The Art of Accountability and Why It’s the Key to Happiness | CREATIVO Podcast with Roberto Mtz

0:00This is the Gary Vee Audio Experience. Hey everybody, actually, if you're a really hardcore listener and you know I never do this, I'm sorry to be jumping in the middle of the podcast. If this podcast has ever meant anything to you, please go to Spotify or Apple right now and leave a review. By the way, even if you give me a one-star review because you think it's shit, I respect it. But just leave a review, an actual review. Four or five stars and the actual details of why. Yeah, that would mean something for me. So thanks. Now back to the podcast. The train. The television. The telephone. the automobile the phone these are electricity these are monster monster I promise you before there was cars it's just not that long ago not that long ago people were all over the city on horses not that long ago brother the number one thing I know is that humans will resist new technologies it's what we do and for the small group of us that are the other way there's great opportunity to create and build and I enjoy that.

1:10I'm a software engineer and I made an AI version of myself which actually hosts one episode per month of this show. Good for you. I think that's the future. What do you think about that? Oh, 100%. I think humans are going to be the intellectual property owners of themselves, of other humans. There's so much coming. So much coming. Yeah, I see that as me licensing my image. 100%. It's all NIL. Yeah. It's all name, image, and likeness. And I heard in your book that you also mentioned the mascot aspect of companies. Yes. AI is a form of a mascot for a human being. 100%. I think that's right. Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people are going to be freaked out by it at first.

1:56There's a lot of resistance. A ton. Yeah. There's resistance to electricity. You know that? Yeah. When electricity was invented, most human beings around the world, especially in Latin America, by the way, said that there was demons inside of it. Yeah, yeah. And they'd rather have candles. And there was resistance to... To writing. To everything. To radio, to television. To everything. How do you think we should treat these virtual versions of ourselves, talking about AI? Should we seem like an extension of ourselves or as another character that looks like us? Like what's the? I think the right way is yes, meaning both.

2:37Yeah. I think it's gonna be all of the above. I should make a virtual dog and build up that profile. Why not? I should have a version of myself, a variation of myself. Me and girl form. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why not? You could actually pursue different careers. 100%. there's so much that's coming and it's big stuff. It's crazy. It is definitely big stuff. Like I don't view this next wave of AI and VR and virtual as some small little thing. It's big. And that will come with societal anxiety and new norms. There are people in Japan in full-pledged relationships with VTubers. Literally dating people that are virtual.

3:20That's crazy. But that being crazy, is no different than many things that have happened through the history of humans. It was crazy to live to 100. It was crazy to date someone from the opposite sex. It was crazy to date someone from the opposite religion. It was crazy to not have children. It was crazy to not get married. It was crazy to get married if you go further back. Everything's crazy until it's not. Yeah, but I think it's a different kind of crazy. like it's but that's what everybody says yeah yeah it's the same speech when somebody said when I did when the version of me said no no we're all gonna take airplanes and the other person said that's a different level of crazy I would say well that's what they said when we did boats people never left their land and took to the water but then if somebody invented the boat and they did and then the plane I get it marrying a computer sounds weird to everyone right now or to marry code, but I do not believe that will be weird in 500 years.

4:27I don't. And that's just that. Because I promise you if a caveman was reincarnated right now and walked in here, he would struggle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a lot's fucking happened. But a guy from the 1950s will struggle. That's right. Like the exponential progress in the last 30 years has been insane. That's right. We've turned from linear to exponential. Would you agree on that? A hundred percent. So the world is getting smaller, technology is bringing us closer together, making us go further apart. It's always doing the same shit. What's going on right now that's interesting is people are not choosing optimism.

5:04What's going on right now is that everyone's scared because politicians are being very effective in scaring people. And fear controls people. Yeah. I agree. If you think about, for example, making your way from New York to LA a couple of hundred years ago, that would take months and some people would die in the process. A hundred years ago. Right now you could take a - A hundred years ago. Yeah, yeah. A hundred years ago. One hundred years ago. 1924. But do you think there's a point in this technological evolution that we're not really going to understand the implications of what we discover? Sure.

5:41Because for example, right now we have big data, we have all this - What about the atomic bomb? Yeah. And there was a bomb created by human beings that killed an ungodly amount of people in Japan. It was terrible. Horrific. The gun. Somebody invented it. Like, if you go far back enough, why does anyone get killed by anyone? Sure. Right? But they killed them with a stick if it wasn't a gun and there was a knife. And like, of course. Do I think that we're going to create robots that may kill people? Sure, might happen. It's real life. I just don't fear because I am optimistic about human beings because human beings have proven for thousands and thousands of years that we are just, this doomsday, it's over.

6:28Social media, robots, AI. I don't know. Because I promise you if the four of us were having dinner in 1950 after the atomic bomb was invented, I don't know if any of us would have believed that for the next 74 years nobody would use one. Yeah. After it was just used. I think the most underrated thing in the world is the human spirit. Yeah, and I agree because there's like these human tendencies that don't necessarily repeat over the years, but are continuously present. Like, for example, in the book you talk about collectibles that are coming back from the 80s, from the 70s, from the 50s, from the 60s.

7:11History maybe does not repeat itself, but it kind of rhymes. Like this is like a radio show in a way. That's exactly right. Very well said. So there's going to be some elements of the human nature that are going to transcend these new tools and we're still going to be necessary. I'm an optimist as well in this sense. But I think this new technology, like there's biotechnology, there's big data, there's quantum physics. Yeah, quantum physics, but in computer science. That's right. What's going to happen when all these things intersect? What's going to happen when four things that you and I couldn't dream of get invented in the next 10, 20 years?

7:57I mean, let me ask you a question. Do you think that people are going to live outside Earth? I don't know. It's an interesting question because I think there's two ways about thinking it. Forget about that. Just for fun. Just when you and I are hanging out in heaven. in 400 years. We're going to be having a podcast. Yeah, and when I walk by you, I'm like, hey, remember in 2024 when we were alive? Do you believe in 400 years people live outside of Earth? I think the metaverse makes a really interesting argument against it because we're turning more sedentary than ever. So we may create something virtually that substitutes the necessity humans have of exploring.

8:39So I don't know. Because there's this, like for example uh do you know what the fermi paradox is the fermi paradox is is this this question about if there has been so much time in the universe and and and there has been a lot of time for for an intelligent species to develop and to explore the universe where are they like if there's aliens where are they and and there's this hypothesis called transcension that it actually says that intelligent species eventually evolved so much that they surpass the necessity to travel space because they create their own reality. And I think we're seeing that in the metaverse.

9:16So we're definitely going to live in a different form and even in a different space. But maybe it's a space that we created, which is kind of interesting. I think all of that is valid. Like, for example, the... Before you move on. Yeah. When I see you in heaven, in 400 years, do you subjectively, I don't expect you to know, nobody who's listening knows. It's just a simple question. As you sit here today as a young man, in this moment of your life, not to be historically correct or not, because good news will be dead. But do you believe in 400 years that humans, human beings that live on earth today, will evolve to a place where our great, great, great grandchildren live on a planet outside of earth?

10:00Do you think? if we find a really attractive planet that it's viable I think we would yeah do you think we have the capacity to alter or create ways to be on those planets where it is viable because I think we're educated enough that there's things as humans right now like it's too cold it's too hot do you think we will have the capacity to alter it? yeah I think so me too and that's it like that was it that's the whole thing for me on this subject yeah Like, I think you affirmed your actual in-depth optimism there. Yeah, sure. This concept that I sit here today, and I know everything that the human species is capable of over the next 400 years, in a world where we just invented the internet recently, in a world where we invented electricity, in a world where we invented dams, like, why on earth are humans not capable of continuing to grow out of necessity potentially, environmentally, or out of curiosity, exploring, which is our fucking gift, why on earth would we not figure it the fuck out?

11:08It seems too obvious to me on that than what most people think is the alternative. They're using the logic of what they know now. Yes, I understand right now it's not clear to you how we're gonna go up to the moon and fucking chill. But it wasn't clear to people how they were going to leave their continent 500 years ago. Yeah, I agree. I agree. And I think that's a really big thing I admire about you because you have these visions of the near future that are really difficult to express. And 10 years from that declaration, it seems like really actual, Like, for example, I don't know how this cartoon is called in English, but in Spanish it's Supersonicos, which is the Flintstones and the guys from the future.

12:02The Jetsons. The Jetsons, yes. Yes. There's something called retrofuturism, which means that it's kind of like exploring the path that we didn't travel. Like, if you see the visions of Back to the Future of the Jetsons, it's kind of like a childish dream, no? Yes. But you don't get that with your visions. That's really big. especially now. I don't like to guess. Yeah. I'd rather say nothing. And I just think that there's, you know, back to intuition and improvisation, certain things come natural to me when it comes to humans. I think, again, one of the great things about getting older, one of the, you know, I brought it up again, I'll bring it up again, one of my dreams for heaven is you get the answers to everything.

12:49You know, I think we all have skills and talents and I definitely feel like I have a very special relationship with humans.

13:01I feel very connected to the other eight billion of them. I like them. You know, I believe in them. I believe in us. I've watched so many people who are literally scared of every other person. And it breaks my heart. Do you know that I often say, Dustin's about to laugh, I always talk about like, I don't like dogs. And it's an inside joke to myself because what it represents for me is that people blindly love dogs. But they don't blindly love people. And I wish it was the other way around. Why do you think that happens? Because of the media? Because of the politicians, the division, the polarization?

13:42Yeah, I mean look, the media and politicians have always been around. I think parenting, DNA, how animals work, where animals, like, I think there's a lot there. but I think that I will say this and I've been spending time on this with myself cynicism and anger and fear and darkness is easy sure optimism and hope and love is hard so I think a lot of people just choose the easy path yeah sure it's easier to go and destroy somebody's sandcastle but it's way harder to build your own, right? I believe in it the most, brother. My favorite, it's fun to say this with this view. I always say, I'm sure it sounds like you've listened to me enough to have heard this before but for people listening for the first time, there's two ways, a different way to say it.

14:36There's two ways to build the biggest building in town. Build it. Or build a little one and tear everyone else's down. And a lot of people choose the latter. And that's unfortunate. and then people get thrown off. Many humans are not strong enough emotionally that when they are hurt, they then deploy that as everyone will do that to them. Yeah. And they close up. For me, when people hurt me, when people have bad intent towards me, I view them as an enigma, an anomaly, a rarity. And I believe in that. I also think that you have a really valuable skill in the future that is this intuitiveness, but it's an informed intuitiveness because your process of, for example, the process of creating ads that you share in your book that first start with organic content that perform well in social media, like it's an intuition, but it's like somebody that did his homework and then uses that information to make these observations, right?

15:42Yeah, there's momentum. Like I always had the intuition, but the experience and the pattern recognition and the momentum and then that deep trust. I trust my intuition in a way that I know most don't and I wish they did. For me, here's why. When I trust my intuition, it's always a winning outcome even if it's a losing outcome. This goes into self-esteem. This is why I talk so much about it. If I worried about what everybody thought about me, I would do nothing. And that's why so many people do nothing. They worry about judgment of others. It's one thing to worry about your parents or your significant others or somebody who admires judgment.

16:25But there's people that are scared of strangers' judgment. And it's really hurt the world. Yeah, this confidence that you have is because you pursue what really interests you and you have the guts to fail with your own idea because this term intuition is like a really complicated one because if you're not all in with your intuition, you, in a way, outsource success to somebody else. Yes. And you need to be in control of that. So even if you fail, it's a successful outcome because you're in control of your next steps. It's so well said, my friend, but there's another part of the meal. There's a very key ingredient to make all this work.

17:08Humility. Yeah. You know, none of that would work if I wasn't accountable to when I'm wrong. One of the quickest ways I know that somebody will be limited in their achievements is predicated on how much they blame others. Yeah. Or they complain. Yeah, there's actually a quote here that says, the one person you need to hold accountable is you. I agree. That's Accountable Ant, one of my favorite V friends. This room is called Accountable Ant. I believe accountability is the precursor to happiness. I believe it is foundational to happiness. I think when sometimes people hear me say that, they think of themselves right now and they're at home beating themselves up.

17:55You're not being accountable, you're being unfair to yourself. Accountable is accepting the truth after the fact. You know what I mean? Like I tried to do this, it didn't work. I could blame Dustin, but I hired Dustin to film it. I could blame Dustin, but I could have looked at the edit. If this video, like once you're just always knowing that it's you, it gets good. Yeah. You know? Because then you don't feel like someone else is in control. Yeah, I agree 100%. And you need to build like this architecture of your life that you can hold yourself accountable. And I think a big part of it, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, is to build metrics that depend on your work and not on other people.

18:37Like, for example, if you start a podcast, one big goal could be make it to 100 episodes instead of make it to a million subscribers or followers because it depends on your work. And you create a life that with your work you can win because then it's another person's game or there's this external influence, which obviously you prefer. You prefer to have success. You prefer to do... How old are you? I'm 31. you got your shit together brother thank you you know and I see it because I remember being 31 and understanding this too now you have the luxury of a lot more information than I had at 31 I wish and I don't like using that sentence but it would have been great forget about I wish because I don't even like it it would have been wonderful if I grew up in the era like it's so advanced on how you're thinking and I had that naturally I had a mother that I think was a huge impact and it just came natural to me but yeah man if if you know i really hope that you get great success because then you'll have influence and i hope that kids listen to you thank you brother i read your last book for this interview and i read also your jab jab jab right hook because i i heard in the introduction that it was like a a prequel to the book no yeah day training attention originally was called Jab, Jab, Jab, Left Hook.

19:59Both books were trying to accomplish the same thing, which is talk deeply about why organic social media content matters. Yeah. I actually heard the audiobook version and I was impressed about your improvisation skills. Oh, when I called, yeah. Is that like an always on part of your life? Yes. It might be my biggest strength. Yeah. Yeah, very much. It's how my sense of humor is. It's more improv than stand-up. It's a big part of my creative process. And yes, what you got to see that day was how many of the best things that have ever happened to me have happened. You know, I sense something. It could happen to me during this interview.

20:41Yeah. Actually happens a lot when I'm interviewed because questions are taking me down different paths than I'm taking my own self. Yeah. Yeah, I actually got really inspired by that because I have published two books and I was thinking about making the audiobook version and I actually fell in love with that version because it was like a podcast. A hundred percent. Yeah. You would be great at it. And since the early days, you were like that? Like since? As a child even? Yeah. Yeah. I was very disruptive in class because if I had an idea, even if my teacher was presenting, I just never was able to contain my enthusiasm, my passion.

21:16And I've always allowed it. I didn't want to contain it. I think today in society, through medicine and through parenting and through society, we try to contain art. I think it's a huge mistake. Yeah, and I think it's an essential part of making, of keeping the artistic process alive. Like, I'm a really big David Lynch fan. Yes. And I've heard interviews about his creative process, and he calls them happy accidents when those kind of eureka moments happen, like, on site. I don't even, to your point, it's funny where we're going with this. I don't even think about it any other way. I actually think scheduled or structured creative brainstorms by nature have already eliminated the opportunity for it to be truly creative.

22:02Yeah. And how do you professionalize that? Because structure is sometimes like a necessary process to become a professional at certain... I think that's very well said. The way I do it is through culture. Okay. So what I mean by that is, to your point, I have a 2 ,500 person global marketing company that only scheduleizes its brainstorming and things of that nature. But the culture of eliminating fear is actually the single most important variable of creativity. Okay. So let's break that down. The real artists of the world, in whatever genre, they're less scared. Yeah. Yeah, and it's a really important part in social progression to have that artist mindset, because I was watching a couple of months ago this really cool documentary of Netflix.

23:04I don't remember how it's called, but it documents the studio life of this really big artist. and there was this girl called Nettie Oxman and she had like this graph that that tried to represent human progress and it all started with art because art usually asks like the questions about what's next and they don't necessarily have the skills or the or the knowledge to materialize it but they they think out outside of the box once the artist asks that question it's then the job of the of science to provide like the building blocks of the idea. And then it turns down to engineering, and then it eventually turns out to design.

23:48And then the design is the input for the new generation of artists to start the cycle all over again. So you need that artistic mindset to think forward, right? Yeah, I mean, the way I see the world is math and art are foundational, and incredibly special and some people over-index very heavily to one side or the other. My great gift that I'm thankful for is I think I blur those lines. I value both very much and to double-click into what you just said, that's exactly right. I mean, if black and white ruled the world, everything would be figured out. So to me, the gray, the art, is profoundly important.

24:36And really, so much of our passions as human beings sit in art. And art comes in so many shapes and forms, not just the way most people think about them. You know, food. I think for us, we've all lived in an era where food is art. Like, we respect chefs today. Fifty years ago, the chefs were help. Yeah, sure. Looked down on. So I think we keep evolving and understanding art. And I mean, I agree that it is probably the most wonderful currency in our society. And there's like a potential to find a canvas in every form of work. Do you think so? Like everybody can find the artistic value in their own work.

25:20Oh, gosh. I mean, my sense of art is pretty broad. Like I think it is, I think the way I manage people is art. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. how do you build this sense of culture because i've been following you for a couple of years and you're like this voice sometimes inside my head like you have these phrases that eventually i i think about it especially when i had an agency in mexico how do you build that sense of culture i think by taking on the responsibility that you work for everybody and not that they work for you okay i think the reason i've been able to do things is real leadership is to make it good for for them, not for your pocket.

26:03So I think intent, starts with intent. Do you want to have a good culture or do you say it and not mean it and what you want to do is have a good P &L? You know, if you're gonna invest in culture when you manage a lot of people, it's gonna come at the expense of profit. Sure. You know? And so, and I don't mean like you throw parties and you have a foosball table in your office. I mean the grace and patience you give employees to get there instead of firing them costs a lot of money. I can't even comprehend how many tens of millions of dollars I've lost by giving people more room over the last 30 years to have them not deliver.

26:51But it has a higher impact on the overall culture when you're a place that tries to be like that. and how do you like verbalize all that all that that you said like you know in a business perspective like how do you convince everybody that that's the right path to to follow because you had a lot of success with this mindset but how can you pursue or persuade sorry everyone else that that's the way to go by not having passion on persuading or convincing i'm not in the convincing business i'm in the conviction business i don't control the other man and woman on the other side of this podcast. I can only speak from the happiness and the joy and the truth that I live.

27:34And I'm aware that it may impact someone in a way. But I think when people get focused on convincing and persuading, that that is ego. I have no interest in everybody doing it my way or believing in my way. I have interest in oversharing it with the hope that it brings other people joy at the same level that it's brought me joy. Yeah, it's like a stoic perspective that you're only responsible for what you can say but not what others can interpret. I also think, you know, yes, and I also think it's the most common sense. You know, to me, sometimes what makes, when I hear stoic or stoicism, it makes me smile because in my brain, it's, I think of it sometimes as common sense.

28:17In what world do I have control over you? You know, I think people are very insecure and I worry about that and I think Gary Vee exists because I hate insecurity. You know, I want to champion people to get more confident, to be more happy but I am not audacious enough to think that I've got it figured out. I'm just passionate to over communicating what I see. You're also a really intuitive guy like in the best sense of the word. You've been, I read your jab, jab, jab, right hook and you made some bold predictions that turn out to be like really really right yeah I know that you you've never described them as predictions you just you describe them as observations as observations because you're really cutting edge like in the bleeding edge of the I can do it right now virtual influencers social shopping like it's all happening right now but I'm so in it I just see it earlier a lot of times than the 99 % yeah you were actually a really big voice in my conscience because I miss the TikTok wave early in the day.

29:23Yes. But right now I'm really into the AI wave. Coming back to this improvisational nature, I'm also a really big fan of your talks. I'm a speaker as well. And you've influenced me a lot because you have like this reverse engineering process with the audience, which I find fascinating because it makes every talk kind of different because you're like responding to the audience feeling. That's right. Like when did it all start? because it takes God because I had like that really static talk and then I took the leap of faith and I like if Gary Vee does it I can do it as well and I started doing and right now I have so much fun in this public event and it's better right?

30:00It's a lot better you grow a lot actually Look so here's probably the most flattering thing that has ever happened in my career I'd never done television Wine Library TV pops off in 2007 and I get invited to do the Conan O 'Brien show this is at the height of late night television in America in 2007 we don't pre-rehearse I did not know that that was unusual later I did Ellen DeGeneres later I did the Today Show later I did a lot of TV and they would always rehearse our thing Conan didn't because he's an improv he's a writer he's a fucking genius I go and do the thing you can find it on YouTube anybody just type in Gary Vaynerchuk Conan O 'Brien and it's fucking fire like I don't love to get like I let others give me love I'm confident and I'll talk in a certain way but like I won't say that was I'm a baby but it was it was good yeah right and it's funny and the time like what you've observed the timings right it's and it's straight fucking improv like at the highest level yeah America's watching there's a studio and I'd never done television at the height of it first thing I've ever done that's crazy and it kills it's the last segment of the show it ends he goes good night America thanks carry me good night America show ends and he turns to me and he goes where do you do comedy and i'm like no no i'm a wine guy and he said get the fuck out of here i don't think i understood how smart conan was and how like respected in comedy improv writing i didn't really know yet at the time it's one of the greatest compliments i've ever been given one of the really profoundly talented yeah you know comedians of a generation from a writing from an improv standpoint on one interaction with me thought I was a comedian and so to answer your question similar to that night I think maybe a year earlier was the first time I gave a speech down in Florida it was immediate the first keynote I ever gave was in that style I have never in my life prepped had slides now as you know because you listen a lot it's not that I have a canned speech I have things that are in my mind in periods of time and if I'm speaking a lot of it you have like riffs huh yeah I have riffs because they're there and they're real yeah and some of them are jokes that I'll go to them um but yes I think one of the reasons I've had a big speaking career is I'm contextual yeah right if I go to Mexico right now and go give a talk I'm gonna make references to maybe what they did in the world cup or what's happening in popular culture in a novella or like I'm you know I'm going to I'm contextual and then that I'm contextual to the audience.

32:41If I'm speaking to a bunch of roofers, that's different than me speaking to a bunch of CMOs. If I'm speaking at a collectibles conference, that's different than I'm speaking to a B2B SaaS industry. And I have such a wide breadth of knowledge because I'm a practitioner, that I'm always ready to speak. Yeah, I think you're contextual but without losing your essence. Yeah. And you're also really good at recognizing patterns, which I think that's the essence of intelligence. Like it's maybe a really systematic approach to intelligence, but I really believe that intelligence is recognizing patterns and you're really good at perceiving people and acting upon it, right?