World class Morgan Rogers downs Man Utd with dynamite double!

0:00Peter Drury:Well, hello, everybody. You do not need Mariah Carey or love, actually, because we offer you the Gary Neville podcast, which comes to you live this Christmas time from a buoyant Villa Park off the back of a wonderful win for Aston Villa in the context of the fact, Gary, that it was their 10th on the spin and that they hit Christmas three points off the top of the Premier League. What did you make of it?

0:23Morgan Rogers:What a run they're on and twin 10 on the run for any club at any time is really outstanding. They weren't at their best today in the game, but they're a solid group with a couple of excellent players. One very special player that we'll talk about, I'm sure, shortly. Yeah, today they weren't at it. I thought that Manchester United disturbed them in the first half, playing slightly differently with the system. I expected Villa to control midfield because they usually have Kamara in there, they had Inanna. then you always have Rodgers dipping in there, McGinn dipping in there, Telemann. So I was thinking they were going to have five in really narrow, like Unai Emery sometimes goes with, and that they would really outnumber Ugarte and Bruno Fernandes.

1:04Morgan Rogers:But the way in which Ruben Amrim set up, packed the midfield, and like I say, that just nullified Villa. It took them quite a bit to work the game. I never actually thought that they played well at any point in the match compared to how they ordinarily would play. But, but, when you've got a special player who's in form, who can score goals of the quality that he did, then you've always got a chance. I've just heard a little bit of Roy Keane and Paul Merson talking in the studio about how sometimes when basically you don't play well as a team and you don't function, which can happen, another team does well against you, that you just need your special players and your great players to stand up.

1:37Morgan Rogers:And that's what's happened today. But what a run for Villa. They find themselves third in the league at the start of the season. They were in disarray, it felt. You felt, well, is this the drop-off? Is this the end of Unai Emery? There were moments where you're thinking, where's this going? Question marks over Morgan Rodgers. Why are you playing so well for England and not playing for us? And all of a sudden, it's just turned around. It's turned around sensationally for them and they go into Christmas Day in a fantastic position. Only a point off Manchester City, three off Arsenal and looking very, very promising.

2:07Morgan Rogers:Seven points ahead of Chelsea in fourth. And that's a big gap. No, it's a long way to go, but Villa looking like they're in a great position to achieve Champions League football.

2:18Peter Drury:Well, let's talk about Morgan Rodgers then because this is the sort of conversation people love to have in the pub over Christmas. The top English players in the Premier League, and I wrote myself down a little list, everybody knows them all. Rodgers, Foden, Eze, Palmer, Dewsbury Hall, Gerard Bowen perhaps, Declan Rice plays a different, maybe bigger position. But where in the great scheme of all that are you putting Morgan Rodgers?

2:43Morgan Rogers:Yeah, look, you said they're Premier League, but it's worth mentioning Bellingham and Kane. Bellingham as well, of course. Obviously, Bellingham fits into that sort of position. It's a real conundrum for Thomas Tuchel as the sort of months get nearer to the World Cup. Look, Rodgers is good in a lot of areas. One, I think he can play wide, he can play central, he can receive the ball on the back foot. He's got good awareness, he can go past someone with the ball. Very few players can beat players in central areas of the pitch and receive it on the back foot. so for me he's a very special player but so is Foden, so is Bellingham so is Palmer, all of them, Eze they're all sensational, they really are, they're very very top of the game there would be a time whereby you would struggle as an England team squad to produce one of those players, maximum two, we've got four or five there, that I think would get into a lot of first teams globally from a point of view of international teams, they really are sensational players and they're admired by international teams.

3:45Morgan Rogers:They're admired by international players because of their technical ability, their tactical understanding. And what we've seen here today from Rodgers is, I mean, I actually didn't say it,

3:55Gary Neville:but you're thinking at one point in the first half, 40 minutes in, we haven't seen him at all. He's just sort of stood out there on that left wing,

4:03Morgan Rogers:been invisible because, to be fair, United were dominating the ball. Villa didn't get the ball through midfield as they thought they would do and sort of feed him. And there was nothing happening. but that's I think where you really think about the good players and the top players because they can get it and they can basically change a game in an instance and I think we've used the tag game changer, difference maker that's what he's been today out here and I've got a lot of time for those players I played with a lot of those players during my football career and you're so grateful for them if you're Matty Cash who's a right back today and you've made that mistake just before half time you're going in at the end of that game and you're giving him one hell of a massive hug, trust me, and saying thank you, and you're really holding on to him because you know full well, you know, he saved you a miserable night.

4:50Morgan Rogers:He saved you a miserable night, and that happened to me quite a bit where you make a mistake or you've conceded a couple of goals as a defensive unit, but your top players that you absolutely know can pull something out of the hat do so. And Morgan Rodgers has done that today, I think, in the first half and in the second half, two very special moments. The second goal was good because he basically was on the move. he's imagined that something's going to drop to him. So that ball gets played in by Tielemans. Watkins makes a good run across the near post and he just disrupts Aiden Heaven. And then it's about who's alive, who's alert.

5:21Morgan Rogers:And I've got a bit of sympathy for Yoro on that one, the second one, because I think that's one whereby he was alert, but Rodgers just gets there just a touch earlier than him. And it's a difficult one. I think that Dallow should have done better to stop the initial cross with Tielemans. So I've got a bit of sympathy with Yoro, but Rodgers is on the move. He's hunting in positions and in spaces where he thinks something might happen, something could come alive for him, and then the finish, you just notice it. I mean, we're right behind that one. It's absolutely perfect. The first goal, I've got less sympathy for Lenny Jorreau because I actually thought it as the ball went over his head, and it was a sort of difficult one for him to control, and it runs towards the touchline.

5:58Morgan Rogers:And I'm thinking, as Rodgers has turned his back and he's running towards the touchline, Jorreau, get after him like that. I'm like, sprint, harass him, hurry him. And the one thing, if you're Morgan Rodgers, Peter, and I'm Lenny Yoroh, you have to stand on the point of his right foot where you know he can't go in there across you. So you can't just say, you know, show him down the line and let him go across you and go in there. So you have to show him so you're there, knowing he can't go back on his right foot because that's what he wants to do. But also where you're not showing him enough whereby he basically goes in that space there.

6:29Morgan Rogers:So you're always threatening his right foot,

6:31Gary Neville:thinking, go on, go that way. And you're guiding him down the line. And Lenny Yoroh didn't do that. He didn't do that. It was a big mistake that in the game, I think, for him. And look, he's a young defender. He'll pick it up. But yeah, I was surprised.

6:44Morgan Rogers:I think if you're doing your homework before the match and you're a right-sided centre-back that's going to go out there and end up in the right-back position, which he did there the other night against Semenya for Bournemouth, he's played that role twice now, Lenny Oro, where he's had to go out there almost as a right-back. You've then got to think about before the game, what's my picture of the match?

7:02Gary Neville:What's the match look like? And I used to think, who am I playing against? and I remember getting done by David Juno at Newcastle. He could go both ways, Juno.

7:11Morgan Rogers:He had a left and a right foot and I was cutting off his left foot thinking he's going to go that way and he went back on his right and he swung it into the far corner. You think, ah, I've got done. And so it happens. It happens to everybody but I just thought Jorl could have made it a lot harder for Morgan Rodgers and he's predictably going to go on his right foot. He's not two-footed in the sense that he's going to go on his left and sort of swing one in too much. So, yeah, I thought it was a brilliant game for Rodgers. In a performance that wasn't them anywhere near their best, but they put themselves into a great position in the league

7:45Gary Neville:and 10 wins on the trot is fantastic for Unai Emery. Look, their manager is top class. The difference we're talking about, and the reason that Villa are up there, the reason that Villa are up there, and the reason that Arteta's up there is he's built a squad over five years, and then you've got the two best managers in the league, in Pep Guardiola and Unai Emery, and managers make a massive difference. and Unai Emery is a difference maker. We'll talk about the difference maker of Morgan Rodgers, but their manager is at a different level.

8:10Peter Drury:From Manchester United's point of view, a lot of the game, you were actually with them and enjoying what they were doing and the numbers certainly stacked up in their favour before the goals began to be scored. And they were playing today without the guys who've just gone to Africa. Three significant first-team players and Casemiro suspended. He'll be back for Boxing Day. and then without Bruno Fernandes for the whole of the second half, which makes them look thin, doesn't it? This is a concern for the next three weeks, month or so.

8:43Gary Neville:Yeah, Manchester United have just picked up one point out of six in two games, but I'm actually quite energised by what I've seen and I think that goes to show I do feel performance really matters in football and I think the way in which you play really matters. And I said I could come off that game against Bournemouth on Monday where there were some really bad goals conceded, but I can live with watching that all day long

9:09Morgan Rogers:where there's a real sort of purpose going forward and there's a real threat and there's a real sort of, if you like, entertainment and style to the game.

9:17Gary Neville:Similarly here today, I thought they were very good, Manchester United. I thought it was a really good performance, but the details of the two goals have cost them. Now that's going to continue to happen and whilst they don't have the likes of Maguire and De Ligt and they don't have players, to be fair, that would make them a lot stronger. I don't think they're anywhere good enough to get into that top three, but what I have seen in these last two games are a couple of things. One, the manager has changed. Quite obviously, the system that he said he would never change, the five or the three, the two in midfield, the two wing-backs and the three up front, the one up top and then the two narrow forwards, that has been thrown out of the window in the last two matches.

9:53Gary Neville:We've seen that change. That's a good thing. He's still playing principally with some of the same sort of what would be patterns that Man City United have played with under him, but very differently today. He had Bruno Fernandes and Mason Mount in front of Agate and he pushed Dalo on further on that side and he had Kunja and Sesko. The other night was very different, again, with Ahmad playing higher up and Jorou out as a right-back and it looked like a 4-4-2 at the end. So I'm happy that the manager is adapting to what's happening out there because of what's happening with AFCON, but also I think there's just an element of, I don't think he could carry on as we saw against West Ham and Everton at home more of that West Ham and Everton is going to find the manager in a lot of trouble more of what we've seen between Bournemouth and Villa is going to find the manager in a job and to be fair allowed to build something because you can build off what you've seen here today I thought the first half they were by far the better team I thought they really were good and actually surprisingly I thought they were actually with Martinez in midfield in the second half I actually thought they were the equal of Villa as a minimum and Kun you should score Couldn't you score with that?

10:54Gary Neville:That should be 2-2 that game. That should not be a game that Manchester United lose. Sesko has a great chance in the first half, which again, I think he should score. So I think that if you're here today, if you're hammering him at the end of the game doing his interview, we've not seen it yet, I think he'll be really disappointed. But I think privately he'll think, right, OK, I can build off what I've seen in the last week. I think they can. I've been one of the biggest critics when I've seen them play against Everton and West Ham. I think that's a load of rubbish, that. That is stale, boring, what I call nonsense football, leaving three at the back against one when you're 10 men against 10 men.

11:27Gary Neville:However, I think what they've done in these last five days, I think, well, six days, I think I can more than live with. I think they've been good performances. What they have to do now is get the defenders back. They obviously have to get Ahmad and Mbamo back from AFCON, and that's going to be a good few weeks. Losing Bruno Fernandes, that was just a shock, wasn't it, to all of us, because he just plays all the time. He's ever-present. So it is going to be hard for them in this next few weeks because of what's happening and the circumstances of their two best centre-backs, their best central midfield player, and maybe out for a few weeks.

12:02Gary Neville:It looked like he'd done his hamstring. And two of their best forwards, Embermo and Amadou. So that's going to be challenging for them. But if they can get them back in January, Manchester United can still finish in the top five. And I will say that, to be fair, because they've turned down or missed three or four opportunities in the last three weeks to get into that top five. But I do think if they can get those players back and they can stay fit, they can do something. But I think if Ruben Amrim got to approach it with the way in which he has in his last five or six days, that system has been tweaked, more than tweaked in the last five or six days.

12:33Gary Neville:And I think with Mount, Kunja, Fernandes, Sesko and Bermot, Ahmad, out there on the pitch, probably not all of them, but probably four or five of them, Manchester United will cause a lot of teams a lot of problems.

12:46Peter Drury:And until they get back, I noted during the second half how often you were complimentary about Lissandro Martinez playing in midfield. I mean, didn't he play well? And can he not play a really important role, at least for the next month?

13:00Gary Neville:Yeah, half time. Maybe I was thrown by the fact that when Bruno Fernandes initially went down with his hamstring, or went down, he pulled up with his hamstring just here, he sent Xerxes out, didn't he? The manager to warm up. And I thought, yeah, I think that's right. Zerzi can drop in. And I liked the idea of having Mason Mount and Zerzi behind Sesko and Zerzi and Sesko being potential threats from crosses, you're running into the box. And maybe Mount just dropping back a little bit and playing deeper alongside Ugarte. When I saw that Martinez came on, I thought, how are United going to get a goal?

13:38Gary Neville:How are they going to really pose a threat? Now, they didn't really pose a threat other than that one chance that Kunio had, but it was a massive chance, by the way. I would have liked to have seen, I think, the two Mountain Zerkesi off Cesc go with Cunha floating in and around them. He didn't go for it, but you're right. I think that Martinez, when he came on in that holding position, Villa didn't put any real pressure on him, but I thought he was good on the ball. I thought he was tidy. He did a good job in there. Maybe that's something that's going to have to happen. Maybe Casemiro will be back as well.

14:11Gary Neville:So I don't think we'll see him probably in there too much, but it's potentially something that Amram could do in an emergency if it happens over the Christmas period. But yeah, it's been a frustrating last few weeks for United. I think that the big chance against Everton missed it. Big chance against West Ham to go fifth missed it. Today was a chance to go fifth again, but I don't think it was a big chance miss because it was Villa away on a great run above them. I don't think anyone was expecting United to win here today. I think that feeling was a point would be a great result and I think they played quite well in the game and should have got a point out of it.

14:44Peter Drury:So, Gary, now with Arsenal and Manchester City having won yesterday, we've got Arsenal 39, City 37, Villa 36, and then a seven-point gap. Of the chasing pack, Liverpool were the only winners, right down to the next, I think, of Brentford in 12th, surprisingly. There were a few draws in there. So are you now drawing a line beneath those three?

15:07Gary Neville:Yeah, I'm drawing a line beneath, to be fair, the top two. I think Villa are there and they should be respected, but they're not going to win the league. I'd be amazed. A lot would have to go wrong for Arsenal and City, for Aston Villa to win the league. I look at the league, it's bizarre. I mean, not bizarre in the top two, but just bizarre beneath it in terms of what's happening. You're not sure what's going to happen each week. I thought the game I did last night, Liverpool-Tottenham, was a really strange game. I mean obviously it was impacted enormously by ill discipline it probably in some ways helped Tottenham but it galvanised the crowd a little bit against the referee but I came away from that game last night, I mean the referee I don't think was amazing but I don't think he had a bad game with regards to the big decision, I didn't come off thinking the referees impacted that game as much as the actual ill discipline of Tottenham's players Simons' challenge was poor one and Romero means that captain chaos.

16:05Gary Neville:The minute you give that goal away, just for the next half an hour, it was just a walking time bomb around the pitch. But like you say, City are dangerous. They've got Haaland and they've got Pep Guardiola, who are someone very special on the pitch and someone very special, obviously, on the bench. And that is the biggest threat to Arsenal, other than them getting injuries to, say, Declan Rice or a couple of other players. but Arsenal I think I wouldn't be too worried about the fact that they've scraped through these last couple of games I think that happens they weren't great at Everton last night but were they ever going to be amazing there I mean I thought they could have gone 2-0 up as well and made it a lot more comfortable for themselves I think Arsenal are in a good position what's going to be really interesting is how they handle it once they get to March, April, May that's when it's going to be really interesting but I think coming out of the new year I feel like going into February, March Arsenal will extend their lead is my honest view.

17:02Gary Neville:I think they'll get to five, six points again. I feel it's their year. I feel that they were always going to get maybe closed down a little bit by City. And I might be completely and utterly embarrassed by the fact that Pep Guardiola and Haaland and co could go and win the league again. Because I know City fans are getting quite confident. I speak to a few of them and they're thinking it's their year. They're thinking, here we go, we're close to them. They're going to bottle it come March, April, May. But I'm not sure this Arsenal team will bottle it this time.

17:30Peter Drury:the other team I wanted to pick out I don't know why really I think maybe because you've spoken to me about them a bit recently and you've watched them a bit recently is Leeds who maybe had the standout result of the weekend I mean nobody beats Palace 4-1 and they've given them a right good bruising and they're creating a gap ahead of that bottom three

17:49Gary Neville:yeah I did those games going into that week it was City they had didn't they on the Saturday and then they had Chelsea and then they had Liverpool. And that was the week where you were thinking the manager, the coach, could be under real pressure and potentially lose his job. And they could be cut adrift and they could be really well down there. I mean, what a turnaround. The change of system, which I think happened in the last 25 minutes against City. They then played it against Chelsea, which was a big night. It was almost like a turnaround game for the club, the entire club. and then obviously against Liverpool that was a memorable sort of game in respect of how it sort of flowed back and forward and the resilience to stay in the match and the late goals I think Leeds have got a real chance I had Burnley Wolves and Leeds to go down at the start of the season I think I'll be right with Burnley and Wolves I'm not so sure I'm going to be right with Leeds because they've got something that I think again this is dependent upon them keeping two or three players I think Ampadu is important for them and I think that Calvert-Lewin is important as well the two wing backs are important Bogle and Goodmanson I think they're really sort of energised down that sort of you can't just find wing backs left right and centre to do the job that those two do so I think for me Leeds have got a real hope their manager I think now has gained strength through coming out of it and they're starting to pick up their performances and make Ellen Road a place that you would expect it to be when they're in the Premier League which is somewhere where teams don't want to go to because they know they're going to have a rough ride and they're making it that way.

19:29Peter Drury:And it's really interesting down there because a lot of people are saying West Ham will be alright because Nuno won't go down and Forrest will be alright because Daishi doesn't go down. You know, and actually Monday Night Football tomorrow is a really important game. Fulham and Forrest are either side of Leeds in that sort of bottom 5, 6, 7, whatever it is. So that narrative is going to be a really interesting one to follow.

19:51Gary Neville:I think that West Ham, Fulham, Forrest, I think they'll be looking at Leeds and they should be looking at Leeds and thinking that's making me feel a little bit uncomfortable I think they would have looked at Leeds three or four weeks ago like I was Burnley and Wolves they've been looking at and thinking they're just sort of if you like they're tanking and they'll be looking at Leeds and thinking well they'll go with them and we should be able to be okay but I think they'll be looking at Leeds and the levels of performance what they're doing their results picking up points against Chelsea Crystal Palace nearly against Manchester City and Liverpool or did against Liverpool but nearly against Manchester City as well and thinking oh this is a bit uncomfortable this is a bit awkward this is not what we expected so they need to really shape up those other clubs because if they think they can't go down I mean none of them will be thinking that the fans won't be thinking that I mean there's no fans in the football league that can be conned they know what their team looks like they're not going to feel sort of if you're like relaxed at all if you're in those sort of seats at sort of the London Stadium or at the City Ground or at Craven Cottage they're going to feel a little bit sort of disrupted as they go into their Christmas dinner.