Spurs fightback to a 'remarkable' draw with City | 'Arsenal have sent a message' | Very important day for Carrick

0:00Peter Drury:Well, hello everybody. It's the Gary Neville podcast at the end or towards the end of what has been a meaty Premier League weekend. There's been an awful lot happening, not the least of which occurred here at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. A most remarkable game of football in which Tottenham seemed frankly dead and buried 2-0 down at half time and rescued a point which has, Gary, all sorts of ramifications. Tottenham first? Why not? I mean

0:30Gary Neville:I thought they were done half time not just done in the game by the way I was like I know a Tottenham fan pretty well he said that he's been coming for 40 years as a season ticket holder and he's not been as disillusioned in that time it was eerie the atmosphere from minute one in the game was non-existent it's as if they switched off the Tottenham fans almost as if like they're completely and utterly they're turning up because it's what they do it's what football fans do but there was nothing there, nothing on the pitch at all, no energy, no energy in the crowd and such a stark difference from what you believe a Thomas Frank team is and at half time we were talking and I just thought this is not going to go on very long, this is a massive struggle and you feel then sad because you know sort of what's coming and I thought City in the first half, to be fair, were in second gear, I didn't think the City were playing brilliantly well, I thought at times they were a little bit complacent.

1:27Gary Neville:What we've just seen in that second half is a reflection of Tottenham's character, that Thomas Frank has got something out of them, simplifying the game. A back four that really should have been caused all sorts of problems, but weren't. They really stood up, Archer Gray and I think Paulinho, that right side of the defence in particular, who were out of position. I thought they were fantastic in that second half. Connor Gallagher in midfield I thought was very good. And then just putting a front two. Maybe we'll discuss front twos in this podcast, because we saw Pablo and Castellanos for West Ham last night.

1:58Gary Neville:We saw then De Lapp and João Pedro in the second half. And then obviously today we've seen Colomuani and Dominic Solanke. It's as if centre-backs can't deal with simple things. Playing the ball forward, getting it into their chest, putting balls into the box. It's returning. There's no doubt the game is swinging and we're going to probably start seeing more pairs emerge in these next 12 months. I can see it happening. the four games I've watched this weekend the fourth one that I've not mentioned is in League 2, Salford they also play with a pair of strikers and they're good too and they're a handful and I just love seeing it I absolutely do there was nothing worse than I think playing centre back when you had a pair of tough strikers the first pair of strikers that I ever played against in the A team when I was younger was Graham Sharp and Ian Marshall and they were playing for Oldham I think at the time and they were in the Oldham's A team or reserves or whatever it was and they remember beating me and Chris Casper up and always thinking, gee, that was hard work and our youth team coach killing us.

2:58Gary Neville:But you see Colin Mawani and Solanke in that second half just mauling Kusananov and causing gay problems. Last night, the same with the two pairs of centre-forwards. But what we've seen in this second half is the Tottenham fans at the end of the game clapping. And that's nice to see because I thought it was going to be a very dark second half, actually, and moody. And I thought that this stadium would be empty at 75 minutes so it's completely and utterly bizarre what you have to say is that you can't say it's something to build off for Thomas Frank obviously the European performances as well but he needed to start doing something here in the domestic games in the Premier League because it's been such poor form they only won two games I think here all season that's not changed today but they can maybe go in tonight they've got a lot of injuries which is a massive factor and they pick themselves up they've got Manchester United here next Saturday they have So, big game coming up next Saturday.

3:52Peter Drury:At Old Trafford.

3:53Gary Neville:Oh, it's Old Trafford, sorry. It's Old Trafford next Saturday. We haven't got that game, have we? No. So, I think, yeah, a bit of relief for Thomas Frank because I think he's a really good manager and I really like him. I really like what he did at Brentford. I thought his team's epitomised character, spirit, energy, fight, aggression, physicality, the total and complete opposite of what I felt here in that first half, but they've shown a bit of that in the second half, and maybe there is a formula. Solanke went off injured towards the end, so I might be speaking too soon, but maybe there is a formula of paying two up top and just being really aggressive and going for it and simplifying the game back and putting crosses in the box, getting Conor Gallagher and Basuma and Saar pressing onto people and just basically being quite physical, dropping the sort of passes from the back from Vicario into your own six-yard box.

4:44Gary Neville:I actually saw him pass the ball backwards at one point in the first half from the six yard but back to the byline which is just bizarre in the position that you're in so yeah a completely and utterly unexpected game today um and for manchester city nowhere near good enough nowhere near good enough in the first half as well when you look back they're in second gear and should have killed that game off i mean a pep guardiola team those fans over there in that far corner those manchester city fans have seen some of the best teams that you'll see. They know when it's not right and they know when things aren't quite there and they've not got that killer instinct.

5:19Gary Neville:They struggle when teams put them under pressure, put them under pressure with high pressing, put them under pressure on the ball, put them under pressure with regards to crosses and set pieces and balls going into the box and they don't stand up to it and they don't withstand that pressure. They haven't got the Diaz company Lesko, whatever it is, those centre backs that are going to be going dominant and it should have suited Kassanov and Gahey in the second half, Kola Mouane and Solanke, they should have really been able to deal with them, but they didn't do. The Gahey header wasn't great for the second goal.

5:54Gary Neville:Nico Gonzalez isn't great. He's slow getting to the ball and reacting on this side here and Conor Gallagher's in on him. Nico O 'Reilly gets caught up in that as well. So just second best and allowing teams to re-emerge in games, allowing teams to get encouragement and that's going to cause them a massive problem in respect of being on the shoulder of Arsenal because Arsenal can physically withstand pressure. They've gone to Leeds yesterday and they've done really well to win that game 4-0. But Leeds put you under pressure and I don't think the City team right now in midfield or at the defence, it's been the same all season.

6:29Gary Neville:They just haven't got that rock-solid spine that you think can go and win a title and this Manchester City team and this manager know how to win a title as good as any. but they're letting you down time and time again and I can see the sort of disappointment and frustration on Pep Guardiola's face so a good day in the end for Spurs but a lot of soul searching to do I think for City and for Pep Guardiola in respect of where they're currently at because they're not there and I really think he would have fancied in this last week or so since Manchester United got beat by Arsenal that come on 14 games left here 15 games left obviously before today 14 games left now half time he'll have been thinking this sends a message four points let's just let's just kick on here let's stay on the shoulder eight games to go and are they going to be there?

7:16Gary Neville:That's the question. Are they going to be there on the shoulder of Arsenal? That's a question that I'm not sure of the answer because at the moment they look well short City. Yeah.

7:25Peter Drury:We'll come back to Arsenal and Chelsea. I just want to ask you one more on Tottenham. You speak a lot about in the context of Manchester United in recent years DNA and being Manchester United and I was quite surprised with the Tottenham supporters given how darker place they had been in, how it only took one half and they were cheered up. You know, they were ready to walk out in 75 minutes and that didn't happen. All it seemed to take, from their perspective, was 45 minutes of a team they want to recognise. Do you see it that way?

7:56Gary Neville:Yeah, I mean, look, if you think of the Tottenham DNA, historic DNA, you always think of silky players, don't you, with the Maverick. You know, Madison's obviously not out there. Kulusevsky, they have got those types of players. the Thomas Frank DNA is very different than the Tottenham DNA in some ways Johans Postokoglu I felt suited the Tottenham DNA of playing total football irrespective of what's going on in a game and he won a trophy for them but had real difficulties in the league what I would say with Thomas Frank is he's going to have to be true to himself irrespective of the fact that I think when you're having such a bad time I think playing out from the back and trying to play football through a horrific run of results.

8:37Gary Neville:It's just not the way to go for any team. You build your confidence back up through simplicity. We saw it in Manchester United with Michael Carrico. He's gone back to a more simple system and putting square pegs in square holes. And I think in the second half, certainly having Paulino at right centre-back is not a square peg in a square hole, but it's something that he had to do. But what it did, it meant that ultimately they had a back four, they had four in front and they had two up top. So they had an out in terms of when they played the ball forward. and they just made the game a lot more simple with their system and their style of play.

9:09Gary Neville:And I think that unless you're an exceptional team, it's really difficult to play what I would call Pep Guardiola, Manchester City style football through the lines. You've got to be exceptional to do that. You really have. You've got to be some of the very best technical players out there and have amazing combinations because the other teams are so well prepared in respect to their defensive structures. If you're not, they'll be all over you and they'll counter-attack off the back of it. and we saw the first goal that Manchester City scored where Basuma gets caught in the centre of midfield is a perfect example of that.

9:39Gary Neville:Perfect example of where, you know, a player that's not quite there basically just gets rushed on. They jump onto him and all of a sudden they're off and Semenyo, Cherki are in those channels against Dragasin and against Paulina. So that didn't suit at all the back three and also the style of play. So it was just more simple in that second half for Spurs and they're torn between a little bit maybe the Tottenham DNA of football that we want to see. exciting and sort of really sort of good combinations and sort of really talented players but they haven't quite got that right now they haven't got madison and kuleshevsky and some of their best players out there so simplifying it and having two forwards that can run that are physical that can cause problems like kolomowani and tulanki and actually think xavi simons who i think struggled since he's come i actually thought he was really good i actually thought he was really good he kept going to be fair to him there have been moments in games where i've seen him drowned out almost in matches where he's passed him by.

10:34Gary Neville:I actually thought today he stood up. I thought Archie Gray stood up throughout the whole game. I thought that, to be fair to Simons, I thought he stood up as well. He always seemed to want it. And I think he could simplify his game a little bit more. I think when he gets it on that far side, in that channel, on that sort of spurs left, he's got that little bit of a jink, get into a position and just put those little balls in, all those little reverse passes, simplify your game. You don't have to do anything different than that. I always think if you come in off a wide area, he's not somebody who's going to go past players with blistering pace and sort of make Mane at Liverpool style runs through.

11:09Gary Neville:He's more of a jinker. He's more of a sort of a manipulator of the ball. So again, you've got to have an output and an end product and you've got to be predictable. Unpredictable to the player that you're playing against, but predictable to the players who are in your team so they know when to time their runs. And just sometimes you play those nice little passes in, those nice little crosses. And I thought Spurs played a really good second half. and in the end, a remarkable point for them really from where they were.

11:35Peter Drury:Which, not that Spurs fans like to see it this way, does do Arsenal a great favour. This time last week, we were at Arsenal who just lost to Manchester United and the storyline was becoming, Arsenal now, they've got a tricky week, a game in the Champions League, which they won well and then they've got to go to Leeds. And what if they lose at Leeds? And they went there and brushed it off, didn't they?

11:57Gary Neville:Yeah, I mean, we said the Champions League game was unimportant, I think, in the podcast last week because of the fact they're already through. But they had to go to Ellum Road and win. They couldn't allow a blip to finish on the City, by the way. That's one winning six games, by the way, for Manchester City. Just watching Pep Guardiola here do his interview. One winning six. You know, you're not talking here about sort of a blip. You're talking about a pattern of what their results are. They've only beaten Wolves in that time. So, I mean, he'll be going back to Manchester tonight. Well, no one knows how to turn these things around better than he does because he's one of the greatest managers that's ever lived.

12:35Gary Neville:But, you know, he won't have had many worse runs than that in his time. Anyway, going on to Arsenal, yeah, they had to go to Ellum Road and win. They had to go to Ellum Road and win. And what an emphatic victory it was.

12:50Gary Neville:A difficult place to play. a place that if they smell fear or if they smell anxiety they will be all over you like a rash however Arsenal have not done that they've gone there they've been professional they've done the job they've scored the goals they physically withstood what maybe would have come their way and it's a brilliant, brilliant victory for them I was looking very closely at that yesterday afternoon in terms of how it would go I was doing the Chelsea 5.30 game so I was sort of in and out watching a bit of Salford a bit of Arsenal on another screen I had Salford on here and Arsenal on there and sort of between me and Brett, the floor manager in the Chelsea interview room, we're sort of watching both matches and Arsenal got the right result.

13:32Gary Neville:And yeah, it was a very important result for them. Sends a message, maybe Manchester City, maybe that's just, maybe that's just got into Manchester City a little bit, but you wouldn't have thought so with the fact they were 2-0 up at half time. But that will have maybe when you're travelling down the day before and you think, oh, I wonder if Arsenal drop points again. and they don't. So yeah, a brilliant weekend for Arsenal. A brilliant day yesterday. They've done their own job, which is the most important and that sort of puts them back on track. Get back on the bike when you fall off it and you will fall off it on the way through to its Premier League title, but get back on it quickly and start going down that road and they have done.

14:07Gary Neville:So Arsenal can just be very happy with themselves this weekend, but then today to get that boost from their arch rivals, their local sort of rivals is something that they wouldn't have expected. At half time, I suspect there might have been any few Arsenal players. If I was back in the day watching that game, half-time I'd have switched that off thinking, oh, I'm not watching them go and win four or five. It'll just depress me and take away the happiness from our game. Yes, they. But at 2-1, you might have switched the telly back on again. One of those. And at the end of the game, those Arsenal players will be sat down there tonight, whatever they eat now on a Sunday.

14:36Gary Neville:I suspect it's not a roast dinner. Maybe, you never know. That they'll be thinking, yeah, a week's a long time in football, but we were beaten up and felt down a little bit and dejected after losing at home last week to United. But where we are now, they've recovered brilliantly well and fantastic for them.

14:54Peter Drury:And wouldn't you feel a bit flat if you're a Villa fan now? Because here was a window... They've actually had two windows of opportunity and they've lost home games to Everton and to 10-man Brentford. And genuinely, you know, logic says they could have six more points. They didn't. They played two football matches and lost them.

15:09Gary Neville:There'll be a number of teams thinking exactly the same all season that, you know, we should be five points more, we should be six points more. I actually think Villa are punching to be where they are. They're doing a brilliant job. Unai Emery and the players, they've got injuries right now as well. So, you know, they're punching, I think, Villa to be in that top three. I think if you look at their underlying stats as well, they don't quite stack up to where they are. So for me, look, if Villa are finishing the top five this season and get a Champions League space, I think it would be a brilliant post.

15:36Gary Neville:I do think they could get hunted down. I thought that for quite a bit, not just today. today I just think if the others get their act together with 14 games to go Villa but Unai Emery is their sort of what would be their beacon of hope because he knows how to navigate and pick points up and he's a shrewd wise manager so I like Villa I want them to do well I want I like the manager a lot but I think they're really punching hard to stay in the fight and it'll be interesting to see how they do in this next few weeks they just need to get their players back and and pick things up and a bit more consistency if they can in the game.

16:15Gary Neville:Losing John McGinn a couple of weeks ago in the game and then obviously I think they've lost... Did they lose someone in the game today? I thought someone said they lost someone earlier. Anyway, yeah, but for Villa, it's going to be a dogfight, I think.

16:27Peter Drury:And on the subject of being hunted down, it has been a really actually exciting as well as winning weekend for Manchester United and for Chelsea and for Liverpool who were very good against Newcastle last night. So that Champions League race now is an absolute belter.

16:43Gary Neville:Yeah, I think they all realise that I think probably United winning at City and at Arsenal has made maybe Chelsea, Liverpool think, hang on a minute, they could be quite dangerous. We'll take each in order. I mean, we watched the Manchester, we're just watching actually the Manchester United game. They're actually showing the scorpion kicks now. I forgot about that one. Was that the, what's he called? Oh gosh, he plays for Inter Milan now. I forgot his name. Mkhitaryan. that was the Mkhitaryan one at Old Traffton this is the Giroud one they're showing this is when I was at this game and I thought it was the best goal one of the best goals I've ever seen live in commentary, wow yeah that was the best one isn't it, the Giroud one but yeah United earlier on, I was sat there in the media lounge, 2-0 up and I was smirking and smiling you were in there as well, I was watching it with David Ornstein and all of a sudden Fulham just kept going didn't they, they wouldn't give in and then when they scored that second goal I was like, oh my goodness gracious and then if he just said you wanted one player to score a goal if anybody, any United fan, any United coach would have said, I want one player to score a goal, it would be Cesc because he's had a real difficult time since he's come to the club and Cunyat and Embermo just look like Manchester United players straight away the way in which they take the ball, they attack defenders and Ahmad's come back from the from AFCON looking really strong and Bruno's in great form So you've got that front four that looks like it's established with Dorgue, who I've not even mentioned.

18:08Gary Neville:So he looked like he was just playing a bit-part role, but that will be so big for Cesc O to score a winning goal at the Stratford end, to come back like they did. It very much Manchester United-like. Michael Carrico have had sort of not making it easy for himself. He'll be there tonight thinking, you know what I mean? Because this was another test, another type of test, where a team are sort of lower down the table than obviously Arsenal and City, the two best teams in the league. So a different type of test, different type of question. He'll have some work to go through with his players. But yeah, a very important day for Manchester United.

18:42Gary Neville:Very important day for Michael Carrick and a glorious sort of end to the game, which is typical of Manchester United historically, where they sort of make it very hard for themselves, but then go and score the late winner. And it was a good work down there. He let the ball roll across his body, Bruno Fernandes. Just again, putting it simply into a box. Sesko just gets it, rolls it and he's got a really good strike on him. That's one thing he does have. And a big three points. I think that would have been a devastating dropping of two points in terms of what you're talking about with Chelsea and Liverpool.

19:10Gary Neville:It's going to need to be pretty consistent now. I think the others are going to really ramp it up and United look like they're in a good place.

19:16Peter Drury:Did you see Liverpool last night?

19:17Gary Neville:I did. I got back about ten past eight. And at that point, Newcastle were doing really well in the game. I was enjoying my Saturday evening. And they score at the post, I think. Harvey Barnes hit the post, didn't he? And they were doing really well. Look, a real threat. They're scoring all of a sudden, but the response from Liverpool was excellent. The response from Liverpool was excellent. I've been saying it for quite a while. I mean, Eka TK's been fantastic. I've not been saying that for quite a while. But Virts has just got to get himself in that left channel as close to the penalty box as he possibly can because he really can slow his mind down in those final moments, Virts.

19:52Gary Neville:He's got the real composure, cold mind. I've said all since I think he drops far too deep. and there is an element of watching Bruno Fernandes now close to Embermo, watching Pablo close to Castellanos last night, watching these two, just get Verts close to Ekitiki, get them close together, get them near to each other and you'll be in business, you'll score goals because he's got a real sort of what would be quality in tight areas and he can find the pass and he can manipulate the ball and understand where he is, he knows where he is so it's a real unique quality to be able to do that and that's why Liverpool have paid the money for him but he looks like he's starting to purr a little bit now.

20:29Gary Neville:It was a great response from Liverpool in what's been a real difficult time for them. So, yeah, I think Chelsea, United, Liverpool, Villa right now.

20:43Peter Drury:What did you feel walking away from Chelsea last night about Chelsea over the course of that crazy 90 minutes?