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Podcast Notes: Howard Lutnick's Emotional Journey | The GaryVee Audio Experience
Episode Overview
- Podcast Title: The GaryVee Audio Experience
- Episode Title: Howard Lutnick's Emotional Journey | #1 of 2024 Top Podcasts
- Hosts: Gary Vaynerchuk, Mike (Team Gary V)
- Guest: Howard Lutnick, CEO of Cantor Fitzgerald
- Release Date: New Year 2024
Key Themes & Discussions
Introduction
- Gary introduces the episode and expresses excitement to share Howard Lutnick's journey from personal tragedies to becoming a prominent Wall Street figure.
Howard Lutnick’s Background
- Tragic Early Life: Howard recounts losing both parents at a young age (mother at 16, father at 18) due to tragic circumstances.
- Struggles with Family: Describes the isolation and challenges faced after losing his parents, including financial instability and familial disconnection.
Turning Point in Howard's Life
- Support from College: Howard shares how Haverford College stepped in to support him during his time of need.
- Responsibility for Siblings: He took on the responsibility of caring for his younger brother, navigating life as a college student while managing family obligations.
Lessons from Adversity
- Living Life Fully: Howard reflects on the lessons he learned from his mother's approach to life, emphasizing the importance of joy and living in the present.
- Perspective on Complaining: He discusses how personal loss shaped his view on complaints, arguing that many people complain about trivial issues instead of recognizing the value of life.
Journey to Wall Street
- Early Career: Howard describes his entry into Wall Street, starting with a summer job and impressing his boss with his proactive approach.
- Networking: Emphasizes the importance of relationships and networking, illustrating how he used energy and kindness to connect with influential figures in the industry.
Key Achievements
- Significant Deals: Howard recounts a major investment in Burlington Northern that earned his firm significant profits, showcasing his ability to identify lucrative opportunities.
- Leadership at Cantor Fitzgerald: After years of hard work and proving himself, he eventually becomes the president of Cantor Fitzgerald.
9/11 Tragedy
- Impact of 9/11: Howard shares the harrowing experience of the 9/11 attacks, losing many colleagues and friends, including his brother and best friend.
- Survival: He describes the chaos of the day, including his narrow escape from the collapsing towers, and the emotional toll it took on him and his family.
Reflection on Life and Business
- Lessons Learned: Howard discusses how his experiences have shaped his approach to business and life, focusing on resilience, the importance of relationships, and the value of living fully.
- Future Aspirations: Howard expresses a desire to continue building a positive legacy, emphasizing the importance of surrounding oneself with good people.
Key Takeaways
- Resilience: Howard's story is one of overcoming immense personal loss through resilience and determination.
- Relationships Matter: Success in business often derives from building and maintaining strong relationships, not just technical skills or intelligence.
- Live Each Day: The importance of living in the moment and finding joy amidst adversity is a central theme in Howard's narrative.
Conclusion
- Next Episode Teaser: Gary concludes the episode, indicating that there will be a second part to Howard's story, promising further insights into his remarkable journey.
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This markdown file provides a detailed summary and insights from the podcast episode featuring Howard Lutnick, highlighting his journey and the lessons learned from his life experiences.
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Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Gary V. Audio Experience. I'm Mike from Team Gary V. and today I'm especially excited to share with you an episode of the podcast. In this one, Gary sits down with Howard Lutnick, CEO of Cantor Fitzgerald. Howard's journey from personal tragedy to becoming one of Wall Street's most prominent figures is nothing short of inspiring. In this episode, we'll explore the lessons he learned from building a multi-billion dollar firm to overcoming adversity and leading through some of the darkest moments in our nation's history. I hope you all enjoy this episode.
0:33make sure you come back tomorrow to listen to the second part of this incredible conversation. Enjoy. My parents died when I was young. Mom, when I was 16, dad at 18. So that sort of starts the process. You lose one parent, it's one thing. You lose the second parent, it's a whole nother thing. Family pulled out. You think, okay, all the uncles and aunts are going to come jump into your rescue. No, no, no. They were afraid we'd be sticky. You know, they'd invite us over and we'd never leave. So at my dad's funeral, my dad gets killed September. So my mom dies of cancer, Long Island classic, Long Island breast cancer.
1:08Dad has cancer, goes in for his first chemotherapy shot. We had no money, so we went to the local hospital. A nurse makes a terrible mistake, gives him someone else's dose and kills him on the table. Jesus. September 12th, 1979. Okay, so at my dad's funeral, September 15th, my dad's brother says, hey, you wanna come over for Thanksgiving? I'm like Isn't that like November? Why aren't you worried about how I'm going to eat Say tomorrow night? He's like just let me know if you want to come over Never spoke to the guy again Guy didn't care My sister's 20, I'm 18, my brother's 15 Three of us That's it, on her own Not really any money, sell the house Just try to figure it out And that's how we start the world So my college takes care of me Yeah steps up in a crazy way and says we want you to come back because i was dropping out take care of my brother dropping out gonna run like my dad's travel business he had a travel agency like he would run his travel business like i have any clue at the end of 18 like i don't even know what a check looked like right my favorite thing was uh the only checks i'd ever seen were my mother's checks they had like a sunset on them yep so i thought yeah you get a sunset check yeah and then one day i was sitting with one of my friends and he had like a regular blue checkbook i was like What's that?
2:22What do you get those? Like, I got this little sunset thing. I got boats. And so Haverford, small school in Pennsylvania, calls me and says, listen, come back. We want you to come back. We got you. And we got you. And they went back. So I ended up having the life I was going to lead. I put my brother in a boarding school. Yeah, I was going to ask you where did he... And he lived with me on the weekends. So he was with me on the weekends. And he's 15, turning 16, trying to pick up chicks. You want to talk about learning life fast, being 15 on a college campus every weekend. So he's sleeping in my dorm room and trying to pick up chicks on the weekend.
2:57Just to bounce around a little bit, you know, in hindsight, that's a lot to go through. You know, it's really interesting. I've always, you know, since we've gotten to know each other in more recent times, like there's a kind of instant connection you have with people. I am very fortunate that that did not happen to me, but I would argue my parents losing parents at a very, very young age was foundational in how I see life. I grew up my entire childhood fearing my parents' death. And I mean, not like normal people, who like, it crosses your mind. I mean like, it was the major backdrop conversation I had with myself my whole life.
3:35My mom lost her mom at six in the Soviet, my parents grew up in the Soviet Union. So like, let's start that. Like, you know, and then my dad lost his dad at 16. And it was just a huge currency in my whole life. My mom lost her dad when she was 21, too, so she, like, very quickly was down to zero. And my grandma, my mom, my dad's mom, was around a part of my life. But it's interesting. Even though I wasn't the affected of it directly, it was a huge factor in how I see life. Of the three of you, how did you all take that moment? Well, my mother, they gave her six months to live. And she lived years.
4:14But she lived like a tornado. She was like, really? I get six months? let's go and she'd go to india and just blow out and come back two weeks later walk in the door and start yelling at me that i didn't do my homework i'm like hey where you been and it was like war zone but every once in a while like i'd be sitting in school and the vice principal would come over and go harry harry pull me out it's classic or what is it he goes it's your mom and so i go running outside and she's in the car and i'm like what are you okay you're okay because she had terminal cancer she's gonna die she goes yeah let's go and we go to the city we go to art galleries right Then she'd take me to the opera, right?
4:48And then after the opera, we'd go get bombed at the local bar, right? And I mean blitzed, and I'm 15 years old, and I'm blitzed out of my mind. And then we'd drive home to Long Island where we lived, what I called rodeo. Roll down the windows, right? Woo-hoo! And just because she wasn't worried about dying. And I guess she wasn't worried about me dying either, which is little. And by the way, kids, just to give you context of this era, no seatbelts either. No, no, no. Just so everybody understands. This was real rodeo, baby. Real rodeo. And let me give you something else that was happening on that highway as they drove from New York.
5:22Like throwing the McDonald's out the window. That's how we disposed. It's crazy to think about some of the social norms of the 70s and early 80s. Anyway, nonetheless. So that was it. So I learned to live. Live every day. So let me give you a hint. Today is the joy of life. Right here. 100%. Right now. This is it. You know, never be depressed. I had non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. I had cancer. and people would say, how are you? I'd say, I'm good, because every day I'm alive. I'm going to make sure I'm happy and I'm living my life, because this is the joy. You don't, my view, I learned it from my mom, you don't die.
5:56You lose the joy of living. I believe in that shit, brother. My relationship with complaining is built on this thesis. Listening to what people complain. Dad, don't be mad at me. I know you always say, like, you give mom all the flowers and you razz me, but this is true. There was one time that I got pushed so far with my dad being upset about dumb shit that I said to him, you know, dad, and this is just for context for everyone who's listening, after a million things my dad has said in his life that he's complaining about, in business normally, my dad is funny with business. He takes everything personal.
6:30I take nothing personal. So you can imagine our convos. But finally, there was one time and I said to him, I said, dad, I really wish something bad happened to our family just so you'd have something actually worth complaining about. That's how visceral I am to complaining. based on this thesis. Everybody complains about dumb shit, and then something happens in their life that's worth complaining, and they get really reset. Correct. So I learned how to live from my mother. Yeah. And then, so I was always focused on living, because I learned it. I learned it when? When I was 16. Yeah. You know, and so...
7:00Formidable years. A lot happens in 14 to 18. So when my dad got killed, and the second one, you lose the second one, you're in hell. You're literally in hell. It smells like hell. Did you guys sue the hospital? It tastes like hell. I didn't know what the hell to do. Yeah. I mean, you know, my sister's 20, I'm 18. I didn't know what to do. And it was a disaster. Yeah. Everything about my life that day was a disaster. The lawyers stole our money. It was everything. Like you have kids with no one protecting them. And you just get shredded. Okay. You just got shredded. I didn't have any money to begin with.
7:31And whatever little money we had was shredded. Yep. Okay. So me, my sister, my brother, we just live. Was your sister in college at that point? So my sister was in college. So basically he goes to boarding school near me, lives with me for one year. She graduates, goes to grad school, and then she takes him, and she goes to Syracuse grad school. She gets a JDM MBA, and he lives with her and graduates from the public high school right by Syracuse. So he just goes to the public high school, and then he just wants to be me, my brother. He just decides he wants to be me, and so he joins. He goes to Wall Street because I was working on Wall Street at the time, and then eventually joins me.
8:10but that's the thing about my story is I was really focused I really understood things and there's lots of stories about how I made it but I got all the way to the top of the world yeah let's before we go getting top of the business world and things of that nature take me back prior to these incredibly challenging events prior to that five you know when I think about my professional career so much was happening at five seven nine eleven thirteen that I now look and be like, oh, this shit makes sense. Of course I fuckin', when it snowed and everybody wanted to make a snowman, I'm like trying to convince Robbie Turnick or Eric Godfrey or Andy Greco or one fuckin' kid in my neighborhood of like, let's grab a fuckin' shovel and ring every fuckin' doorbell in Edison, New Jersey.
8:54Like, of course it was in me. You know, obviously you had these traumatic and life-shaping events. And obviously you had a mentor in your mom that you just described about living. But your mom was there obviously in those years as well. were you that person at six nine ten and twelve before these adversities came what was seven or ten year old Howard I was always figuring out how to make money yeah always so I'll give you an example I would buy a pack of baseball cards yep okay and then I would take all the old cards yeah and I'd make new packs and some had one new card and some had three new cards and some had five new cards and I sold them you know so that when I sold out all these yep right when I sold them all out i made like 3x the pack but you took risk yep you know for two cents you might get five cards which is way better well you might get one and get blown out right and so and i would sell these cards and i of course sold t-shirts remember the famous ones with like the arrow i'm with you stupid yes like those i sold those i basically i did all these things i just hustled uh to make money all the time we used to have carnivals in my house or bad at school oh i was uh i was a square I was good at school.
10:03I played tennis, so I was serious sports, and I was good. My sister had fun and lived a good life, and my brother just lived through a world of shit with my family and health and stuff like that. Were you good at school because you were serious about tennis and you wanted to be on the tennis team, or school came natural to you, or you wanted to make somebody proud, your mom or dad, or something altogether different? I think it was, they had enough. They didn't need to deal with me. Okay, I didn't want them to have to deal with me. So I just had well enough. Your sister was having enough fun that you saw them dealing with her and you're like, fuck it, I just don't want them to deal.
10:41Yeah, and they didn't have to deal with me. So I was just like, you know, I just was fine. Okay, I was fine and you learn. How much did the neighborhood raise you? Like, did you play outside a lot? Forget about it. I don't mean like the 50s and the 40s, but like were you outside constantly? Yeah, where I lived until we moved in the sixth grade, you would just be on the street. You'd be playing football in the street. Everyone would pick the name of some Dallas cowboy or someone, right? I hope Joe Namath got a little bit of love in that area. And you'd yell car, right? That's how I played. Off the street.
11:18Cargo by. Sorry. So that's the way it always was. So, you know, and then we moved to like more suburban, suburban, you know where there was no one else on the street so they just rode a bike anywhere And then what you would do is you just ride your bike. Yeah, right And your parents didn't have any idea where you were no never knew and you just my mom My mom literally had no clue where exactly I was from 1982 to 1989 She knew I was in the general facility, but she would literally open the door and yell Yeah, like you like full fucking like out of a fucking, you know throwback sitcom would literally open the door and yell about lunch and then like the way it worked it was like out of a fucking wonder years episode she would yell and if we were more in the left direction towards eric godfrey then my sister's friend denise's mom would hear it and literally open her door and then she would yell if we were up top closer to robbie turnick's house robbie's mom eleanor would hear it and she would yell in case we were by bobby duffy's like it was like fucking crazy and I really genuinely believe that we're trying to blame a lot of things for where the anxiety and all this is But the over coddling of knowing everything about your kid every second of everything where they are We were growing up like I don't know fights and getting hit by a stick and like fucking Reconciling shit without parents was you were learning how to function My wife has never had a minute when my kids were younger than 18 where she didn't know where they were.
12:45Howard, I'll be honest with you. One minute, not even one minute. I'll be honest with you. I'm aware of how modern parenting last 30 years has been. How about the fact now that it extends way past 18? The amount of people I've met who have a fucking app on their 23-year-old to know exactly where they are physically at all times is fucked up. That's crazy. And it makes a 23-year-old feel like they're... No shit they're acting like they're five. No, fuck they suck at work. They're fucking zoo animals. They can't live in the jungle. They're fucking being tracked by their fucking 59-year-old parent.
13:20They're 24 fucking years old. They're on the payroll. They're being tracked. And then you're upset that they can't stand on their own two feet? No shit. You created a fucking bubble baby. I think the neighborhood's really shaped us. Fair. I didn't really think about that until just now. You're right. You're right. You're making my childhood where my parents, they had no idea who we were. And we just came back at night, right? When it was dark, I had to come back. I had to be at home within 20 minutes of darkness. Howard, there was a fucking thing on all our TVs when I was growing up that said, it's 10 p.m.
13:54Do you know where your children are? Howard, I just need everybody to understand this. Kids, kids under 30, if you're listening, listen to me. On television, which remember pre-internet, it was life. It's no phone, no internet. Television was life. 80 million people would watch an episode of MASH. At 10 p.m. there would be this public service announcement commercial in the 80s that would come out and be like, it's 10 p.m. do you know where your children are? Because sometimes they forgot that we hadn't come home yet. Be a parent, that's right. At 10 o 'clock, be a parent. Try to pay attention, be a parent.
14:30I mean, it's crazy. Anyway, I was just curious. Like I really do think the East Coast, and listen, the West Coast's got their skater, surfer version of this, but fucking 60s, 70s, 80s, New York, New Jersey, Long Island, just that outside, and it was just fucking rough. I just think, I really think until you get punched in the face, you're not fully a functioning real man, and I think that, and that's figuratively or - No, the bus, the bus was a war zone. War zone. War zone. You go on the bus, the bus driver, you know, my kids, they have no idea. We had war on the bus. You have a war on the back of the bus.
15:05When modern bullying became a thing the last 20 years, I was like, oh, this is sad, let me get up to date on this. When I dug under the hood, I'm like, oh, you mean every day of first to 12th grade? Like, it's just, we're in a very different era. And it's, by the way, what concerns me is it's so obvious. It's similar to what happened with the Roman Empire and every other empire. A lot of what Europe's shortcoming, Europe has amazing strengths, but a lot of its shortcomings, it's just sustained prosperity. It's hard to be hungry when you're fed. All right, so I graduated from college. And a friend of the family connects me with Bernie Cantor.
15:46And I get a job. Okay? And I get a job. But... Educate everybody. You know, in your own world, tell everybody a little bit about Bernie Cantor. 99 % of people are like, who's Bernie Cantor? So before I get a job, I have a summer job. And I get that summer job. A friend of my family gets me a summer job. and he puts me in a company that's on Wall Street. It's a brokerage company on Wall Street. I don't know anything about it, but it gets me a job. All my friends go to Europe for the junior year abroad and I go to work. So I get an apartment in the city by myself and I do like a summer sublet. I used to go to the Village Voice.
16:23And you look at a sublet in the back and the classified ads. I mean, people don't have any idea. You look at the newspaper. and I get this apartment and I go to work. What year is this? This is, I guess it's 80, 81. Kids, again, I love doing this for the audience. New York's a fucking shithole. Just so you understand 1981, 80 New York, it's the New York you think it is. Like all the kids that come and intern here that are still a little bit in a bubble, they're like, oh, New York is way less scary than I thought. 1980 New York was a fucking shithole. The city was bankrupt. It was a mess. This is right before the Reagan thing kicked in.
17:01This is like a tough New York. Yeah, it was fun. But you know, so I got a job and I'd go work there. And I had a summer job, but I stayed for the whole semester. So I worked there six months. And so I wanted to work. I didn't want to like look at it like a movie. I wanted to do the job. And so I pushed to do the job. And then - At that point, Howard, just to educate me, did the Wall Street gig, was that like, yo, you go here, you make money. Was the brand of Wall Street epic? Or like where was the brand of Wall Street at that moment? Epic. That was your way out. So when you had no money. Right.
17:35All the street kids in Brooklyn, the Bronx. It's like when you think of private equity now or the way to make big money. It was the way out. Right. So you just thought Wall Street. That's what I thought. So I was just thinking. But I didn't know. Like you said the word Wall Street. After that, I had no idea. Right. You knew that. I could have been anything. Right. Wall Street equals money. But you had no idea what the fuck was actually here. So you could have had the worst job or the best job. I was just rando. Whatever I did. So I got this job and I just wanted to do the job. And I figured out that the boss, right, just figure out how to get in with the boss.
18:09So I just figured out how to get in with the boss. I would write the boss notes saying, do this. This is happening. Did you know this is happening? This is happening. And at the end of my six months working there, the boss calls me into his office. He'd never spoken to me the whole frigging six months I was there. Never. I would send him notes You don't have to say fucking on this podcast Oh you can? Okay Just I can sense how hard I'm trying I'm trying I'm a guy in a suit I get it But I know who you are And I just want you to know That you found a very good place to be You can get away with all of it Go ahead Alright so then He doesn't talk to me at all The whole time And then he calls me in The last day And he takes his desk out And he's got every note I wrote Wow And he starts talking to me About this and this and this And this and this and this So it was really good Epic And then he offers me a summer job next year.
18:56Right. So I get a summer job next year. So I'm cool. I'm golden. And here's that big moment. I learned during those six months I was getting direct deposit, where they put the$250 a week that I was getting paid into direct deposit. They put it right in the bank. Yeah. Right? So when I go back to college, right, they send me the pay stub. And I'm like, no, no, no. I call the boss up. I said, no, no, I went back to school. You got to stop it. He goes, you coming back this summer? I said, yeah. He goes, ah, keep it. So I thought he was giving me 250 bucks. No, 250 a week. He kept paying me the whole semester.
19:34And when I got the second check, I went to the dining center. And I leaped onto the table. And I did the Hulk. I was like, yeah, I got 250 bucks a week, a week. 1980? I took girls out to restaurants. I took girls to restaurants. I bought gas for a car. I was like, the key. I was the king. Going to restaurants, 250 bucks with inflation in 1980 in the middle of nowhere, Pennsylvania. I'm surprised you didn't buy fucking restaurants. I mean, it was a lot of money. So it was, it was, so I was like the man, okay? Because I would buy all the beer for everybody. It was like fine. It was great. And then I went back that summer.
20:13So that company sells, buys a division from Bernie Cantor, okay? So Bernie Cantor is like this famous industrialist guy, famous Wall Street guy, rock star, largest collector of Rodin's in the world. You know, the thinker? Yeah. Like he's the man. There's a wing named after him at the Met. And he sells a division to these guys. These are just regular Italian guys. And they buy the company from him. And they invite me during that summer to work on that deal. So I'm sort of in the room like the young guy, like whatever, I'm just a young guy, but I'm a pet of the boss because he likes me now. right so Bernie Cantor sees that I'm a pet of his so they call me up and they offer me they say whatever he offers you when you graduate I'll pay you don't wow so they're offering me like 20 grand right so now I'm going to make 40 grand going to Canada again I need everybody to hear this 1981 or two whatever year we're talking about 40 grand real numbers yeah yeah that's real but it's like making 100 now it's like like a hundred but it's different and you know this because you definitely, you know this better than I do.
21:18But 100 now, with the way everything is played out, with all the money that was printed, like it's just, I just want everybody to know, it's a lot of fucking money at 22 years old in 1981. Go ahead. All right, so I walk into Cantor Fitzgerald. So I take the job there because they offer me double and I see this guy and he's a rock star guy. And how big is the brand Cantor Fitzgerald at this point in Wall Street? It's a great middle market guy. Meaning he's not Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley, but he's like the next level down. right it's respected yeah and it's the number one bond firm in the world okay so i go in there and i'm like a big swinger and i think they love me and uh you think i go see i'm a hot guy come on i gotta pay me double they love me and the guy says listen so they send me into the president's office who i've never met before yeah so he sits me down he goes listen uh we hired you because we hate the other guy and we knew you were his pet and we couldn't give a about you just get the fuck out of my office i love it so i walk in like i'm the big swagger right and i walk out like he just steps on my face and push me like and i'm like i've always thought i've always thought from afar and it's fun to say this to you now that your life would be a real movie i'm so pumped i really hope that scene is an epic scene because i was my ego was so big yeah and then i'm like Like, literally roadkill.
22:40Like, I'm the squirrel at the end. Like, I just got smashed. Actually, I wanna make this a learning moment for a lot of people. No bullshit, don't hyperbolize it. If you don't remember, you don't remember. But I'm just curious, real talk, how much did it crush you? Like, for real, for real? Kind of just for the afternoon, for a week? Or did you say, you motherfucker, I'm gonna have your job? Like, how do you handle it? Actually, no bullshit. I was just... Stunned? I was just crushed. Like, I didn't see it coming. You know, it was like, I'm like this. I got the view, I got the view, I got the view.
23:08And it just hits me like right from here in the side of the head. And I was like, why didn't you look that way? Like I had no idea what's coming. I was like total, total like slammed by a two by four in the head. And I was like wandering around. So I'm wandering around the firm. I felt like, you know, like, you know, what did I got a Seinfeld episode? I'm, you know, I'm just wandering around. I've got the Penske file. You know, like nobody cares about me. So I had to go find myself a job in the firm. Like literally, I walked around the firm, trying to find a job, and they're paying me 40 grand.
23:39They don't give a crap about me. I know I'm going to get fired, right? I'm just going to get fired. They just wanted to just mess with the other guy and screw, they didn't care about me. I was just, I was just dirt. Did you think about finding someone to latch onto, like a mentor, like a person that saw value in you? So this is the first lesson, okay? So you go into the trading floor, and the trading floor is just this vast, like football field with people, okay? And I said, all right, what the hell am I going to do? Like I'm lost. and what the hell am I gonna do? So I said, all right, first lesson, find the winner on the floor.
24:10And no one's helping me, okay? So no, I can't ask them who's the winner, who's this and that, find the winner on the floor. So I start walking around and I'm watching. Okay, so I pick a guy. Real quick, I apologize, Howard. Real quick, kids, again, this is the blessing that you don't realize you have. There's unlimited free fucking content on the internet that will teach you absolutely everything. And now with AI, you can ask it and get it in a nanosecond. This is literally an era where you have to like do what Howard's talking about like now everything is at your fucking fingertips Perfect can give you 97 answers.
24:42He could have DM the thousand firms and gone somewhere else No, he had to literally walk around a fucking football field and just look at humans Look at human beings and try to pick the winner Okay, so then I try to pick who's the winners right try to sense like who's the big dog in the room and who's the winner? And I walk up to him and I ask how long it take how long were you watching three days? two weeks, a month? No, no, no, no. An hour? Because if I didn't have a job within 48 hours, I thought I was fired. That's what you thought. Yeah, because this guy said, I don't give a crap about you.
25:09Right, so you're walking around in a daze for 30 minutes, you kind of calibrate, and you're like, fuck. I better get a job. Fuck. I better get a job. So I go in, and I'm just looking, and I find a guy who I think is a winner. Okay? I just pick, okay, that's a guy who's a winner. Because you can see other people are like, listening to him and stuff like that. So I walk up to him, and I say, what kind of coffee you like? and I just get them coffee. I go out and I just get them coffee. Another fun thing, kids, good news, coffees were like 12 cents back then. Didn't have any of this fucking bullshit$7 black coffee,$25.
25:40I just went to the coffee machine. There was no downstairs. There's no downstairs. There's no Starbucks. No, no, it was 1980s coffee. I thought you went downstairs to the fucking coffee vendor, like the hot dog guy and gave him a quarter and brought him a fucking black coffee. I found the coffee over there. I forget, it's Cander Fitzgerald's. I just brought them coffee. Okay, and then what I realized is some guys would treat me. So I started doing that. I picked like five people because I didn't know what to do. And I just would get them coffee. And I'd say, look, I'll do whatever you want. I'll do any chores you want, anything.
26:11Because I have nothing, right? I have nothing. So the only thing I have to give is energy. That's all I have to give. So I'd say, look, but you got to take care of me. And what some people would just walk by me the next day and they'd say, you know, black with sugar. They thought I was a coffee guy. Of course. And so, and then I dropped that guy. Yeah. Because he thinks I'm the coffee guy. I'm not the coffee guy. He's not in. And then I found someone who I liked. Okay? And he decided he liked me. So he said, sit down. Okay? Then I had a job. He'd sit down. He said, sit down. And then that was my job.
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26:42Rick Chapman. Rick? Rick Chapman. Rick. Rick Chapman. And Rick Chapman. So, and here's what he did. He said... Where did Rick live? Actually, in New Jersey. Because I mowed his lawn. Do you know what town? I'm a Jersey boy. I'm actually genuinely curious. I don't remember, Stan. Okay, no worries. Go ahead. I mowed his lawn. So he's in Jersey. I mowed his lawn once. Because he said, if you mowed my lawn, I'll do this for you. Because what happens is he became transactional. Yeah. Which is a fucking gift for you. Oh, it was everything. That was the greatest thing that ever fucking happened to you.
27:13Because what was I doing? I was buying an education in exchange for energy. That's great. Right? So I would mow his lawn. I'd pick up his dry cleaning. I'd get his car washed. But what he did was he called his best client. And he said, you go get your young guy. Pick your favorite young guy. I'm going to bring my young guy and we're going to go out to dinner. And he takes me out to dinner. And I tell you what, Rick, his client, when he was retired, called me up and said, you know, he sure could buy a steak. Right? Because he's buying it on his, you know, remember, you had a great expense account then.
27:43You go out to like really nice restaurants, buy really good wine. So he takes out me and the other young guy. So you must have loved it. Oh, yeah, loved it. But I knew, okay, there's a 23-year-old on the other side. he's mine okay i'm going to be his best friend love okay i'm going to be his best friend and i was just his best friend no matter what okay no matter what so i said to him when you trade someday you're going to trade because he's on a client it was called solomon brothers was bought by city bank so it's part of city bank and they were the best traders in the world i said when you trade you got to call me just ask for me just give me and i'm his best friend and i'm following around and buying beers and you know on saturday night and stuff i just go out with him like i'm his bestie and and that's when i learned to cut the line because what happened is on solomon brothers line the top guy rick okay he's got a mercedes yep right the next guy's got a chevy yep the next guy's online online online and when you went to mercedes you're going to be 46.
28:45right you're just online and this guy's gonna retire you blow up i'm up but i said to the 25 year old call me so he gets the he gets the call to start trading right and he picks up the phone to can if it's job which is the place you trade he says i want howard and this guy stands up and and this giant trading floor goes who the hell is howard and i'm like me me i'm out and i literally go running across the trading floor right and pick up the phone for peter hirsch okay and peter Hirsch does my first trade and I just blew past this guy and this guy and this guy. I'm now second or third in line, right?
29:27Well, I should have a Chevy, right? And I'm on his phone trading with Peter Hirsch because I worked him from the day I met him. He ends up becoming the boss of all trading at Salmon Brothers because he was a winner and that was lucky, right? But his favorite guy, he picked the favorite guy and I picked the favorite guy. You're talking about the single variable of business that people don't talk enough about. I have 45 Peter Hirsch's to your point of luck. I have 157 people that I thought were gonna be Peter Hirsch That didn't end up being Peter Hirsch, but net net here's a news alert You just need one or two let alone 45 correct so I had so I Just worked it so that he introduced me and then that created me cutting the line and other things I would do I go to I go to bar tonight with my friends, right?
30:13So I'm well dressed because I work on Wall Street and you go to the bar at night with your friends and I go to like Brother Jimmy's up east side. It's like your feet stick to the floor and I would walk around, find other people well-dressed and ask them where they worked and buy them a beer. And my friends were like, what are you doing? And I'd say, I don't know anybody. I need to meet people. I don't know anybody. So I'd meet a guy and he'd say he's in advertising. Are you any friends who work on Wall Street? He goes, yeah, yeah, Chuck works on, yeah, he works at Goldman. He goes, hey, Chuck, this idiot wants to buy us a beer if you say hello to him.
30:47And I'm like, fine, I'll just buy him a beer. So one of those happened. I met one of those guys. He worked at Lehman Brothers. By the way, every firm I talk about, I'm so old, they're all out of business. Like every firm is coming gone. But I'm 48 and I know all these items. When I was building the wine business, these were all my customers. So this guy works at Lehman Brothers. And that company that these guys bought from Bernie Cantor, it's going public. And Bernie Cantor is really interested in it. And Lehman's doing the deal. So I asked my friend who I met at Brother Jimmy's, just buying him a beer, I said, can you get me the early draft of the document?
31:23Because my boss would really like to read it. He says, well, you know, it's secret, but it's an early draft. I mean, it's not illegal or anything. It's just an early draft. The company doesn't want you to see them undressed before they're ready and all set to go. And so he drops it off to me at 6 o 'clock at night, says, I just need it at 6 a.m. in the morning. And I go to my boss's, Bernie Kennedy's house, and I give it to him. He goes, where did you get this? I go, I know people. Who did I know? I knew the one guy. I met him at Brother Jimmy's, but I bought him a beer. And that's how like Sir Bernie Kanter thinks, oh, this kid, he knows people, he's working.
31:56You know, I was always, I was always working. Energy's the right answer, Howard. You know, it's funny, I don't use that word, but it's the answer, right? Like when I think about that story from Kanter's angle, Like, it's who I was, and it's what I'm attracted to when I see it in others. It's not super complicated. It's what coaches appreciate in athletes. It's just fucking life. Like, effort is a fascinating variable in the game. It's just so goddamn obvious who fucking wants it. Yeah, so people think you need to be really smart to be successful. And what I say is you just need to be really clever.
32:36Yeah. Okay? If you're really clever. And I would argue that clever is, well, to your, but I would say that's semantics because what you're actually saying, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, and it's funny, I use clever a lot. I think you're talking about kind of like the way our, you know, we're in enough of a similar era. Like we grew up, unlike the kids today, where like what college you went to and what your grades were, were the binary indicator of your horsepower. And you and I grew up in a little bit of - That's just totally wrong. Brother, can you do me a favor? Actually, I really want, this would make me happy.
33:07You were good at school, but can you grab that top? Can you grab that? Are you transcript? This is my report card. I just want you to look at it while I say this, and then we'll go back to you. Like, I... It's bad. Yeah, show the ladies. You suck. Wow. Look at the bottom. Look at my class rank. I think it depends... That is hysterical. It depends on how you define smart, right? Right? Like, you know, for me, one of the things, you can put it anywhere, one of the things that was very obvious about this, and I want every kid to hear this, people skills, man, if you could tell me, can I be great at memorizing shit for a test to get an A, or have outrageous people skills, it's a fucking thousand to zero in the favor of people skills.
33:56Like, right? Like, it depends on what is smart. Clever, to me, is just slang for being smart about the actual shit that fucking matters. Humans. You're smart about people, which is what matters, right? So if you can get someone who's smart and clever... Game over. Then... Game over. That's what a billionaire is, okay? A billionaire just has both those things. They don't have... You can make huge amounts of money with one, and you're a professor with the other. Yeah. Right? If you're super smart, you're definitely a professor. Yeah. Okay? Because you're super, super, super smart, but you don't have the other parts.
34:31If you have both, oh, it's another one. Let's keep going on this story because this is a lot of fun. Where does the next tipping point happen in your career? I have an idiosyncrasy of my life, which is I'm a reader. Okay? I mean, I have to read the thing. I have to read the thing. It's now the bane of my existence. I mean, I can't sign the end of a document without reading every frigging word. This is probably why you were good at school, right? Because reading comprehension is such a variable in that game. And so you have very strong reading comprehension. Yeah, really strong. If I listen to something or see something, I will never forget it.
35:00if I read it it doesn't fucking even I have none so when I read the reverse when I read something it like goes something bad is in the document it comes on me like it's in it's physical when I read it it's physically on me so like I could be that's how I am and I'm angry like it's making me angry and someone's looking at me going why why are you so angry I go you should see what this says and they're like what what it says why would that make you angry I'm like the intent that's just the way it is so you know so i a friend of mine mentions something to me that there's this uh there's this railroad and and the railroad uh when the united states of america was being built in 1897 the united states of america decided they wanted to industrialize the country and it took by eminent domain it just took people's land and it brilliantly built the northern pacific railroad that went from the Atlantic to the Pacific and the Southern Pacific Railroad that went from the...
35:57And it just built railroads across the country. And the guy mentioned, he goes, you know, this land is probably worth a fortune. So I go to the library and you do microfiche, which basically was like a negative. And you put it on like a light box and you read it. I mean, now you just go to an iPad and look it up like this. But then you had to go dig it. So I dig up the deal. and I find that all this land, Union Pacific Station, Philly, Union Pacific Station, San Francisco, Chicago, and all the mineral rights going all across Montana all the way through, all this land is in this company called Burlington Northern.
36:36And they got it for free and they issued$150 million worth of bonds. And by the way, if you want to understand interest rates, in 1897, they issued 3 % bonds doing 100 years and 4 % bonds doing 150 years. So interest rates have been between 3 % and 4 % for frigging 130 years. So when people say, oh, aren't they so high? You're like, no. This is like ordinary. What about 1980 when you started your career? They were double digits. 12, 14, 16. So I go to Bernie Cantor. I walk into his office. So he doesn't really know me. But I'm just doing this stuff. How many years into Cantor are you? I'm 25. five so still fucking early as shit i go okay here's my idea here's my idea we take over burlington northern it's it's about four billion dollars okay then we we sell the railroad okay for like three billion and we'll lose a billion and then we'll have this all this land that i my genius 25 year old self who has done absolutely no work and hasn't called a single freaking person okay so i have no i say this land is easily worth four billion dollars okay because it's all this land the middle of rights four billion dollars and and we make three billion what do you say what do you think he says get the hell out of my office i'm listening to you so i keep every day i pound on him and ultimately he gives me two million dollars to invest so i buy these bonds interest rates are 12 percent and i and i buy them for like 63 cents on the dollar because three percent if you buy it cheaper the math is you get your 12 percent okay because you bought it cheaper and they go up in value over time so whatever so i buy two million dollars worth but i'm not the only one who knows this the chairman of burlington northern announces he's going to retire and he's going to take the land out of this trust which i read about okay and he's going to put 300 million in u.s treasuries in and take the land out okay but i read the documents and i know what the what the documents say and i also when i was planning this I called all the bondholders.
38:41I knew every bondholder's name because I wanted to control the land to do this whole deal with Bernie Cantor that I made up on my own. And no video, so no one knows it's a 25-year-old making the calls, right? So then I say he can't do it. So I call all the bondholders and I say, give me your proxy. I hire a shithead lawyer, okay? I don't know anybody. I hire some lawyer and we write a snarky letter to Burlington Northern saying you can't take the land. It's in trust. You just can't touch it. General Counsel of Burlington Northern calls me on the phone. He says, what do you got? I go, I got$2 million worth of bonds I bought at 63 cents.
39:17He goes, all right, here's the deal. I'll give you$2 million. You keep your frigging bonds. I want to take the land. And then because you're going to put treasuries behind it, the bonds are going to go up to$2.5 million. So I'm going to make$2.5 million dollars and a two million dollar investment in six months no risk double-a bonds no no one's ever made any money in double-a bonds they move like a tortoise running across the street you say this baby's gonna run across the street right there's no money in it so i walk into bernie canter's office i said now you believe me i just made two and a half million bucks on a two million dollar investment in six months no risk they just paid for land now to bernie canter's credit he says all right what do you think i should do i said look they're gonna split this land off this land's worth a fortune i told you it's worth four billion dollars i'm still making it up yeah okay i still haven't called a single person he gives me a hundred million to invest he buys a hundred million at burlington northern stock they announced they're gonna split the company into burlington northern the railroad and burlington resources the land du pont comes in and pays $6 billion for the land.
40:28The stock goes up, doubles. As it's doubling, he sells as fast as he can. He makes$100 million. And he gives me a bonus of$1 million. 25 years old. My friends are like, he made$100 million. You only got a million? I'm like, what do you got? What do you got? I got$1 ,250 bonus? How about I get a million dollars? I just need everybody to understand. This is 1983 now, four? No, this is 86. I'm 25. Again, I'm just sad because money got weird because we just printed a fuckload of it in the last 20 years. And that's the answer, by the way. All inflation has come from printing. You just do not understand how much a million fucking dollars is in 1986.
41:09Like, a hundred thousand a year in 1986 is profoundly wealthy. The way you think of someone who makes two to five million a year now, it is that big of a delta. You don't understand. That's insane. Can I say one thing to the three of you? I have bad news. I, like, actually am a businessman for a living and I have a hard stop in 10 minutes, so I have bad news. We're going to have to do part two. We're only at 20. How old are you? 25. No, no, right now? 63. Yeah, we're only at fucking 25. So, fans, I just want you to know there's going to be a part two. If I have to go somewhere, you come back because I want to keep this going, but I'm not going to be able to, so, like, okay, go ahead.
41:49All right, so then... We haven't even gotten to, like, anything yet. just so everybody knows. It's gonna be like fucking Star Wars when I'm gonna do three episodes. But now I'm a rock star. A massive rock star. Rock star. And it's 1986 too so the Reagan thing's in full effect. New York's out of control. It went from a shithole to really becoming the precursor to what New York is now. You must be out of control. So then there's a stock market crash in 87. Right, October, Black Friday. Right, stock market crash in 87. Actually, I don't want to skip over that. You make this massive sitch in 86 you're like rolling now.
42:24You're like envisioning everything. Correct. World domination. How big of a, like how much did you get fucked? Because you might have not, because it might not. I didn't get fucked. So Black Friday, you weren't in a situation where that really destroyed you. No. But did it scare you of like, oh, wait a minute. It's not always just up, up and up. I might like, was that something you took note of? All right. So here's that. Okay. So in April. Of 87. Of 87. Right. because it happened in October 87, right? Interest rates start leaping. Okay, they go up 100 basis points in 87, 1 % up. And they're going up, up, up, up, up.
43:02And I'm thinking this baby's gonna crash. This baby being what? The economy? The market's gonna crash. The stock market's gonna crash. I go to everybody, say short the market, short the market, short the market. So I, and the firm won't let me short the market because who am I? I'm nobody. So they're not letting me do anything, right? So I can't do anything. So I start borrowing money from everybody I know to short the market. Jesus Christ. Okay? May, June, July, I borrow money from my grandfather, which is bad news if you can't pay him back. And I borrow from everybody. Okay? And the market keeps going up.
43:33And you don't remember, but in August of 87, the market hits absolutely new highs. And I am absolutely, completely and totally broke in every way. All the money's gone. Everything's gone. I bet it all. Interest rates are flying. I'm saying this baby's gonna crash and it's hitting new highs new highs and I am broke and I had borrowed money from everybody and shorted it Stock market breaks in October But that's the way the world works, right? It comes after you go broke But one friend of mine I borrowed money from him and he was a stockbroker in California And he bought options that matured at the end of October and I and it hit and I earned enough money to pay Everybody back and I lost all mine but imagine I borrowed 10 ,000 bucks from you and I walk in after it crashes and I go, I give you a 10.
44:20You're like, oh, Howard, you killed it. Meanwhile, I had to go back to my grandfather and borrow money to pay rent. And you know, when you go to your grandfather and say, I need money to pay rent, that is really painful. So because did you, that million bucks you made in 86, you invested it? Oh no, I bet it. I bet it because I was definitely on a break and I was completely right. But the moral of that story is - Timing is everything. Timing is everything. So I was busted. but then I do another one in 1988 where interstate banking comes so a friend of mine tells me that interstate banking outside basically you could only be a state remember city bank was New York city bank yeah because you could only be in New York that's right right you could only be state by state and then we're going to break that up so Pennsylvania says okay we're going to let outsiders in in a year so I figure out okay why don't we buy a crappy Pennsylvania bank that's It's got nice locations.
45:10It'll definitely get acquired. So I go to Bernie Kanter and I said, okay, here's my idea. And this time he doesn't mess around. He goes, all right, let's go. Let's go. So it's 1988. He says, let's go. Not only does he put a hundred million in, but he tells all his buddies. Because, you know, when you're a rich guy, you want to do it. I get it. He puts all his buddies in for 50 million bucks. And we buy this company called First Pennsylvania. Six months later, it gets bought by Girard National Bank for 12. We pay six. Bodies it for 12. Back in New York comes in. right after interstate bank comes and buys for 18 6 12 18 we go up straight up triples his money he makes 300 but he put up 100 he gets 300 back so he's a profit of 200 guess what he gives me two bucks and now i got money again he's back i got money back so basically i got money all right i got money again and now okay he liked me the first time i made him money he loved you the second time now he's loving me okay now whatever I now I'm the teacher I'm very aware why Steve Ross likes me when you start putting up more than one win it matters that's what happens that's right now he loves me and now it's 1988 and now I'm on fire in the firm so I'm managing his money I'm managing all his friends money you're on fire doing every bet I want I'm making my income starts to double okay so if you look back at me beginning with 40 grand then I made 80 grand then I made 160 grand $320 ,000,$650 ,000,$320 ,000,$650 ,000,$330 ,000.
46:37Now, if you keep going, if you double and double and double, so now I'm making like my normal job, I'm making millions a year, millions a year, plus I did this for this extra, and Bernie Kearner's in love with me, right? He's in love with me. How old's Bernie at this time? So he dies in 1996 at 79, so he's in his mid-70s. He's in mid-70s, and he's in love with me. I've become like his I'm totally now I'm not the kitchen cabinet right 1991 fires the president of the company the guy who told me you're a roadkill oh no way that dude yeah and he says and he promotes me at the age of 29 I become the president of the company wow and so I'm the president of the company we're growing the company's on fire it's growing it's rocking and then 1986 right so the deal is in the company is i hire everybody like it's like you're hiring everybody and everyone says okay what happens if something happens to bernie you know bernie canter's like the owner what happens and it's like i control the company if something happens to him and so if he dies it's me and you'd say cool all right you're hiring me i'm cool with that he goes on life support and his wife decides she's going to try to sell the company and so we have a giant fight and i go to my lawyer what do we do he goes let's not snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
48:01You have a straight flush. Just do nothing. She hires Kext, this big PR company, and I get a call on Friday night. We have a big court date coming, and on Friday night, I get a call from the New York Times, this woman named Diana Enriquez, and she says, listen, I've been working with Kext for three weeks, and I'm going to write the rippingest story that you're an asshole. and do you want to talk to me or not? You're the cover of Sunday's New York Times business section. What year is this? 89? No, no, now we're all the way up to 96. Just so everybody knows, even though the internet is out in 96, it's the 1996 internet, which is still fairly small.
48:45And this business, this is the punchline of the, every single person of any kind of anything in the business universe, in the world, let alone America, reads the Sunday business section. This is a big deal. All right, so I decide, you know what? Screw it. I'll talk to her. Smart. So I sit down with her and talk to her, and she writes a story with partners like these who needs rivals, right? Her picture, my picture, and Bernie Cantor's picture, like gigantic, and he's on life support. Yep. Anyway, I win the case in every possible way, and I buy her out. And then my son is six days old, okay? and i hold him up in delaware i'm in delaware where we settle and i buy her out and it's over the company is now my company forever forever it's my company and i hold my new son up like like you know that's it and i'm like you have no i look at my little boy and i say six days old you have no idea what a good day you just had you have a good he just hit it and so then that That was the day the firm was mine.
49:53Okay? And then I went and hired everybody we loved. Because the rule was, if it's my firm, I'm only gonna work with people that we like. That's the rule of company. I make that the rule of the company and we work with everybody we like. So I say it this way. We all have the same rainbow friends. Now think about your friends. Think on this side, smart, capable, you know the winners. And the ones on this side, crazy, make you laugh in a bar harder than anybody else, but you know, a little, what? And I'd say, just hire these. and that's my firm we hire so my brother joins my best friend joins my college roommate's brother went to Harvard Business School he runs banking, everybody, I hire everybody I love but I make that the rule, not for me for everybody the security guard hires so I don't have to worry about them if one of them has to go to a wedding, the other guy fills in and that's the firm that's located on the 101st to the 105th floor of the World Trade Center
50:55I'm just doing it.
51:01The planet's a fucking building.
51:10Even though my friends get killed.
51:16I lose my brother he's 36 I lose my best friend he's 39 I lose my best friend's brother I lose everybody but everybody loses everybody everybody loses everybody he's like look at this office and say okay everybody dies and you're taking I was taking my son on his first day of kindergarten that's it that same son I'm in his first day of kindergarten so I race to the building I race to the building and I get to the door of the building because I'm just trying to grab people what time did you go to the office prior to the first day of getting up? I don't know, 7.30 yeah the show is on alright your show is on okay at 8.48 the show is on everybody who matters on September 11th is in the office it's not a holiday there's no reason to be out everybody's there it was my first day of kindergarten for a harsh man my best friend Doug his kid goes to Riverdale and he dies because it's not his first day of school everybody dies everybody's dead and you know I get to the building you know I head right to the building right away my phone keeps ringing as it turns out my phone kept ringing I kept picking up was a flip phone and it was no connection it was my brother calling so I get my sister on the phone when I'm going downtown because someone they tell me a plane hit the building but I don't know I haven't seen it right they just say playing at the building i figure it's like some stupid piper cub some guy clipped the building or idiot so i tell my driver i said just go to fifth avenue because you can see i know you can see the building as soon as and there's just flames just smoke just pouring out of the place and he starts crying i said let's just get there let's just get there and uh you know i get my sister on the phone and and uh she said i spoke to gary my brother and And I said, oh, what did he say?
53:07She goes, I got him on the phone, and he called. And I said, well, thank God you're not there. He goes, I am there. I'm calling to say goodbye. I'm going to die. Smoke's pouring in. There's no way out. There's nowhere to go. I'm just saying goodbye. I got to die. I tried to call Howard. I can't get through to him. I'm just telling him I love him. I'm sorry. That's it. That's it. So I just go to the building, and I'm just hoping people can get out. I'm just hoping some way there's people to get out. but I know they're all in there and I know there's nothing they can do. And then I'm standing at the doorway of the building and I'm grabbing people, asking them what floor they came on.
53:46And, you know, and the highest floor I get to is like 90, 92. And then I hear the sound, the loudest sound I ever heard in my life. It's like, it's like Titanic. Remember the movie when it breaks in half? That's the sound. And I don't know what the hell's going on. So I start running. I got my suit and tie on, right? My shoes on and I'm running as hard as I can from nothing. I have no idea what's going on. I'm just running my ass off. And I look over my shoulder and a black tornado is chasing me. You saw that smoke sort of rolling? And I'm running as hard as I can and this tornado is chasing me and then the tornado comes across this way.
54:19And I see the tornado coming so I dive under a car. And I hold my head like this and it just goes whoosh! And then the world is black and silent. And I'm not clever enough to put something over my mouth. i have no idea what's going on i'm thinking son of a i was uptown and i was safe now i'm gonna die i'm gonna die because it's think about it's black and i'm holding my breath i'm like i can't believe i'm gonna die i said actually i can't hear any sound i'm dead this is dead i can't hear any noise I'm outside it's dead silent so I take my fingers and I go like this I stand because I can't see my eyes were open and it's black and I stare myself in the eyes I'm like ah I go okay okay I'm blind and deaf but I'm alive so I stand up of course I'm hiding under a car smashed a little out of my head now I'm bleeding off the side of my head self-inflicted so I climb out from under the car and I get up and it's pitch black so what's the first thing I do I start running but of course I'm running pitch black so what do I hit park car I go fine I was a park car so now I'm bleeding I'm limping but all self-induced right and then I realize okay okay so now I'm walking like this in the dark and then I see a flashlight so I walk to the flashlight and there's a cop holding the flashlight just holding up like this so i put my hand on the back of his collar and so let's get the hell out of here and he sits down he just sits down because he's in shock because this thing went right through him of course and so i said give me that so i grabbed the flashlight out of the guy's hand and now i'm walking my flashlight i find a uh like a uh i think it was like a coffee republic you know some coffee shop that's blown to smithereens and i go in and i find a bottle of water and there's a paper towels so i take the paper towels and then i put the paper towels under my arm so i got the giant flashlight got the paper towels right i got a bottle of water i start walking as the smoke starts to clear gets lower and lower and lower my driver jumps on me from behind me he's like mr lightning you're alive you're alive i can't believe you're alive because he was a he's a retired detective and he goes you're alive and i turn around he goes what do they give rich people like flashlights and water he's like who gets flashlights and water Like where did you get this stuff?
56:47And then we walked uptown. And we just walked uptown. Knowing that they were all dead.
56:58Well, I'm sure everybody was moved as much as everybody in this room. I really beg that we can do part two of this. Sure. And I thank you. Thanks, man. I hope you all enjoyed this episode. Make sure you come back tomorrow to listen to the second part of this incredible conversation. Enjoy.
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