How to Give Value and Win in the Creator Economy

27:07And one of the things, I was having this long conversation, making all these excuses, and eventually got to the point, like, why do I deserve to be up there? And he's often one of the people who comes to me and he's gassing me up, he's helping me. and I guess my question is like when imposter syndrome comes, how do you tackle it? Couple things. One, I think we're living in a world right now where we've created words that are way too heavy for what's actually happening. Like one that I'm super pissed about right now is toxic positivity. I'm pissed. I'm gonna get on that. I won't even go into a rant because it might take up all the time.

27:48I get delusion and selling a bullshit dream, yes, but do you know what imposter syndrome actually means in real life? When OGs like me from decades ago, when the word didn't exist, do you know what it was called? I know what you've said in the past, but I would love to. I even have a new definition because I know it's a micro, micro insecurity. You're just having a quick moment of insecurity being like, I can't believe it. Little old me from Arizona is about to interview Bruce. Like all of us are supposed to have those moments. I pinch myself all the time. Like I, especially at this point in my career, I'm getting DMs from like presidents of countries and like the most, I don't even know what the fuck's going on.

28:30But I don't think like I'm lesser than. My brain goes into like, well, why not? Like, you know, I don't know. Like in the narrow things that these people want to talk to me about, I'm passionate or knowledgeable. You are passionate and knowledgeable of what you have. you may not be the most passionate you may not be the most knowledgeable you might not be the best interviewer I don't think you're Larry King but you're on your way you're probably better today than you were before so I would just say that I'm struggling right now because I think youth culture has created words that are just really heavy imposter syndrome like toxic everything's so heavy and the words we used were just lighter versions like you would have called ready?

29:13If you and Tyler were my age, you would have called and been like, yo bro, I feel a little insecure about this interview. That feels way lighter than imposter, you know, I think we've made things heavy on some really deep psychological warfare that we're doing to older generations. I don't even want to go into this but like, we're making things heavy because we're looking for sympathy. We're looking to continue our over-coddling of modern parenting. There's a lot to this, nonetheless, here's what I would say to you. How do I deal with it? How do I recommend people doing with it? Take some heat off.

29:50Like, what's gonna happen here? Let's say this is the worst. Let's say you're terrible in this, like, you're bumbling. Let's say you really admired me because you viewed me as someone who really did help your career. And you were nervous. I mean, first of all, me as a human, I would feel compassion for that and jump in and try to make it better and hug it. Like, what if I was the reverse of me? Bizarro Gary. and storm down and be like, you stink. Who gives a fuck? You'd be like, fuck Gary Vee and move on with your life. I want to get people to think more about worst case scenario. We've created mountains out of molehills.

30:22We've created fucking mountains out of molehills. So how do I deal with it? It's just not that important. Every business meeting that you have, every conversation you have, I'm guessing it's a different goal every single time. For example, you just talked about if this is the worst interview I ever do. Yes. One of the things that I always do when I walk into an interview is I want to try to make it the best interview possible, which isn't definable. Right. But you know you're putting, what I love about that is that means you're putting in work, listening to other podcasts, trying to figure out questions.

30:54It's humbling. And I admire it. And for every interview you do, humbling for me in this one. You're trying to think of different, like I love that. That means you have pride in your work and you're trying. That's great. Good for you. That's amazing. That's admirable. If there is. I mean, I try to give the. I'm one of the most compensated, most successful public speakers in the world. Every time I go on stage, I'm like, man, I got to live up to this hype. You know, like real talk, you know. And I give it my all. And I'm improv. So I'm not. Like, you put in good work. Like, I'm improv. So, like, you're.

31:31It's like SNL out there. Like, you don't know. You know, I kind of. I mean, here's the reality. I'm talking about things I know. It's just like this, right. I don't have to think. I just talk about shit I know. So it's complete improv in that I have no idea what I'm gonna talk about. Now, what I'm good at is, okay, this is the dentist academy of the universe. These are 5 ,000 dentists who wanna build their practice. So my brain goes into, what would I do if I was a dentist? And because what I do for a living is attention, marketing, business building, how to communicate to the world. It fits for everything.

32:04It doesn't matter what I walk into. And because I'm still in the traffic and in my craft, I can speak in detail about Substack right now and LinkedIn and podcasting and vlogging and live streaming and what's happening on Kik and Twitch and SoundCloud and Spotify and TikTok and Beehive, which is a competitor to Substack. I go deep. I know what's going on in threads. Threads in detail. Snapchat, Spotlight, their TikTok. I'm a practitioner. I'm good at my craft, so I stay in my lane, but it's improv. Like the joke I make, the analogy I make, the path I go. I might go, do you know how improv I am?

32:43There are some times where I actually try to go down a certain path. Like I'm three minutes behind the curtain. They're like, Gary Vee. I'm like, okay, I gotta really talk about live shopping. And then something happens. It happened right now in this interview. These things go on and it's over. It's like everything gets blanked and I'm just going. But I think that's great that you have that pride. How do you define success for a speech or live shopping? Audience reaction. If you don't get an audience reaction, is it like, what goes on in your mind? That I'm disappointed. That like, you know, with my style, I curse a lot.

33:16So, usually I'll throw out a curse and it pretty much looks like this. 50 % of the time, people are pumped. Like, they don't hear a lot of cursing. I'd say, yeah, it's real. 30 % of the time, no, no, that's not true. 40 % of the time, it's like, fine. It's like, they know, especially at this point in my career, they know who I am. It's like, okay, he's gonna curse a little bit. five or 10 % of the time it's like, ooh, that didn't land. And then I'll, you know, back to improv, I'll like start to walk away from it. Once in a while, man, I've given maybe over a thousand speeches publicly at this point.

33:49I would say maybe two hand, like maybe 10 times. Remember this one talk very vividly in Midtown where it was an open bar at late at night while I was giving the keynote? And these people wanted to fucking get hammered and hook up. They could give a shit about social media marketing. And it was like really hard. and I was like really pressing. You know, there's also times where it's well received but I didn't love it. Like I feel like, eh, this is right. That equally feels almost weirdly the same as like not nailing it. But you know, I kind of walk away and try to be better for it the next time.

34:25Luckily, that is one of the places where even my worst appearances are like a C. I don't have DNF ability in live speaking. How would you define DNF? I mean, a lot of speeches I've seen, like people are boring as shit, no one gives a fuck, everyone's on their phone, people can't wait for the person to get off the stage, they're literally reading from a telepron, like people are falling asleep, could give a fuck, getting up and getting coffee and taking a piss, like because they just can't wait for the next speaker. Is it because of how many speeches you've done now and like what you know from it, or do you think it's just was...

34:58It was a natural talent. My first speech, I remember like yesterday in Florida, I had never given a speech, I'd never thought about giving a speech. they paid me$5 ,000. I thought it was like 80 billion. I was stunned I was getting paid for it. I got there, people were giving, I'd barely been to speeches. People had slides, I'm like, oh shit, I don't have slides. I'm like, I'm a DNF student, I'll just go up there and do whatever. And it fucking rocked. People were like, I was like fucking Elvis. Like, it was over, it was the last speech, people were rushing to the stage, can I ask you more questions?

35:25I back then used to not fly home right away, so I was like staying in the hotel overnight. I was just gonna work in the hotel and have dinner. I stayed for four hours and talked to every person. and like literally like that high I was like oh my God. You know it's funny music. You hear a lot of people you guys know music better than I do like the first time they picked up a guitar right? Like right? It happens right? The first time they went to I'm sure some people right? You know like people humbly told you like no it's just in me. Athletes we talked about earlier like I see LeBron James little videos when he was like five like you knew.

35:58And so like you know I'm not saying I'm LeBron or some all time musician but in public speaking it came really uncomfortably natural. But then again, I talk to a lot of artists where there's a lot of things that don't come incredibly natural to them. What are some things that didn't come natural to you? There are still things that don't come natural to me that are essential to running a business. Reading contracts. Do you know that I have no idea? I might not even own my own businesses. My head of legal, Mark Yudkin, I trust him so much. Everything's a contract. He could literally put a contract in front of me and be like, you give me everything.

36:31Yep, like no clue. Finance, I'm good with numbers from a common sense standpoint. Like my seven times seven is 49. Like math comes natural to me in basics. But there's a reason I got D's and F's in like algebra and calculus. And more importantly, I don't want to spend any time balancing the books. I sat through a finance meeting today. I'm actually proud. I've gotten to a place where I found a way to enjoy it. But I went years, I mean I built this company from zero to 100 million in revenue. and I don't think I looked at finances once. Now, I had my brother looking at, like, there's reasons, but like, and I know how to, like, I know common sense, like, I know how to not run out of money, but finances, legal, these are foundational things to running a business.

37:17I'll give you one, I'll be vulnerable, you definitely heard this, candor was, candor on public, I'm a fucking G. Podcast, stage, I'm candor fucking capes. I'm the fucking superhero of candor. Real life, Bryce has been here for three days, I already feel less wanting to tell him what he's not good at than three days ago because the second people get into my world, I'm like, let's be friends, let's be family, let's be, like, so candor was a struggle for me. I've really fixed that in the last five years. How? I went through a lot of, every challenge I've had in my personal and professional life. I looked myself in the mirror five years ago and said, I've got a kryptonite.

37:54It was hard. This goes back to why I think people can change. I just looked at myself in the mirror. I'm like why do some former employees not like me? That's insane. I'm the nicest. And I love them. I'm like fuck it's all the same movie. I was unable to tell them what they were not good at. Instead I'd be like great to see you. Have the best day. I would start to build resentment because they sucked. Or under delivered. That's not fair. Or they under delivered against my subjective. Yeah. Right? KPIs or objectives. I was unable to communicate to them. and then out of left field they got fired and they were mad at me.

38:30They're like, what the fuck? Where the fuck did that come from? And everything bad in my personal life, relationships and professional life was my inability to not be candorous, building up resentment and then leaving everything for them but like leaving, right? Or firing because I can't have the company go out of business. I can't let the good people go down with the people that are underperforming. So I just finally looked myself in the mirror after several, enough momentum professionally and personally of like, mm, mm, mm. And I just wanted to be better. Like, I'm always self-checking myself and I just finally got there.

39:05It was like kind of like blur. First, I didn't see it at all in my 20s. Then probably in my 30s, I could kind of like, started getting a little blurry. You know, it's coming into focus, you know? In my early 40s, I'm like, mm. And then, you know, some people that were working with me for nine or 10 years got really close enough to be like, hey, you do know that like you, I used to call it razzing. I weaponized a word I'm like I'm gonna razz you what I was doing is I was being passive aggressive because I was upset with your performance but I couldn't tell you so I had to innuendo it and I'm really happy where I'm at right now I'm getting more candorous

39:43that's something that I have a bit of a problem with especially when it comes to conflict well by nature if I'm gonna tell Tyler right now like hey, I think you're working too much on your sidewalk walks. This is not true by the way, Tyler, don't worry. But I know he does them. If I had a, because he works his face off, but if I was like oh man, he's like here but he's really downstairs interviewing emerging rappers and I'm paying him. Before I would make a joke, I'd go to the bathroom and be like go to the rapper? Try to do something where I didn't have to, right? By nature, if I was gonna come to him, who I am now, is I would call him in and be like hey brother, there's so many good things you're doing.

40:20I gotta be honest with you though, I feel like you're kind of working on your own thing half the time and I'm paying you full time. I can now do that in a nice way but by nature that's a conflict. So anything that's candorous is gonna touch on conflict so I get it. Go ahead. Did that take just practice? Yes. It still fucking sucks for me. It's still like I have butterflies in my stomach in the morning when I wake up when I have to talk to a junior employee and tell them they're not doing well. Me. Junior employee. if I'm gonna have to have that convo for whatever reason, maybe I know their parents or something.

40:54It's, yeah, I don't like it, but I've definitely gotten through it. I'm on the other side. It's very popular, at least in current business practice, at least content practices, where often business owners talk about this idea of only working on the things that you love, only working on the things that you're good at. Do you not feel that you could have hired someone to be that candor's bridge for you? I did but I thought it was it's not authentic because I'm so deep in the culture. I could. By the way, that's what most people do. They have HR to do the dirty work. I'm in the shit too much. I'm in the fabric of this company.

41:31I know people's real lives. I'm like, by the way, that can happen to somebody I don't know. I have 3 ,000 employees. There's plenty of people I don't know. That can happen in that scenario. It's when I'm touching. Real talk. If Tyler today, this is perfect that he's here and you're connected to him. If Tyler, and you'll watch how he reacts to this, if Tyler got an email from our pet team, people and experiences team, because I don't even like calling it HR because I think it's so bad, that term, if he got HR and they like drilled him, it would be so out of left field and he would wonder like, why did I let that happen without a warning?

42:07Because we're close enough of that. And that would end the trust that him and I have right now. It would change our relationship. So I couldn't do that. that's not the right thing to do. But what I was doing was even worse. What I was doing was worse. I wouldn't let HR do it, but then no one did it. And then what would literally happen is like in six months, I'd be like, Ty, Ty, Ty, you know, we're at the end of the road here, man. Like, you know it. Like, you stink. You know you're doing all these rap videos. Like, right? And the person didn't. And I, and for a long time, I blamed them. I'm like, fuck this person.

42:40I fucking had them on my payroll for two extra years while he was doing his rap video. I know I'm on this kick now. And so I would blame them. I was not accountable. And you know what really breaks my heart? I could have fixed it for everyone. That's what I'm intoxicated now with kind candor. I've been able to course correct for people and now they're gonna have great careers. Now I see it as a way I can really help. So that's really changed the paradigm. Before I used to think it was a way to scare people. I thought it'd be like, hey, you gotta shape up. I thought he'd be walking and basically be on LinkedIn an hour later looking for a new job because he was scared that I told him he might be on thin ice.

43:15Now I see it very differently. Now I see it as like, he's gonna be happy with me that I'm giving him an opportunity to address it. We had a major one happen in the LA office in the last three months, a very senior person. It's shocking. The kind candor from me and other leaders, like that person's on the complete other side of the pit, like not even the same person. So it's exciting to see the benefits of doing the right thing. You invested in some of the biggest companies ever back in the day. How big of a risk did you take? What are some of those companies and why did you invest in them? What point of your career were you at when that happened?

43:57When I invested in Facebook and put$200 ,000 into it, I had$234 ,000 in savings. And I was paid under$100 ,000 from ages of 22 to 34 even though I built a huge business for my father because it was an immigrant business and you don't get paid. it was a catastrophically big bet that I did not think was a big bet at all. I was 100 % sure that Facebook was going to be monstrous. Not even 99. Why? It already was big. That's it. That's the truth. It's not like I met Mark when he's like, I got an idea. It was a couple years later. It already had tons of users. Every school that went, like here's why.

44:38It started in Boston obviously. My brother, which was lucky for me, was at BU freshman year of Facebook. So BU got it like fifth. And my brother's like, yo, there's a new app? Because we were already into tech a little bit. I was wearing Library TV. Like every kid in my school's on it within the first hour. I'm like, oh, interesting. So I already kind of knew it from that frame. You know, when you're watching, I already believed in MySpace and knew MySpace well. I was interested in how Facebook was causing the risk. Like I knew I couldn't be on Facebook because it was just for college kids. I thought that was smart.

45:17I know how young, I was, yeah, and I was 30, so I just got out of the era a decade ago of like how kids think about things. Like they don't want anybody older on it and like how cool culture works. I fully believed in social media already. Even going further back to MySpace, I don't know if you guys know this, there was a site called Friendster, which was before MySpace. Tumblr, right after that I invested in. That was middle school culture, not even college. Was there any return on Facebook by that point that were like, yes, Tumblr? Like, was the thing that you started? No, no. The reason I was, so I invested in Twitter, 43 ,000, 40 ,000 into Tumblr.

45:58At that point, it was one year later, so I had a little more money. Tumblr, I might have invested in Tumblr after I did my first book deal. So I got some money from a book advance off a viral video on YouTube of a keynote speech. You got your first book deal from a viral video. That's right. I did not know that. Yeah, I don't really, you know, I don't say it that way because the truth is it wasn't even from the viral video. Let me say it a little bit different. Maybe the third speech I gave in my life was at the Javits Center. It was called Web Expo. I think it was 2008. And I went on stage, and I'll never forget this, I told two people that I was in the green room.

46:36I had never had this feeling in my stomach. It was like a mix between very nervous and very confident. I could feel I was feeling different. And so I said to Jason Freed from 37 Singles, great founder, and Fred Wilson, one of the iconic New York City VCs, I said, I'm about to go on stage and something very good or very bad is about to happen. I could feel it. And I went on there and I was in my Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy Raw, like I was in it. I was 11 out of 10 and I was spinning good shit. like all stuff that became true and by the time I went home back to the wine store when I say home the office like literally went back home because I was still working in Jersey even though this was in New York and I was living in New York I had three different emails from publishers that were in the audience wow I took meetings and I signed a very big deal with HarperCollins and then I wrote Crush It which changed the course of my life

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48:19Rated PG. And everyone references Crush It from back in the day. Yeah, Crush It, like, it's so humbling watching, like, the biggest creators and personalities. Like, just how many people talk about Crush It being the book that, you know, It was a multi-week, very successful New York Times bestselling book. If you read it now, you would shit. I predicted, right Matt, you just read it. It's crazy, right? I predict live shopping in it. It basically lays out the entire creator economy. It speaks about this, what's happening. You have to remember, you guys are all youngsters. There was no internet fame.

49:02when I went on Conan to do my wine thing in 2007 this is look at the goosebumps I don't know if you guys can see this this is real what I'm about to tell you it made the front page of Dig which was like that was like Reddit plus TikTok plus Twitter combined made the front page of Dig everybody from Perez Hilton who was one of like the only known bloggers when I every person on Twitter I was trending on Twitter everybody on the internet was cheering for me literally saying things like Gary V do it for us that's how small the internet personality community was in 2007 like it was a different time so that book in fact when I wrote that book I took a lot of heat people said I was a snake oil salesman there was like quotes on the internet things like this fucking asshole is trying to convince you that you're gonna make$50 ,000 a year on YouTube.

50:02Think about that. I know, I love your guys' reaction. Think about that. So, I'm very proud of that work. As I get further away from that work and as that work, that book, what I said in it becomes more and more true, it feels more significant to me in my history of my career more today than even three, four years ago because y 'all will go now look at that and like skim it and be like, Jesus, you know, I was 10 and he was like talking about like influencers and podcasts and live stream, like how? Because it didn't exist yet. By the way, Matt, I know you just read it. I don't say influencer or creator because the term didn't exist.

50:43Right? It's not referenced. Like the term didn't exist, bro. What did I say? People? Entrepreneurs? Entrepreneurs. Yeah. Yeah. You are very well known for making predictions. In fact, 10 years ago, you did an interview with Larry King that I watched, and he asked you what social media platform should we pay more attention to, and you said music.ly, not even musically at the time. So, what I wanted to ask for you with that is, why did you say musically back then, and what platform or thing should we pay more attention to now? Got very lucky, especially Larry King, so cool. So the answer to your question right now, if you're not paying attention, people should know what Substack is, but I would say it's the one that people are not using that a lot of people should be using.

51:41I would also say that Snapchat Spotlight. People use Snapchat. They don't use the TikTok, Instagram of Snapchat called Spotlight. I would say there's nothing else and oftentimes because I've been asked that question for the last 10 years the answer is nothing and I would argue the two things I just said are not new Snapchat's been around forever there's a nuance within it and again Substack should be known but I know a lot of people don't know it so I hope that helps if you're a writer and you just heard that I think I just did something really good for you so good luck go download it Musically had already happened like I'm always always paying attention and hoping something pops up again.

52:20Like I'm always watching. Musically it already happened. An extraordinary amount of 14 year old teenage girls were making videos. Yeah and boys. But even when Larry, it was really, really girls and then in 15 it was boys. Like I watched it and then I was like oh. Because you know, I am who I am. I knew Facebook started as college kids. So when everybody was saying to me you're wrong about Musically it's just teenage girls and I would tell like 40 year old businessmen you're gonna be on it one day. They're like, what are you talking about? I know how youth culture drives. It's the tail that wags the dog.

52:57And I'll tell you why I actually believed in it. It's because of Tumblr. Tumblr was the app I invested in that was based on following things you're interested in, not who you follow. Right? All of you, you guys are the right age, you were into like the art you liked or the photos or the skateboarding. Like you were into a subject, not a person. and I call that the interest graft in my head people not social media interest media when I saw musically I'm like wait a minute you don't need followers you're posting and people that are into dancing or cooking like the content's finding the audience and then I was became aware of what was going on in Asia and what was going on with TikTok I'm like this is it and then obviously TikTok bought musically to continue that process and here we are yeah a lot of time has passed since you've said that.

53:50And you've talked about for content creators to not be emotionally attached to content, but my question is oftentimes, as creators or artists, income can be predicated on views, on engagement. Because of this, would you recommend to build businesses and income outside of views and engagement as creators? Yes, if you're capable. The problem is creators and influencers have become synonymous with entrepreneur, and it's not true. Interesting. And vice versa. Okay. And this is where I think I'm part of a smaller subset. I am both creator and influencer and entrepreneur. I was entrepreneur first. I didn't become creator until I was 30, which is wild to think about.

54:34I didn't have even the ability to. The platforms didn't exist. I would love anybody that has 100 ,000 followers for their get ready with me makeup stuff or skateboarding or video game. I would love for them to be capable to start a business selling skateboard equipment or swag or a coffee that they want to start like Emma Chamberlain did, right? I'd be pumped if people could do that. I just know it's hard. Like 99 % of businesses fail. I would love people that can start businesses, people that are selling$15 million of mittens or of deodorant or of sneaker souls that they invented. I would love for them to be great at content creation because it will drive their business.

55:21I'm just aware that both of them are profoundly important skills that are rarefied air and it's hard to be both. You're talking about attention being the main asset. Once someone actually, a lot of creators develop a skill of getting attention, using hooks, making content. Once they get attention, what do you think they should do with it? Is it just about continually? That's a great question. my preference is for them to build depth with their audience okay this is great this is great how do you build depth with your audience talk to them by loving them by caring about them more than what they give you I will tell you the biggest reason almost this is actually profoundly fun to say everybody the number one reason it's not happening for you and that's pretty much everyone like almost everyone especially under 25 right now 22 everyone's taking a stab at trying to be famous the reason it's not happening for you is everything you put out is in your own self-interest.

56:17I want to get followers from this. I want to get money from this. I want people to like me because of this. You give absolutely no thought to what's in it for them. I want to look beautiful. I want to seem cool. How does, I want to take a picture on my left side because I look more handsome that way. Like, everything's about you. I know the reason I got here. I, every single piece of content from that first wine review, when I sat down and I drank that wine and I like sat just like this I remember it like yesterday all I thought about was I'm gonna taste these wines and I'm gonna teach them and tell them the truth that was the wild thing I did this is the wildest thing I did was my best friend who was running the business with me my cousin who was running the business with me and my father literally thought I lost my mind because in episode four or five I'm tasting a wine that we sell that is literally downstairs stacked to the ceiling.

57:12And I'm like, this wine's crap. It's thin, it's off balance. And they saw it because they thought I was doing QVC. But you weren't selling. But I, by the way, the first time I thought about it, I thought I was doing QVC. I'm like, oh, let me make videos to sell wine. And something happened. I mean, I'm looking at it right now, that little red button. The first time, I'm like, wait a minute. What if I tell them I like this and I don't? like it became very real very fast and I was trained to bring value my obsession was to make the world like enjoy wine more you know this probably all of you know this wine's funny like if you have a buddy who knows wine they're like a douchebag about it like oh you don't know you don't want to smell it and I loved wine but none of my friends did it actually wasn't the era like it's crazy you guys won't even know this for all of you there was nobody 20 years ago under the age of 40 that liked wine.

58:09Maybe if you were in a very rich family and it was in the culture, but not normals like us. You know what I mean? It was just like, no way, beer, no way. And I wanted kids my age to like wine too. I mean the show selfishly at some level and I wanted to make wine cooler. I wanted to de-undouchify wine. I wanted to give people to try different wines because there were so many different wines to taste. it was all about them bro and then when I started talking about business it was all about them you can get famous on the internet you can start a business you don't have to hate your nine to you know and this was the early stuff even before you might have even caught me it was like you don't have to fucking unstable, scan and staple this internet thing is gonna give us an opportunity and that is why now look some people bring value because they're a fucking smoke show and people like looking at them, they're hot.

59:08Some people are funny as fuck. Some people are super intelligent and it's like nerdy. Some people are really good at reviewing music and people, we enjoy their perspective on it. Some people can interview well. Value comes in a lot of different form, but are you a value in giving it or are you looking to extract and you want the riches from it? Even that being the case for longevity purposes, to be in this industry for a long period of time, would you say that storytelling is the most important thing? No, but I think I understand what you're saying. I think it can be one of them. I think storytelling is a remarkable skill that can keep you very, very relevant, right?

59:49Especially if you can tell net news stories. If you're Steven Spielberg, like, you know, like, yes. I would say value. And like, value comes in different, like, I can speak for myself. Five years, I was just bringing value to America about buying better wines for cheaper prices. making wine fun. You know what was a big one? Having a lot of young kids find something to do with their father. That was huge. I mean, here it is again, the goosebumps. The amount of people that have emailed me in my life, young women, was a big one. Hey, I want to thank you. Your show gave me and my father something we both liked.

1:00:26He was a sports guy, I wasn't into it. He was always with my brother but we connected over Wine Library TV and I just want you to know that meant something to me. Like, you know, that was value. Other people became sommeliers because it was value. I did that for five years. Then I started talking about business Gary, right? My value then was do this. Do these ads. Set up this account. Post, it was very detailed. Very specific advice. That was three, four years. Then I realized nobody was doing it, even though I was making all this content, getting millions of views. I'm like wait a minute insecurity mine's perspective that I started bringing value of like your life can be good now I get emails and stopped by people that are like you saved my life you got me out of alcohol like you know like value you know some people love me because I got them to collect Pokemon cards again because I talked about that in 2018 and 19 like these cards are coming back that was value I get emails every day from 48 year olds saying you brought joy back into my life I jumped on it because I thought I could make a couple bucks now it's the thing I collect with my son and I have happiness where I started a card shot.

1:01:40People, back to music, people email me saying thanks for putting me on to Gunna early. That's real emails in my inbox. I had Gunna in the office early on in this career. I had a whole range. I was doing unsigned hype freshman 15 for like four years of my career. Had unlimited on the come up artists. People have said value comes from and a lot of different things. So I wouldn't say it's storytelling. I think it's bringing value. Do you think you can build depth with the audience through online platforms that are there? Do you think you should take them off? I'd prefer to take them off. Where would you put them?

1:02:18Meetups. In person, IRL. IRL. I love IRL. Zooms. Everybody here who's trying to build something should definitely do their next post saying there's a link in my bio to a Google Hangout next Thursday. I'm gonna be on from nine to midnight come and hang out with me and ask questions. Everyone should do that. They will build depth. You know this I think because you've done the research. You know I replied to every single tweet I got from 2007 to 11. I built my entire career on depth. In fact the follow up book to Crush It that I wrote that was also a New York Times bestseller was called The Thank You Economy.

1:03:00Like good old fashioned 1950s principles. thank you, you're welcome, hello, shake your hand, look in the eye, aka give a fuck about the other person. Reply to every comment. Do you know how many people are trying to grow brother and don't even reply to the comments or DMs they get and they have seven of them? We've gotten to such a level of entitlement and selfishness that you have people that are desperately trying to become the next Cindy Sweeney, the next King Batch, the next Marcelo Hernandez, and they get nine comments on their little skit and they don't even say thank you.

1:03:42You've said in the past that every time you post on social you're trying to win. Yes. What, does winning mean providing value? Yes. How do you, so you provide value when you think about the audience and giving them. I'm going to say it again. I do not even know how to post something. By the way, I don't post about my private life. You know that. Like, I don't think that's valuable. Here I am on a boat. You know this. I've done well in my life. You guys know this. I don't know if you know who I am or probably. You're not gonna see pictures of me and be like, here's my Rolex. You don't see me on the private plane.

1:04:23I'm not trying to flex on anyone. I do not understand anything other than value. I think it's the most tried and true thing that people can do and I think people should do more of it. And by the way, I'm gonna say this because I'm a little bit too absolutism. It's okay to sell. You're allowed to do, first of all, who the fuck am I? I'm not God. You can do whatever the fuck you want. I'm just talking about what is sustained. I'm answering your questions. How do you build? How do you be sustainable? How do you be long-term? You bring value. Or you have some hits. I mean, in music, it's wild. You have a good run, you can play on those 13 songs for the rest of your life.

1:04:59Even one, it's epic. That's why I love music. I'm pumped for people. One Hit Wonders can live forever. It's different kind of venues. You gotta have some humility. You used to do stadiums and now you're in a lodge. But those 40 people on that one hit will fucking bang it out word for word and that feels good. You work with a lot of different brands. Have you ever had frustration when brands you work with don't follow your advice?

1:05:31I'm gonna give you some flowers. I'm really proud of you asking that question. That is a question that I've really not been asked a lot. And it's a really funny answer. You ready? I don't think I have a client yet, 15 years in, that fully listens to my advice. Wow. How about that? One thing that won't make sense to you guys, because you live with Gary Vee on the internet, and this is Gary Vaynerchuk on Madison Avenue with the biggest companies in the world, they still don't fully believe in social media. Still. Yeah. Like you have no, most biggest companies that you know, Nike, spends more on billboards and direct mail than social media.

1:06:20Like, the biggest companies you guys know.

1:06:27That being the case though, you have never done a sponsorship with social media. That's right. Why?

1:06:40Value a little bit. Jab, right hook kind of thing. Well, the jab, jab, jab thing is for everyone. I wrote a follow-up after Thank You Connery. It was called Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook. Give, give, give, and then you can ask. I'm not scared. I'll give a plug right now. WineText.com. I want everybody to buy their wine from my dad. I also think Wine Text is the best way to buy wine. It's like really good deals once a day on text. But I, yeah, I mean, I have not gotten an offer that is lucrative enough. First of all, I would never pitch something I don't believe in. Yeah, yeah. Now, by the way, I don't judge influencers who do.

1:07:20I just am in a place where I don't have to. I can afford to not, like I've had plenty of things like, We'll give you$500 ,000 to post this. I'm like, that's toxic, like, diarrhea stuff. Like, I'm not doing that. Like, you know, so I don't have to. Comma, I would, like, let me think of a good one. Captain Crunch cereal. I love Captain Crunch cereal. If Captain Crunch said, hey, we'll give you$3 million and we gotta do something really creative, not like a post and like me, like, meh. You know, like something cool. Maybe like a wine event, pairing Captain Crunch with wines and like something that got me going.

1:07:58I'm not against it. I just don't look for it. Say no to everything. And I do business in a different way. But you know what's funny? You catch me at a time where I am starting to get weird offers where like people want me to be like in a national commercial and on billboards. And that's kind of funny to me. So I'm like hoping like a B2B company, like something boring to you guys like Adobe or like, you know, when you're like in the, you guys know when you go on an airplane and there's all those, the signage on the, because I fly so much, I'm like, I'd do that. I'd be like, hey, it's me. VaynerMedia uses Salesforce.

1:08:32I would do something like that. Something a little dorky that is really just an inside joke for me, myself, and I. You talked about how you didn't do a lot of vacations back in the day. Yes. And me personally, I took my first ever vacation in seven years. I just got back from it now. Nice, good for you. Where'd you go? I went to London and Paris with my brother. That's awesome. It was really great. Got to see family out there. Oh, that's awesome. Good for you. That being said though, part of me feels like the pull because I had to miss the Oscars. I had to miss South by Southwest. Those types of things and taking vacations and having that pull and dichotomy.

1:09:16What's your advice on that? I don't struggle with that. I like taking vacations. But to your point, I don't take them when there's things like that. I don't take them during Super Bowl when that's a business thing for me. I love late August because the whole world shut down. I work my schedule. I also have two children so there's a lot of the school dynamics or some of that. But yes, in general, I don't take vacations when the world is active. I love the last two weeks of the year. You know that Christmas, New Year's. I'm obsessed now with the last two weeks of August because America's become a little like Europe and we're kind of bougie and just chill in those last two weeks.

1:09:52I love a good Thanksgiving week because Americans have gotten soft and we don't even really work on Tuesday or Wednesday let alone Thursday and Friday so it's like kind of the world is only really on on that Monday so I'm like that's awesome and actually in fact I just said to myself you know what I'm gonna do better next year on the four day weekends I'm a work on the four day weekends guy Columbus Indigenous or Presidents or like I never do that Monday Tuesday thing but I want to next year. I want to be able to spend some more time with family on that four day weekend and work it in. I'm working so hard, so effectively, so productively most of the year.

1:10:32I want to find more pockets but I would struggle given that I have so much responsibility to do, to your point, a random week because my problem is if I take next week off do you know what happens in my life? I come back to a disaster. so I'm stressed the whole fucking week that I'm off that I'm coming back Monday and I'm dead I missed every day at school because there was nothing to come back to this is awesome by the way if I worked somewhere I would take off all the time but for me because I'm at the top and I'm the entrepreneur and I'm the owner and the operator and I have responsibility and I could be on call anytime like God forbid something terrible could happen like our building could have a fire in our Thailand office like I'm never really off I'm in firefighter mode so what's nice about let's say the week before labor day is when i am off that week even if i'm checking it just a little bit there's only so little that's building up because everybody else is chilling in fact if we can all put our hands in right now eight billion of us all in the pot everyone put their hands out that the whole world is on vacation in july i'd be I'm pumped.

1:11:41Pumped. Fuck it, July and August. I'd be pumped. Like, ready? Three day work weeks, fine by me. It's just that I can't be off when it's on because it's a heavy cost. That makes sense, yeah. You said something that was really interesting during one of the interviews. You said you're trying to become one of the greatest entrepreneurs of all time. My question is, is how do you know when you've done that? I will never know. it'll be subjective. I do not believe making the most money makes you that. I don't think Elon or Bezos or Zucks are that. Though all of those guys have created profoundly interesting companies.

1:12:22You know, the way I think about that is I'd like to inspire the most positive entrepreneurial behavior of all time. Back to the sandcastle. I would like to create the most entrepreneurs or help the most entrepreneurs and help them from a mental health and lack of anxiety and enjoying entrepreneurship the way I do, comma, I'd also like to build some of the biggest businesses of all time. If I build VFriends into Disney or Pokemon, I'm in the mix, you know, like especially with all the other stuff. So, you know, I want to challenge myself like the game. How good of a skier am I? How good of a skateboarder am I?

1:13:00How good of a video game player am I? How good of basketball am I? It's that me versus me thing. And then I think I've been a pretty bright voice in entrepreneur, I think I'm unique in the last 15 years of entrepreneurship. I think I do talk about things differently, subtly, and I'm proud of that. And there's others that do too. But I feel happy with the deposit that I've put into the world. And I'd like to do more of it. And I think, you know, unfortunately, I feel like what I preach is needed even more now than five years ago. And I'd like it to be the other way. I'd like the world to get a little less anxious and a little lighter.

1:13:34But, like, I feel a sense of responsibility of talking about love and hope and optimism, but you know me, accountability. I'm not here to coddle. It's not charity. There's a reason there's something called charity and there's a reason there's something called entrepreneurship and they're different. I also feel like it's interesting for VFriends specifically to go the similar route of Pokemon and Disney. Because kids connect with what they are kids and when they get older it becomes nostalgic. Yes. And I think that that is incredibly smart because you You said, I've always believed that nostalgia is one of the greatest assets of our time and I think that you've said that in the past.

1:14:14It's very interesting of how you're going about it and I think once the stories of all these individual characters come across, I think that's where you're gonna be connected. That's why the comic, if you're a comic fan or if you're into anime or manga or nerd culture, please, please go to VEEFriends, vfriends.com slash comics. You'll see how I'm starting to develop it By the way, back to you liking music, I'm about to tell you the coolest thing that's about to happen in my career. People don't think of me as a creative. Not an influence, I am inherently very creative. These comic books, these origin stories, I'm a real storyteller.

1:14:51Really not seen to the world, more in my family. I'm excited about it. I think people that are into comics culture or character development, when they read these comics, I think they'll be impressed, and I think they'd be stunned of how much of it comes out of here. Speaking of not being seen as a creative, do you have any advice for anyone out there who wants to be a creative? Well, I mean, it's practice. Again, I think self-awareness is huge. I think one of the reasons there's so much anxiety in the world is a lot of people want to be what they want to be, not being self-aware of who they are.

1:15:24Listen, I want to be the quarterback of the New York Jets. Let me be very clear. I want to be, I want to be the quarterback of the New York Jets. I am not the quarterback of the New York Jets, right? And so I think that, you know, if you want to be a creative, let's start with what I grew up with, which is closer to the music stuff. And now we're in the entrepreneurial era. When I was growing up, kids wanted to be rock stars. Yes. They wanted to be rock stars bad. And I listened to a lot of bad music in middle school and high school of my buddies who thought they were going to be fucking Axl Rose.

1:16:02And then hip hop started to really come or Dr. Dre or Snoop Dogg. Pop stars. Yeah, definitely pop stars were so big. Michael Jackson, Prince, Madonna. I mean, they were the OGs and then into Britney and all the boy bands of the late 90s. And then how it's happening with entrepreneurship and influencers. People want to be an influencer. People want to be an entrepreneur. Here's what I would say. If you're creative and you're listening and you're shy, which means you're potentially insecure about people's judgment about your paintings or your drawings or your music I don't know like like fucking Mark Twain it like hide behind AI I don't know I don't give a fuck like get your shit out get your shit out create an account that is not even looks like it's you just post it if you feel so bad if people think it's dumb or stupid it, hide, but fucking get it out.

1:17:02And then you'll unhide once you realize there are people that like it. But if you're delusional in your creativity, listen to the audience. The audience is the only one that's right, not even you. Do you think there's a point where you're early and the audience may not be the right audience hasn't found it? Yeah. That's called conviction and patience. Sure do. I sure do. I think conviction and patience. you know but I think there are many people that are still putting out rap songs on SoundCloud nine years later and they still can't break a thousand listens it's like hey man like there is a place and by the way if you enjoy doing it as a hobby that's amazing but if you're like literally telling your boys like you're the next Drake like and we all see that right like you gotta get out of delusion you know optimism's amazing delusion's a vulnerability What was your favorite personality?

1:17:54Behind the Wall. That was a good one, right? You like that? That was a bar, right? I agree. Behind the Wall was, started with the goal of inspiring every underdog to go for it as someone who was making videos in their room with an iPhone, recording their laptop screen, made 5 ,000 videos before having the first interview. I got to interview some of my musical heroes like Ryan Tedder, Coldplay, Benny Blanco. And now having the chance to talk to one of the first people who was like, go post on TikTok, is so incredible. And I'm so grateful for this opportunity. I wanted to start something new. Okay, nice.

1:18:31I don't have a name for it yet, but I bought a paper, like a brick. A brick? And what I want to do is I want to start a thing where whenever I get a studio in the future, maybe not, maybe just in the home, for the people that I interview, I want them to leave a quote, like a message, a piece of advice, and then sign it. Thank you, I'm humbled.

1:18:57This is the actual wall. The name of this is the actual wall. Not behind, fuck man, I'm actually strong these days. This is heavy. I have Sharpie or markers. I'll go Sharpie. I'm gonna go with green. That is my color. Oh, this is white? What's going on? What's going on here? Let's go, okay, no worries.

1:19:36I wrote always say maybe. Something I've been thinking a lot about recently. I believe that the world is now filled with unlimited people that say no to everything. That cynicism is having a very good run. And I hate cynicism. And I think fear and insecurity and judgment and envy and jealousy are leading so many people to know. And I would say to everybody who's listening, especially now I'm getting more of a sense of you, I'm pretty excited about this because I have a sense there's a group of people that listen to this show because of you that were similar to where you used to be or things of that nature.

1:20:16You at some point said maybe. Right? Yeah, yeah. Right? There's no way we're sitting here without it. and I would just say that everybody is saying no to things. I'll give a good one, especially looking at some youngsters. Do you know all of you, all of you, were scared to ask someone out or hit on someone or say what's up to someone and actually one of those people would have said yes and that is now lost and if you would have said maybe and did it, yeah, you'd have some memories of a bunch of rejections but they would be all offset by the memory of the one yes. Saying maybe with the hope of yes versus saying no, which means immediately it's a loss.

1:21:03Saying no is an immediate loss. Saying maybe is just stories over beers when you're old. More importantly, it leads to the best yeses of your life. Always say maybe. I love it. Thank you so much, Gary. Thanks for having me. Such a pleasure. Congrats. Thank you. Hey, everybody, if you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention. And thanks for being part of this journey. See you later.