3 Key Lessons From Real Entrepreneurs: Scaling, Branding & Reinventing | GaryVee Business Q&A

0:00Yo, everybody, thank you so much for listening to this episode. It would mean the world to me if you could leave a review for this episode. And back to the show.

0:32episode for you. First up, we have building for scale. How do you grow without losing momentum? Let's hear from the first entrepreneur as they break down their challenges for Gary. My question is leading towards scale. So we've been in business three years. We started selling subscriptions about eight months ago. We got to 160 ,000 a monthly recurring revenue in eight months. What subscription? So we sell a subscription to our direct mail platform, the software that we built. Got it. So it's a SaaS product. Yeah. So I just subscription. leave it on a print shop until you're fucking crazy. That's not been planned at all.

1:05We tried fulfillment partners. We tried all the other shit. They're a piece of equipment. They have manuals. We hired humans to put it all together. It's working on us. We do it all in-house. Huge in-home service right now. So my background, I have a cleaning company we've had for 12 years. We leverage that a lot. I've been doing the public speaking, the trade shows. We come out with products in that space, and it's working, but we fucking hate it. It's painful. So like the mom and pop, the customer service, it's the same fucking conversation from chucking the truck who started gesture away all the way up to a$500 million roofing business.

1:34Like there's no predictability. So looking towards scale, we want to sell this company for$500 million by the time we turn 40, that's in three years. I would tell you right off the bat, the first thing about that sentence is when I've noticed when entrepreneurs make those kind of ideologies, they dig into it and they tend to make mistakes when they have something good because of some arbitrary number. Like why not$750 million by the time you're 38? Because we keep putting a number to it and it's gotta keep going up. I get that. Just make sure you have a good relationship with it. With that number?

2:07Yeah. Can it change? Of course. That sounds like a good relationship with it. I just have noticed a lot of people make these crazy numbers like, when I'm 35, I'm gonna sell this for 100 million. And then when I've watched it, I'm like, fuck. They were well on their way to building something awesome, but because they fucking put this outcome on a pedestal, they did this M &A deal, and then they did this, and it all kind of unraveled. So just even you saying, can it change, already made me feel a hell of a lot better. Like having ambition is an incredibly beautiful kind of framework. Sometimes people dig a little bit too deep into numbers and it changes their decision making and it hurts them.

2:45So keep going. The number's so trivial for us. Like I want to say a billion. It's kind of like the Jets thing for me. Like I will be very okay if I don't buy the Jets. Like beyond. I'm okay now forever for the rest of my life. The process of trying is the fun. Dude, we sell it for a hundred or whatever. the fuck. We'll be static. Got it. Keep going. Keep going. The idea is that like we see the home service base. We see the scalability. James, you had said something at dinner last night about like not killing the golden deuce. So we can't just pull out a home service. Getting into cannabis real big.

3:15They can't send, they can't fucking advertise online. They can't do anything. We're doing huge stuff with mail with them. Makes sense. Makes sense. QR codes straight to chat. Makes sense. Aggregating lists, all that type of shit. Smart. So full-time the agencies really love. So we're not threatened. Of course, you're the back end. Exactly. We were, we were debating with like, do we do a white label or not? And Connor, the rational one in the relationship is like, dude, it's fucking the ads. We're like the agency Vanderbilt isn't going to want to tag their clients, get an invoice from dope. Right.

3:45We're going to get the fucking invoice from when you're on Facebook ads. Yeah, of course, of course. The ad spend or whatever. So as we look towards this acquisition, whatever that number is, you know, it's easy to set a metric of 40 being a goal or whatever. As we build towards that path, what would your advice be about a focus as like, so we time with CRMs, send Dave the roofer to a job, get the job approved, 50 postcards go to the neighbor. We've got your neighbor approved. Mark the job schedule. Another 50 postcards go part of the dust, part of the noise. We're working in it and it works for every fucking article.

4:13So what we say internally, if it's timeless, we spend time on it. If it's around since covered wagons, we want something to do with it. So the idea is like, or my question, First one is, where would you focus time? Is it all of them? Is it one of them directly? Would you? You mean the service industries? Yeah. You know, service industries, you look at relative. There's about 70, you want labor, you want equipment, or somewhere in between. Relative conversation. Cannabis, agencies, home service. I see. My intuition in this scenario off of what I'm reading, the answer would be all of them, but it would require you to be less profitable each year.

4:46What would it? Well, what James knows is Vayner made no money for three years in a row. Most people don't have that appetite, which is why they can't build big companies. What if we don't give a shit about that? Then go to every vertical, just hire more people and make no money. How do you feel about that? Yeah, it becomes a game of, hey, I don't know what you're doing with the profits. The company's in LLC. We're growing, yeah. Right, so like you're gonna get taxed on that and you're distributing to yourselves at the end of the year. Distribute less so you can be in more verticals fast. We're not some shit right now.

5:26Great. So then it's just maximize your profits to reinvest in people so that you can have heads of verticals and go hard at every vertical that you see opportunity in. What do you see in the canvas space as far as opportunity? I think it's gonna be one of the top 10 consumer products in our society. How do you fill out mail in the canvas space? I think while Facebook and Google are giving you an opportunity for land grab, you should go as hard as fucking possible because in about 40 minutes, it's not going to and you'll lose 80 % of your market. You know what I mean? I think for that one specifically because it's so unique out of everything we're talking about, you should go incredibly hard.

6:03How would you push agencies? Agencies are easy. We have a lot of agency relationships. That's why you already have, they're the easiest. They don't want to do shit. They want you to do all the work and they want to take a skim off the top. They're the easiest. That's why I hate them.

6:21Yeah, you know, like, yeah, like, you know this, agencies are thrilled to be a toll booth, do nothing, have, you know, make a margin on top of what you do and call it a day. They're, you should get all of that. Would you offer those big ones or the little ones? Little ones are easier, I think, because big ones can have politics and, like, are dopey. Would you take their leverage? So, like, Chris, we love Chris equally, right? Yeah. Because he's like, I can change your life. I'm like, Chris, would you do that for me? promise like they come with that ego shit with it so yeah i would say i would say an unemotional service provider small to mid or go after the big ones again this becomes a game of opportunity like at your level like to me it's you know i'm going through this with be friends right now we have 29 people we're probably gonna have 130 in september i'm about to hire 100 people what's the best advice you can give to someone to make as little money as possible if you think you have a good business.

7:13The biggest mistake people make is they wanna take money from the business instead of putting money into the business. Now, everyone has different circumstances. You know, some people have$400 ,000 in debt. Harder for that person to stay chill than someone who, like so, but the longer you can hold your breath if you have a good business and pour it back into the business, the bigger your business is gonna be. So we debate right now with funding. We're pretty liquid right now. Do you take and carve out 10 % equity to use leverage with that or are you just borrowing money as opposed to taking in funding?

7:44I think if the funding can be strategic, it can be very interesting. That's just the right partner, right? Right, yeah, which is really sometimes hard to tell up front. There's a lot of trickiness to that. But if you're, when you say you're liquid, to me, if you decide to take the concept that we're talking about and hire a lot more, all of a sudden having more cash at your disposal is pretty interesting. I think credit lines are interesting. We forget about that nerdy, simple thing called credit lines. You know, I think, I think, but I do think funding at times can work. I think money is the commodity for a good operator.

8:21I think finding someone who's strategic, who can get you more business is interesting. For example, if a family owned a private business of the biggest service provider, like that's where you want to go because immediately once they invest in you, they're also going to give you all the clients. And so it's like you get a double bite at the apple. so look for that kind of person any verticals that were missing that if you had your head on this that you would be looking at it right now so this is direct mail automated direct mail no minimum order that's really cool um influencers i think if you educate influencers through tiktok ads that it's almost like the ad is really funny it's like hey i know this is going to sound crazy you know what i mean like i know this is going to sound insane if you're an influencer but running direct mail in your local area for like pop-ups or events like it just might become ironic enough when i hear no minimum everyone should almost try it i would i also think that people don't like direct mail in a world where ios 14.5 has changed has more leverage than it used to and so yeah i mean ecom already does it i assume you're already yeah i i think the weird ones are influencer for sure I think is a weird one I think most influencers will struggle with it but if you get momentum what's cool about influencers is that world is small if god forbid Emma Chamberlain doesn't it works for her coffee like all of a sudden everyone's doing it and it can get real big real fast that's the one that probably stands out as like a weird one yeah and I think in your business if you're running on the kind of margin that you should be on a SaaS model.

9:59You should be doing like trial, low cost stuff. Like it's just worth it for acquisition. Up next, we have balancing identity and growth. How do you manage multiple ventures and brand clarity without confusing your audience? So kind of set up our content, the way it runs. We have epitronitors, brand platforms, and then my own personal, our own personal brands. Then I've got my photography on the side. Makes sense. Pretty big following, but strictly swimming so I should just share photos there. But what you can't fear is the occasional right hook of like we interrupt these normally scheduled programming to tell you I fuck with drones too.

10:40And let me give you a preview because I have to do this and it's humbling because nobody even the most secure at the top of the game and you know this, right? Like you see me on the team chat. I will post shit that I have to do that I know won't do well. but I have to do it. I want to see my normal 500 ,000 to a million views too, but I will take my 80 ,000 because I have to tell you that Sasha wants you to sign up for WineText. And it's not fun to get 80 ,000 views, but I'm in the business to help my dad get you all to sign up for Wine, which, by the way, you should all do that if you buy Wine.

11:15Sorry, guys. Don't mean to interrupt the podcast, but for real, if you're not already signed up for WineText, you definitely should be. You're right now scared to fuck up the algorithm. them you're you're picking the algo and your subconscious insecurity of hitting your numbers over getting two customers from your photography world into your drone business isn't that wild and you are like one of everybody else so the people that got four things going on fuck up the thing that you have the most followers on from your ideology for the practicality of your business. That's true. So then. Stick with me on that.

11:59You got me? Yeah. Like, if your photography thing is your biggest platform, they won't love it, but they love you. And if you're honest with them, be like, you gotta make the right piece of content. If you just post like a flyer and be like, sign up for the drone. They're like, if you're like, hey, real quick, I know I'm fucking up. Like, you're self-deprecating. I know like what you want me from here. Just FYI, I realize a lot of you don't fully know me. Let me tell you about myself. I do this and that and I grew up like, got it? Do you keep those, do I keep those separate from? You can. Where I do all the talking head and all that or?

12:32Look, first of all, and a lot of you have followed me for a long time. I was always the one that was challenging you like, do it all in one place. I was always fucking people up. Now I'm set because it's all based on the content. It doesn't even fucking matter. You want a wild card? Start a new account. It doesn't matter. You want to really get fucking liberated? It doesn't matter.

12:55Yeah, it's a real brain fuck to go from what we've been to where we're at. It's the content. It's the fucking content. So I think if you're respectful of your audience, disrespecting your audience and your photography is putting up a fucking epic, like flyer. Looks stupid. You know, like a piece of shit post. We all know what that is, right? Like a picture that's like fucked up. And like sign up now, like bad. You making a video, you know, and maybe a double setting, like the camera and the drone in your hand, and just talking, and being open with your audience to your photography, that's gonna work.

13:34Keeping them separate or not, I'm literally agnostic. I think at some level it helps people organize. I'm like very chaotic. I think a lot of people like, like, they over, you know this, a lot of you are getting fucked up because you care about aesthetic. You want your grid to look right. nobody gives a fuck about your grid you know meaning I get it like I don't want to discredit people going to a grid and getting like I love brand but fuck man 90 % of the action's in feed so if you're doing grid for the aesthetic but it's not following best practice to reach the most audience in feed to what you're trying to do what the fuck are you accomplishing you don't get it Gary I want people when they come to my account to see it right.

14:21I'm like, they're not coming to your account because you're trying to make it look right. You need the first part to work. Awesome. So then for Epic Drone Tour specifically, we do a really good job of sharing. Our videos are dope. Of course. They're epic. And then we do really well. You like that? That was good. Give me some for that. All right. And then we do really well behind the scenes. We show all of our pilots flying. We travel across the country, so we try to get as much content when there as possible. Send me iPhone videos and stuff. But what's the, I feel like we have the jab jab. What's the last, what's the value?

14:59What do you want to happen? Let's take a big step back. What would you, when you post something on social, what would you like to happen? Get customers obviously, but. No, no, no. This is like a good game. Play with me. How many of the posts would you like to do that? I think one every 10 would be. Good. So this is a good game because one could answer all of them. One could answer one. There's a lot of ways to think about this. There's no right answer. So let's say if you're thinking that way, which in a lot of ways, I think of it both ways. I think in those terms too. Jab, jab, right hook, right?

15:39But even when, I know that the other nine are building awareness and they may click the URL in my profile. In theory, all good content could be doing the sale. But back to you saying the sale, back to me saying I'm gonna fuck up my grid, sign up for Wine Text right now, do you guys go hardcore for the ask for business on every 10th post? That. Do you see what I mean? I'm telling you, there is a disease in marketing. It's called caring about the vanity metrics over your business.

16:17We're having a logical business conversation right now. I'm like, what would you like to happen? You answered really thought, like I liked your answer. I think it's one of the smart places you could have gone, but you're not doing it because you're caring about the vanity. Meaning you don't even, like, you're caring about the algo. It's algo over everything for everyone and for me it's business over algo. But then what's the business? Well, how would you talk to me if you wanted me to buy your shit? That's, I guess, kind of what we're figuring out is like we can give the, you know, you increase reach by having better videos, it builds a better brand for the companies because they're doing something nobody else is doing.

16:56Is that enough? Of course it's enough. What you're uncomfortable with is getting enough no's to make you question if it's enough. VaynerMedia gets 90 % no's, 10 % yes's.

17:13So then what, how, because I think the people that we've worked with so far are the capturing the demand. It's people that are the go-getters. They're doing the new thing. I have good news for you. You're not going to convince people to be more ambitious. So is there a way to kind of create the demand by, I guess, I guess we have a hard time getting the people that aren't already looking for what we do. You haven't even gotten remotely enough of a percentage of the people that are looking. you're worried about convincing the non-commissible and you haven't even gotten 1 % of 1 % of 1 % of the commenced you got it my brother one of the great things I really appreciate you understanding what just happened I would argue that I'm not sure if there's another thing bigger to my professional success than having the subconscious understanding at a very young age that you can't convince the unconvincible.

18:15Don't convince, just have conviction. I've been selling social media since 2009. How old were you in 2009? 12. Good. When you were 12, I was walking around this earth trying to sell social media services. Nobody wanted it, but I believed. And I found a small group that wanted it. And that's why we did$1 million in revenue the first year.

18:41Awesome. So you talk a lot about the consumer segmentations. We, as I kind of mentioned, we have the same services that we do, but we can name 20 different. Correct. The sentence you're going to say to a hotelier is going to be different than, right? Right. That's why I say the same thing 73 ,000 times in 100 different ways. So how do you, a feedback we have gotten is a lot of people that we're talking to come to our page and they're like, oh, they only do commercial real estate. They don't immediately see themselves, then they kind of assume that we can't help them. So how do you? Well then list them all.

19:19Like I don't know what the website looks like but literally it could be like. We have that website and we're talking social. It's like when they, if we do a cool shoot with the Padres for we have four posts on the Padres. Well why don't you have the bio say like drone footage for anyone and any business? That's a good idea. Well I didn't get here because of my looks. And then last kind of one. So for a while, I've always, I've been the one posting on social and being the front end, which I want to do for myself, but we're pretty soon gonna be, we are in the process of hiring social media manager, whatever.

20:00What is the best thing to have them start right at the beginning? Like I can have them do 20 things, but what? Well, I think if you're gonna hire someone, I think you want to ask her or him what they think.

20:13find someone that doesn't say to have a better grid because that's what all of them right if somebody said like this goes back to having a good strategy yourself that's what you're here doing correct like some of you now will actually like all of a sudden that becomes your radar I meet people all the time I talk to people all the time like I get pitched to join Maynard Media at the airport while I'm ordering a coffee And I'm weird. I'll talk to them. And when they're like, I can make your great great, they're out. Finally, we have the power of reinvention. Pivoting, fundraising, and breaking into new industries.

20:48Let's get a little bit more context from our next entrepreneur and see what Gary has to say. So, so far, lots of great things to safer through. So my background is I was a footwear designer for 17 years. I worked for Beyonce. I worked for Kenneth Cole. I've done all this great product. And actually, Joe's wife is in the footwear biz as well. And so coming up with this company, my joke is always that I have a landfill out there with my name on it. I was building all this great product. I was building product for Costco and Payless and Marshalls and TJ Maxx. And I found myself in this position of, like, what now?

21:30Like, I've been doing this for so long, and I'm not feeling passionate about it anymore. and Happy Circumstance ended up in a master's for sustainability and had a task rabbit come to my apartment. They helped me go through my closet and they pulled out this bag and they're like, what is this? And I was like, oh, that's alterations I have to do. And they're like, are you going to do them? I was like, ah. So I ended up donating them and I looked back at that. I'm like, wait, hold on. I'm literally in a master's for sustainability. I love fashion and that bag probably had the best things in my closet that I had a story for to tell, and I wasn't telling it.

22:06And so I started asking people, well, do you have a bag in the back of your closet? And it was either the trunk of a car, the back of a closet. And Kate's one of our customers for her, and I was part of that luminary community. And so we started seeing this opportunity that every single person here has something in their closet that something is wrong with, whether it's a tear or a button, anything. So how do we solve that problem? So for the customers, I've asked you that question. So smart. Thank you. For small businesses, you have mom and pop shops who are being totally, you know, broken by this technology that's helped air and travel and all these things, but they're left behind.

22:51So my question is going to be small brands, customers, brands, easy. We're taking their budget dollars for sustainable initiatives and effectively using them to badge them with local tailors. So Macy's, you buy something in New York, but let's say you bought it online and you live in Kentucky. How are they connecting you with a tailor or a cobbler in your location that you can connect with? And so finally, the planet, if you can extend the life of your clothes by just a few months, you can actually decrease your carbon footprint by 20 to 30 percent. But all that to say, I have these four main stakeholders, and I love them all so much.

23:30And we're about to start our pre-seed fundraise. And my co-founder, her background is engineering, consulting. She's worked for luxury brands and data and analytics. And I'm the, I talked for a long time, and I love what I do, and I'm so happy and excited. How do I most effectively speak to these four stakeholders, speak to investors, and create that roadmap for them? because like my real vision is reinvigorating the industry through certifications and trainings and making it so sexy to repair and revive your wardrobe that we're actually taking these designers out of school who are absolutely like, I literally had no idea this is what designing was and giving them the opportunity to work directly with people and learn from these like skilled artisans who are not passing down their work.

24:20Understood. with the purpose in the short term to raise capital. Yes. So I think that in the short term, there's only two ways that you would do that. One is go bananas on you being the face of the brand and doing content. Or two, you going through an exercise similar to the last one of, I do not think business people realize that almost all the gold is in their iPhone contacts from A to Z. It's really wild to me. Like when I think about, notice how like you just gave a beautiful like statement. That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said. No, it's really, it's the reason I gave you the answer of maybe you should be making a lot of content.