Why Social Media Creators & Brands Must Embrace Change | Joel Duncan

0:00What do you want people's one takeaway to be? that organic social media creative is disproportionately underestimated by almost everybody on earth. Social media ads and social media is what humans actually see, not best print campaign. We're watching plenty of TV. Everybody here is watching plenty of shows. We're not watching the commercials in between the shows. There's a speed of virality right now that's throwing people off. Everybody can have 15 minutes of fame, but one, some people don't have the depth of actual skill to get people excited. There's a lot of reasons that there's a lot of thing called one hit wonders.

0:38Attention evolves. It's really the most obvious thing for me in the world, meaning there'll always be new mediums and there'll always be people that fill that medium. So your book, why now?

0:54A combination of a couple of things. One, both from creators and from brands where I live in both of those worlds, I could feel the tension that they're all feeling like, hey, social's changing and am I in a good spot or not? Meaning this whole movement that I talk about in the book about the TikTokification of social media. Yeah. You could feel like from the incumbents of creator land, they can feel it's harder to get views. Yeah. And the big brands are feeling that brand is starting to actually be built in social in a way that makes them uncomfortable. It's less television. It's more social.

1:36And I just felt like I was ready to write it. I felt like I was in the right mindset and could articulate what was actually happening. And so I always write when I feel like I can provide something. and so it felt like the confusion of the current moment we're in with social was an opportunity to help people. And what do you think, what do you want people's one takeaway to be? If they get one thing away from them, what would that be? That organic social media creative is disproportionately underestimated by almost everybody on earth.

2:14And that there's a substantial strategy and skill set to be good at it, not happy Tuesday or a photo of the three of us, can, yay. Like it's not spray and pray, it's not throw against the wall and see what sticks, it's not matching luggage to your campaign, it is the punchline. Do you feel there are any industries, based on what you just said, any industries that are more kind of I guess, maybe a bit more, no disrespect to any other industries, is a bit more archaic in their thinking in that respect. And some industries are a bit more forward-thinking. Yes, I think this industry is the most archaic.

2:55I think the Fortune 500 holding company marketing ecosystem does not view social media as important. Okay. So that actually leads on nicely to, cool, with Cannes and Cannes Lions, they do their annual events, et cetera, their annual award ceremonies. What do you think about that? What do you think about kind of the, I guess, some of the world's machines? Do you feel that they have that kind of 360 feel or what's your kind of thoughts and how impactful do you feel it is to the consumer? To the consumer? This is a non-event to the consumer. It often feels like it's almost, they're almost tapping themselves in the back.

3:40It's exactly what this is. There's one, 100%. Which is, by the way, which is amazingly fine. Yeah. There's not an industry that doesn't do it. The auto industry, I don't have a problem with the industry celebrating itself. I mean, this is joyous. There's so much nice stuff going on this week. Relationships, business development. It's lovely. But if we're talking about does the consumer care, this is not the Oscars. It's not the Grammys. This is nothing close to that. And so, you know, and I think that that's what leads to, if this was actually consumer-centric, I do believe that social media would be a much bigger part of the event.

4:30Social media ads and social media is what humans actually see, not best print campaign. Yeah. I was at the World Summit last year, and also when they were going through the different nominations and the really great entries but I've never seen any of it any of it I'm like how am I not seeing this great great TV ad because it's not where I'm at because you're a human being in society it's just it's the gig is the gig is up in a way that's hard for the industry to swallow and I'm empathetic to that it's um but yeah I mean I think I mean I think this is an industry event which is fine but what do you think the reasons are do you feel they're scared to embrace the change do you feel it's an individual thing for people no I think people are protecting the money I think it's the money you know it's I think that the advertising industry is desperately trying to keep the Fortune 500 companies marketing budgets within themselves in things that are profitable.

5:44Television's profitable. Programmatic digital executions are profitable. So, see you guys. So I think it's a business thing. Awards justify creative AORs. Yeah. You know? Yeah, it does.

6:06Looking into the TV industry, And then you mentioned how when it comes to TV advertising, traditionally it comes to the grand spending. Hundreds of thousands of thousands of TV ads are not in the future of any other kind of area. And you mentioned in the future that's definitely going to change. But on the flip side, from a TV company's perspective, how do you feel that they can adapt to this? I think TV needs to go back to how TV started. I think TV, if you look at it in the 50s and 60s, was very heavily based on product integration. I think that's what we're going to see. We're watching plenty of TV.

6:51Everybody here is watching plenty of shows. We're not watching the commercials in between the shows. People come to me all the time like, Gary, TV consumption is up. I'm like, no shit. That has nothing to do with TV commercials. not to mention streaming services don't have commercials most of the time at least not Netflix obviously Hulu and others do so you know I'm like you know I think that the TV industry but kudos to the TV industry I think they have been adapting in the US one of the things that I really like is during American football instead of going to commercials now they have a split screen where they're showing you the sideline and then there's a commercial which actually has made me personally and many others because I read a lot on this see a little bit more of the ads.

7:38Yeah. Yeah. Because it's interesting because it's right there. You have to. You want to see the game and it's in your view. Correct. I'm trying to watch what the Jets quarterback is saying to the coach but it's a split screen so I have to see the State Farm ad or Bud Light ad and so yeah, I think the TV industry is trying and I think they'll continue to try because they're going to be forced to. Moving on to the music side of things, where do you see, because I guess in particularly in the UK, up-and-coming artists, grassroots artists, there's almost a big disconnect between them and their audience.

8:24So what we might like is artists that particularly blew up during the lockdown period. They generate loads of views, they've got singles deals or an album deal from a big label, but they didn't have the audience, the cult quality, they didn't actually have the fan base. They just got great numbers, so I guess what, from your opinion, could an artist do to help have that cult fan base and really kind of grow that on the social media platform? because you know the numbers are great many views on this TikTok great label comes in they get signed but they don't have that cold following because of like lots of like I think it's less yeah I think there's a lot to that there's you're taking it one path there's two paths in that question in my opinion one I wrote a book many years ago called The Thank You Economy that really talks about having a deep fan base instead of a wide one to your point a cold following that to your point artists now can put out one video, one hook, and get millions of views and seemingly have something going.

9:29But they haven't played 50 shows with 30 people in it, then 50 people in it, then they haven't built up. And then two, they're not using social to actually engage with people. They're just yelling at people, not engaging with people. So, you know, I think that there's a speed of virality right now that's throwing people off everybody can have 15 minutes of fame but one some people don't have the depth of actual skill to get people excited some artists are just not there's a lot of reasons that there's a lot of things called one hit wonders even before the internet there was people that had the ability to make one song but not an album not a fan base I think we're just seeing that play out on, that's right, right?

10:25Because to me it's nothing new. It's just, you know, it's in our faces now. Oh my God, 30 million, well, there's so many one-hit wonders that had one song that kept them on the radio for a year. They toured, like the whole thing and then it was over, one song. And so I think that's what we're seeing, one-hit wonder dynamics playing out in social. To your point, they don't have to have it that way. If they actually, if somebody who had a one-hit wonder on TikTok replied to every single person that left a comment, they would convert 10 % of them into hardcore fans and then actually be able to build something.

11:00I guess with some artists, it's not really in them to, a lot of artists that I know, they're really quite introverted and they really don't want to put themselves out there and it's like they're not filled on that. Yeah, a lot of artists aren't artists. They're not business people, they're not marketers. That's why it's important to have a team around you. Quick thoughts, what are your thoughts on the live streamers? I'm saying that, especially now that's mentioned Drake and Kendra, and how it's fascinating you have Drake who's really immersed, who you'd feel in the culture, immersed in what's going on next, all these live streamers, and someone like Kendra who's the complete opposite and Drake would communicate with live streams when he's about to release a song and really utilize that platform.

11:51Before it used to be the radio, now it's the live streamings I've been doing. Yeah, Kyson and all that. That's it. And Kendrick would release his songs during live streams to literally get their reactions. So I just don't even know, what are your thoughts about the live stream? It's the entire concept of day trading attention. Attention evolves. And to me, you know, Kai and the gamers and everybody else, you know, Aiden Ross, all that, it's just, it's really the most obvious thing for me in the world. Meaning there'll always be new mediums and there'll always be people that fill that medium. So Dick Clark, you know, worked for television and radio.

12:29He, you know, disc jockeys worked for radio. MTV came out and Carson Daly worked for MTV. So what do I think? I think they have a lot of attention of youth culture. And if I'm trying to sell to youth culture, it's a really good platform, period. And so Kevin Hart's tapping in now, as you see. Drewski and all this, it all makes sense. It's how you build fame, wherever the attention is. Whether it's television or film or radio or newspaper or social media or Twitch, it's one and the same, it's my point of the whole thing here. Do you know how many people here this entire week have paid attention to, can name three streamers?

13:13That's interesting. You want to make a good piece of content? Stand on the main strip right now. Stop people with badges from creative agencies and ask them to name three streamers. There's no understanding of the currency of where the attention is. That is the biggest issue. That would be a great piece of content. Excellent, Gary!