'You hardly watch Liverpool!' | Carra and Nev debate over who is better placed for next season

0:00Peter Drury:Welcome everybody, it is the Gary Neville, brackets Jamie Carragher podcast from Old Trafford this evening off the back of a pretty dramatic game. There have been a few down the years between Manchester United and Liverpool. United have won it 3-2. Gary, what's your takeaway?

0:17Gary Neville:Important to win. I think that would have been an awful feeling at the end of the game, obviously, the way in which the first half went. very rarely do you see in any Manchester United Liverpool game a Manchester United team look so comfortable, I can count on one hand the amount of times in my whole career, my whole life that I've seen Manchester United look like they are so dominant and I actually felt before the game Peter when the teams were announced I thought really expectant got a big chance here today, we've actually got a better team than they have out at this moment in time obviously they've got some injuries so I just felt they didn't have the firepower, didn't have a centre forward we had all our best four players in attack on the pitch but then I mean the madness of that second half where you know just mistakes really poor errors and then I think when you make a mistake in a football match obviously then you can basically start to unravel and that's what Manchester United did for 20 minutes they just lost their discipline they were all over the place and Liverpool got back into it and you've got to give them credit for that but then in the end I think just Manchester United deserved it overall I think the third goal obviously that they got was a massive goal for Cobby Mania, but also I think just for Michael Carrick to get over the line in this game because it would have been, you know, Manchester United have got a record going back to 1984, which he showed us, where they've never lost a match having been up at half time and he wouldn't have wanted to lose that record today.

1:38Peter Drury:Jamie, you brushed me aside at the start of the game when I suggested that Liverpool had a problem with personnel not playing, with the stars not involved. Are you able to use that as some sort of protection against the disappointment you're clearly feeling? Yeah, slightly. I think when the team sheets do come out and more about the goalkeeper Liverpool had, really more than anything, that you think you never accept a loss, but you're going into the game thinking it's going to be tough here. You know, where Old Trafford, Manchester United are playing well, Liverpool aren't playing well on the road, and when you look at the actual team and what Liverpool have got on the bench, it's going to be difficult to get something from the game.

2:13So, listen, I feel a lot better in that defeat that way than what I feared what it could be at half-time, whether it was 3 or 4-0, really. And as Gary said, the second half just unravels. But the worry for me was what we saw first half. And I'm not using the excuse of injuries. The reason being is I feel like I've seen that first half so often this season in games where I don't think any football supporter or any player ever wants their team to be described as weak. and when I played we were criticised on the flip side for that and say we probably lacked a little bit of class or a little bit of creativity I'd much rather not win that way than not win that way and there's nothing better than coming up against those type of teams when we play in games you think they like to keep the ball they don't really do not but my god you can hurt them on the counter attack and that's what Liverpool are this season and that's the big worry for supporters and I know people outside Liverpool say how can they be questioning a manager who won the league last year I think it's just a feeling that the more Arne Slott's got his fingerprints on the team the more seeing his team and what we've seen this season we don't really like and it's not again, it's not Liverpool supporters thinking we're definitely going to win the league but it's putting up a fight in games a little bit more now you can say that happened in the second half but sometimes a goal can change a game and it happens, Man United a bit all over the place but it's more the performances and I keep going back to that what we're seeing.

3:42You can lose at Man United. The best Liverpool teams lose at Man United. You know, we haven't got a great record here. So to lose 3-2 at the team Liverpool had is not the end of the world. But it's what you saw first half is worrying.

3:54Gary Neville:It's interesting. Towards the end of last season, I was poking a little bit, I think it was actually on the podcast, Cara, around Liverpool's recruitment department, rightly so, been lauded for a number of years. And I said, how can they be lauded if they've let the contracts of Trent Alexander-Arnold, Mo Salah and Van Dijk run down to nothing and obviously Diaz with a year to go and I wasn't to be fair with any surety saying that it's at that moment in time that they'd sort of messed up or anything because they won the league last season but I think there will be question marks now but it's the first time I've watched Liverpool this season where I've actually thought looking at the bench and looking on the pitch there's not much there and obviously In fairness Gary that's not really Liverpool's bench No and look we have to mention obviously the fact that Ekotike, Izak, Salah, yeah, and Salah are not playing.

4:46Gary Neville:That is them three massive players. But just generally, just throughout the actual team and sort of like the backup at centre-half, the backup at full-backs, the midfield all of a sudden looks a little bit slower and you're just thinking to yourself, you know, it's a glass-half-empty, glass-half-full conversation and to be fair, you can have that conversation at any point after a defeat. But it was the first time I looked at the midfields team and thought, it does look quite shallow, that squad. And then they're obviously going to lose Mo Salah in the summer. And obviously, you know, they're going to have to obviously do a little bit of a rebuild.

5:15Gary Neville:But yeah, I just think the Liverpool fans may be watching that game today. And I haven't sensed that I haven't been able to buy into the desperation that they've had in this sort of exacerbation in the last two or three months about the manager, about the football. But for the first time today in that first half, I thought, that does look vulnerable. And the squad and the bench looks weak. and I know they've got three players out but it all of a sudden didn't look like a team that was anywhere near the title from a team that actually won the title so yeah just a comment really that there's obviously a bit of a job to do there in terms of obviously getting the recruitment right again in the summer But that's what I'm saying you can look at things glass, what is it, half empty or glass half full I mean you were talking about United being a year away from the title I saw this morning when I woke up I mean that is a glass half full Wow No I didn't say that No no you didn't It was on the overlap In a year or two you could win the title I said in the next couple of years, the title could be up for grabs.

6:09Now, that is a glass half full.

6:11Gary Neville:Slam on. Hang on. If the next couple of years, the title could be up for grabs, I'm really relaxed. You haven't even got a manager. In the next couple of years, Peter, the title could be up for grabs. And we know why. If City were to obviously be found guilty of some of their charges and they were to be deducted points or if Pep was to leave. No, Liverpool aren't quite right. Chelsea aren't quite right. Tottenham aren't quite right. Newcastle aren't quite right. so my point is Manchester United if they get it right in the recruitment and they've not done it but what about the other five teams just mentioned getting it right but at the moment Manchester United are ahead of those teams you're what they're ahead of those teams no deadly serious they're ahead of those teams are you getting no I'm being serious now are you getting fooled by the fact that you've had no European football you've got nowhere in cup competition you're not getting fooled by this idea no I'm not I'm not and today to be fair I think Michael Carrick will come off that pitch today thinking to himself that does really highlight the problems we've got in central midfield at centre-back so I don't think that at all but whoever gets the best three it's been like this for a few years whoever gets the best three or four players in in the next sort of window and United are in the Champions League now which gives them a problem of more fixtures but it gives them an attraction of actually being able to attract more players and by the way this is a big club that will win the league again in your lifetime my friend you will watch that and I'll enjoy it as I I've got a long way to go but just generally you know and look I'm not getting carried away after today because I thought it was a really poor second half from Manchester United for half an hour.

7:34Gary Neville:They lost their discipline, they made mistakes, they lost their concentration, they didn't deal with one-on-one situations very well, they actually started to give free kicks away. So it was a real difficult second half to watch for half an hour. But I'm just saying that generally, when I looked at Liverpool's team in the first half, it's the first time, I have been quite positive about Liverpool and to be fair about Arna Slott staying, I still think that should happen. And I've not seen this, what would be this drab football that Liverpool fans describe to me, but they watch the team every single week and he watches his team every single week.

8:04Gary Neville:But today in the first half, I thought, actually, that was a little bit desperate, that performance. Manchester United were very good, but it was a desperate performance in the first half.

8:14Peter Drury:I mean, big picture. Someone said to me this morning, it feels like the first game of next season, if you know what I mean, given that they will both be in the top five. Liverpool, I'm sure, will pick up the points they need to do. and there's, I suppose, this everlasting conversation, Manchester United against Liverpool, who's better placed and the fact that Manchester United have 20-odd points more than they had this time last year and Liverpool have 20-odd points fewer and there's been this great switch. And even the conversation around, you know, a combined 11, who would get in whose team and so on.

8:47Peter Drury:And I just wonder whether...

8:48Gary Neville:I don't know how much money each club, both these clubs, have got for the summer. I couldn't tell you how much Liverpool have got and I couldn't tell you how much Manchester United have got to go and spend. that's the interesting thing they probably need another couple 150-200 million each I would imagine

9:01Peter Drury:and all your joshing aside I just wonder who if it was the first day of next season who's better placed I still think Liverpool are a better place and the reason I would say is I think that's probably Manchester United's best team out there today Liverpool are probably I would say three or four short there they have got players who have won before in terms of you're talking about the biggest trophies I don't think either of the team will be in terms of the title next season in for Liverpool I still think it will be still would be Arsenal-Manchester the City but Liverpool have got to sign a replacement for Mo Salah they've got to buy a central midfield player McAllister's in there and for me they have to find a right back now they've got another they've got a young centre back who they've brought in January so the situation they have a centre back all season is not there because Leone and Jacquet they're your two centre backs they're back for next season so they've got to and then you're thinking okay the players they've signed this summer will be better placed next summer but you know what they need a central midfield player I've just said that.

9:57What did you say? I've just said they need a centre-mobile player. They need a left-back. Well, they're bringing Simicast back from Roma. Right, OK. They've got Kerkers there. OK. If you want to ask any more questions, I've got the answers for you because you are Liverpool. I watch Liverpool a lot. I think they need a left-back. OK, well, they've got Kerkers. They're not going to get a new left-back. They've just spent £30-40 million on it. But the point I'm trying to make, I still think Liverpool are a better place right now for the reasons I've just mentioned. Manchester United, for me, and it's not a Manchester and Liverpool think there's a false economy at the moment Manchester United haven't played any European football they went out in the first round of both cup competitions now that can fool you I don't think Manchester United will finish third this season I don't for one minute believe Manchester United is the third best team in the Premier League now who are?

10:41well I think Liverpool Liverpool would be if Manchester United would have been in Europe this season Manchester United have beaten them twice no I know but if they were in Europe this season and you'd have gone decent in cup competitions like what normally happens you'd have had more injuries you wouldn't have been able to see what you're seeing right now. Now, do you believe that Manchester United are really close or almost their next challengers?

11:00Gary Neville:I think Manchester United at the moment, to be fair, are the equal of Liverpool when I see the best teams on the pitch. Are the equal of them at the moment? I do. I think they are at the moment. I think they're the equal of Liverpool. Well, they beat them twice a season and they're in third. I get the argument around the cup competitions and the extra fixtures and it's valid. But I don't think Liverpool this season have proven that they are better than Manchester United. I don't think they have. They've lost 19 football matches. I totally agree with you. And Liverpool have been awful, awful this season.

11:26We're talking about questioning the manager's job. As you said, they lost 19 games. If they'd have won this game today in the last 20 minutes, they'd be level on points with Man Utd. They don't play European football. It's not a dig at United. It's just a fact that next season will be completely different whether Carrick's in charge, whoever's in charge. The landscape will be completely different from Manchester United playing European football, playing three games a week. They haven't had that all season.

11:48Gary Neville:I agree with you, but that's where the three or four or five players that they had this summer are critical. they've got to make sure they recruit well well that's the same argument for everybody else but I think Liverpool right now are probably in a better position in terms of the squad if everybody's fully fit and they've had players who've been there before Liverpool are the only team that can lose twice against Manchester United be behind them in the league by six points but still be better than Manchester United it's unbelievable isn't it you know what I mean we're still not better than them it's like

12:13Peter Drury:let me ask you in broad terms about them both going into this game everybody was saying this is big for the two bosses so where are they at off the back of what we've just seen?

12:26Gary Neville:I think Michael Carrick will be very happy tonight but I think he'll be really disappointed deep down knowing how he thinks and he'll have that good mentality that he's not going to win that game 3-4-0. I genuinely believe that the way in which the teams were set up before the game and the way in which they've started the first half I thought with 20 minutes to go or 15 minutes to go in the first half they should have gone and killed that game and put Liverpool to sleep because generally Liverpool were nowhere near it in this football match. They had some shots from around 22, 23 yards at the edge of the box, which were a little bit dangerous because obviously Liverpool had like four players in there versus United's two at times when United didn't quite get the two centre forwards back to connect.

13:01Gary Neville:But I think he'll be a little bit disappointed that basically he's won the game and that'll be the most important thing. But I don't think he will be fooled, picking up on Cara's point on a serious note, I don't think he will be fooled by the fact of some of what he saw in that second half. He'll know he'll need to make sure that he rebuilds that midfield and that defence. Because if you're going to play 4-4-2, which I am massively in favour of Manchester United doing, if they can do it, you have to have two very special players in there and you have to have back players, centre-backs, who can play one-on-one and full-backs who, to be fair, can get back quickly and make sure.

13:34Gary Neville:So you're asking a lot. So how many players do that they need then? Pardon? How many players do that they need? I think Manchester United need a left-back for next season because Luke Shaw, to be fair, has played every game this season and I think he may struggle. They need a centre-back, 100%, and they need two midfield players. They're the four priorities. right now. They need a left back, a centre back and they need two central midfield players. They're the players I would add to this squad. Now, look, if you could then maybe trade Mount for someone else who maybe can play in and out and be a bit more flexible across that midfield and forward line, I'd say, yeah, let's go for a fifth.

14:06Gary Neville:But if you can't, I would say they're the four. Two midfield players, a left back and a centre back and they've got to be top notch, those four players. That's the real priority right now.

14:17Peter Drury:Okay. I've been told to keep this quite short because you guys are needed in the studio so

14:21Gary Neville:oh this is good fun you don't keep it short when Liverpool win 7-0 Peter you know what I mean it goes on for about four days the podcast you know what I mean

14:29Peter Drury:I work to instructions Gary I'm not a renegade like you so I just think we ought to tee up Monday Night Football in the context of what we saw from Arsenal last night what did we see from Arsenal last night? they were fantastic I think it's the best they've looked I think I was going back through the fixtures actually I think probably since they played Spurs away and they won 4-1 they looked really good I think they were helped a little bit by Fulham I think there was a virus going through the camp but yet they looked energetic I mean tomorrow on the show we'll obviously have a good look we've got Thierry Henry on the show so we'll have a real good look at Arsenal but the goals obviously was a big help in terms of goals scored goal difference but just the way they looked that energy didn't look fatigued didn't look tired or nervous but again who knows if that was down to how poor Fulham were in the first half we'll see that in these coming weeks but it's certainly put a little bit now on Manchester City they've got a tough game going to Everton it won't be easy, you'd expect them to win but it's not just about winning now it's even about getting goals as well so I'm sure that's going to come into the equation between now and the end of the season

15:34Gary Neville:Do you think they'll win the second leg of the Champions League game, Cara? Yeah, I think they'll get through I think they're a better team than Lettico Madrid I don't think Madrid are that good, if I'm being totally honest I think even in the first leg there was a 20 minute spell in the second half where I decided that it looked like Arsenal for me were in big control of the game, I think the big thing Arsenal have done in the last couple of games that I'm going to look at tomorrow is the deployment of Rice going a little bit deeper, I think that's had a big impact and I thought he played well midweek in Europe away from home, showed real authority I thought he was excellent in the first half against Fulham as well, I've been worried about the midfield, I think we've highlighted that a lot on Monday Night Football of Zubomendi and Rice and how they're finding it tough.

16:15And there's just been a little change there in position in Madrid and personnel against Fulham with the young lad coming in, Mars Lewis-Skelly. So maybe something we'll analyse.

16:24Gary Neville:The confidence from yesterday, obviously Fulham didn't play well, but I think to go to Madrid and play as well as they did and do what they did, that would have given them, I think, big confidence to come back because there was an element of you thinking them going there, thinking they could get... I wouldn't say they were going to get done over, but Simeone can... almost like suffocate you make it horrible for you and sort of go and get a 2-0 win you'll get a goal in the first half be horrible and then get an horrible late there's an element of thinking they were going to get played a little bit or they were going to be a little bit immature there you know that was my fear going into that game would they be immature in that stadium and they weren't they really stood up in that stadium and then Saka coming back as well obviously it was a massive thing so yeah I think that takes them into a good place

17:06Peter Drury:Can I just ask you very quickly because I'm fascinated by this when do players start in a situation like this start thinking really about goal difference I remember the Brendan Rodgers team wasn't there in that game at Crystal Palace when they were 3-0 up and all that and there was the accusation they went chasing the goals I don't know if it's true or not Liverpool had to because of the situation it wasn't what that meant Liverpool doing that it meant I think it was something to do Man City's next game would make them have to win rather than draw so they did have to go for the goals to be honest in that situation but what I would say is it was interesting what Mikel Arteta did at half time because that was looking at half time like it could be a 5 or 6 nil job and if that would have been the case I'm not sure City would have ever been able to get that back they'd have had to almost hope Arsenal draw a game to win the league and he took Saka off thinking about midweek and listen he's just come back from injury they can't afford him to be injured but it was just interesting because I think Man City if you'd have said to them at half time this game's going to finish 3 nil they'd have been absolutely over the moon because as I said in that first half it looked like it could be 5 or 6 and I think that would have been a mighty sort of big blow for City and something I don't think they've been able to get by That's why I asked the question Gary because I think that's a couple of Monday nights time and there's bound to be a narrative around that about Arsenal hitting them for 9 you know or whatever which is disrespectful to Burnley and I apologise

18:30Gary Neville:I was watching the game last night and I was a little bit disappointed is the wrong word but But Mikel Arteta, maybe at the end of the game, he'll be happy with the win. Of course he will. But I think there'll be an element of him thinking, we should have gone and scored an extra couple. Will we regret that? That will start to creep in, but he can't let it creep into his language to the players that much. But he has to remind them. Saying things like, he won't be saying to them, improve your goal difference. He'll be saying to them, take your chances, be clinical, be ruthless. He'll be giving them those sorts of messages, I would imagine.

19:01And don't sit back.

19:04Gary Neville:make sure you carry on, keep on going sometimes at 3-0 earlier in the season you can relax and just manage a second half, they can't afford to do that, they've got to keep going Pep wins by any tactic, by any way so you have to think that Pep's going to win by goal difference and we can't be done that way, it's that type of thing really

19:25Peter Drury:So just finally in that context and all that context, last question tomorrow's game, Everton-Manchester City

19:30Gary Neville:I think City win, look it'd be absolutely stunning if City were to drop points on a Monday night, tomorrow night at Everton, it'd be stunning I don't think it'll happen but I don't think it'll happen do you? No, I think City would win whether they'll get a few goals obviously they're a tough nut to crack with any David Moyes team but I was just wondering going into the game it's a while since City have played because he rested a lot of players didn't he in the FA Cup semi-final now is that a good thing at this stage of the season do you lose a little bit of rhythm I don't know we'll probably talk about that as the game tomorrow but you know will we see Manchester City at their absolute best because as I said a lot of those players have you know gone a while without a game you just sometimes need something if you're Arsenal you need something is it a red card is it you're something that sort of like just completely blows a game up from nowhere and actually the game I think I think it's a massive week because I think the game that Arsenal are most likely to drop points in I'm doing the game next Sunday you'll be doing it as well I'm sure But that's the game I fear most, West Ham.

20:34Peter Drury:Ticklish one, that, isn't it?

20:35Gary Neville:Yeah, it's a horrible... I just... Yeah. I mean, I've got my own personal experience down at West Ham near the end of the season. Luzette, McCloscoe. Yeah, I just think West Ham is something that they're fighting for their lives. They need points. So I think Arsenal's game next Sunday, they've just got to make sure they concentrate on that. And just almost in some ways, somehow pray that City can drop points tomorrow night. But I think it'll need a massive event of some kind for it to happen. like a peculiar happening an early sending off or something of that ilk lovely stuff