This Is the Easiest Side Hustle You’re Not Doing Yet | GVAE w/ David Rawlinson: CEO of QVC Group

0:00This is going to be a big revolution in how you think about digital marketing. When you look at conversion rates in China for live streams, you see 10, 15, 20, sometimes 30 % conversion as opposed to e-commerce in the United States where you usually see 2 % to 5 % conversion. Why? Because the social media companies know so much more about you. They can drop you in the live stream where your conversion rate's likely to be really high. Plus, people like to buy from humans. And people like to buy from humans. People like to buy from humans. And now what QVC didn't have it that now you have that you're doing these partnerships.

0:37Wait, I can ask the person a question. They might answer it or somebody else might ask us a question. Versus a banner ad versus an image that sends me to a landing page. I mean, it is a different game. So I'm David Rollinson. I'm CEO of the QVC Group. I've been in the position about three years. We were the original televised, the original combination of entertainment and shopping. We came up through linear television and cable and really invented impulse buying. And we think, like I think you think, that we are on the edge of one of the biggest transformations of retail in a couple of decades.

1:19Maybe the biggest since the internet. By the way, I genuinely believe, I'm sorry to interrupt. No, you're good. But I launched an e-commerce wine website, wine retail site in 1997. And the second I started to understand what Amazon was doing in 95, I was like, this is it. I actually convinced my father not to open a second liquor store. That's how much I believed that web and e-commerce would work. And nothing, nothing has happened since that is going to transform the retail landscape more than what we're about to talk about. Yeah, 100%. And that's 30 years now. I think that's right. And I think it's long overdue.

1:59It's time. It's a great idea. People have been talking about this for a long time now. They've been waiting for it. I think you can finally see it finally actually starting to break at scale. And so I think the next couple of years are going to be really exciting. So we've just pivoted the company. I announced a new strategy last year that we're renaming the company QVC Group. We're renaming the tagline, the live social shopping company. We signed a strategic partnership with TikTok Shop earlier this year with the first 24-7 always on live shopping program on TikTok Shop now. We're working across all the social media companies, but we're really going hard at TikTok Shop.

2:39Yeah, because in at least in the Western world. Totally. Outside of whatnot, TikTok Shop, those are really the two quote unquote actual leaders. Can I ask you, are you surprised, curious, anticipating? I've been waiting for YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter X. Do you think the other competitors in the social media landscape of TikTok are slow, gathering their thoughts? Do you see any world in three years where those players are not involved in this? I know I threw nine questions at you. No, no, no. It's good. But they all have the same heart. The same heart's at the question. The advantage of TikTok is that they are connected to China and they see it in China.

3:29They live it. They live it in China. So keep in mind, China. China, social shopping. Go ahead. I actually want you to say this because it's powerful. Yeah, social shopping in China is half a trillion dollars. Half a trillion dollars. Just social shopping in China is larger than a lot of the GDP of a lot of economies around the world. Correct. And it's something like, depending on who you listen to, 40 to 50 percent of all e-commerce in China. In the U.S., social shopping is 6 percent of all e-commerce. And so we're way behind. And by the way, David, people just were stunned that it's that high.

4:04Like when you just said that, all the CEOs, all the CMOs, all the entrepreneurs, all the creators, all the influencers. And again, you and I, like all of us, you know, whether it's 6 % or 4%, these reports can be a little, right? But people do not even realize how big it is in the U.S. right now. This second. That's exactly right. And it's growing very fast. By the nanosecond. It's growing very fast. So I think the best estimate suggests it's about 70 billion a day. It'll be 140 billion in less than five years. It was 70 billion in 23. It should be 140 billion in something like 28. Mike's doing his first libel show.

4:40He opened up his mouth during one of my shows this week. And now I'm forcing him. He's literally, he's doing a garage sale. How'd you do? Oh, he's doing it tomorrow. Tomorrow. Tomorrow. Or he's fired. It's big. No, I'm not kidding, David. I need to know your numbers. I need to know your numbers. What are we selling? Sports cards. Is that what you're doing? You have enough laying around? But you have to do me a favor. Please throw some random stuff because actually, please, like a hat, like a coat, like a golf club. I actually believe that this is so big that is going to, and this is tough for me because I grew up garage selling and food marketing, but I believe in four to five years, like the garage sale is going to happen on live social shopping.

5:20You're literally going to be in your living room. You're like, how about this curtain? Like people are going to be with a phone and be like, what do you want from my house? And I'd be like, that lamp. I'm like, all right, the lamp is up for sale, 13, 25. Like, this is profound. This is going to create economics that don't exist yet. Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that. And so we think this is the next big thing in shopping. We think it's about to transform shopping. To go back to your point, so TikTok is tied into the Chinese ecosystem so they understand where all of this is going. And so I think it's helped them get conviction faster.

5:53But don't you think if you and I are smart enough, Because we know what's going on in China. Wouldn't you like to think that Mark Zuckerberg and Linda and Elon over like they know what's happening? Yeah. Are you I guess it's a very simple question. Are you surprised that Meta has not put out harder push in Q1, Q2 of this year, given how last year went? Or or do you not even think about things like that? No, I think I'm shocked. We do that. We do a lot of business with Meta. We have a great we have a great partnership with them. Me too. And we're working with them on social shopping as well. I think TikTok has deeper conviction earlier because they lived it earlier.

6:30I agree. I think eventually everybody will get there because it's going to be the biggest opportunity on the board for every social media company. They're going to get suffocated. Over the next couple of decades. And so everybody's going to be there. Everybody's going to figure out how to play. I think there are a lot of opportunities in front of big opportunities in front of all of the social media companies right now. What's AI going to mean? What's the advertising market? You're being smart. By the way, the reason I think some people are slow to this right now is the AI combo is so important.

7:00I agree with that. And it sucked up the oxygen for some of them. I totally agree with that. But like, by the way, back to shopping, this gets into commerce land. Amazon, Walmart, eBay, all have smoke. No fire yet, but all have smoke around this live social shopping thing. That's absolutely right. That's absolutely right. I think what's different and I think what's really good about what you're doing and I think is it's not just so everybody has a piece of it. What QVC figured out a long time ago that nobody's really quite tried to figure out yet in social. And I think it's one of the reasons that social shopping is taking taking longer to take off in the United States is you actually have to build a full value proposition.

7:41Right. So you have to you have to generate the content. Yes. But you also have to build a merchandising function so you have all the products. QVC sells 400 ,000 products a year. So we have all the products that you need. But then you've got to get the products in people's hands. So we ship 200 million boxes a year and you have to get it in their hands. And then once it's in their hands, sometimes they're problems. They want to return it. Who do they return it to? They want to call somebody to find out where the product is. Who do they call? Do you have call centers for them to talk to? right so it goes people think about the front end or the back end they have a product they want to sell or they have social media and they think they have the eyeballs you need the eyeballs you need the personalities who'll bring those eyeballs in and then they have to be matched to the right product you need the i mean where you have always been i mean i've been fascinated about this my whole life literally i mean obviously i've been in business feels like my whole life you need to have the analytics and the data you need the analytics and the data what you have When I was like 20, so I guess it was 30 years ago, when I found out that at QVC, when you would go on, my whole life I thought I would be on QVC.

8:51You would. I will crush. Never say never. That opportunity is still available. What do you think you're doing here, David? What do you think you're doing here? But really, this is no, I think you're going to like this, David. My whole life on like one day, like I just think about these things in my life. I just, I'm built for it. You are built for QVC. And I'll tell you what, this is why I knew this 30 years ago. Maybe this is a recruiting call. We thought it was a podcast. I've been talking to some of your execs. 30 years ago, I was like, wait, they have data that shows that you're good? Like three seconds in, they're like, huh?

9:21100%. This person's not gonna be good. I mean, what today, the best internet companies in the world, like TikTok itself does not, who's very advanced at this, does not even have the stack that you guys have of people coming on and you're like, yep. And you're like, oh, Johnny? We're gonna have him on every eight weeks because he's got it. it's a big deal and to your point you know it's very funny so v friends my so i i believe in horizontal and vertical for intellectual property when it comes to consumable goods meaning i will license out my so i'm trying to build a pokemon marvel world yeah obviously what you're looking at is tops chrome that's a licensing deal with fanatics and michael rubin and tops because i can't do trading cards like they can i can't get that distribution but comic books rubin's a great great but comic books here we go comic books i'm actually selling direct to consumer on live social shopping yeah and the reason you just talked about the most important part because i built an e-commerce business in 1996 and still run one the number one thing i invested in first was customer service while in while in parallel building up supply chain right and then finally I gave enough shits about who's going to be on and sell it.

10:38What the like. And so to your point, that middle. Yeah. Because everyone's like content product selling. That middle is the whole game. Yeah, that's exactly. It's going to be a massive differentiator. That's exactly right. And so but I think we're finally I think like with our partnership with TikTok, we're finally other people coming into the ecosystem. We're finally building the ecosystem. And I think once the ecosystem gets built, it's going to be the best way of shopping. Everybody's already on social. Correct. Everybody's already doing some purchasing on social. If you look at who's winning in retail now, you basically have a couple of big winners.

11:12You have sort of algorithmic, big e-commerce engines that feel very impersonal, that are selling your eyeballs. It's an efficient way to shop, but it's not a joyful way to shop. You have really big box retailers. You're walking on concrete floors. You have self-checkout. It's a very efficient way to shop. is not a joyful way to shop. Neither one of them has connection or trust. Neither one of them are terribly human. And neither one of them are great for impulse and discovery. Social's going to solve that. That's right. They're good for convenience and price. That's exactly right. Which are absolute elements of shopping.

11:49That's exactly right. But boy, when you start getting into commerce-tainment, when you understand, I believe that most of, this has been the most interesting, and you at QVC probably really knew this. I knew many things about QVC. this was not something on my radar until living the last three years of social shopping and the last year where it's really become it. It is stunning to me how many people buy something as a subconscious tip to the host. There is no doubt about it. That is, but by the way, for you and I, that's real. When I tell you 99 % of the smart people that are listening to this podcast about this do not know this yet.

12:29I am watching on my stuff and I'm not even talking about when I'm the host even my teammates but obviously when I'm the host given you know it's funny how life works you give and you get but I can definitely feel it when I'm on that people are just buying just to support me because I've given them so much but I'm watching kids that I hire for the first time do a show and because they're funny or clever or they're working hard I can feel it through the screen that there's someone who's like I'm gonna buy this because this person made me laugh no different than paying 400 bucks to go see a fancy comedy standup show here in Madison Square Garden.

13:03When you are entertained, you are accustomed to pay for that. This commerce tainment thing that, back to what you were talking about, a Walmart or a Target or a Costco or an Amazon is not providing that. They are dominant on convenience and price and that will continue to keep them very much in business. They will try to get into what we're talking about here. Everybody will, but man, it is real. that commerce tainment thing. And I will say, one of the things we know about American society right now is it's getting a lot lonelier. People have fewer friendships, fewer marriages, fewer best friends.

13:42And so a lot of where people go for human connection is through these digital platforms, including especially the social platforms. That's why they're called social platforms. And when people are engaging in those social platforms, they're bringing a lot of themselves to it. And so if you're creating a real connection on that social platform, people want to contribute. They want to interact. They want to have a connection. They feel like you're there with them in a real way. They know you're not, but they feel it in a real way. And if the way you give them to participate is through retail, that's fine.

14:17Sometimes it's because of the product, but a lot of times it's because it's their way to participate in this social moment that they're experiencing. By the way, it's disproportionately the most exciting thing I see from afar that you're about to activate. You've had an enormous community that has not been able to be connected with each other given the medium of television. That's right. You're about to have them all. When I tell you that half the people that show up when I go live are there to be with each other, and I think it's even higher, that just hurts my feelings that it's that high. They are fully engaged.

14:49Now we also have, you know, And again, I'm saying this out loud to tell you how I'm doing it so all of you create your version of it. We have a real good thing going because our literal thing is called VFriends. And our tagline before live social shopping four years ago is strangers become acquaintances, acquaintances become friends, and friends become family. And so that's been our ethos. So that's why we, you know, when I launched VFriends, it was an NFT, but it had utility. It was actually a ticket to a once a year over three year period super conference that was held in the Colts Stadium, the Vikings Stadium, and then in LA Live.

15:29Like a real ticket. Because it was friends. I was building the characters as friends and competitors. There's a lot of deep modern parenting stuff I'm trying to accomplish. And I wanted the people that collected them to be friends. This live social shopping thing has taken it to the stratosphere. So you're absolutely right. Yeah. That's awesome. Let me take this opportunity. This show is consumed by an extraordinary amount of Gen Z, even Gen Alpha, and obviously young millennials. How does QVC start to win the hearts and minds of that generation? I'm sure that's got to be a real topic on your mind.

16:09Yeah. So we've always been centered on sort of a woman as she goes into her 30s, 40s, 50s, comes into more discretionary income, has more discretionary time, tends to want to, after she's been very focused often on family and friends and others, now gets a little more focused on herself, is willing to treat herself, is willing to invest in herself, and is also investing in other, buying for families, friends, that sort of thing. So we love that customer. Absolutely love that customer. Everybody else can chase younger. We love that customer. We're going to stay with that customer. We think that disproportionately these women who have raised the family are in deeply involved in their community are for no, no fee holding up the nonprofits that serve the people in need in those communities.

17:00We think that woman is a hero that the world underserves, and we're really happy to serve her. So we will not walk away. We will not walk away from her. That said. But it's an end game, right? It's an end game. That said. And so what we're finding is that a lot of things we sell on social media, everybody wants. It works for everybody, right? Electronics and iPad works for everybody. A KitchenAid mixer works for everybody. And we're working with so many influencers. So we are actively today, either in conversations or actively working with 85 ,000 influencers across social media. And so you get to take advantage of all of their fans, all of their followers.

17:47And so you're dipping into their audience. And so what we're finding is we are naturally expanding our demographic as we are working with lots of influencers and creators who are bringing their own audiences. And so we will expand naturally as part of this strategy. what's something let me give you the floor a little bit what's something we have not talked about that you think would bring value i have a funny feeling this podcast can be consumed by a lot of people that are looking at this space given the nature of who you and i are and the moment we're in right now what are we not talked about that you find interesting what do you want people to know either in the macro because you are enjoy the thinking process of all this or in the micro something that's going on in qvc group what are we not touched on that is a good addition to this conversation as an aha or a watch out or a fun tidbit yeah so the thing we've not touched on in this conversation that i find interesting is your relationship with bojangles because that's my man i liked you already but fuck you that was such a good curveball i'm proud of you that's the shit i normally do my relation i'm on the board i know and look this goes back to you of course South Carolina.

19:03If you're from the Carolinas, if you're listening right now and you are not from the Carolinas, you cannot comprehend what Bojangles means. And you know, it's funny. It's a story similar to and. I joined that board for many reasons. One, I keep doing things to set up my interests, my learnings, my contributions, and all from a selfless kind of standpoint. And then from a selfish standpoint, I want to be the most Swiss Army knife operator of all time. I'm really thinking those terms. But I also realize I have strengths and weaknesses. I like to go to places where inherently I have strengths. It is very clear to me.

19:47I mean, this is funny. This is the second time I bring it up. Truly, truly, I wish we had a common friend that knew both of us our whole lives. Truly, when I was 18, 19, 20, I would walk around life and be like, I'm going to be on QVC one day. In the same way, probably about, what am I, 49? Probably about 20 years ago, I'm like, oh shit, I have the personality and operational type that would be really great at launching a substantial SaaS business or a QSR, or just a macro franchisee, franchisor business. Yeah. So I've spent a lot of time investing in SaaS businesses and then I joined a board of a QSR that was on, and this is very specific.

20:32I had other opportunities, but Bojangles was at a point where it was ready to double down and win bigger in the South, but was ready for the first time ever to expand out West and up North. And so it's been a great journey. And I wish, you know, listen, everybody's got their thoughts on eating and foods and I'm kind of like nothing is black and white. It's all a little gray. I think some indulgence would do a lot of people some good. Occasional indulgence I think is right. Because I'm on the board, I've had to really go deep on every version of every kind of fast food competitor, things of that nature.

21:09Bojo does good food. We do a lot of things not as well as I'd like and we're building and building and building. But it kind of goes back to the essence of QVC and any other great iconic company. When you do a couple of things real well, Yeah. It always gives you a fighter's chance to adjust to the things that maybe you missed or are changing on you. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. So a more serious answer. I would say we just think we're at a moment. Right. If you look at linear television, this year will probably be the first year that streaming viewership will surpass linear television viewership.

21:48Last year was the first year that digital advertising surpassed linear television advertising. And so you're seeing this transition from linear television viewership to streaming real time, this complete transformation. Same thing is going to happen in retail. We sit between sort of retail and entertainment and shopping. And so we're seeing this on the streaming side. By the way, we built a very fast growth streaming business. Our monthly active users are up 100 percent year over year. Where can people see that? You can see it at QVC +, HSN +, Apple TV, whatever your platform is. Download the app.

22:26Download the television app. So QVC and HSN+. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And so we're about to see the same amount of disruption in retail. It's coming. It's been building. I think we're finally at the moment. Like you said, I think TikTok Shop is the first real social media platform to sort of show people the way. Last thing I'll say, because I know you have a lot of people who talk, who think about marketing and digital marketing and things like that. This is going to be a big revolution in how you think about digital marketing. When you look at conversion rates in China for live streams, you see 10, 15, 20, sometimes 30 % conversion as opposed to e-commerce in the United States where you usually see 2 to 5 % conversion.

23:13Why? because the social media companies know so much more about you they can drop you in the live stream where your conversion rate's likely to be really high plus plus plus i'm sorry but i like to jam i'm more like a like if i was a musician i'd like to jump in and start playing my saxophone plus people like to buy from humans and people like to buy from humans people like to buy from humans this is something you know better than anyone like literally i'd rather buy from someone talk. And now what QVC didn't have it, that live social happens, that now you have that you're doing these partnerships.

23:47Wait, I can ask the person a question. They might answer it or somebody else might ask us. It is versus a banner ad versus an image that sends me to a landing page. I mean, it is a different game. So it's going to change retail digital marketing. It's going to change shopping. It's coming. I think it's a big opportunity. We believe we're pivoting the company there. We believe it's a massive opportunity. You've been all over it. I think you've probably been as big a public voice trying to get out in front of this and get people to see the opportunity as anybody. And by the way, I think we're going to win.

24:23I want a lot of people to win. I think we need to build the whole ecosystem. You're smart enough to know that's what's going to happen. And what I get excited about, I play a very funny role. I live with the creator, small entrepreneur, all the way to Fortune 50. I want it both for people like yourself, like the biggest incumbents, but I want it for people like Mike. Yeah, that's right. I want it for you, Mike. But let me say this. You'll find this interesting. Here's a real tidbit. I think the millions, excuse me, the hundreds of millions of people that are trying to become influencers. I mean, every single kid in the world that's 16 has one agenda professionally.

24:59I would like to be an influencer. Yeah. Because I just want to live my life and get as much money as possible. I believe that millions of people right now listening, hopefully over a decade that many will listen, but millions of people that potentially could hear this are aiming to be an influencer, but do not have the talent. This is unfortunately something that has to be said. But if they pivoted to be a social commerce person, that their destiny trying to be an influencer and getting brand deals and all that only caps at 8 ,000 a year. Not the millions they dream of. If they took their same talents and decided to go all in on live shopping, I think they make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

25:47That long tail of win. You're gonna be battling it out with the Ebays and the Amazons. You've got your 30 to 50 that you're gonna be playing with. The long tail of it, the fact that there's you know that's actually and it's a much more direct monetization of course