Balancing Ambition With Being Content

0:00The balance between business and personal and my family, is it okay just being okay if you're happy with okay? I think it's the ultimate. Yeah, I mean, I would argue that that is the basis of everything I believe in. You know, I think it's, I like having ambition. I like advancing. I like working on things that I'd like to be better at. I love chasing goals and dreams. I think the thing I struggle with is that I'm so at peace at all times and I'm desperate to find ways to communicate of what, if you're achieving what you're talking about, you've won. yeah I'm really just you know looking to provide as much value happy to answer anything any insights any relationships or things that I might be able to be a help of I just appreciate all of you being here it's like super fun to you know travel around the world and see what people are up to make connections make relationships um you know obviously I've been you know it's it's like really genuinely surreal to be going around in a circle and you know and hear what people are doing in their careers because when i wrote my first book crush it in 2008 the hypothesis was like people could make a living like the big statement in the book was like and people might be able to make six figures on youtube and literally the first hundred reviews on amazon were like you're a fucking idiot like nobody's ever gonna make money on youtube and social media and so and now it's like obviously a very scaled profession and reality and many people here live it so it's um it's kind of crazy to be og in a game even though it's such a young game and obviously have a lot of insights given what i do for a living so thrilled to share them happy to give anything i got for all of you so you can just fire away and we can chop it up what's what's your prediction for the next decade like if you were to make your crushing book again what would you say you know i i i tried not to force predictions so nothing's as clear like when i wrote that book it was clear to me that this was going to happen um i think what is clear is a lot of the next version and the current version and some of you will evolve into this.

2:19When I started Empathy Wines four or five years ago, the concept of a personal brand using the platform to create a product, like a true consumer product, not like a t-shirt, but like a scaled consumer product, was a little bit foreign. We built a pretty large business, we sold it to Constellation, it was a really substantial exit. But that's a minor leagues execution to what we're seeing with Mr. Beast's chocolate and Logan and KSI's energy drink. And so I think what's very clear to me is the biggest consumable brands, not fashion, not apparel, not like what we've all kind of seen for the last five years.

2:57I'm talking like the biggest potato chip in the world that is competing with Doritos or the biggest bottled water or the biggest bubble gum I think is gonna come from humans, not corporations. And so that's a big thing that's clear to me. I think that I think the AI metaverse thing is an inevitable outcome I don't know if it gets fully there within 10 years things go fast and slow it can be fully there but there's really a path for it not to be there I'm interested in that I think the biggest competitor to the space of creators is virtual creators so right now a lot of people in this room are disrupting actual celebrities and actual, you know, and enjoying it so much.

3:45You know, all the TikTokers and creators in this room and around the world are like, yeah, like we're getting the action. Like we're more famous than the famous people. I think the next decade, the fact that AI personalities and, you know, vloggers that aren't even human beings are gonna make the current influencers really sad because they're gonna take the business. so what this group represents taking away from Hollywood and mainstream celebrity it's very clear to me that virtual personalities are going to take that business and so that would be interesting so those are some things I'm thinking about in terms of how the US market dominates in terms of media, do you see in the next 10 years it changing as to US power being desaturated where Saudi Arabia becomes really popular or Southeast Asia becomes much more prominent in terms of where the attention focuses.

4:46Because if you look at, say, the top 50 music, it's like 50 % Spanish already, which is changing on a global scale. And then there's like Philippine songs coming in. And then there's all these other places. What are your thoughts on that? I think it's a really good observation. I'm very bullish on the decentralization of Hollywood being the dominant play. The world is getting much more global. The Latin movement has a lot to do with the fact that the US demographics are much more Latin than ever, but on the flip side, I think Saudi Arabia is gonna be an importer of it for a long time, and Saudi's got a lot of money, and so Saudi's game is less creating it and more buying it, which is why you see what they're doing with golf, or Ronaldo, or have very deep pockets to bi-culture.

5:41But I think what's going on in Colombia, the whole Bad Bunny, Palma, with J Balvin going way, way back to even early JLo, Ricky Martin, and Gloria Estefan going back, like the Enrique Iglesias. It's very clear that when you have 14 year old white kids in America obsessed with K-pop, and obsessed with music, they don't even understand the Spanish language. There's shit that's changing. And, you know, America's overall dominance in currency and pop culture is definitely on the decline. Because there's just so much more, I mean, China has its own scale. India is going through its own nationalism movement.

6:27So that will happen. America itself demographically is changing. Social media allows for anybody, not just someone who flies to LA and makes it in Hollywood to pop so yeah I think that's in full pledge. I don't think Saudi Arabia is big enough or organic enough to be the place where it comes from. They just have, they're gonna buy it. Who would you say like top three, top five markets like really pay attention? Well China is really a true market in itself because it's so big, right? Making it in China and never leaving China is very viable.

7:07You know, I think the most, to a much further prediction out, I think the most vibrant, interesting continent is Africa. I think Africa is going to be a major player. In 24, some, this may not be exactly right, but something like in 2040, 35 % of the people 25 and under will live in Africa. so it's an incredibly vibrant wildly talented similar to like what we've seen Southeast Asia or Latin America like it's on the super come up in the way the Middle East I think was over the last 25 years and so I expect super like I always say to my friends I'm like black coffee is the preview not the anomaly and so I think you're gonna see global superstars coming out of Africa in a big way that would be the place in a little further out In a five or 10 year window, I think you'll see continuation of what we're seeing now.

8:04Pardon my ignorance. I'm not sure if you have children. I'm not sure how many others in the room have children. I have four kids. I know you talk a lot about like regret and mindset and stuff. Like, is it personally all right? Like, I'm content. I know the whole seminar and a lot of today's talk about earning more, growing your business. Like, the balance between business and personal and like family. is it okay just being okay if you're happy with okay? Or do you think it's... I think it's the ultimate. Yeah? It's the ultimate. Even in a society where they're constantly pushing like make more money, earn more money, status.

8:38I don't... If you're personally happy you think that's all it... It's... I mean of course. It is, yeah. I mean it's... It's the biggest reason I talk about the things... I'm a businessman and I love business but I think it's crazy to chase money you know as a singular KPI. mainly because the majority of people that I know that are wealthy are not content yeah I mean I would argue that that is the basis of everything I believe in I you know I think it's I like having ambition I like advancing I like working on things that I'd like to be better at I love chasing goals and dreams but I think the thing I struggle with is that I'm so at peace at all times and I'm desperate to find ways to communicate of what, if you're achieving what you're talking about, you've won.

9:35Like to me, waking up with anxiety is like devastating. It's so challenging. Like being anxious and being concerned and being worried, those are tough. You know, of course, I know you know it's okay. Right? Thank you. You know what I mean? How do you manage, like, with all that you do, I couldn't even, because I feel like I'm absolutely flat out and, like, just pulled between so many different things. It's tied in a little bit to the two things. For me, what works is the balance of hunger and ambition with complete and utter content, which equals, it's like a formula, hunger and ambition, you know, plus wild content equals the ability to not judge myself for making mistakes.

10:21so the reason I can handle so many things is if you're trying to do 98 things like I do that brings me great joy I love the chaos of playing on many fronts you have to be completely comfortable with losing a lot many things I try and work on don't succeed and if you're not comfortable with that and you are worried about people's judgment of your failures well you'll never do a lot of things you'll only do one thing when people are like I'm a perfectionist I'm like you're scared you're not a perfectionist you're scared of judgment

11:00what do you think what do you think were your three keys to success on your successful exit of empathy not necessarily revenue historical leverage I grew up in the wine business and everybody knew me in that world

11:20two was my two partners started as interns and had been with me for 10 years before we started the company so full family execution you know just like full trust full alignment same page fucking dancing to the same song and three a very contemporary marketing plan and execution that was very valuable for Constellation for all their brands, not just empathy. So it was a scalable model that they could use for their overall business so that by just buying the company, they were ROI positive right away because we immediately impacted all their business, not just empathy. Those three. Thank you. Another thing to add as well, you were saying, what I find struggling the hardest as well as an artist.

12:06Like literally, I was a builder for 10 years and then I went to Mexico for a little surf trip and decided to be an artist. and came back and literally all I do every day, I sit up, paint and surf and that's all I do. And I'll get to the end of the day and I feel so dark saying, fuck, this is like pretty hectic, this is my life. And you're sort of in that depression where it's like, I don't deserve this. How do you ever get that? And do you feel what's the best design? Why do you feel like you don't deserve it? It's sort of like, oh, because I was a builder. You know how hard it was. Yeah, and then now it's like I'm painting, you get in contract with one of these big companies and you're like, fuck, I don't deserve this life.

12:42this is pretty, and I get really dark about it. I wanna make sure I understand. One more time, you feel like you get dark because why? I get really like in a head space where I just don't feel like that life, because I'm still young. Like your hosta syndrome? Yeah, so I think because you don't deserve it. So I sort of get really down on myself and that's what I sort of - Because it's too good and you don't think you deserve it? Yeah, and I feel like fuck, I should be still working hard. Because my missus is in the Navy so she works good hard all the time. I see. I'm like, fuck that. Well, is she sustaining your lifestyle?

13:14Is she sustaining your lifestyle? Not at all. So then what's the problem? I just get really dark about it. And that's what I was sort of thinking. Do you feel, well, I think, well, here's an interesting thing. I always think like there's a lot of similar feelings that can take two very big extremes. So let me explain what I mean by that. When I hear you talk, now that I understand what you're saying, my place would go into why are you not leaning into heavy gratitude versus heavy judgment? Instead of going dark why not be super thankful? Why not be practical about the fact that you could literally be diagnosed with terminal cancer tomorrow?

13:56And so just because it's good now doesn't mean it's going to be good forever. And why not be grateful that tomorrow you wake up and get to do what you're doing? You know? I actually understand the concept of having guilt. Like I talk about it a lot that my energy is based on this weird mix of like heavy gratitude and heavy and a guilt of like the luck of the DNA and circumstances that built me to who I am. But I think you're giving guilt too much energy and not enough to gratitude. You know what I mean? And then the other thing is what you may want to do is contribute. So another thing that I'm thinking about is one of the things that really gives me tremendous peace of mind is I have this incredible framework of gratitude but I've been like bleeding for the last 15 years to try to impact others in a positive way through storytelling.

14:45You might be able to add a scenario to in between surfing and going to painting if you articulate what, if you break down that trip to Mexico over and over and over again, you might be able to inspire someone to have their version of Mexico for them to be happy. You know, when I think about how grateful I am for being as happy as I am, it always is more palpable when I read my DMs or emails in the morning where people are giving me roses for really helping them. And so maybe you need that right now because maybe it's, you're feeling inherently too selfish. My missus is doing this. You're not doing anything for the world.

15:23Maybe adding, this may be what you're thinking. I don't know yet. No, that's the same thing if you don't feel like you can do anything for the world. Yeah, I wonder, you know, your trip to Mexico is profound. You just sat here and said, I was working. I went to Mexico. I came back and was an artist. Like, that's fucking rad. And I wonder if there's an opportunity for you to really, really break, you know, what I do for a living now, professionally, from a content creation standpoint, is I've spent thousands of hours dissecting my life and its experiences to try to articulate in different ways with different adjectives on different platforms of like, what's the insight to that and how could that actually matter to someone?

16:01And if they can make a connection of like, oh, that's me too, maybe that can lead to their thing. I think you should really consider to try to like story tell about that trip because it's profoundly interesting and you might inspire someone and maybe that will scratch the itch that you're feeling right now emotionally which would be rad because then you're taking something that right now is eating you up and it can turn into a very positive energy. I would try that.

16:28Out of all the artists you talked to, I know you love rappers and stuff and we have a lot of artists how do you balance making your art about fitting the market and what it is that you want internally to express because like it's my biggest pain point that people can't wrap their head around and I just think that you can do both this is why I believe in volume so much it's not 1984 where you can only put out one album every three years because you had to fucking press it on a fucking disc like it's the internet like put out a fucking song that is completely trend on trend on trend on trend because you want to you didn't sell out you wanted to make something that was on trend and then make a fucking ballad where you pour your heart out that you know isn't commercially viable because you need to scratch your like this concept that you're not allowed to be both commercial and have depth is insane to me we're obsessed in the world of or does it make it hard for the consumer to understand the brand.

17:33No, no. I'm not confused about Lil Wayne because he put out a rock album. It's these philosophical things that are old school. They're theory. What people give a fuck about is do I like this fucking song or do I connect with this song? You know, you're not like, oh. Like fans, well, like they ebb and flow anyway. Like, you know how it is. Your earliest fans fuck with you. Then you get bigger. Then you've sold out. then they miss you and they come back then you disappear for a while and they really miss you then you come back, they're like back but then it's not good for them anymore and you're a different life cycle like I just know this to be true because I in my craft of content creation like people are like Gary I don't fuck with your shit anymore I'm like that's great like I'm so humbled that I was ever a factor in the first place and then those same people four years later like y 'all back and I'm like of course like because we've matched up again you know yeah I think those are so historical points of view because of the limitation of distribution but now we have unlimited distribution and the only thing you're doing is not getting out what you want by sitting and debating this all that's happening is inaction right look at the back to back things you know he's thinking through his feelings if he acts on putting out what I just said like there's only action similar point like on the fans and stuff with t-talk i'm sure you get this from a lot of short-form creators about converting them converting short-form viewers into fans of course of course like any guidance yeah i mean i think i think the biggest problem for a lot of people is they don't convert because their intent and or talents don't convert well explain hey Gary I'm TikTok I want to have subscribers to YouTube but they're not good at YouTube they're good at TikTok but not YouTube like they're not good at vlogging but they are good at TikTok or vice versa then so that's the ability the talent like there's a very different art form of making short form TikToks than there is in making a 7 to 13 minute video those are just different crafts so one sometimes that's the hard part the other part is intent I think the biggest issue right now for a lot of creators and influencers when they plateau is they plateau because their talents have gotten them to, whatever that is, they're attractive, they're funny, they can be a magician, they can sing, whatever it is, whatever their talent is, humor, beauty, a skill, their talent goes to a certain place, they plateau because they're selfish.

20:22Everything's about for them. Gary, I want to convert this audience to buy tickets. I'm like, okay, like what are you doing for them? And so I think we are in an era right now of selfishness at scale. And when I analyze what's happening and who continues to grow when they plateau, I can see a direct correlation from what I do for a living, which is that there's an extra gear of trying to bring value or filling a void that is above and beyond the surface level part of their skillset. you know what I mean I think for everyone here if you literally posted something tomorrow with the full framework of why is this good to some for somebody why is this good for them and entertainment is powerful like it's massive why are models good like like beautiful people bring value like I want to look at this I want to listen to this I want to see this but you've got how to continue that framework and eventually when you keep doing the same thing, it's oversupply against it.

21:30They've seen that. And what most people do is then they get stuck and they start to get sticky or they try to jump on trends or they're stuck because what they haven't realized is they now have to transition to a selfless framework instead of a selfish framework and almost nobody's thinking about that.

21:50Every question is, every question is how do I monetize my audience? Nobody ever asks me like how do I make it more valuable for my people?

22:03What's your thoughts on building a business at this moment when there's like so much economical vulnerabilities and dollars? There's never a bad time to start a good business. At times you think like, oh, I should take the same side and go into commodities and things like that. There's never a bad time to start a good business. To your point, you're not wrong. I think that's good. Like, hey, high risk, high reward. But like, if you're gonna build a good business, whether the economy's good or bad, you're gonna win. To your point, if you don't have a clarity that you're building a good business, it's probably not a good idea to just guess.

22:38But I have good news for you. When money's flush and flundering too, unlimited bad businesses start and fail. So to answer your question, don't worry about the outside economic realities. worry about your capacity or your belief system in what you're building. Got it? This is where people get caught on like, where's the money at? What's the trend? What's the macro thing? If you don't build a good business, 99 % of the businesses two years ago when money was flowing failed. Because they weren't good. Businesses are hard. It seems like it's not because everyone's an entrepreneur now, but everyone's playing an entrepreneur.

23:20Can I ask about your health regime? Because you just have unlimited energy. Yes. Which is amazing. As I said, I have an intermittent fasting membership. Yes. Do you do intermittent fasting? So as you know, intermittent fasting is much more on the cultural tip of tongue today. I have been doing it pretty much my whole life. Fantastic. and what about your exercise? What's your regime there? I, you know, I used to have somebody travel with me full time for pre-COVID for like six years and I worked out, I was in the gym every single day. Now he lives in Minnesota. We do a lot of stuff virtual. He's not traveling with me as much but I'm probably, you know, in this year, I'm, what are we in, in August?

24:17like in the last eight months, I probably am in the gym 85 % of the days. I work out predominantly seven days a week when I'm not traveling. And even when I am, I'm usually working out with him. I hurt a pec muscle and a glute. Like I'm a little strained right now. So, and this trip's a little awkward, but yeah, I work out quite a bit. I do a lot of soft tissue work. That is, you know, I don't know if people, if you have like a bad back or stuff, of like fascia and soft tissue is fascinating. You should look into it. But yeah, I work out. Fantastic. So you actually encouraged me to move to New York last year and it's like my second home now, which I really like.

24:59And one of the things that you said that stuck with you the most recently is that you are your own niche. And I wanted to ask you on that and your journey in discovering that because that's been very profound to me. Thank you. You know, as a lot of people here know, like everyone's like, you need a niche or you don't like, And I'm just like, man, everyone's struggling of like, I gotta find my niche. Everyone's like, this sucks. There's too many influencers. I'm like, but you're one of the problems. Everybody doesn't want competition. It makes me laugh. As if you're entitled to, I'm like, Gary, you don't get it.

25:33I used to be, I'm like, you don't get it. I was doing this before you were born. This was awesome. I was a YouTube sensation when there was 19 of us. you know like um so i'm glad you picked up on that and it's hit a lot of people and i need to continue to do more content about this by nature you as a human being are your niche because we're all really really different if you're willing to go if you're like hey i'm a an artist or a magician well then you're not but if you keep going and just saying what else you are and who you are and what you look like and where you were born and like it's just it's niche personified and i I am fascinated because I just always go on what I know is right versus what everyone's kind of pushing.

26:15So even my public speaking career, Steve and I were talking about this on our flight this morning from Melbourne to here. Like I cursed. That was super crazy off. Like in 2009, that was just like, what would you say? Steve has grown up in this game. Steve, what do you think? Like in 2009 when I was really speaking and cursing, what percentage of gigs did that immediately eliminate me from? Oh yeah. Just off top. So he worked for a different company. Steve's one of the key executives at Vayner speakers. Zach, his teammate, was my speaking agent at CAA. And like we talked about the story of like Zach's boss because he was kind of like underneath this guy, a great guy, Peter.

26:58And they called me and were like, hey, you're starting to like, something's happening for you and we really think you can be big but you have to immediately stop cursing. And I was like, I have some really bad news. I'm like, I'm gonna have to stay not that big because I'm just not capable of like, so I dressed super casual and I'm a businessman. That was crazy. Like you had to really wear suit and tie. Like I was doing all these things wrong but everything worked for me because I became my niche because I just stayed, it's back to like, people throw around authenticity all the time, but they like, but then they're not.

27:36Like people compromise their authenticity for the algorithm. People compromise their authenticity for the likes. Think about that, for the followers, right? But then if that was true, then the culture wouldn't be the way, if Pharrell and that whole crew didn't like make nerd culture cooler, like all the rappers that rock Dragon Ball Z now and fucking Pokemon wouldn't be doing that. It took their courage because that wasn't cool. And so like I would tell all of you like a lot of people are holding in all sorts of things. Sexual orientation, hobbies, true friendship, other interests that don't fit the profile or the persona that they've built.

28:19And the reality is that's the shit that's gonna make people love you. I'm a very real businessman. like not like like I make money as a personality like I'm a businessman like built lots of big businesses and I'm like making videos about garage selling and buying two dollar items and all my real business friends like the real business people are like what the fuck are you doing and I'm like I'm showing people how to make $55 out of$2 and like but this makes you look like you're like they're like this is fucking you up I'm like it's not like I can sit in the boardroom with the most significant business people in the world and I can go to a garage sale and buy a t-shirt for a dollar and sell it for four bucks and I don't give a fuck if somebody doesn't want to interact or follow me because of that or do business with me because there's so many people that will and I think everybody here if they push themselves a little if everybody here today tomorrow's next two posts one was I am 100 % focused on making this this single thing that I think can bring the most value to everybody who sees it, nothing matters for me.

29:26And the next one is, I'm gonna talk about some shit that nobody knows about me, but there's really me. I think it would change the trajectory of what the majority of this room's up to. I believe that. I believe both posts may do worse than every post that they're accustomed to because it's not on best practices. But I think it will change in a great way for everyone. I really believe that. What's that? I got a rabbit. Thank you. Hello. Hello. Hello. So, first of all, you know, it's really lovely to actually speak to you. And I want to say thank you because prior to being part of Zayna, everything, you know, your content, I started watching you when I was very, like, I was very focused on academics.

30:11I was very, like, that was, I didn't give myself a creative outlet for a long time in my life. And when I spoke to you last, this was 2022 and Gary Vee, I was sort of at like a point where my chronic illness was really affecting me. Do I go back? Do I try academics? I know I struggle with it, with my body, my health, all that. Do I try out this creative thing? And, you know, your content, our conversation, everything, you know, you gave me a lot of courage to try and be a creative. And I have and I've worked with John Henry Style now as a brand illustrator. Like crazy stuff has happened. I'm really grateful for it.

30:46I think recently, like, I don't know if it's being like just hitting 25 or whatever. I don't know if it's the type of career that it is or if it's just life. You know, I feel like I've struggled a lot in the last maybe two years or so with uncertainty and rejection. You know, and these are things that like I thought I was always comfortable with. But as I'm just getting like to this section of whether it's, I know people feel this at every age. But it's like the rejection. Well, that's. just hit and it's like, what's your advice? My advice is to understand yourself. Somebody that grows up that puts academia on a pedestal is protecting themselves for not being rejected.

31:30Like fake, AKA school, once you figure out the system you can get A's and you can trick yourself into not having rejection. Real life is only rejection. Life is only rejection. all life is is micro losing