The $800 Billion Opportunity: Why Live Shopping Will Change Your Life in 2026

25:11The collectability that I've been touching on a lot, special packs, the things that retailers look for, their exclusive stuff. plays out in live shopping, but for the brands, they control that medium. And so it's a very interesting time. Phenomenal. Every so often, I'm going to stop for audience questions. They're coming in on my phone, so they're not always going to be tied in precisely, but this is from Cantha. Cantha goes, Gary, confectionery is one of the few categories where the purchase decision happens in seconds at a shelf. It's already a dopamine economy. So when you talk about day trading attention, do brands in this space have a structural advantage they're leaving on the table?

25:46Well, they have a structured advantage on purchase, like impulse, like it's an incredible category for that reason. I actually think it's a disadvantage for a lot of people because they take it for granted. I think this is a game of upside. I think there's so much more to go. And I think, listen, I know Hershey's knows this because they've had one enter. I think this room is wildly naive about what the creator economy is about to do. I'm writing a book called The Individual Empire and my thesis in the book and I've been spending two years writing it and it's going to come out early next year I've wrapped it up at this point is that the human being with a large audience has remarkable leverage in compared to corporations and much bigger than people realize and so I think that we as big companies even mid-sized companies in here retailers and brands for damn sure need to start acting more like the creators, not the reverse.

26:46And that's winning on relevance with a lot of different consumer segmentations versus one brand positioning pushed down. And I think we have to stop taking for granted our advantages. Right. You know, and so, yes, I think that question's brilliant. And there's truth to that. There's always opportunities that are bigger advantages for some categories than others. But let there be no confusion. It's a lot. Listen, I travel a lot. I'm in Hudson News all the time buying all sorts of products here. Sure, there's opportunities. I mean, I could argue that bubble gum has been a private label category for 15 years with the way it's gone down.

27:25Like, there's a lot you can argue here. Let there be no confusion. Like, brand and relevance make the hand go in different places. So it's not like you're gonna be crushed because there are some different dynamics here. But boy, there's a lot of money being left on the table in this room. Can I challenge you on the individual empire? Yes. So I'll follow someone I think that's so genuine, so cool. The minute it's a sponsored video, they're being paid for it. I'm like, eh, I'm out. Well, you're going on one man subjective point of view. Yeah. And I'm going on macro data. Right. Meaning people don't care.

27:58No, meaning you care, but not the masses. Okay. Right? Like there's an extraordinary amount of economy around humans that have started their own CPGs. And this room from the brand side had the advantages of retail, sales organization, supply chain, and then marketing being expensive. Now, between Shopify, Walmart, and Amazon's 3PL, and TikTok and social media, all of our huge moats have disintegrated in front of our eyes. We need to battle on actual relevance. And we're still stuck in brand positioning, classic campaign. We've got some work to do. For sure. This question, I think, will apply to so many people.

28:38And I'd love you to leverage maybe some work you've done with one of your clients within media. What are some entry-level ways to get food brands, legacy food brands, in front of influencers and live sellers? Sending direct messages on social media. You know, it's funny. When I hear that, I'm so empathetic because I live this day to day. You know, big brands do big brand things. It's just no different than, you know, the analogy is so easy, right? a huge battleship versus a little steamboat. Like you can direct message anyone on social that's an influencer or a creator or a live shopping host, they would be thrilled to hear from any brand in this room.

29:21So, but we don't think about hand-to-hand combat. We don't think about scaling unscalable behaviors here. We think in tech stacks, we think in scale. It's called going back to the grassroots. I remind everybody, every brand in this room, all of them, at least at the holding company level, because obviously there's been some innovation within companies, but at the holding company levels, these all started as small little brands where the founders went hand-to-hand combat. And so that's what everyone here can do. Go a bit further. You reach out to an influencer. Are you putting money on the table?

29:58Do you want to start a conversation? Don't they refer it to people slipping into my DMs? Well, you know, slipping into DMs, like, comes in all shapes and sizes, you know? That's a tweet right there. Carry on. You know, to your point, it's no different. I mean, it's even going back to dating dynamics or off-site conferences like this when it gets rowdy at 1 a.m. in the bar. Like, there's all different tacks. If a brand comes and DMs and is overly aggressive and really where they get hurt is when they send the same generic message to 500 different influencers. But if you actually reach out to an influencer and say, hey, that thing you did with chocolate, that chocolate fondue thing, are you passionate about chocolate?

30:43Obviously, you know, especially, let's just use Hershey's since they're sitting right here. You know, everybody knows what Hershey's is. If you're like, hey, we're interested in the content you make, we'd love to have a conversation about influencer marketing campaign, we're doing host, like, they're going to response to that. Now, the bigger they are, They're going to quickly be like, talk to my agent at UTA or William Morris, which for brands here, I would highly recommend trying to find people right before they get to that level because you're going to be able to make much better business deals for you.

31:10But, yeah, it's just all in the copyright. It's like if you're going for a Casey Neistat, you're going to be paying big bucks because he has such a huge following. That's right. But are there people that would advise organizations in this room on who is up and coming so they know who to look for and contact? Yeah, I mean, I would argue for the big brands in this room. I know there's retailers and there's some smaller brands that do marketing internally. I would say for the bigger brands in here, it's tough, man. Like, I have a lot of empathy for this. I'm very concerned about the agency ecosystem.

31:38I think over the last 20, 30 years, the agency ecosystem has lost its way. I think they worry about their P &Ls more than their clients' P &Ls. And the biggest issue with influencer marketing that I see is PR companies have the same 50 people on a list and they point it in front of people. And for me, if you look at my books that are up here right now, if you look at the bottom right, Day Trading Attention, we think the entire economy of attention and relevance is now on a day-to-day basis. This is not setting a campaign and three months later doing something. The speed in which we have to market is so much faster, and that's just where we're at.

32:14Have you reinvented your whole agency? Every day. I just had a meeting a few months ago where I told the entire agency, we're not an agency. I said we're a production company that happens to do creative media and strategy because I think any agency partner of any Fortune 5000 brand must produce output, cannot be paid for just thinking. Right. And I keep hearing over and over again, you've got to be a generalist in this world. You've got to be able to code, to build, to put content together, to get it out, to market. This seems to be paying extra dividends. You know, I think you have to be capable at everything.

32:50but then you have to be good at it. Like in my beloved space right now, the underpriced attention is definitely posting social creative organically and then watching what does well and then having a media plan. That's fine and dandy. That would be like me telling you that basketball players are getting paid a lot of money. Be a basketball player. You know, to be good at social creative, let me give you context. At Vayner, we have 113 people whose full-time job it is to understand what the algorithm is favoring. Just think about what I just said. Like all day long they look at the math, the quantum, the qual, to understand is it photos, is it videos, is it carousel ads, is threads underpriced, is Twitter X, YouTube shorts.

33:35Like it is a complicated landscape. I don't say this lightly when people do marketing internally. The problem is it's where the consumer's attention is. Right. And so like, you know, I wish marketing stopped 20 years ago. I had email, search, all figured out. but it was great but this game changes constantly I spent 100 hours last year on just Substack, how many people here are familiar with Substack? how many people here have never heard of Substack? don't lie, lying is the devil you know like Substack, a lot of hands for it and know it and people reading it, was a non-event 24 months ago, now an incredibly important place to go long form written content for a lot of brands and retailers here so stuff's always changing I'm almost scared to ask you this question.

34:20You just talked about your team and the work they do. We're at a point now where theoretically, not that you would because you're a people lover, you could replace half of that team with Claude Cowork, AI at its best. The most interesting thing that's happening in this room right now is that 25 % of the people in this room, its grandchildren, are going to marry an AI robot. Full-on marry, not just date? Full-on married. I'm not sure if you're a fan of the That didn't land so well. It didn't, did it? Care to extrapolate? Yes, I will. If a caveman walked in here right now, his opening line would be like, what the hell is going on?

35:03Like, things evolve. And, yeah, I mean, I am concerned about that. You're right. I do talk a lot about culture. I love culture over strategy every day of the week. I love people. It is my greatest gift. I think it's why I'm a good marketer. I'm overly empathetic so I understand what, you know, like I'm into it. But I am not naive nor do I have any interest in underestimating technology. Now, my belief is that in the macro, this job displacement that comes along with AI gets replaced by something else. I will die on that hill. It is the story as old as time. In the short term, the speed in which this could happen is complicated and is very much a United Nations issue, let alone a US or, like this is quite profound.

35:54I internally have talked about this a lot. I think leaders of bigger companies should be addressing this honestly. My point of view internally is in the short term, it is not AI that's taking anyone's job, It's a human being that uses AI that's going to take your job if you're not using it. To me, this is the computer. This is the internet. This is software and technology. In the long term, I'm going to say it again. We're having enough issues with race, gender, and religion when it comes to marriage. A lot of your grandchildren are going to marry an AI robot. Good Lord. Thank you. Just leave it like that.

36:36Keep them plugged in. When I say that, I say that again as a non-predictor. This is already happening in Japan. This is real. So when I say that, I talk about the size and scale. Notice how I used grandchildren. I talk about the size and scale of innovation changes over 50 and 100-year windows. There's a lot going on. Of course. In the short term, it's a profound technology that everybody should be taking serious, and they should be honest with their employees. there is no putting your head in the sand like I don't use AI because I have some moral principle against it. Your moral principle is you're scared you're going to lose your job.

37:14And I'm empathetic to that. But that means you should go on the offense with this weapon instead of fearing it. And you're right because you said this before. Refusing to use AI now is like saying we're sticking with candles to light things up around here. Next question from our audience. You've touched on this a bit, but any final thoughts? Stephanie goes first. A personal thank you to Gary Vee. My LinkedIn presence has grown from a few thousand follows to 120 ,000 following your advice. I'm a Gary Vee angelist. Question. In a market dominated by big brands, social media can help level the playing field.

37:47What additional advice do you have for smaller candy companies trying to win shelf space? You've touched on live selling. What else? Winning on shelf space in 2026 when you're a small brand is building your direct-to-consumer business to an extreme level and winning on relevance with younger consumers because retailers will then want you. Hey everybody, I hope you're enjoying the podcast right now. Make sure you follow the podcast. That's why I'm interrupting. Let's keep going on this show but follow the podcast. It'll make my mom super happy. My biggest, almost all my clients besides my investments are big companies and all I'm trying to do is get them to act in a contemporary way because retailers are literally taking my big clients' money in retail media and giving it to their own private label execution and even paying smaller relevant brands that are winning on social and live shopping to get into the store because retailers are worried about losing a younger consumer.

38:44So for the small brands, continue what you're doing, bet even more on organic social media creative, get it measured, and then run your media play and run your live shopping play. But for the big brands in this room, friends, you're getting outspent. You have literally 50 times more money than them, and you're getting outspent because we're wasting so much money on potential reach, and we're not invested enough in social organic production. Our production dollars are going to classic campaign work. Big brands that have 50 to 200 times more money than small brands in actualization of relevance and attention consumption are being outspent.

39:24wow yeah it's a real wow and it's showing up I'm sorry to interrupt it's why these numbers are really happening Kurt you know this we've been at Pepsi for 13 years all my jargon you're hearing fell on deaf ears not because Pepsi didn't know I was empathetic first of all 13 years ago talking about this stuff was really out there second of all they weren't feeling it in the P &L and then over a short window you have prime energy drink you have liquid death and you have pop and all of a sudden it's like, wait a minute, right? And these kids don't play fair. They invite offspring of founders to interview them about what they feel about product.

40:06They have advantages on relevance. And we're running television and outdoor and print and campaigns. We must win here. My friends, this is the dominant platform of our society. Whether you like it or not, I don't like it. I'm 50. I don't like it, but I don't have feelings when it comes to business. And like anyone in here that does not understand, this dominates the attention. And outside of this, what dominates the attention is streaming services that don't even have commercials. And so like we have to make some real adjustments really fast. I remember you years ago holding up your phone saying this is television.

40:48It is. Because that was the way that people thought about it. Okay, so dig a bit deeper for us because people are sitting here thinking, all right, okay, we've got to start producing content. Now, you've got your own people, you can select your own stars, but now there's AI, which actually creates video content that looks quite decent on a phone. How far should we use that versus real people? This is going to be another advantage little companies have over big companies. Like McDonald's had a day with it the other day. Didn't they? Like the big companies in here are going to have to wait for 24 to 36 months for the stigma of AI advertising to go away because the consumer is pushing back on us because subconsciously they're worried about their own jobs with AI, so they're pushing back verbally, and that's making us stuck at a standstill.

41:32Small brands can play with it a little bit more because they can get away with it more, like liquid death and things of that nature. Isn't it the same customer base who are also worried about AI? It is and it isn't, but we, unfairly, in my opinion, but anybody can have a subjective call on this. We hold up bigger companies to different standards, which I understand. I understand how corporations are viewed in society. So no, even though they may be the same consumable customer, the way they will treat a Fortune 500 versus a startup is extremely different. But I will say this. The reason a lot of those startups can get away with it is they've won credibility by winning with relevance in these platforms where we've stayed silent.

42:18interesting. What do you go to video production AIs? Are you a Sora guy? Are you prefer GenSpark? You know this. Nano Banana will come out with something tomorrow and the next day, Claude will, like, you don't even have time to be a fan of something. That's right. You know, the speed in which these AI companies evolve is profound. And so I believe the end state of this is the creative production technology is happening within the platform that the distribution's happening in. So you will be in a meta environment, in a ByteDance environment, in a Google environment, in a Microsoft environment where you're creating because they're going to have the first party data of what creative over index is within their platform.

43:00This is going to get very, you know, integrated with the 12 to 15 super scaling technology companies having disproportionate advantages. It's funny. I call it personally, I call it leapfrog theory. They leapfrog over each other. You think this is cool, then the next one leapfrog. But what you're saying, I think, is they're all going to end up at the same capability, in other words, max capability. Yeah, I do think AI creation is going to find its way to being into a similar place as big data. You know, 13 years ago, we all talked about big data. And then you realize, wait a minute, the IRS, Visa, MasterCard, Walmart, like there's a lot of sources, meta.

43:37I think they're going to find themselves in a place that's similar-ish. Next question. Anonymous, you seem to operate in such a fast, nimble way, even as a business at scale. What can big CPG businesses learn from how you operate? That fake reports are a big problem. The only reason I move fast is I do not create a fake ecosystem that benefits my financial situation. meaning I have built successfully in the last 15 years one of the largest independent global agencies in the world. We are so far ahead of everyone in making relevant social creative for these channels. Meanwhile, in 36 to 48 months, we will be fully commoditized because the platforms will do it themselves.

44:27That's right. So I spend all my time currently building on the other side of the world that I see which is the barbell. extreme digitalization and extreme analog. I'm actually incredibly bullish experiential marketing, real world events, like the real world is gonna rise. Running clubs and events like this, like being here. I'm incredibly bullish real world. And so Vayner, as a production company, is all focused on live shopping production because for a while that will have to be not AI, though that will get there, and experiential. And so the reason I want to be nimble for who anybody asks that is I'd rather put myself out of business than let someone else do it.

45:13Got it. Let me ask you a tough question. If you decided tomorrow you're going to take one of Elon's rockets and fly to Mars and the agencies were left behind, no further contact, would they continue without you? Or are you the power that drives them? I'm the power that drives them. I mean, my companies would do fine, but they would decline over time. I always laugh about this. People ask this a lot about me because I'm the founder and I am who I am. And I always laugh about it because I think it's much more vulnerable to be an investor or in an environment where the CEO does change every six to nine years.

45:53Yeah. You know, like a founder-led business, like I know that I could die, but like it's likely I won't, you know, please God. You know, so, you know, but it's like, business is like sports. If you take the best player off a team, like the team's not as good. And so I'm proud of my team. I've got a company that's 15 years old. This is the thing I'm the most proud of that's about to come out of my mouth. I have over 150 employees that have been there for 10 plus years. Wow. I built real culture. We have real continuity. People know the religion. But, I mean, I'm the best fucking player. And so brutally honest.

46:39I know I wasn't supposed to curse, but that one just came out. It's real. I'm sorry. I'm from Jersey. I apologize. It's fine. You're amongst friends. Okay. Time is running out. So quick fire round. And first of all, we've had a lot of chat this morning about the generations, the generational differences. Gen Alpha, Gen Z, Millennials. Your perspective on the generations very briefly? There's always subtle differences, but I would argue we spend way too much time thinking about the differences versus the similarities. There is not a business in here, retail or CPG, that shouldn't be winning on relevance with as many different consumer segmentations as possible, thus rendering this conversation mute.

47:20You should all be selling to everyone. The addressable market to everyone in here is anyone that is willing to consume this product which goes through many generations, really outside of people that are probably overly health conscious and have like a line in the sand on ingredients. Everybody else is in play for us. And you should be relevant to a 73-year-old and a 37-year-old and a 15-year-old and on and on and on. So to me, I think it's a conversation that I think about like oxygen. Like why wouldn't I try to sell to everyone? Thus, I'm not thinking about like the things that a lot of other people are thinking about.

47:59To me, it's every day I'm trying to win with all of them. Like nothing's gonna change about that. Obviously, the other thing is I think there's way too many generalizations. For example, I know unlimited lazy boomers. Just like that. Yeah. And meanwhile, there's plenty of Gen Z that is incredibly hardworking. Sure, generalizations have truths in them, but I think we get overly emotional about it. We need to be marketing to many different consumer segmentations anyway, and so that's how my brain thinks about it. I've heard you be asked the question, what do you do in your time off? And your answer was, I build new businesses.

48:39Do you take any time to yourself? Oh, a lot. I mean, I sleep seven, eight hours a night. I take seven to 12 weeks of vacation off a year because I have a 16 and 13 year old. I'm just wildly productive when I'm working. Right. Like, I'm not some psycho that's going to burn out. I just think it's crazy when you have huge ambitions to take a bullshit two hour lunch. I love that. Two final questions. Let me say one other thing for the executives of this room on this issue. This is the single most important thing I'm gonna say all day. Every business here will get much better if you stop making meetings an hour when they're actually 30 minutes worth of work.

49:24Definitely. Absolutely right. Notice, that was my most universal-liked thing. Just like that. We all know this. We will fit and your teams will fit the work into the time allotted. Of course. No question the biggest breakthrough for me about seven or eight years ago was the 15-minute meeting. The 30-minute meetings that are really 15, the hours that are really 30, the two hours that are really an hour, they can change an organization. This is not about burning yourself out. This is about many people in this room are similar to me. They are passionate and enjoy being executives and operators. But this is about effectiveness when you're actually on the playing field.

50:07The 30-minute meeting line landed a lot better than the marrying robots line. Yes. Which I thought was great. Okay. I've been asked a couple of times, what's your favorite candy? I'm just going to be... Listen, if you follow... How many people here follow me a little bit? Just by show of hands. Thank you. And by the way, that was not enough hands. I'm really pissed again. I love to keep it real. I will keep it very real since this is all saw on the internet 17 ,000 times because I love talking about my favorite candy. my favorite candy of all time is a Whatchamacallit bar. Okay, well, thank you very much.

50:42You've got some fans. And my last one, we're going to take a 360 selfie at the end, but my last question before we do that is, basically, your final words of wisdom to this incredible crowd. Obviously, a lot of people are thinking deeply about these very new ideas to them. What is your parting advice? We talk about a lot of words, and they're buzzwords, and then we don't really live it. Authenticity, culture, we know this. We know our shortcomings about talking about things and not living it. The disproportionate thing that you must live true in this next half decade, it's only a five-year statement because so much is changing, we must get obnoxiously consumer-centric.

51:25I am flabbergasted by the ability of the Fortune 5000 to have fake reports justifying behaviors that none of the executives even believe in. This is a humongous problem. Brand lifts, you can't measure brand. Bro, you can't measure brand. Measuring brand is like measuring love and God. You have reports that you believe that do it, but we must get much more consumer centric. The retailers must bring more value. the suppliers must and we must bring common sense back to the boardroom. That. We are lacking it. We love that. What a great message. Everybody if you enjoyed this podcast please go back and look at the prior episodes.

52:15They're loaded. I appreciate your attention and thanks for being part of this journey. See you later.