If You Make $54K and You’re Happy, LISTEN UP

0:28Hey, everybody. other um kind of in this the beginning of this like new york tech wave yes right and the social media wave yeah um you're now a mogul so what the fuck happened like 20 years or take me even before that like what you jumped on one of those like video game like sonic the hedgehog fucking and all of us are like walking on the sidewalk and you jumped on the ramp and in some ways and in other ways you know and you know this a lot of our friends everyone took kind of different paths it's so weird we're getting together. I had some really long flights recently and I get a lot of work done on my flights.

1:06But these were like 20 hour flights. And so I got everything done and I had a little bit of time on my hand. And time on your hand can go anywhere. You can go into like TikTok and Instagram stream for nine hours. You can get into these weird like Wikipedia. Now my new one is just weird prompt engineering on chat GBTA. I just start asking crazy questions like what if the Roman Empire was actually based on 19, like I just get into weird places. By the way, imagine a social network for prompts. Oh, I mean. Like show me your fucking prompts. I mean, there's so much coming. Oh yeah, like Venmo. I was an early, Venmo was one of my best New York investments.

1:44They sold too early, Cortina. But nonetheless, in some ways I went on that video game in the way of being known, right? I decided amongst our group of many people running here that the personal brand was Emote, that it was misunderstood. And so in some ways I did that. What I was about to say was on that long flight, I looked up people that I have not talked to in 10 years. Like people that were really growing up in the game here. And just fun to see like where people went. Back to what we were talking about. I think we were talking about the before the pod started. Ryan Graves. Like it's just fun to see like different people 15 years later, 20 years later.

2:23Some people doubled down on their careers. Some people pivoted. Some people went into politics. Barrett Hyundai hit me up the other day. Literally hadn't talked to him in seven or eight years. I haven't seen him in ages either. You know, he just literally texted me a day ago or two days ago where he went. He's like, I'm living out here now. People started families. I mean, a lot of these kids, you know, a lot of us were kids. I was married at the time, but like a lot of people were straight out of school. So families, this and that. And then, listen, financially, some of the people we came up with made uncomfortable amounts of money are some of the richest people in the world.

2:59And they still answer our emails. Yeah, I mean, I think that's right. And then there's people that are far less successful that don't, like money and fame is not a variable of your humanity. It exposes your humanity. Money and fame don't change you, they expose you, right? And so you know this, there are people that are far more wealthy and far more famous that reply immediately. And then there's people four tiers below that don't reply because they think there's someone and you actually don't even give a fuck if they reply or not. But they're high on their own supply. And so, you know. I like that, high on their own supply.

3:35Very much. And I always laugh at that because a lot of those people are incredibly emotionally vulnerable because if they're playing that game, a lot of those people have the tendencies that also start to have them decline. And then they're quick to ask for help when they were nowhere to be found to help anybody else. And listen, actually, I don't even judge those people as like, fuck you. I actually have a lot of empathy for those people. Those people have emotional things that they have to figure out around selfishness and fear and kindness. Ego. Yeah, ego. Look, ego is makeup for insecurity.

4:07The only people that have egos are people that are using that ego tendency to hide that they're scared. Ego players are pusses. When I see ego, I feel bad. I'm not mad at them. I'm not like, oh, you're a dick. Or like masculine. I'm not like that, I'm like oh you're scared You're scared I have deep compassion for the worst behavior in our society I really do I think when you get thoughtful about this stuff It's really easy to judge But I promise everyone who's listening This is a fun kind of angle we're starting this with People that do the shit you most hate for Are hurting You don't murder when you're in a good place You don't fucking Domestic abuse Because shit's fucking popping and everything's great in your soul You're hurting you're in a bad place that's right you don't have inner peace and you're lashing out to try to protect hide survive and most of all it's all bully shit right like the book like now that we're all grown everyone like the kids that were bullies had fucked up stitches because they were so fucked up they didn't want you to strike first so their animalistic moves were like i'm gonna fucking get you before you get me because if you come at me i'm soft somewhere along the lines of middle school to high school, I realized, oh wait, even though I wasn't physically big by any stretch, I was like, oh wait, I'm stronger than everyone.

5:31I didn't realize it was because of good parenting and Soviet, like humble immigrant upbringing. I didn't know why, but I knew, straight up brother, I fucking knew at 13, 14, 15 that I was stronger than everyone. You had that foundation. I knew that peer pressure wasn't tripping me. I was surprised why I thought I was better than everyone while thinking I wasn't. But there was this level of like, I'm good. And like, if these kids who I want to be, like you want to be popular, but I could deal with getting punked. I could deal with not being invited to the, like if I didn't get invited to the party, I was like, they're fucking lost.

6:09And that's just not how most kids are. You're like devastated and trying to fit in. And quickly I was like, this is good, right? And it's honestly, that's been it since. where did that self-confidence come from the luck of the draw pure serendipity and really really I'm very grateful for it one is DNA my mom is that person my mom doesn't give a fuck in like a crazy way by the way on the record my dad's a little bit more out there Tamara Vaynerchuk she's a very behind the scenes lady my dad likes to go out in front a little bit the wine videos with me sometimes pops up but my mom my mom blows me away.

6:50One, my mom lost her mom at five. And she grew up in the Soviet Union and her dad spent many years in jail because there was so much political. It was the Soviet Union. She had all the reasons to be the most cynical and angry and sad person and she's literally the other side of the pillow. She's the most optimistic, open, caring. That's a gift. And I have that gift. like I'm wired to love people. I like sit here like it's crazy how I feel about the four people I'm looking at right now that I don't know. There's a level of like I want to love you and be your friend and I'm here for you. That's always how I've been so I just thought that's how it was.

7:33Now that I'm getting to the point in my life I'm like man I'm living on some.001 like people don't love people the way I love people. And so that's just the luck of DNA. Then think about it. Then my mother who's the primary person not even primary the person who raised me until I was 14 then I started to see my dad at the store and all that she's reinforcing it because she's that too so I had the natural DNA and then the architect of me my clay is right and then the clay maker is me so now I'm double and then on top if that wasn't already lucky enough I get to be born into adversity I get to be born in the Soviet Union I get to come to America and have nothing I get to grow up my mom's the greatest but she's frugal so she's not buying me shit like I I was born hungry and then I wasn't fed which made me double good at eating what age oh that was good I've never said that before can we clip I was born hungry and then I wasn't fed which made me double yeah that was it by the way if I was a rapper I would be all top of the dome shit I would write nothing yeah I was born hungry I wasn't fed which made me double hungry which made me good at eating that's who I am that's dope Damn that is a real fucking bar I really wish I could rap by the way Alright pod's over Drop the mic So you know How old were you?

8:52How old am I now? When I came over I was three and a half Okay So I don't really remember the old country It's crazy I remember We went to Regal Park in Queens So I lived there the first couple years And I grew up in Edison, New Jersey I remember Queens heavy Heavy That's why you like Indians I do You know what Edison, New Jersey That's exactly why I like Indians Yeah And I'm 49 Let me tell you my Indians story I moved to Edison and I'm an immigrant. And this is like lower middle class white. Black, Chinese, no Indian yet. So it's lower. I grew up in Edison in the early 80s when it was lower middle class.

9:28And then there was like the wrong side of the tracks. The projects was just even below that. So it was very blue collar plumbers. My two best friends, his dad was like a junior plumber and the other dad was a delivered wonder bread on a truck. This was blue collar life. but it was great diversity there was first, second and third and fourth grade was heavy black Asian and white all lower middle class then the summer of fifth grade so I'm the immigrant even though we had the diversity Asian all the Asian kids that I went to school with in Edison they were born here I'm the immigrant and people like joke about it plus Russia and America were like kind of fighting at the time Cold War so Nikolai Volkov like I got I got punked a little bit a couple times and then I walk into to the first day of fifth grade, and we have seven new students, all from India.

10:19Let's go. Five with the last name Patel, but not directly related. But not directly related. And here's what happened. This podcast is sponsored by the Patels. It's literally five Patels out of seven. They own 50 % of the hotels, the Patels. The Patels are like the mafia. Five Patels in my class, none directly related. So that was interesting. I'm like, that's fucking cool. And it's like, oh, that's like Smith. So that was cool. And I befriended those muckers heavy, not because of anything else. A, I like people, so I was that guy. I was mayor already. I was the fifth grade president. I also liked them because these muckers wanted to make money.

10:54They were like, yo, what are we selling? I was like, these are my patels. We fucking sold shit. Lollipops, fucking band-aids. Whatever the fuck we could find. Well, two things. Cheap as fuck, and then just crafty. Just crafty. Immigrant shit. Like open up my drawer at home. and is full of ketchup packets. I know. Full of fucking ketchup packets. Even today. Brother, if my dad walks into a Dunkin' my father today goes into Dunkin' Donuts and takes 800 napkins. I'm not even sure he's going there to offer the coffee. I think he just wants the free nap. Bro, he takes the whole fucking thing. I know what immigrant life is.

11:30So we were the same except for one thing. Those b****** also got A's. I got D's and F's. These b****** would work with me and they'd still fucking get straight A's. so I grew up with a lot of Indian kids especially in 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th grade and then I moved to Hunterdon County, New Jersey out west and that was the first time I saw people hunt and fish and this was like rural like middle America shit I was still in Jersey but I was basically in Ohio these kids wrestled, these kids had fucking shotguns these kids fucking hunted fished I could have been in Wyoming or fuck I could have been in the middle of fucking nowhere but still in Jersey so then I got 40 years of that Then, because I didn't want to go to college, because I wanted to work in my dad's store, but I knew my parents wanted me to go to college.

12:17Even though my mom wasn't a typical immigrant of like, get good grades, she was still caught on like, you have to go to college, otherwise you're a fucking loser. But she didn't know anything, because we were immigrants, and I was the oldest, and she wasn't very social, so she didn't go see my teachers. She didn't know shit. My mom asks me about my college for the first time, really, February of my senior year okay past the due date of the application February of my I'm like mom three months I go mom I didn't take the SATs I'm not going to college my mom is an angel angel she smacks me and says you're going to college and figure it out and like that's why I always respect my mom is an angel but she is not a pushover she's not the mother that live today none of this modern parenting bro I didn't even contemplate thinking about talking back to my mother because I thought she could feel it and she would fuck me up.

13:12That's how much I couldn't contemplate. It's one of the great issues in our society. We are letting children disrespect their parents, which is why they're all disrespecting keyboard warrior troll fuckers in real life because their parents didn't set that respect. I'm not willing to just push over a modern parent and be like, yeah, baby. I'd be like, no, you suck. You gotta have the real talks with your kids. So there's that. So then, check this out, she smacks me. I'm scared fuckless, I'm like I can't get into college. And then she turns around, because I was like okay fine, I'll go to the community college locally.

13:44She literally turned around and was like and don't make it a community college because I'll be embarrassing. I'm like fuck, this is a true story. This is a crazy story in hindsight. I've never heard this before, this is great. I say it once in a blue moon. A week or two later, very soon, maybe a month, but very soon later, I'm getting the mail one day after school and there's a postcard that says Mount Ida College. That's it, that's all it said. So it didn't say community college, it didn't say junior college, I'm like, yes. I turn around the postcard, I fill it out. This is how I got to college.

14:14I fill out Gary Vaynerchuk, the address, it didn't ask for anything else. That was some good direct mail targeting. I literally put it in, it was good direct mail targeting. I lift the thing, you lift the thing to collect it. Three weeks later, I'm in homeroom, and my homeroom teacher says, Mrs. Ballandry, I think, my guidance counselor would like to see me. This is now April of my senior year. I have never met my guidance counselor in my high school career when I tell you I was off the reservation I don't even know what the fuck I was thinking I was just like I'm selling baseball cards and I'm going to work for my were you selling wine yet?

14:48kind of, senior year for sure I'm talking about freshman year where people are figuring out their life I'm like fuck this, I'm going to sell shit I walk into the guidance counselor she goes Mr. Vaynerchuk nice to meet you, we both kind of laugh it was really clever and she goes, so wait, you're going to college? And I go, Mount Ida accepted me? And she goes, I'll never forget this. She's sitting. She smacked you. No. But back then they would do it. She picks up a stapler and she goes, Mount Ida would accept this stapler. So that's the college I went to. Let me tell you how this goes down. This is why you're a staple of social media.

15:26Thank you. No internet. I just work the whole summer. no visit to the school the first time I ever see where I'm going to college is the day I'm moving in to go to college we drive up there now remember where's Mount Ida? it's in Newton, Massachusetts so actually in a very wealthy very wealthy suburb of Boston so I'm like oh this is nice we go into the campus the gate opens we go into this little campus 91 % of the student body is on financial aid and is Hispanic and or black and I'm not talking fucking HBCU, I'm talking my best friends for the next four years, two of them, were kicked out in the first 60 days of college and I now dominate any time I play Spades or CeeLo.

16:19And so I went from this crazy good diversity to then white, white, like, you know, country, country bump, to then four years of like straight out of Compton and I always think about this. I'm like my default of loving people but then environment such a player. The luck that I got to be an immigrant life then this crazy, you should see my, I went to Martin Luther King Elementary School. My second grade picture is crazy with the diversity of black, white, even Indian at that point even before the big immigration. Then this crazy like MAGA, like middle America, like white, like hunting, like Bubba, like fucking Haystack, Walmart and then fucking like hood, like not even like, not even like the music I was listening to in high school.

17:03Like I thought I was cool with like Snoop Dogg. I get to fucking Mount Ida. These kids are into fucking Scarface, Ghetto Boys, Bun B. Like I'm learning all sorts of, Master Peely, like before the Jay-Z shit four years later. Like I got into the fucking culture. And so I pop out at 22 and then I'm running a very high-end wine store business that I'm building for my dad. And I go from all that and I've never had any kind of money. And now all my time, 12 hours a day, 15 hours a day, is selling to fucking millionaires on fucking Wall Street, buying fucking Le Chateau Lafitte. When I was 16 years old, I thought if you owned any kind of Mercedes, I didn't know what class was.

17:42If you had a Mercedes, you were the fucking richest person I've ever heard of. So I had this track in the first 30 years of my life that had a ton of context, many different people, very humble shit. I didn't even know where the Hamptons was. I grew up in New Jersey, and when Hampton's Vodka launched when I was 26 do you know how insane what I'm about to tell you is I grew up in Jersey my whole life I'm 26 years old a salesman comes in to pitch Hampton's Vodka it's this great bottle, I don't know if you've ever seen it I think it's still around but it was hot for a few minutes I look at it and I'm like man this is great packaging I'm like yeah I think I'll buy it because I'm the buyer of the store I go by the way what's the Hampton's name come from He goes, the Hamptons.

18:28I go, where's that? He goes, he laughed, and he's like, I could tell pretty quickly I wasn't joking. I'm like, where's the Hamptons? He goes, no, bro, the Hamptons, Long Island. Because you gotta remember, when I was 26, it was 2001, we didn't live on the internet, social media hadn't come. I wasn't reading, I was fucking working 17 hours a day. And I grew up fucking not in those circles. I didn't know the Upper East Side, I didn't know Rolex. I didn't fucking, you know, Lifestyles of the Riches famous and MTV Cribs was like the closest thing you saw. Now these kids, and I have empathy for the kids, the reason they're fucked up is in their feed all they're seeing is 1 % of 1 % of 1 % wealth and beauty.

19:05They're seeing fucking dudes making hundreds of million dollars, hooking up with the hottest chicks in the world and they're like fuck, my life sucks. We didn't have that. I was like I didn't even know where the fucking Hamptons was. It wasn't like I was living in Kansas. I was in fucking Jersey and I had no clue that the Hamptons existed. so by the way all of that is I didn't either all of that until last year now we have a hamster house yeah I think you knew you knew of it before and I think here's the fun part by the way this story now picks up around the time I met you so I'm in this cocoon of the liquor store up until the day I start seeing you in 2006-7 at these meetups that's me summit series yeah like that I always think that the reason I had a different kind of career in tech and all this was I came at it from a totally different place.

19:52And what a different place is. I wasn't, yeah. Like these four year, two year cycles. All these different places. A completely different demographic. And you know this, the tech scene in New York in 2005, 6, 7, 8, you were either a developer, straight nerd, by the way. Like these tech kids were nerds. Or... FinTech, ad tech, primarily. Yeah, just nerds. Yeah. I'm talking even web 2.0. Like, you know, or like it was tech people. Like now tech is like... IT, IT people. Correct. Or you were an Ivy League kid. Yeah. Right? You were truly a Stanford, Harvard, Brown, and you kind of knew that this was coming.

20:26But it was just like, and that was a whole other world for me. So yeah, that's been the story of my life a little bit. Yeah, I love it. And that self-confidence is rooted from your parents, but also from all these interactions and all these social circles. Yeah, and I think also, I would tell you, and I'm curious, hit me up on social if this resonates for you. I don't think I've said this much in my life. I think my self-confidence comes from me knowing that I'm not trying to do anything bad to anyone. Does that make sense? Like when you were just talking, that was like what was on the tip of my tongue.

20:57I think my self-confidence comes from I don't need your validation, which is just a whole different fucking game. And I know that I'm genuinely not trying to do anything but good. So what do I have to worry about? Yeah, I just got goosebumps because, you know, it's true. I send you an email you respond when somebody asks for something you try to help without an ulterior motive without wanting something in response I'll tell you why brother thank you for saying that I'll tell you why I believe the definition of giving is giving without expectation people are willing to do shit for me all the time because they want something from me I appreciate that I'm glad you can feel that on the other side of me you know listen you know i'm a businessman i'm living life like i'm not scared to ask for something if something but there's never been in time in my life where i've done something for someone and being like okay yeah now i'm gonna hit him up and raise some capital or when i need him to promote the v friends like like to me that is actually one of the most disgusting acts of all to me that's manipulation that's not giving that's quid pro quo yeah bro i hate that shit yeah that's It's not authentic.

22:13Have you meditated before or studied any Buddhism? Any chance? So this is interesting. So the answer directly is not really. But my wife Mona does it every day. So many, I mean now it's obviously, you know this. Like it's obviously so deep in your culture and now it's so westernized and so real and grounding and everything's happening. I got a really funny answer for you on this one. I do not actively do that. however this is like fun to say out loud I ask myself if I'm meditating at all times as this has gotten popular in the last 10 years and as my content continues to be made and made and made and documented it was stunning to me somewhere around 2009-10 I started getting these emails cold emails you know Gary long and I'd read it because back then you remember I replied to every tweet every email that was my whole thing from 2007 to 11 and I started seeing this term I'd never heard of called stoic.

23:14And I would always be like, they're like, Gary, are you a stoic? Do you practice stoics? And I would always be like, and you know, again, I educated, because I was such a poor student, I educated myself through Google from 2001 to 2010. I would argue that my intelligence, my vocabulary, a lot of it comes from that, right? And so I would get that email and I'd be straight up like, what the fuck is stoicism? And I would Google it and I'd be like, and then that was the first time I saw something where I'm like oh shit that does feel kind of, so I feel like I have tendencies of Buddha of stoicism of all these things it is very much when I read about it the principles, interact with people that are deep in it, I'm like I cross over into a lot of those tendencies but actively practicing no, but when I said to you earlier this is real, what time is it right now?

24:01It is 5.39 5.39pm I will say, I don't want to hyperbolize it I will say that I I said to myself, not out loud, to my brain, you know how you can talk to yourself right now? I've probably practiced verbally, practiced verbally today, I've probably said four times something to myself that is grounded in how deeply grateful I am about life. Four times today. So I feel somewhere around the, so actually let me get very deep. I think I've cracked it, because I've been curious about this. My mom lost her mom at five, like I said. my dad lost his dad at 15. I just recently had an epiphany that the biggest song track of my life was the fear of my parents dying in my youth.

24:48It has been a really, this has been a real moment for me. And last year I'm like, what the fuck, now I get it, kind of moment, you know? I had recurring nightmares of my parents dying. I was scared of it. And I think that when I got to like 18 and it didn't happen, I feel like weirdly I've been playing with house money and I think I just got so grateful and now it's like fucking 49 it's like fuck there's you know like so like I'm completely you know this we don't know each other well enough and I think you'll find this fascinating but I think you know me well enough to you'll believe it but I don't know if you know it I think the other weird thing with me back to this conversation is I get no validation nor do I have my identity wrapped up into the Gary V of it all or my professional success.

25:37Like in a way that would make you fucking shake. I just, I don't believe being good at business and being known is that noble. It's definitely not my adult, it's definitely not my identity. Like I could give a fuck about Gary Vee. In fact, I would argue that it's been good for business but it comes with a lot of baggage. Being a public figure has got a lot of stuff and I didn't think about like, how would my kids think about that yeah i would like like it's life like by the way i can't live life at this point where i'm like i'm having dinner and like it is in my mind that like people are listening to my conversation like it's like privacy is important yeah i think we need it and so anyway nonetheless i am not having that humility though is the key to keep on building your your success and your empire i think the first time you acknowledge it and you're like yo i'm this person you stop.

26:30I agree. You're stunted. By the way, but you'll like this. We said this earlier and I'm happy for people that go there. People always think like, because there was that whole era where I think, to be frank, and I'll say this, I don't say this often, but I feel safe here. I feel I was unfairly pegged as the guy that was pushing hustle and burnout. A couple people wrote some articles that were completely unfair with a ton of information that wasn't real. There was one specific medium article that was titled Hustle porn and made me the poster child. Literally 40 things in that article. The kid actually sent me an email several years ago apologizing.

27:05He literally said, because I actually referenced it not out loud the way I just did. I said, I kind of used it vaguely and he knew I was talking about him. And my point was some people burn other people down to build themselves. And he emailed me and said, that's exactly what he did. He used my popularity to tear me down, to try to build up his writing career. And I actually, by the way, huge shout out to that kid. It meant the world to to me because that was a very big blow to me. You know this, you remember this. I got pegged unfairly because if you go read Crush It, if you go look at my content in 2009, 10, I never said work 15 hours a day to just make, I said live your passion and in the book that put me on, I say if you work nine to five and you make 54 ,000 a year and you're fucking happy, you've won life.

27:48And so that really hurt me because it was really unfair but it was a great chapter because I watched a lot of my Silicon Valley friends shit on me when they knew better because it was popular of the moment and it brought me back to what I talked about early in a podcast. I was so pumped that once again, I did not give a fuck and in fact, straight up, I felt bad for them because they would never forever have the same relationship with me because, by the way, I'm good at being the bigger man and forgiving but I'm a human. like it can never it can never be a hundred when someone's like really trying to do wrong by you for no fucking reason I mean fuck man I've made a million mistakes documented I've made a million mistakes and any time I've made a mistake to someone or something I deserve for them to have a feeling about it but when people are trying to fucking do the wrong thing by you for no fucking reason other than to jump on the masses by the way that was an early precursor to me that I'm like oh fuck cancel culture that's not what it was called then but I was like I was blown away how many people just jumped on and be like yeah yeah, fuck Gary.

28:49I'm like, bro, I just helped you last week. The fuck are you doing? You know what I mean? I was like, you don't want to, and then I went in, and then I go into my protectionism, like, you don't want to lose me as a friend. Right. You know, and so, I don't know. But you, you know, you engaged it with compassion in the sense of you kind of, especially when he apologized, you saw where he was coming from. Right? Like, he was using you to launch his career, and so you're like, okay, let's, like, distance this dude from his action. in a real way. In a real way. And honestly, I need to be a little bit better about this.

29:23I'm about to say it where it looks kind of good, but real talk, it's still something I'm working on to be less good. Meaning, I love my capacity to forgive. I love my ability to be the bigger person. I love my capacity to look the other way when it's not a big deal, not like if something bad's happening. I've got to be smarter about it because what it creates is entitlement and then I create resentment and then it can actually fuck up our relationship I've been really working in the last five years to be able to let's just play it out this is real now somebody writes the article, everyone's shitting on me because it's the fun thing to do of the moment because now it's no longer like let's build empires now we're starting to get into like wait work life balance right that was the era shift they decided to throw me under the bus on it and I watch homies that I did crazy shit for, crazy shit.