I know Dogu was having a tough night. He wasn't great at all. But at least he's got a left foot. but putting Dalot on meant that all of a sudden that he's having to turn back the way on his right foot and play around now he's a capable player Diego Dalot he's not a left wing back though he's not a left winger he's finding himself as a left winger Dalot is not a left winger I just think the only player that I could say that maybe had anything about him Ahmad showed a little glimpse of something it was nowhere near good enough that was a really bad night for United.

9:16Gary Neville:It was an embarrassment at times.

9:18Seb Hutchinson:Have you touched on part of the issue, though? A personnel issue, perhaps? They weren't able to have those substitutes to bring on that could... You mentioned the likes of Ronaldo and Beckham and Valencia. They don't have those players available to them all.

9:30Gary Neville:I wasn't referring to those players in terms of quality. I was referring about the actual positions that the players who were out there should have been in. Look, they've got injuries. Cesc Oles injured, Cunha's injured. But forget that. There's no excuses tonight, by the way. and not entertain that one bit. You know, you think about Everton's squad. They lost Seamus Coleman after one minute, two minutes. They had a man sent off. No excuses. Let's not start that game. I think we need to be very careful. Look, United have got players missing, but so has every other club. Everton dominated them with 11 men and with 10 men in a different way of domination, but they dominated them through their fight and their spirit.

10:04Gary Neville:I thought that was a Manchester United team tonight who have come here off the back of a decent run, a decent sort of international break between October and November and maybe we've all fallen into that trap of just thinking United are back, there's a bit of expectancy, they're going to go up to fourth or fifth in the league, level with Villa, they're going to be 21 points, they're going to be ahead of Liverpool. We're all thinking it. Let's be clear, let's be honest with ourselves. Why wouldn't we think it? You're playing against Everton who we ordinarily, to be fair, beat here and it's complacency.

10:35Gary Neville:And complacency will kill you. the minute that you think as a football player that you just have to turn up on that pitch and you're Manchester United and you can play or any football club you're done and they've turned up tonight off the back of an international break they've had a full five six days break all together it's been perfect you couldn't ask for any more there's no international football that's interfered with this build-up there's no European football for them they've had the perfect amount of time to really prepare for this match and it's as if they've imagined in their heads they're going to be in the Champions League places and they thought that maybe before the game and it just smelt of complacency from minute one actually they weren't at it from the beginning I mean that first 12 minutes before Odrissa Gay got sent off Everton were by far the better team quicker to the ball sharper more positive look more in have more intent about them and that is a bad one for United and look I do think they've been a lot better in the last few weeks I think that that probably takes us back to Brentford away and you just you can't go from here good standards and the fight that they showed in certain games in that period between the Liverpool game, the Forest game the Tottenham game you can't go from that to that it erodes confidence it erodes trust it erodes trust we're trying to build a trust in a manager we're trying to build a trust in a team and tonight the fans have left that game I mean they booed collectively at the end it was allowed and rightly so I mean that was a really poor performance but it erodes trust and tonight you lose a lot again it's almost as if you've gone sort of like two or three steps forward everyone's feeling a little bit better about themselves and you've just gone back to the start again and look there's a long way to go and to be fair it's a tight league and everyone's being inconsistent, everyone's beating one another.

12:31Gary Neville:There's only Arsenal, really, that are demonstrating the level of consistency that you would say is really acceptable by all the top clubs. So there'll be, you know, opportunities to correct it and put it right. But you can lose football matches, but you can't lose them like that. You can't lose them like that. That's nowhere near good enough. It's not acceptable.

12:51Seb Hutchinson:Shall we end with another word for Everton, who moved above Liverpool with this win tonight, which is huge for them at this stage of the season, First time in 10 years they've been in this sort of position. And of course for David Moyes with his first win as a visiting manager at Old Trafford. Yeah, he's just there doing his interview and look, he had a bad time here, a difficult time here.

13:12Gary Neville:And he's had a difficult time playing here with other teams. But he can be so proud tonight. Not just proud of how they have demonstrated a fight and a spirit and a resilience and a really good physical level. but the intent of his team, intent pre the red card, but how his team took the ball and were brave after they went to 10. And that was more impressive. You know, they really did a good job and they were really sort of got on the ball. And I've seen Everton teams come here down the years. And like I say, I've seen them where they've literally sort of been a bit half-hearted. They've not really felt it.

13:50Gary Neville:They've had no belief in here. They had that tonight. And it's not just because they've won. And it's not just because they've gone to 10 men. They had it before that. I just thought the first 10, 15 minutes when they were pushing up the pitch, they were pressing, they looked like they were getting after United. They deserved it. He set his team up really well. That should give them an enormous amount of confidence. And like you say, for them to be above Liverpool at this stage in the season, you would have imagined it. It's a brilliant position for Everton to be in. And yeah, like I say, I think that you can have no qualms tonight if you're a Manchester United fan.

14:23Gary Neville:and if you're an Everton fan, it's a night that you deserve because your team did you absolutely proud and played better. They played a better football match, full stop. Sometimes you can get smash and grabs with 10 men. Sometimes you can get smash and grabs with 11 men when you're a team that are a little bit lower down the league and a little bit less quality than the team that you're playing against. That wasn't a smash and grab. That was a fully deserved victory. Well done to Everton. Well, Gary, thank you very much for the bonus pod. Didn't go the way you would have wanted. No, it was... Yeah.

14:52Gary Neville:Do you know something, Seb? You're sometimes getting the balance right. You're a United fan, and you're trying to do a commentary where you're basically watching a football match, but you end up getting angry. You're angry because you've had that lived experience of being out there on that pitch and know, come on.

15:10Seb Hutchinson:You're like that.

15:11Gary Neville:You're thinking, come on, go forward. Just do something with intent. Do something like you mean it. And so much in that second half you could look at and think it was wrong. and sometimes you can't put words around, you can't explain it, you're just watching it and it's apathy. It's apathy. You know, and look, you sometimes get emotional as you talk as a fan and sometimes you can get that balance wrong but like I say, from a point of view of watching the other team play, you look at Everton and got full of admiration for them and deserved everything that they got tonight but from a United perspective, you're thinking that you want your team to sort of just lift and go and grow and take the pressure off the manager and that just takes it back and we're at the start of the winter straight, the period of the season that I used to love most.

15:55Gary Neville:Get the international breaks out of the way. You've got 10 or 15 games now without reply, without international breaks, without a lot of European football at moments during this period. It finishes obviously in December. It's a really enjoyable period of the season where the Premier League really gets into its stride and you've got to set off on that straight really, really strong and Everton have done that tonight and Manchester United haven't.

16:18Seb Hutchinson:It's a good way to end it, Gary. thanks very much thank you