The ROI of Pent-Up Demand: Knicks Mania and the Future of Media

0:00Yes, I dislike those kids. It's my son. I do not like your son. This is the Gary Vee Audio Experience. New York Knicks, they have reached the NBA Finals for the first time since 1999, and chairs of Madison Square Garden Sports are at an all-time high. Doing this right now to discuss Knicks mania and the business around the NBA Finals is Gary Vaynerchuk, Vayner Media CEO, Vayner X Chairman. Good morning to you. Before you, when you came in, I said, did you get your ticks yet? You said you haven't locked them in. So what are you going to pay for these things? Whatever the market says I need to pay for that.

0:34So have you seen some of the prices? No, I missed it. Of course, I've seen the price. I mean, first of all, let's talk about how diehard I actually am. I'm going I'm talking about Oklahoma City and San Antonio. I'm going to game one. I'm flying to game one. So first of all, I'm going to game one where I have a funny feeling the tickets will be a little bit cheaper. Yes. And then what's that? Maybe, maybe, you know, I'm a Jersey boy from the streets. Don't bougie me up. And yeah, it's fascinating to watch. And it really, you know, so much of what you all talk about here, market dynamics, it's interesting to watch play out when there's that much demand pent up for two and a half, three decades.

1:10It's funny and shocking to see how it plays out in price. What's the highest price you've seen so far? I think the last two days, right, was a$250 ,000. I said something like that. Yeah. What about all your collectibles? Well, that's been great. I mean, my son and I, brother, others, like the amount of Brunson and Karl-Anthony Towns. I've been buying up Josh Hartz and OG Ananobis because if this team wins, I mean, we're still talking about a dunk that John Starks made almost 30, you know, years ago, 30 plus years ago. And we didn't even win a title. If this team wins the title, all the collectibles around it go through the roots.

1:43If they win, it changes everything. If they lose, do we just go back to the start? I want to remind everybody, all those Knicks that we go crazy for at the Garden, besides Walt Clyde Frazier, none of them won either. You know, getting to the finals. And Mike Francesa said something on sports radio 40 years ago that I'll never forget. He said, New York loves the Giants. They love the Yankees. But this is a Knicks town. And I think you can really see it play out. There's just something different that happens when the Knicks make a run. And it's obviously thrilling to everybody who's actually a diehard.

2:17Do you like Jim Dolan now? I never disliked Jim Dolan. Truly. Truly. Most people in New York City who were Knicks fans thought that this was like one of the most mismanaged teams in the history of basketball. Andrew, I'm not most people. Like, I'm just really strong and not being overly emotional about things that I don't control. In your heart of hearts, speaking of hearts, who would you prefer? The Knicks to face? The Spurs. I personally think we match up better with the Spurs. Because of that guy. Honestly, can I tell you why I want to match up with the Spurs? I just don't want to hate SGA.

2:49It's impossible. And that's what's going to happen if we play them. The flippity-floppity, like, it just will forever. I mean, you know, and he's a good kid, and I like him, and, like, I just don't want to hate him, but I will hate him. Like, just on the record, at the end of that series, it will be hate, and it will be hate forever. Study and play. Come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the Unreal College deal. Everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller.

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4:07You cannot argue with the last 11 games that the Knicks won. The streak that they went on by sweeping both the Cavs and the Sixers is amazing. But if you look at the record for the Knicks versus the Eastern Conference this season, it was 18-12. For Oklahoma City versus the Eastern Conference, it was 23-7. And for the Spurs, it was 26-4. Is the West that much better than the East? I mean, the Thunder has definitely been the best team this year. So, you know, I think they are. I mean, we beat the Spurs multiple times this year. Like, we match up with the Spurs. You know, Mitch and Kat know what to do with Wemby in a way that most teams can't match up.

4:42That's interesting. And so, you know this. every single event, every fight, every sporting event, styles make fights, it's matchups. It's also timing. It's also timing. And those two teams, it's very important that San Antonio wins game six. They beat each other up and set us up. Prediction markets you play. I don't. You don't. You know, it's really funny. I'm sure you I mean, I know. Excuse me. I consume this. I know you guys talk about this all the time. I think we're in a very interesting time in popular culture where we need more detailed conversations of the difference between investing and gambling.

5:13Yep. You know, I agree with that. And so I don't, I'm not against it. Anybody can do whatever they want. As long as it's legal, go have fun. For me, the way I prediction market is I'd rather go out and buy, you know, a trading card that I think is a collectible and valuable. If I think something's going to happen versus pure gambling, not that I'm against it. I did plenty of it in my twenties in Vegas, but not, no, I do not. Okay. And as somebody who I think understands media better than most. This is going to be a big finals in large part because New York's a huge market. It's the biggest market in the world.

5:43This is going to be huge for NBC, for Peacock. This is actually going to work for them. Yes, it is. There had been a question about whether they had overpaid for the NBA because regular season ratings don't hold up. People seem to be watching the clips. We love to watch the dunks. We watch it on social, but people are not necessarily willing to sit through two and a half, three hours of a game. Yes. But once again, when we We talk about things that are nuanced, but advertisers are buying the media. Right. And obviously, to your point, if the ratings don't sustain, then over time they won't. But this has been monumentally large for the people that paid up for sports.

6:19And let's call it a very important thing that's happening for everybody that's watching. We're going into a barbell syndrome in business and society. With extreme AI and extreme digitalization, the rise of analog is exploding. You know, live sporting events, music festivals, AAU tournaments and run clubs. And so sports is one of the few things that is a safer bet. And, you know, ratings are also funny. Let's let's call a spade a spade. Like Nielsen ratings is not how Fortune 500s are buying their media anymore. So how are they buying their media? They're buying their media more and more. Thank God.

6:53Finally, I've been on this show and on the Internet for 15 years pushing social media's value. They're looking at views achieved organically. They're looking at cultural relevance. They're looking at association. This network's doing a good job with live event integration. I think they're looking at it a little more holistically than, oh, it got a 4.7 last night. Let's buy commercials on Seinfeld or MASH. When you look, though, at the numbers on social today and you see next to a video or a reel or whatever, some number, do you say to yourself, someone really watched that? Or do you say that those like right now, by the way, in the news business, there's a lot of influencers, news folks who've gone to YouTube and they'll tell you, oh, my goodness, look at our numbers.

7:31We have millions of people watching. But for whatever reason, they don't seem to have the same cultural relevance, frankly, than people sometimes a segment on linear television will have that looks like it has meaningfully lower ratings. I mean, the way TV measures viewers is definitely more flawed than the way social. So that's my question. Yeah. To your point, do I think a million views when a view is counted as three seconds? Right. Is a million views? No, I do not. But what I do know is when you take a piece of content on social that gets a million views and you put media behind it against something that's measurable.

8:05Now you're talking about paid media. That's right. OK, that I can tell you something that gets a million views on social converts better in CAC and LTV and ROAS than something that gets 100000, which speaks to the most important thing happening in media right now, which is how do views happen? Only if a piece of content is relevant can it get a million views versus 100 views. And relevance leads to consideration and consideration to purchase. So when you understand how to use organic social media first to then put working media against it, against a business result, now you understand. OK, what NBA team is doing the best job on social right now?

8:40I have no idea. You have no idea? You thought the Knicks were doing a great job or not? First of all, there's so much content made by so many people. I'm not even sure if it's the Knicks or Knicks Moose or, you know, Fly Fish Club or what have you. Like, you don't know, you know, where it's coming from to some degree. Also, I'm a psycho hardcore fan. Like many people watching right now, our entire equilibrium is off. I'm not my normal version right now. I am completely off the rocker excited. And I'm not analyzing the data as well as I normally do. I need two weeks to get through this. Gary, you're old school.

9:08You like a team. I would say kids today like players. and they follow players and they follow them to different teams. Yes, I dislike those kids. That's my son. Yeah, that's my, I do not like your son. What do you want from me? I, I, you know what, but you know what? But they were the ones who have the fire Nico hats. Yeah, listen, I love, listen, let me say who those kids are better than. The kids I grew up with in the 90s. Greg DiTomaso, my friend is watching right now. He grew up in Jersey. Why was he a Bulls fan? Because Michael Jordan was the best player in the history of basketball. Greg was insecure and needed himself.

9:41I love you. Greg, you needed your self-esteem for something that wasn't you, and so you were a Bulls fan when you should be a Knicks fan, and now you're not enjoying this moment. I think the final... I want to thank Greg. Greg, I feel you. I feel you. Do ABC get everything? It's ESPN and ABC? You might be right. Not Peacock. Oh, I'm sorry. ABC. Andrew was talking about the last series. Yes, I was having the last series. You had some lean years, my friend. Well, this is the point. You know, one of the things that everyone's crying about, ticket prices, right? I'm like, this is 30 years pent up market demand.

10:13Nobody was crying when those tickets were being given away two for one when we were winning 17 games. So, you know, the reality is, is that, yes, this is a pent up energy of demand. If I visually don't like seeing some of particular fans like right on the sidelines, should I not hold that against that? I shouldn't hold that against that. No, you can't. Listen, I go the reverse, actually, by the way. Obviously, as a New York fan, I hate all the Boston teams. I actually have a lot of Boston friends. You know what i mean so yeah i think you're doing it reverse okay you're mad at nick fans some of them i there's a couple of them sits in the front what's that he doesn't like some of the and i'm not talking about spike i'm talking about some of the other because he thinks that what is you're a hater yeah i'm a hater deep down what is it yes i'm not to be try not to be now the real question is where does that come from is that a lot of insecurity i was talking about when i shrink yesterday was an insecurity it's always insecure otherwise known as quad Yeah, otherwise known as Claude.

11:05Life is binary. Self-esteem, insecurity. Self-esteem, insecurity. That's the morning message. Everybody, if you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention, and thanks for being part of this show. You can't reason with the sun. Trust us. We've tried. This summer, it's time to put that angry ball of fire on mute. Columbia's OmniShade technology is engineered to protect you from the sun's harsh rays that can burn and damage your skin. The sun is relentless, but so is our gear. Level up your summer at Columbia.com to spend more time outside and less time slathering on aloe lotion.

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