What WWE and Building a Brand have in Common: StoryTelling

26:35I think empathy more. Gratitude keeps me happy, but if you ask superpower, when you walk into any room and you can feel what other people are feeling, and I mean all of them, and then it almost becomes like you know what they're actually thinking. Do you know the reason I believe in psychics and other random shit is because I know I have something. When you have extreme emotional intelligence, I don't think I'm the greatest person gifted with the most weird traits, but I can tell you right now, In fact, I hate doing podcasts because I always interrupt people and it's just because I really know what someone's gonna say.

27:08Like it's this weird thing and so I would say empathy because I do think it's a very special gift and empathy is different than compassion and sympathy. Some people are incredibly compassionate. You know, they feel compassion for someone else. They feel for you. They're like, oh, I'm so sad that happened to you but they can't feel you. When you can feel, you become a good showman, you become a good salesman. of course I'm good at sales. I know what to say to sell you. And I mean if you just walked up right now and looked at my baseball cards at 15 years old, within a second or two, I know what to say to you.

27:43Where's that come from? Fuck me. You know? I have no idea. Wow. But it is really special. It's also, you know, it's funny. In my older age, it made me feel even better about myself because I was like, at some point, probably my 30s or maybe 40s, but I think 30s, I was like, wait a minute. I'm such a good person. I have this gift that could fucking be really bad. I could like really do bad shit. I could like trick all of you into doing bad. Like I could really build a fucked up cult and make everyone drink bad Kool-Aid. And so, you know, I'm very grateful that I have it and I'm grateful that I was gifted good intent and I feel like I know what to do with it and that's my day to day.

28:25I feel like me and you together here is throwing a lot of positivity. out there, but I've heard you talk about it as practical positivity, and I love that. It's not just positivity for the sake of positivity, right? Oh my God, I get so mad when people get triggered by my positivity. Toxic positivity, I've heard it thrown around. I'm like, fine, yes, give it to me. I'm the toxic, you know the toxic Avenger, that real fucking weird guy with the green face and his eyes up here? I'm like, I'll look like that if that's who I am. I'm all about toxic positivity. I mean it is such a ludicrous anyone who weaponizes that word is called toxically cynical like why can you be toxic positivity but when you're a cynical dark person you're keeping it real yeah I don't buy it I'm fine with it throw it at me like I don't even know the world is dramatically better when you're optimistic and positive.

29:27But you're practical about it. And I think that that's what makes it work. Yes, I don't think like, hey everyone, just sit on your fucking ass and cross your fingers and just hope for millions of dollars and it will drop it. Of course you have to be practical because nothing happens without action. But yeah, I choose to be practically optimistic about everything. I believe in it. But it's not a focus group of one. I, for a living, watch the world. And I can tell you it's not super complicated. that like the people that go through that lens, I always say this, in life you find what you're looking for.

30:00If I decided to look for negativity, I can sit here right now and rattle off unlimited things. You know why? Because there's unlimited news and social media content about everything that get negative in the world. My question is, are you looking for positivity? You know, like if you're choosing to watch podcasts around extreme politics to the left and right, I have good news for you. You're going to be scared and unhappy. If you watch something that talks about The Missing Link and Bad News Brown, you know, and the Rock and Roll Express, like, you'll smile and think back to your nostalgia and you'll be in a good mood.

30:37This is that Tony Robbins thing he talks about where it's like, look around the room, tell me all the green things that you see, right? Look at all the green things. Close your eyes, now tell me all the blue things you saw. Yeah, of course. Life is what you're looking for. Yeah. And, like, if you're looking for negativity that was in your DNA, that was in your parenting, that was in your circumstances, that was in the luck of the draw, but you're able to get out of it. And I think once you become accountable and realize you're capable, like I always ask this, I'm like, at what age are you now a grown-up?

31:07Like at what age is it no longer everyone else's fault? Is it 18, is it 22, is it 25, is it 30, is it 35, is it 40? Like at what age? Because it's gotta be some age. I think. What's funny because you legally become an adult at 18 but you're like, ah, figured anything out? Yeah, I mean like at 18 you could literally go to a foreign country and fight a war but like we have unlimited 35 year olds running around spending 100 % of their time crying about mommy and daddy. You know, and I get it. Like some people have some incredibly challenging circumstances. The problem is like everyone else has problems too and so like, you know, what are you trying to do?

31:52Like, too many people want to just lay in their mud. They want to re-up their mud. They want to re-up their mud, you know, and I get it because people are hurt and they didn't have the emotional strength. It's just like, you know, I was not raised nor did I have the DNA to go to the gym and I really, really worked at it mentally for eight years before it finally tipped and it became a habit. And that's a lightweight, not important thing. But for many people, I always say this, if anyone in the world figured out your circumstance, then you can too. If anyone with a drug infested father and a mom that ran away on the second day got to a place where they worked through it and got to a productive, solid place, well then you can too in that extremely challenging circumstance.

32:44And I don't know why someone wouldn't choose hope. I don't understand why, let me just stay in this dark place in perpetuity. And I know why, because it's hard. It's fucking hard. But like, everything good is hard. Everything good is hard. You went all in on social media and YouTube way before anybody saw it really happening. What made you make that decision? Back to extreme empathy, I have a very good read on what people are going to do before they know it. That's what I'm good at. Yeah, you're really good at reading trends. it's because I put in the work to pay attention and it comes natural to me you know some people can sing some people can throw a baseball some people can cook like I can I can understand consumer trends and then I put in work like like it's not like again I just sit there like I do the reading I do the research I pay attention and um it was very obvious to me that YouTube was gonna hit I just kind of knew like it wasn't complicated even though there was no video platform on the internet, people watched unlimited television.

33:48I was like, what's the fucking difference? It's just video. And so I'm very good at understanding things that are historically true. That Substack, Hannah's here in the background, she was early on it. Of course, people always ask me, Gary, why do you write books? You're such a digital guy. I'm like, because people read them. Is it interesting that you write books but don't read books? Yeah, I mean, some of the best head coaches of all time didn't play the sport. I don't think I need to read books to be able to write books that are commercially successful. But I'm saying the inverse of that, it's amazing that you've written so many books that have inspired so many people and you're like, I'm just not really a reader.

34:27Well, because I don't have reading comprehension. Like when you completely waste your time reading anything, I mean, Hanako from the VFriends team just texted me something, it was three sentences. I was walking with my sister just now and I was like, I don't understand. I called her. And I was laughing because I thought about it while I was calling. I'm like, 99.9 % of people would understand this in one second. And in fact, reading saves people a lot of time. I have to call a lot of five-minute meetings because I don't understand what you wrote in this paragraph. It's just not how my brain works, and I'm comfortable with that.

34:59I started my YouTube channel, my first YouTube channel in 2007 because I was working on TV. I was interviewing some of the biggest stars on the planet, and I'm like, man, unless you're watching TV in this city on this day at this exact time, you're never going to see my interview with whoever it is. So I went behind my boss's back. I created a YouTube channel under some other name. And I started posting my interviews on there. Because I'm like, if you're a fan of this celebrity, this actor, this band, you're going to want to find out about all these things they said in this interview. Sure. And that was early, early in the days of YouTube.

35:31YouTube was obvious to me. It took off so quickly. I remember when it sold for$1.7 billion. And people were like, that's way too much money. That's crazy. For everybody who's listening, now everyone's a billionaire. That was like me saying that something just sold for$78 trillion. It was such a big number. And really, that sale changed my career. Because I read all about it. In one of the articles, it said angel investor Ron Conway was set to make XYZ amount of money. I had never heard that term. I googled what an angel investor was and decided that day in the liquor store that I was going to become an angel investor.

36:08and within a year I invested in Facebook, Twitter, and Tumblr. Wow. So the YouTube sale to, YouTube was massive in my career. Not only did it change the course of my life with Wine Library TV, but its sale to Google and the articles written about it were the inspiration to why I wanted to become an investor. And I think the stat now is like, whatever it's sold for, they now make in like four days or something. Oh yeah, it's like, it's one of the great acquisitions of all time. What's been your best investment ever? Facebook. like how early were you in on Facebook early I mean probably two years before it's I mean not in the angel round but I invested in 07 it was years before it went public and I never sold a share still to this day still to this day wow I promised myself when I invested in it that I would hold on to it until Mark was no longer there because I just knew he would the thing I knew about Mark early on was a skill that I have, which is he would adapt to the consumer behavior.

37:10And he's absolutely proven that to be true. And that was a very good hypothesis of mine. A lot of my friends who were early at Facebook, it opened at$42 a share. When you work at a company, everybody pre-IPO, you can't sell your stock for the first six months usually. The six month mark of Facebook, the stock went down from$42 to$19. Many of my friends sold at$19 because they were all in their 20s and 30s and they had a lot more than I had. They were employees, even though I invested. But I mean, that's$600 a share now. It's 30X. And when you sold$50 million worth of stock and it changed your life as a 30-year-old, that was amazing.

37:52Except now it's 15 years later and you're like, wait, that's$1.5 billion. It starts to get really scary when you think about it. You said you were a fan of four New York teams growing up. Jets, Rangers, Yankees, and Knicks. Yes. And I heard you say that you stopped being a Rangers fan after they won the Cup in 1994. That's correct. And then you stopped being a Yankees fan in 96 after they won the World Series. That is also true. I know you were a hardcore Jets fan. Yes. If the Jets somehow get good, will you stop being a Jets fan if they win the Super Bowl? Well, before we go to the Jets, the second we're filming this is the Monday after the Knicks have found out they're playing Cleveland.

38:30So the Knicks are about to play Cleveland. in the Eastern Conference Finals. There's a really nice chance that the Knicks will win this series. Did you see Dan Housen curse them, then uncurse them? This is a big reason why the Knicks are winning. Yes, I did see that. It's Dan Housen. You know, and I do think the Spurs are the only team that can beat them. I currently sit and think the Thunder would be too tough of a matchup for the Knicks in the Finals. But I think the Spurs match up well with them, and I think the Knicks match up well with the Spurs. Plus, game three of the NBA Finals, for some unknown reason, I am going to San Antonio for a public speech and it's the first time I'll ever be in San Antonio, which is interesting.

39:08Which now I've decided, and by the way, that's game three of the NBA Finals, which means the Spurs would be playing the Knicks in New York and I'd be missing the game. I've now decided that's a sign. And that the Spurs are gonna stun the Thunder and the Knicks are gonna make it. So the Jets are on a planet by themselves. Because they're a different thing for me. The answer is I don't know. and because football is on Sundays and only 17 games, probably soon to be 18, my intuition, if I'm answering honestly, is that I would continue to root for them and be in it with a very different energy. Look, I'm a Browns fan.

39:45Yes, hard. So, yes, just as hard as being a Jets fan. The Knicks is the interesting one and I would really like to find out here in the next six weeks. Do you still have aspirations to buy the Jets one day? Forever. I mean, it's been there forever. it's been and is that just the pie in the sky goal that seems unachievable so you'll just keep shooting at it yeah at some level I think later in my life you know at the time when I started thinking about it when I was a young kid it was silly I don't even know where it really came from I don't know how I thought it as I you know and then my 20s and 30s it it was owning a sports team wasn't what it is today like the numbers were still achievable-ish in the last 15 years, 10 years, it's really changed.

40:32It's become like the most sought after thing. Yeah, it's like a status quo. Yeah, which has made it challenging because they've gotten much more expensive. You know, it's kind of like, you know how like little kids have like a favorite doll or blanket and they'll like take it to college? I think at some level with my entrepreneurial journey, like this like little, I'm gonna buy the Jets is almost like that little baby blanket. It's been part of this whole journey with me. When I was selling baseball cards, I was like, one day I'm gonna open all 100 baseball card stores and buy the Jets. It's a very warm, personal, meaningful thing to me.

41:12And it's obviously changed in culture. When I used to say it, it didn't seem like a big deal. Yeah, it was a lot of money, but it was like, oh, that's interesting. Now it's different in culture, but it's not different to me. Does the owner of the Jets know that you want to buy the Jets? Yeah, sure. Have you guys talked? No, because I'm not in a position to buy it. And I think I wouldn't embarrass myself to have that conversation. You know, I'll have it when I really can do it. And the Johnson family has no interest in selling, it seems, which is good for me because I need way more time to amass the wealth to get there.

41:48And so that's where we're at. you posted a video recently on social media that I loved so much. And it's this woman coming up to you saying, I know one day I'm gonna be somebody. And you said, please, look at my face. You're somebody now. Why do you think that hits so hard? It's something I believe in so much. And I believe it hits so hard because the world is really confused right now. We have never been more materialistic. We have never been more status symbol. We've never been more, how many followers you have, how much money you have, what things you have to justify who you are. We've never been more detached from simplicity.

42:35You know?

42:39And I just, I'm really sad about that. And I want to be a beacon of changing the conversation. I'm aware that I'm successful and things of that nature, but it's not my identity. It's not how I get my validation. I like being a good entrepreneur but I don't think it's what makes me me and it was a very simple interaction. She actually snuck out. It was really funny where that was filmed. It's what's fun about vlogging. She snuck out. I was giving a talk. I was just about to go in the car. She snuck out and the bodyguards wanted to stop her and I was like, no, no, let her come and we had this moment and I knew it when it happened.

43:15I got in the car. I'm like, ooh, that might be good because I felt it, but it was very natural, and it's what I believe, and I think it hits so hard because it's the truth, and right now everyone's confused. Instead of people taking their validation from the amount of followers that they have or the amount of money they make or the house they live in or the car they drive, should that validation be coming from being a great father, being a great friend, being a great mother, being whatever it happens to be? Is that where people should be looking? All of those sounded great. being a nice neighbor, contributing to another human being.

43:52I mean, we can sit here for an hour and bring up a million things that we all think are good attributes of a human being. Yes, to any of the things you said and many others. You had another one that hit because I'm a fairly new father. Yeah, congrats. Thank you. My daughter's three. My son is about a year and a half. And this woman was talking to you about how do you shield your kids from the dangers of the internet. Yes. And you said the number one most important thing is you got to build their self-esteem. Yes. How do you do that? When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

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45:10Plus, guided learning paths with content designed to fit your unique interests. No sifting to find exactly what you need so you can spend your time learning to trade brilliantly. Learn more at Schwab.com slash trading. You know, I think everyone's different. You know, I have two children. They're different. I'm one of three. We're all different. You know, I think there's it's a very nuanced question, but I can tell you. Let's first go to the first part. Parents try to focus on the sink, not the well. You can't be there with your kids every time. You're not going to be at that party where people pull out cocaine for the first time.

45:50You're not going to be there where their drunk buddy is like, I'll drive, and you need them to step up and say no. You can't be there when everyone's jumping off a cliff on a trip and it's kind of dangerous and they decide yes or no. You can't be there. you know you know like this whole world we live in now like you know i can't get over the fact that there are like 27 year old men walking around earth that have their parents following them on the phone and you have moms like calling 27 year old men on wednesday night being like honey you should go back home why are you out like you can't parent forever and so the only thing you can do is instill the characteristics that will allow them to make good decisions So what I was telling that woman, it was in Romania, I'll remember that moment forever too.

46:36I was like, listen, you can block their phone, and you know this, you were a teenager once. When we're all teenagers, anything our parents tell us we can't makes you want it more. Right? And so, you know, I knew unlimited kids from my high school and then in college who were really the byproduct of strict parents and they literally went to college and within the first 30 days, fucking did drugs, alcohol, and hoarded up like no one's fucking business because it was all suppressed. And then you had parents, and my sister and I didn't grow up with this, or my brother, like my mom was very like no alcohol, this and that, but then we had friends and we would always marvel about it where like they would like let their kids drink senior year of high school as long as it was in your home.

47:22And I watched a lot of those kids have much better relationships with alcohol and things of that nature. And so you got to find a fine line but I think it is simplicity I think it is real you know I think one thing that parents should watch out for is shaming anything you know like I think that becomes something you want to pay attention to I also think what you're cheering for amongst your kid like if the number one thing you're clapping for and giving trophies to your kids for is getting straight A's I have bad news that's a fucking bad formula because you're telling your child to conform to a subjective machine every three months, which is why so many people go into companies and just work for their review.

48:12Like you've got to be more well-rounded than one dimensional. If you only cheer for your kid, the only thing you tell your kid, the only thing you tell your kid about positive reinforcement is how good they are at a sport and then they eventually, you know, like 99.999 % of people do not make it to the NBA. well what is that kid left with so I think it's important to think about what you cheer what you shame and I think the other thing is I think you gotta tell your kids the truth you know like there's an age where your child starts to know that you're full of shit and I think you have to be very thoughtful about that and that comes to mind but listen it's the hardest job on earth everybody everybody everybody no matter how, I talk about this all the time, how much I admire my mom, I can rattle off things she didn't do.

49:05Every kid is gonna play Monday morning quarterback with their parents. You just wanna get them into a place where they're strong enough to be accountable and say, okay, my mom and dad did this wrong. I'm gonna do better. And then you wanna find balance because I think right now we have a parenting generation that overcorrected for what their parents did and went too far the other route. And it's like, listen, it's really hard to find the middle. we've talked about a few of your videos that went viral. You've had many of them. Do you think that one piece of content has the ability to change someone's life slash career?

49:37Of course. That's what the whole world's about. That's everyone's life. There's seven of us in this room and there'll be millions that watch us over the next 50 years. Every one of us have been affected by someone else's words. You know what insane that is? That's why I keep yapping. I've heard you say that like one sentence from a podcast, boom, can change somebody's life. I'm literally looking at the five people behind the camera right now. Whether it was your grandfather, grandmother, father, mother, brother, sister, best friend, or someone you admire, every one of you right now, everyone who's watching can recall something right now that was said that had an impact on them.

50:17Why do, what did Gandhi or Martin Luther King or any of these, like, you know, like, what are these people, it was words, brother. Fucking words matter. because you change someone's perspective. By the way, whether pro or con, this is why words are dangerous too. There are a lot of people, right now, we're in a time in society where unfortunately a lot of people's lives are going to be much shittier because they decided to believe someone who's spewing hate. Their whole life will be shittier. Like if they grew up 40 years earlier and nobody was talking that jargon, they would have lived a different life.

50:50But right now they're sitting in their head mad at someone they've never met because someone put something in their mind that they believed. So I just choose to go the other side and try to make it positive because life is positive if you decide it's positive. What was the sentence that changed your life? You know, that's a good question. I would say, I want to really give this a real thought.

51:17You know, I'm going to give you a real answer and it's blurry because it was reinforced. But my mother early on in my life, and again, I probably am saying this because my sister's here with me, She rarely travels with me, but like, I very much remember as a child, my mom telling me like, I was responsible for my sister. Like that, you know, it was just very, very early. Like my mom was instilling a lot of things into me like, you're the example. You're in charge if something happens. How much did it lure you to her? Three and a half years. And it happened at a very young age. And listen, my mom was the byproduct of very, very challenging circumstances.

51:57And I've said this publicly now for a while. I've come to realize my childhood was shaped by my fear that my parents were gonna die. My mom lost her mom at five. My dad lost his dad at 15. And it was the soundtrack of my youth. I was scared of it. You know, there was one time, you know, I'm so glad smartphones exist. I really wish I grew up in that era because I know how everyone shits on it. Let me tell you right now, For all the shitting on smartphones, one of the most traumatic events of my life was when I was babysitting my brother and sister when I was probably 14, maybe 15, but 14, I think.

52:35And my mom went somewhere and there was a massive accident on the highway that made her super late. And I forced my sister to go on the porch with me and pray. I don't know why we had to do it outside. But think about that level of fear. That is not a normal child's thinking. Maybe if your mom's like an hour late and whatever, but like I really thought it was over. And like it was just such a current, in fact, I think my life is grounded on gratitude in my adulthood because I made it to 18 and they were both there and they're still here, thank God. But yes, I would say the conversations I had with my mother when I was six, seven, eight, nine of like, you're the oldest.

53:22You're the, you know, shaped me quite a bit. I'm gonna bring it back around to wrestling here. Thank God. You were at WrestleMania 35. Yes. I was at WrestleMania 35. Yes. It was like the longest WrestleMania ever. Which WrestleManias have you been to? The first WrestleMania I went to, and I need everybody right now because this is a wrestling crew to go back if you have this footage. I went to the, what's the WrestleMania that Mike Tyson in Boston, you know what number that is? That was 98. It's 14, I think. So that was the first WrestleMania I went to. Yeah, take a look. Yeah, let's just, we have all of them.

53:55It was in Boston. It was in 1998. WrestleMania 14. Thank you. So that's the first WrestleMania. During the dumpster tag team match. Iconic. Everybody, if you go to the dumpster tag team match, this is the era of like everyone has a sign. It's in Boston. The Jets just stole Curtis Martin from the Patriots and I get a Curtis Martin Jets jersey and I bring it to the arena and I had a sign that said Jets, like a Jets sign. And during the dubstep match, I walk down and I hang it up there and I'm literally in WrestleMania with my Jets sign in the aisle. Please someone clip that and post it on social.

54:31I'd like to have it. Troy will be all over this. So that was the first WrestleMania I've been to. Then I was one at the Meadowlands in 18 or 19, right? And then I was in Philly. That's 35, yep. WrestleMania 40 was amazing. Oh my gosh. Like that's gonna be the benchmark for people who are relatively new wrestling fans and they got to see WrestleMania 40 when they're two, three, four, five years into being a wrestling fan. They're gonna think that every WrestleMania needs to be that good. It should. I think I've been to three or four. I wish I've been to more, but like I tend to work and I'm busy.

55:08WrestleMania 4 is like my life. It's one of the best days of my life. when Macho Man wins that title it's like even right now the chemicals are going through my body like when Hogan and you know it was right around the time where I kind of was like okay this is like fake-ish maybe like you know you're still in that you know this is a long time ago I could feel he was going to win it which also reared its head the next year where I feared he was going to lose it to Hogan in Wrestlemania 5 I'm still mad at Hogan for that. May he rest in peace. Macho Man's the one person I regret not meeting in my life.

55:49Wow. Yeah, when he died, I felt like I was gonna meet anyone and everyone I ever wanted to. I always believed in myself. I knew my life was gonna be a certain way. That one really hurt. That one really hurt. He was such a big deal for me. Who's on your wrestling Mount Rushmore? Damn, I should have been more prepared for this. This is such a cliche question. I don't know how this like wasn't in my mind. Macho Man, mine or who I think the four most important wrestlers are of all time. It's yours. You're the one sitting across from you. My favorite, my Mount Rushmore, I'm gonna go with the Mount Rushmore because I don't even know if I, I don't really, I'm pretty funny.

56:26Like I love Macho Man and I gave Y2K some, you know, excuse me, I gave Jericho some love. But like after that, it's like I love the British Bulldogs. Like the British Bulldogs as a tag team was very big for me.

56:43my Mount Rushmore is Barry Horowitz, Steve Lombardi. You're going with all the jobbers. Iron Mike Sharp. Enhancement guys. Those guys deserve a lot of credit. They built up the guys. Absolutely. But I would say. Brooklyn Brawler was a fantastic guest on my show. Lombardi was the best. I'm sure. So good. He's awesome. I think the Mount Rushmore of wrestling is Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Andre the Giant,

57:13and I gotta give one to the Attitude Era. I will go with, believe it or not, I'm gonna go with The Undertaker, actually. I know Rock and Austin and Bret Hart and Michaels, but I think those, I don't think people understand. Andre the Giant carried wrestling through the 70s. And Bruno San Martino. Because he was the attraction. Yeah, and remember, it was regional and when he would go, I just think he's just all time. I'm devastated and I watch a lot of clips where people do their Mount Rushmore. Andre should be in everyone and Hogan changed everything. Yeah. He made it mainstream. Yeah, and then Flair, when you say Flair, you're also giving love to Michaels and Bret Hart and Ricky Steen, but he was a great wrestler and then obviously pop culture and like, you know, I mean, the guy literally used to cut promos and be like, we're gonna be in Atlanta.

58:12Like, he would literally cut wrestling promos to tell all the groupie girls where they were gonna be that night. They're like, we're gonna be in Atlanta tonight at 8.30 in the, like, literally. And when I was growing up, WCW, you know, NWA, like, that was grown-up shit, whereas WWF was for the kids. So, like, as I was getting older, 12, 13, I'm like, ooh, that's a little, you know? And then, so I don't know how Andre and Hogan. And again, I love Macho Man 10 ,000 times more than both of them combined but I don't know if we're actually gonna do the actual debate of Mount Rushmore how you can't understand that those two have to be there and then Flair.

58:54Look, Harley Race I think is like really lost in history. Like, what a massively important champion he was and then it becomes regional, right? Like if you grew up in Texas and you don't say one of the Von Erics, you're a bad person. and if you grew up, right? And if you're from the Midwest and Minnesota. If you don't immediately say, Breit Hart's the greatest. Of course. And he deserves it. And like, and Gagne's, you know, and that whole, you know, but, and then I start thinking about weird things like, you know, like, Gorilla Monsoon. Like, let me give you some, now I'm just getting nerdy. Like, our generation, Gorilla Monsoon was the announcer.

59:35Ross, all these guys now, but like, Gorilla Monsoon was him and Jesse Ventura and McMahon would get in there. By the way, when I got older and was like, fucking what a genius Vince McMahon is. Not only would he create the league, but then he was the announcer so he could tell you what the fuck you needed to think. He was narrow. I told my brother AJ when we started VaynerMedia, I was like, literally he asked me, he's like, any advice? I'll never forget. It was day one. Even though we hung out every day and worked together, it was kind of day one of our company. And he said, any advice in marketing?

1:00:04And I said, just tell America what to think and it will work, which has really been weird to see play out in politics, but it's what Vince did. He's like, this guy's really scary. I'm like, ooh, this guy's really scary, and that's what he wanted us to think. But there's, you know, superstar Billy Graham, Bruno, that whole crew, Ivan Koloff. You know, then you go into WCW, you go to the Sting, and there's just some really big people that deserve a lot of credit, and it's so fun to debate this, but Andre and Hogan, I don't know how you don't have them, and I would say Flair is right there and then I think it gets blurry.

1:00:39So many people younger than me are gonna go Austin and The Rock and the reason I put Undertaker in there is I think Undertaker's continuity. Undertaker's the bridge. Right, Tuesday in Texas, right? Tuesday in Texas with Hogan all the way through being like so important during the Attitude Era and then even post, right? You know, Undertaker's there and Tuesday in Texas with Hogan and he's there after Austin and Rock. And I think that longevity and at the level and then even like losing to Lesnar and wrestling, like he did everything right. He's there till the Boneyard match in 2020, WrestleMania 36.

1:01:18He's there through all of the important characters. I think that Undertaker, I actually think, I think about this a lot, politicians, businessmen and women, people in pop culture, entrepreneurs, I actually think I live my life this way. I think some people get even more flowers after they're gone and get more understood. I think Undertaker will continue over time, get more and more credit. Because when someone's watching this long after we're gone and they haven't seen anyone, because we're all recency bias. Like for me, it's my guys. Like I think Big John Stud matters. That's because nostalgia's a hell of a drug.

1:01:59Yeah, and you also saw it. I got to see Big John Studd move around the ring when he was still healthy as a massive dude. You know, that to me is like the way that your era saw Big Show and like how does that guy be so athletic? I mean, Big Show fucking did a drop kick off the top rope. I think that's crazy to me how athletic, but like you get to, you know, this is back to the basketball argument. The amount of kids that argue Magic and Bird and Michael Jordan and Will Chamberlain and Kareem but never watch them play and watch some highlights. Everybody looks great in their highlights. What about in their day-to-day mundane?

1:02:37And so, I don't know, I think Undertaker is gonna get a lot of love as time goes on. Who do you think is a completely underrated wrestler? Wrestler? Yeah. Macho Man Randy Savage. I'll tell you why, because as a wrestler, I will say right now that if you do not think that Ricky the Dragon Steamboat, Macho Man Randy Savage, WrestleMania III is not a top two, three, four match of all time. I have bad news for you. And this is just with love. You do not know what the fuck wrestling's about. I really believe this. It's hard to argue with that. That's such a good match. Way ahead of its time. Macho Man was, do you know how, I think he is more charismatic than Bret Hart.

1:03:21You know, I think about Shawn Michaels as Macho Man a lot. Like a modern Macho Man. Like as a wrestler. you know? He said that he was inspired, the stuff he wore to the ring was inspired by Macho Man. I didn't know that. It's funny, just being a fan but not as deep as some of the people watching or you, I feel Shawn Michaels a lot in Macho Man because it's a great wrestler and a great showman. Brett was cool and his promos were a certain way. Macho Man could like, Macho Man became famous, right? Like Slim Jim commercials, he would do the Arsenio Hall. Like he was famous and he was a technically strong wrestler.

1:04:04And he could work as a baby face. He could work great as a heel. But that's just me giving Macho Man flowers. Let me give you some good ones. I think, I do think Kurt Henning is underrated. Crazy to think he never won a title in a major company, a world title in a major company. He was very underrated. I think,

1:04:25you know, you know who I think was underrated? I think Big Boss Man was underrated. I think like there were some heels that came along that really mattered. I was a big fan of Bad News Brown. Abdullah the Butcher. I think Abdullah the Butcher deserves more credit for what he represented similar to Andre he was traveling. Rick Rude. I think Rick Rude's underrated. I think Rick Rude first of all his physique was so ahead of its time. and just the way he healed when he used to have like the tights with the faces and he was really really strong down when he was wrestling Ultimate Warrior when the Ultimate Warrior was Dingo Warrior prior to them both coming Dibiase I think Ted is a little bit underrated in a real way Davey Boy Smith I think doesn't have the flowers he deserves for, I mean, the British Bulldogs was such an important tag team.

1:05:32You know, so some of those guys stand out. I thought Orndorff deserves a little more credit. He was really instrumental in those early days. Again, physique, pile driver, executed it well. You know, that's a tough move. People get hurt, as you know, from that move, and I thought he did that well. You know, some people. Some good ones. What's your all-time favorite match? I already said it. No question. I mean, even though it devastated, I cried like a baby. I still hate George the Animal Steel. I still hate George the Animal Steel. And he had a green tongue, and I'm a huge Jets fan, so I liked him right away because he had a green tongue, and that associated.

1:06:09Returned buckle. What a great wrestler he was, by the way. So good. And his longevity, you know? That's my favorite match. I would also say that... Wait, which one? WrestleMania III. Steamboat. You know, that is the match.

1:06:27You know who I liked a lot? It's a little blurry for me because it was my brother's era. And AJ had a funny one. He's 11 years younger than me. You're 43? He's 39. And he was into it early because of me. So he was like, before the Attitude Era, he was in that middle thing. Sure, there were some rough years there. Duke the Dumpster Drozzy and Haku. Repo Man. Repo Man, who was Demolition, right? Who was also, yeah, yeah. And Tatanka. And they tried all these weird guys. Well, super character based, right? Super character based. Well, because Doink was so big. Doink the Clown. Then WCW started doing some stuff that was a little more reality based in the NWO and I think WWF went, oh.

1:07:13Well, NWO, as you know, was a story plot from Japan. Yes. and that was just a good, you know, Bishop, who I love, just did a great job of taking something that worked elsewhere and made it his own. That is the greatest storyline of our last 50 years. Oh, it's so good. So no one expected Hogan, even though it was like, whose side is he on? As he was walking out, it's like, what do you mean whose side is he on? Yeah, Hogan, you know, the documentary shed some light on this recently. Like, Hogan felt the heat. He knew it was time. Like, makes sense. It always happens. by the way it's how I root for things like I love a good underdog Golden State Warriors sucked when I was a kid so when they were coming up with Steph and Clay I was rooting for them by the time they won their second championship I was rooting fully against them you know it's just kind of like how when you don't care you'll always gravitate towards the underdog I feel like that's happened in your career people were rooting for you and then you became popular, famous yeah I'm sure I don't know if I can relate anymore I think that's right I think there's some truth to that.

1:08:18You know, I mean, I think it's just natural, right? Like, we always love a good Britney's back, bitch, right? Like, we'll build up Britney, then we'll tear her down, and then we just can't wait for Britney to come back. The general public will do that. In America, we will cheer for the rise, and then when it gets Taylor Swift, right? Like, everyone cheered, then it gets to the white humor, like, fuck that, tear down. And then after a little while, we're like, no, no, no, bring it back. I mean, it's just what we do in pop culture. Boy bands. We love the Backstreet Boys. Then we're like, they're corny.

1:08:49And now we're like, yay, they're bad. It's just what we do in society. So yeah, I think the more notoriety, the more awareness, fame you have, it comes along with the territory. People love their band when no one knows it. Then the band gets big and then they shit on it. Oh, well, I knew Green Day when they were playing 1 ,000 people. Now that they're playing stadiums, fuck you. It's just what we do. Can we talk more nerd wrestling stuff? We have a lot of wrestling. We haven't talked about Jake the Snake Roberts yet. Oh, sure. The Missing Link. I've got like spitting the Killer Khan. Like I got some stuff that I want to get off my chest here.

1:09:22You have a lot of great wrestling collectibles that we see in the background in your office. A lot of LJN. You got the Winged Eagle cut in half. Why is it cut in half? There was a, what is the name of their channel? A really great YouTube channel. Father and Son. Will it cut? Oh, they're looking on the inside. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're the best. They did that for me. Oh. Yeah, yeah. Do you have a wrestling piece of memorabilia or collectible that you're super proud of? I just bought it. I just bought a, so LJNs are my favorite collectible. Maybe period. That's a huge sports card. And I mean, I'm a huge sports card guy, but like maybe my favorite thing, and again, probably because my sis is here, like she knows we had this one holiday where our brother was about to be born and our mom was very frugal.

1:10:08We were immigrants. But this one holiday, she just went ham and we got everything. She got like the Barbie stuff, I got the wrestling stuff and we always think about it. But in general, the LJN wrestling figure is everything to me. Like it is everything to me. I just bought, so I don't know if you know this, in the LJNs, when you bought them, it came with a poster. And it's just like, you know, my sister might not even know this because I would lose things immediately when I would get a new toy. The second Star Wars was my first love, when I would get a Star Wars action figure, the lightsaber, I would literally lose it within two hours.

1:10:44Within two hours, I had to go to my mom's kitchen and be like, mom, do you have toothpicks? Because I had to use the toothpick as the lightsaber. Same with the wrestling figures. That poster would be gone in a second. But the wrestling figures came with posters. And I don't know if you know them. I remember, yeah. It was very drawn a certain way. Anyway, on Heritage Auctions a few weeks ago, the original art, like the art that made the posters went up for sale and I bought a bunch. Mr. Fuji. Oh, wow. Who I loved. I loved Mr. Fuji. I'm thinking about becoming a wrestling manager. Is that right?

1:11:19Yeah, it's on my mind, by the way. Just to pivot hard. I'm thinking that I need to hit up Triple H. I think I should have one stint as a manager. Okay. Maybe next time WrestleMania is in New York. I think I'm ready to do it. I think I should be Logan Paul's manager and maybe turn him good. He's still heel, right? Oh, yeah. People hate Logan Paul. I hate the character of Logan Paul. He's gotta have an era where he turns good. Since I discovered him in social media, I think it's a perfect plot. You discovered Logan Paul? That's right. I'm being dead serious. Logan Paul's first, I didn't, listen, Logan was gonna get discovered.

1:11:56That's a good line to say as a wrestling manager. No, I'm very aware. I discovered Logan Paul and I'm gonna flip him. I'm gonna bring him back to the good side. I knew him long before the fame. his first marketing campaigns were with VaynerMedia truth be told Jerome Jarre who was a Vine celebrity himself discovered Logan put him in front of me and I said this kid's got it and we put him in a Sour Patch Kids campaign we did a contest called for Virgin Mobile finding the next Vine star and he was the winner but I I bought these original drawings of the LJN posters and I'm just besides myself happy.

1:12:41I have a bunch of black cards. I have a ton of Hasbro, green cards, one, two, three kid, aka lightning kid. What about, I know you're deep into sports cards. Do you have any wrestling sports cards? Yeah, I have Andre's rookie which is the hand cut 1978 black and white. I have one of the only PSA 10 Ric Flair rookies. Oh, the 1982. I've got Macho Man 85 Tops rookie. I got Hogan. I think I have a Hogan PSA 982. I have a bunch of the rocks. That's the highest grade. The Bumblebee Rock. Oh, the - University of Miami football card. Perforated edges. Bumblebee tuna fish. Yes. Bumblebee tuna fish. And there's a story behind that.

1:13:24My buddy Jamil loves to tell this because he's a Miami guy. It rained that day. So you got the entire team in this perforated thing. It rained that day. So a bunch of them must have got fucked up. But I think a lot of people were just using it as like protection from the rain. I didn't know that story, that's crazy. So that's why there's even less of it. I have a serious wrestling card collection.

1:13:47And I have some weird stuff like stickers, like a lot of fun stuff. I also love like Nikita Koloff. I love the Freebirds. And like I've picked up a bunch of memorabilia. I've been thinking about starting to collect old wrestling mags. Because I used to really love those. I used to buy them in Crousers on Oak Tree Road in Edison. And that's how I learned, you know, before ESPN started to air other wrestling, the AWA and the Texas League stuff, the only way I even knew other wrestlers existed outside of WWF was the magazines. Sure. You know, like, who's Dr. Death? Steve Williams, you know, like, I was like, who's that guy?

1:14:23And, like, the Blade Runners, the Ultimate Warrior and Sting were tag team champions, I think, in the UWF as the Blade Runners. Yes. I had a lot of wrestling knowledge back then. And you still do. So you mentioned Jake the Snake Roberts. What a promo. Bro, I was so scared of that snake. I'm still scared of that snake. Damien. Damien scared the fuck out of me. And when Earthquake sat on Damien and killed Damien, it's still one of the great wrestling moves. I loved Earthquake and Typhoon, the natural disasters. Do you remember when Damien legitimately bit Macho Man? That's right. And there was blood coming out of his arm?

1:15:04That era, you know what I remember that I rarely see people talk about is on Saturday night's main event when Orndorff and Hogan both jumped out of the ring and landed at the same time and they called it a tie. Do you know this? Saturday night's main event, like again, I wish the kids understood what the world was like pre-internet. pre-internet, there was so limited information and stuff, everything was a big event. I saw something online the other day that said 1985 was the best year ever for pop culture. Maybe it was Bill Simmons. They just rattled off that. It was like, Ghostbusters. It was just like, and I was listening.

1:15:46I was like, man, that's right. And I was 10. I would tell you VFriends. I'm pretty sure the reason I created VFriends is how affected I was that I grew up in this iconic 80s pop culture IP. But like Saturday Night's Main Event, you have to understand, with no internet and no phone, you didn't know shit was happening. You'd just be watching TV and they'd be like, this week, Saturday Night's Main Event, I'm like, this, you'd be stunned and pumped and you'd try to stay up late because you were young and it was like aired late instead of SNL. But that Hogan-Orendorf match, I'll never forget because I thought Orendorf won, which was like stunning but they both landed at the same time.

1:16:25I'll never forget that. And then you would wait to get to school on Monday morning. And talk all about it. Yes. And you would find your best friend who also loved wrestling. You'd be like, can you believe what happened? Correct. Whereas now my son, him and I were watching Ronda Rousey win in 17 seconds on Netflix the other night and he's talking to friends about it in a second so there was no holding on to it. There was no that anticipation of like talking about it on the bus. Like yeah, I mean, those things are romantic to us but I'll say this to everyone who's romanticizing. Technology always goes forward.

1:16:55Today, one day my son's gonna be like, remember when it was just texting, not going into a time machine and showing, like it's gonna keep advancing. You know? Yeah, and I say this all the time, nostalgia's a hell of a drug. But I think that recency bias also plays a big factor into our lives. Oh, it's why everyone's Mount Rushmore's are broken. I'm kidding, I'm kidding everyone. But it is true. Like if you're of my era, and then I learned, I'm rapping about some wrestling here. I learned a lot of my wrestling. Liz, I don't know if you know this. There was a guy who lived by Michael Gurelick on the other side.

1:17:32He must have only been 10 or 15 years older than us. He was probably in his 20s, but he felt like he was 80 years old. But he was the one that taught me a lot about wrestling. He would wash his car and we were just riding our bikes. He told me about Koloff dropping the knee on Bruno Sammartino, Madison Square Garden and winning the title. and again there's no internet there's no like you know it was just like and for him he's if he's still alive I hope you are and he's watching this he he's like what are you talking about Bruno's on the because even though I'm going old school I can't go back to Bruno or further or you know you go back far enough like you know you go into like Buddy Rogers you go into like you can go very old school right and then there's like Dusty Rhodes and there's just like I think a lot of people to mention, it's hard to pick four.

1:18:22I have loved talking wrestling with you. And I want to be super respectful of your time. This has been amazing. Gratitude is such a huge thing for you in your life. It's a massive thing for me in my life. I wake up every day, say out loud, three things I'm grateful for. Do the same thing my wife and I do before we go to bed. It's the last question I ask everybody at the end of every episode. So Gary, what are three things you're grateful for right now? I'm only grateful for the health of my family. I do not comprehend anything else to be grateful for. Meaning, I keep it so basic. I just want the people I love to be healthy.

1:19:02I can be grateful for a million things, but they all feel frivolous. And that level of simplicity is really real. I'm also grateful that the Knicks are in the Eastern Conference Finals. I'm really happy about that. By the time this airs, they may be in the NBA finals. When is this airing? Maybe like two-ish weeks. Okay, good. They may be. Honestly, that has been the framework of my life. I think it's important to go lower than that for fun. But if you're asking the truth, it's really hard for me to get excited about much outside of that. And I would say in that quiet, in that understanding, all the highlights, all the lowlights, all the fancy things, all the calm things, they're just all so secondary.

1:19:46I've not been able to live my life for a very long time now in any other way than thinking, okay, this thing or that thing. How much does it really matter if XYZ is happening, which is ultimately somebody in my family is not in a good spot health-wise? So I'm only grateful for that. It's the only thing worth being grateful for. For me, with me, everybody else can do what they do, but for me, it's how I see it. I love that. I also want to thank you because randomly, for absolutely no reason, For a very specific reason. On December 8th, 2022. Keep going, CVV. That's it. Can I tell you why I did that?

1:20:24This has been maybe the coolest chapter of my professional career. Probably around that time, maybe a couple years earlier. I'm like, oh my God. If I take one second, so I'm consuming content. Sure. If I see something I like, if I take one second and DM this person, they're gonna think it's cool. That was super, you know, that's not how I ever saw my life playing out. You know, I always just wanted to be a businessman. I never knew that people would know who I was. I wrote an article about this called the Ricky Henderson rule. Ricky Henderson, when I was 10 years old, I went to a Yankee game, and I thought he winked at me, and it meant everything to me.

1:21:06I've now come to realize he probably winked at a girl in the crowd, but I was sitting next to. but I mean here I am 40 years later I can feel the way I felt when I thought Ricky Henderson winked at me to feel that for you when you got do you remember? Yeah I remember. Yeah it felt good. Yeah. By the way. Did you carry me? Back to wrestling. When the rock followed me that meant something to me. Like I know what it feels like and so I want to scale positivity and I don't do it for this Lee. I want to do it for things that I think someone's emerging someone's doing something interesting I think people need I know the game's hard too I know what people do when they make content it's not an easy game it's so easy to quit you talked about the cliche one one video, seven, nine, ten almost everyone does that do you know how many get somewhere and then still give up get to 150 ,000 followers but then they get stale for six months and for some reason they stop and they never get back on so I know that I don't know what is happening with you on the other side when I say that or to the thousands that I've sent that message to but I know the outcome can't be bad you know either they needed it as an extra boost to keep going or they think it's super cool or even if they don't think I'm cool it's like it's just nice like even if it doesn't carry a lot of weight with them who doesn't want to hear like you're doing a good job yeah The Rock always says this quote that I love it's nice to be important it's more important to be nice.

1:22:39Yeah, I mean, that's very real. I believe in that the most. It's a great quote. So good. Gary V, thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Hey, everybody, if you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention. And thanks for being part of this. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. The message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just$15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment.

1:23:15Anyway, give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three-month plan, equivalent to$15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only. Then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com. Dirty. See you later.