Odegaard grabs winner for Arsenal in London derby | Reasons why fans should be very excited about Alonso's Chelsea | Man Utd pegged back twice at Everton as Nev questions defensive issues

0:00Peter Drury:Welcome one and all to the Gary Neville podcast which comes from North London today at the end of what was a compelling derby between Arsenal and Chelsea. It was billed as perhaps the first big signpost game of the season. Gary, what are you reading on that signpost?

0:16Gary Neville:Yeah, I mean, look, the first thing is just to talk generally about the match and that first 25 minutes, half an hour was exhausting. It was like, you know, a game just flies by. And yeah, the first game this season where I really felt you're sort of in the game and everybody at home would have been excited watching it. It was a brilliant start, a breathtaking start. And we knew it would be a good game. I thought it was just going to be, I said the other night after the Arsenal-Villa game, that we're really looking forward to this. For some reason, I thought both managers, particularly Xabi Alonso, might retreat and reverse back down the road a little bit and not pick Neto at right wing back and play a bit more defensive.

0:55Gary Neville:But he didn't do that. He went with everything. And that obviously made the game a lot better. And even from a Mikel Arteta point of view, he could have gone a little bit more solid if he'd have wanted to. Maybe Eze a bit more experienced, maybe less progressive as Solis on that left-hand side. And I thought Eze would play, but he stuck with Solis. And again, Solis played well in the game, which was big for him after obviously having a difficult night at Villa. So just the general approach of both teams to the game was excellent. And I think it's particularly worth mentioning that we know that Chelsea have been exciting.

1:29Gary Neville:If exciting is conceding goals and being end-to-end and being involved in matches where there's basically lots of goals in them, then that's what Chelsea have been. And Arsenal are seen as being the opposite of that because they just control matches. They're excellent defensively. But they went punch for punch in the first 25-30 minutes. and I said a couple of times it was great to see Arsenal in a game like that because we don't quite often see them like that. They tend to sort of what would be struggle and lean on their opponents, don't they? And then wear them down and then get the goal and maybe get another and see the game out without conceding.

2:03Gary Neville:And that's normally, I mean, it's brilliant for them and it's an excellent way to win leagues. And I think they'll win the league this season through doing that. But it was good to know that in a game whereby it was a basketball match for periods that they also could compete in that part of the game and it was really good to watch.

2:19Peter Drury:Are Arsenal concerned at all that it was a basketball match? And they look such a mature, as champions would, sort of coherent team. They look almost like, I know you never reached this point, like the finished article. Yeah. So would that concern them at all that they were drawn into that kind of game?

2:36Gary Neville:I think that they were, look, they can look back upon it now and think probably that they enjoyed it. I'm sure their players were enjoying it at the time. I'm not sure Mikel Arteta and Gabriel Hines and the others in the dugout will have thought that's the way I want the game to go. They'll have wanted Chelsea to be more sort of what would be suppressed on counter-attack and playing out. They would have wanted to just append them in a little bit more and do what they do. If you think about what Arsenal do, they're brilliant defensively. They get into a shape. They usually go in front. And what they do to go in front is they'll be nil-nil.

3:12Gary Neville:and then they'll need a goal and it'll be a Calafiore or it'll be a Declan Rice and they'll just shift it up a gear for five minutes. They'll get the goal and then they'll be able to come back and just sort of recycle it and sort of see what the other team can do. And that Arsenal do that. They did that at Villa on Monday night and when they're playing against good teams. Today, the fact that Morgan Rodgers scored in the first, well, minute and a half meant that they were dragged and pulled emotionally into a game. and I mean I love emotional football I think I've said that many times before you've got to respect and you can't not respect the Pep Guardiola organised football which is very difficult to play against and Mikel Arteta does it slightly differently but they're usually very organised in their attack quite methodical and they wear you down but it's brilliant to see particularly I think in the Premier League we love emotional games don't we where really tactics go out of the window for a period and players are moving into different areas and taking chances and it felt like that.

4:13Gary Neville:There was a desperation to the game for 25, 30 minutes and I love that side of English football and Premier League football but you don't often see it here, which is a good thing for Arsenal. You wouldn't want to see that every single week. So, yeah, I just thought it was a good day. Good day for both teams. I mean, a better day for Arsenal. But I said at the end of the game in the wrap-up that I feel that when Chelsea's players go home tonight and Xabi Alonso goes home tonight. I thought actually Arsenal would win this game comfortably today. I thought they would win 2-3-0. And that's not happened.

4:46Gary Neville:And that's down to Chelsea's style of play, getting a goal, the way in which they hung in there at times when it was difficult for them. And they were a threat going forward and they looked dangerous. So yeah, I think it was a... We knew Arsenal were better. They have been better. So well done to Arsenal, particularly going a goal down and coming back to 2-1. But well done to Chelsea as well for how they've gone about it. And I'm sure those Chelsea fans in that far corner will be disappointed in the Chelsea fans at home, but they'll think, actually, I can watch this. This is something that I can sort of live with and buy into.

5:17Peter Drury:Just before we go to Chelsea properly, you made Martin Odegaard your player of the game.

5:21Gary Neville:Yeah.

5:22Peter Drury:Last year, listen, he was captain of the team that won the league and went to the Champions League final. But there was a perception, he missed some football, that he wasn't at his very, very best. He's had a wonderful World Cup with Norway, which went very, very well for him. How good is he now?

5:36Gary Neville:Excellent. And look, I wonder whether, and I think Timber's the best right-back in the league, by the way, but there is something that Erdogan, Ben White and Saka have. I'm going back in time to Ashley Cole, Perez and Henry. That three on that left-hand side of the pitch for Arsenal against me is the best three on a side that I've ever faced. Absolutely exceptional. Literally, you had to have eyes in the back of your head. you didn't know where the runners were coming from there was someone dropping in there was someone going round that way and there was someone running in there and it was like what do I do and I always remember Sir Alex Ferguson saying to me Gary if you're not sure just stand still because it was almost a case of you'd have Perez dropping in there so you're thinking should I go in with Perez but if you go in with Perez Ashley Cole will go round you that way if you go out to Ashley Cole on real just drifting in there and running inside you so it was clockwork and there is a bit of that clockwork element to Odegaard, Saka and White.

6:36Gary Neville:And actually even Havertz went over in this first half and played with them. And that four down this side, is where the goal came from, obviously, as well, with Havertz scoring, cutting in. I just feel like he, Ben White does run forward really well in a more predictable way than Timber. Ben White makes those overlaps. And what that does, it takes people then, which opens up that space for Odegaard a little bit more. So that's one thing. Is it that basically he's back with his pals? and he actually just lives in that space comfortably. And that's no disrespect to Tim, because I think he's the best in the league as a full-back.

7:08Gary Neville:The next thing is with Martin Odegaard, I said so many times last season, if I've got a criticism of Arsenal in possession, and I think they're marvellous in possession, the way in which they sort of, what would be, suffocate teams and keep them in, and Gabriel and Saliba or Gabriel and Konza today, as it was, you know, they really push up high and they don't let you out, and I think it's brilliant to do that, because I didn't play in teams that did that. We kept teams pending, but it wasn't through that sort of, such aggressive sort of what would be movements. And Erdogan, if you said to me one thing last season, he did get into a cycle of being too safe.

7:45Gary Neville:He's a wonderful technical player. His understanding of the position is fantastic. He's got real intelligence of a football game and how to play. But if anything, he just got into that sort of little bit of a languid, you know, just playing it sideways and playing the easy pass. What I feel that he can do and is capable of is two things. One, he's capable of being sharper and receiving it on the back foot and then slotting passes through. And I think that helps him when White's running. So that's one thing. So more of that. And then making those late runs into the box more than he does. So we saw the goal today that he scored.

8:22Gary Neville:He's just taken a gamble that something's going to happen off the back of Havertz. And Havertz, I have to say, because he was very close to Odegaard as my man of the match, Havertz, And I think I've called him a good performer. That might be understated. That might be not appreciating his value. He's an excellent forward, Kai Havertz, in every sense. In possession, out of possession, on the counter-attack when he makes the runs, when David Raya gets it. He does so many things really well, Kai Havertz. But he's not got that explosive element of Haaland or even that electricity of maybe even a João Pedro even.

9:01But he's just got a beautiful repertoire about him.

9:08Gary Neville:There's just something that he's really good. He's a really good forward. But Erdegaard, yeah, he sort of makes that movement in behind. So can he get the 10-12 goals, the 10-12 assists that would mean that his control of a game with those output and those numbers would mean that he would be seen as being one of the best in the league. So, yeah, he started the season really well. He had a good World Cup, did really well for Norway. But you're right, he's just getting that sort of element of positivity when he gets on the half turn. Don't become languid in your style and sort of be safely recycling.

9:41Gary Neville:You can do that when you're 2-3-0, of course you can. And you can go and run the game from that number 10 position. But when Arsenal need goals, and particularly at the start of matches, look for danger look for look for those moments where he can impact the sort of what would be the score sheet more than he did last season so he knows what to do I mean he's got the capability and the one thing I would say that I've seen in these last two games now and I'm not sure how that's going to come is that Chelsea were pressing towards the end of the match in the last 10 minutes and Aston Villa were the other night and I think the best Arsenal teams the very best going back in the day with Henry and you're talking about look if this team had an Henri it'd be game over you'd just be announcing the league now we almost are anyway but they just lack that counter-attack and that's why I think Mikel Atat had wanted Julian Alvarez or a player you know Vinicius Junior because if you've got that spring from those deep positions that they will find themselves in look and they comfortably saw Chelsea out in that last 10 minutes you know they didn't feel under threat and it's 2-1 but when you're playing against a team in Europe that are exceptional that are as good as you just the idea that you can go and get that third goal or that second goal at Aston Villa the other night.

10:53Gary Neville:They just missed that. That's the only thing that's missing right now. Excellent defensively, brilliant in midfield, very good in attack. And they're actually, to be fair, not recycling it as much as they used to. They're actually being more sort of what would be probing in their sort of forward play. But when you one goal up with five, 10 minutes to go, I think Mikel Arteta would be saying, how do we get that precision on the counter-attack? Solis played, I think, a bad pass when he could have released, maybe, was it Madweki? I'm not sure. But generally, that's the only thing, the only comment I would have today for Arsenal is that they've took part in a brilliant game.

11:25Gary Neville:They've come out on top. They've got the mentality. They've played like champions to respond to going 1-0 down and well done to them. They deserve the three points.

11:33Peter Drury:You made it very clear as well that you like Chelsea. You've enjoyed what you've seen in their first three games and you've enjoyed today's game. But clearly there's a difference. In purely purposeful terms, not necessarily critical. what have Chelsea got to do to be as good as Arsenal?

11:53Gary Neville:They've got a long way to go to get as good as Arsenal but you remember Mikel Arteta has had this is his sixth season is it? Xabi Alonso has had six weeks so time they're building a new team in the sense that it's a team obviously that part was here last season but then quite a few have come in as well

12:18Gary Neville:I'm actually, to be fair, really positive about what I've seen from Chelsea just generally in this last few weeks. Because I have to say that if you're spending that level of money, which they have over this last few years, the least that you want to see is entertainment. And you want to see look like that'll get you off your seat. And if you're a Chelsea fan going to Stamford Bridge and you're watching Palmer, Rodgers and João Pedro, you know, people say, what was it back in the day? That's worth the admission. It's worth the ticket money in itself. There's some players that you just feel like you'll pay to watch and you'll never feel short-changed.

12:53Gary Neville:I remember when United had those types of players back in the day. If Ronaldo was at United for those years from 2008 to 2011, or 2006, sorry, to 2011, for those four years that he was there at his peak, I know he was there from 2004 or 2005, fans would just never have wanted their money back. Fans would say, I want my money back, it's rubbish. I think Chelsea fans over this last few years will have thought all that money that's been spent by the owners and what direction are we going in and what we're doing. I think they'll really get behind this Chelsea fans because I'm watching it and I'm thinking it's exciting.

13:27Gary Neville:And there's lots of things that they can improve. The back three, they've got that sort of what would be. The back three, when I watch them, it's almost like their legs aren't connected to their hips and the hips aren't connected to their bodies and the bodies aren't connected. It's almost like they're a bit like sort of all over the place. and I look at the sort of best back three probably that I ever saw which was the Juventus and Italy back three with Barzagli, Bonucci and Chiellini. You know, three real giants but they were sort of what would be, they were men. They sort of worked together as a three.

13:59Gary Neville:They knew how to position themselves. They were great in the air. They knew how to push up and when to drop deeper. They organised the people in front of them. What Chelsea haven't got at the back in that back three at the moment and maybe that will come. Maybe they'll need to actually, to be fair, recruit more as they move on through the next year or two with Xabi Alonso. He's done a lot already. He's just got that back three that feels solid. They don't look solid. They look like they're a little bit all over the place. So that's the main thing right now. Emi Martinez should have saved that first goal.

14:31Gary Neville:He's been brought in, to be fair, to be a personality, to be a character. But he's also been brought in to make big saves as well. And I actually thought David Reyes should have saved the Morgan Rodgers one. but he was outstanding after that, David Raya. But I thought Emi Martínez should have saved that first goal. I think he'd be really disappointed with that. So the back three is a question and whether that can grow to be good enough for Fahna. Not reading the one where Havertz dummies it. Again, just that little bit of experience, being wise. Whether the wing-backs are good enough right now.

15:05Gary Neville:But I think Neto's done a very good job saying Hato or Hato?

15:09Peter Drury:Hato, yeah.

15:10Gary Neville:On the far side, he's done okay. Midfield, I think Rhys J, I thought Lavia played well. He was disappointed to go off and I was surprised to see him go off, but they don't want to lose him maybe. Maybe they thought, okay, well, Gusto and James, and that will be a question. Look, if you've got Casado and Lavia in there, I think Chelsea are going to have a very, very good midfield too. But keeping them two fits going to be the question. Casado outstanding, Lavia's an excellent player. So I think if Chelsea can keep that midfield two fit, keep Rhys James fit, they've obviously got that front three they're in a good place and I think they can finish second third is the lowest I see Chelsea finishing so that's a really good you know if you just said that to me a year ago I mean absolutely nowhere I couldn't see where it was going this project you know Javi Alonso before the game said about it's early in this project it is he's trying to re-establish a bit of experience in the spine with Martinez with Henderson with La Croix and Welbeck and I think it's the right way to go you need good experienced players in your dressing room so for me I'm as positive as I have been for three, four, five years about Chelsea because I think they're going in the right direction it's not perfect they were always going to be I think to be fair today on the wrong end of Arsenal because Arsenal are just such a good team we didn't expect them to win today but that was as good as I felt they could have done in the game and I think that to be fair they can go home tonight thinking right okay yeah we can take that confidence out of that defeat and that doesn't sound right does it when you're at sort of the elite level, but I think people will know what I mean by it.

16:42Gary Neville:You can sit here and be, arrogant's the wrong word, and say, you know, it's win or nothing. That's not what football is. There's only one team wins the league every year, and there's only one team wins the Champions League every year, and every elite club in Europe, in England, France, Spain, Germany, want to win it, Italy want to win it. So there is an element of making sure that you're seeing your club going the right direction, and I think Xavi Alonso, I think that these fans over there in the corner that have travelled from Stamford Bridge today will be thinking, yeah, I can buy into what I'm seeing.

17:12Gary Neville:I like this. And I like watching them. Sometimes you'll say, you know, when you get given that sort of, we get sent our fixtures, don't we? I won't be in mind sent some Chelsea fixtures. You know, sometimes you get a team and you think, that'll be hard work watching that game. And sometimes you think, actually, I'm really excited about that game because I think it'll be a good watch. And I think Chelsea will be a very good watch this season.

17:34Peter Drury:We're just concentrating on the Super Sunday games essentially today. So the other one of those, which obviously you watched very closely, I didn't, but I know it finished Everton 2, Manchester United 2, Gary. And the first I saw of you this afternoon was moments after that equaliser had hit the net. So you've had time to take breath. What did you see in that game?

17:53Gary Neville:I watched all of it. And? Every little bit of it. Yeah, I stayed in the truck. To be fair, some grounds, just to explain to people, not that you're interested, but maybe you are. some grounds it's really difficult to get from the truck we have like a Winnebago don't we that we can go in and watch there's like three screens in there and we can watch both games with the three games on we can watch three and usually I like to be in there and not come up to the stand as early as possible some grounds though it's difficult to do that actually Old Trafford's one of them because you've got to go all the way back across the forecourt to get to the actual compound but at Arsenal you can just walk underneath can't you and get back to it so I I just thought, right, OK, I'm going to set myself in that truck.

18:34Gary Neville:I'm going to sit down in that corner and I'm going to watch this football. Partly, well, mainly because I'm a United fan, wanted to watch them, thought it would be a really good Super Sunday, really excited about the first game and really excited about the second game. So I watched it all. I didn't watch the last 20 seconds maybe after, as soon as that goal went in from Maitland-Niles. Yeah, I got up. It was 5-4 and I thought, right, I better go up and do this Arsenal-Chelsea game. a little bit more miserable than I was before that.

19:09I mean, look,

19:11Gary Neville:Manchester United are conceding two goals a game. That's it. From a United perspective, you can't concede two goals a game. I mean, they're on track to concede 76 goals if they carry on. They won't do. They won't concede 76 goals. But the one thing that I think needed to happen beyond the transfer window with the questions that have been asked about the defence was that Manchester United, well, one, needed to win today, but secondly, they couldn't concede goals. And there may be some people that lazily could say, oh, they were two spectacular goals. I mean, that last goal is a really bad one. It's a really bad one because they're on that far side.