Did Trump and Xi get what they wanted?

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:30No bouncing between tabs. And best of all, no spreadsheets. Stop managing software and start managing your business with one unified system. Try for free today at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. Self-directed investing. Trading. Full-service wealth management. Automated investing. Financial planning. Thematic investing. Retirement planning. Phew. And to think, that's just a small taste of what Schwab offers. Because Schwab knows that when it comes to your finances, choice matters. No matter your goals, investing style, life stage or experience, Schwab has everything you need, all in one place, so you can invest your way.

1:11Visit schwab.com to learn more. Donald Trump has often sounded like this on China. China's pattern of misconduct is well known. For decades, they've ripped off the United States like no one has ever done before. But in Beijing this week, he sounded a bit more like this. It's an honour to be with you. It's an honour to be your friend. Here he is speaking to the Chinese leader Xi Jinping. And the relationship between China and the USA is going to be better than ever before. Does Xi Jinping feel the same way? From the BBC, I'm Tristan Redmond in Paris. And today on The Global Story, has Donald Trump's China visit left his relationship with Xi Jinping stronger or weaker?

2:15And we're joined today, I'm very pleased to say, by the BBC's China correspondent, Laura Bicker. Laura, so good to have you with us. Nice to be with you. Nice to be with you. I mean, it's such a quiet time here in China. Absolutely. I mean, you've had a, what's it been, 48 hours now? A wee bit of a whirlwind, yeah. Yeah, a wee bit of a whirlwind. Lots of pomp, lots of pageantry. Well, what have been the big moments for you? Talk us through the scenes. So let's start with that handshake. 14 seconds, 14 seconds for a handshake. It didn't just feel like an ordinary greeting. It felt like kind of almost a symbol of global power.

2:56You had these two leaders coming together. You had the handshake. Donald Trump gave him a little pat on the hand. And then even as the hands separated, there was the pat on the shoulder. It did seem that that was the moment. Here we have the two leading economic powers in the world, the two leaders of the world's superpowers together. Let's see what's going to happen. So that set the scene. And then we had this military parade. So we had this honour guard, which welcomes many visitors, but they even had a 21-gun salute for the United States during the national anthem. And President Trump was invited to inspect the honour guard.

3:36So the two leaders walk the red carpet. But as they do so, there is a moment that just sits with me every time because these honour guards, they are highly trained and their eyes track the leaders absolutely in sync. And then as they came down past all the soldiers, they came to this crowd of cheering children and they're all there waving their American and Chinese flags. And Donald Trump reveled in it. You could see he paused twice to wave to the children. And I think when it comes to that kind of welcome, it sets the tone. It was designed, it was carefully choreographed to flatter the US president before they even headed into the Great Hall of the People and started those talks.

4:22Then there was the kind of difference in tone between President Xi and Donald Trump. You mentioned there what Donald Trump had to say, but President Xi started it off very friendly, very cordial, but they're very careful with their language here in China. President Trump, on the other hand, his remarks sounded unscripted and he really lavished praise on his host. For someone who's built his political brand on being tough on China, watching that exchange was very, very interesting because here we have a Donald Trump who was there almost sounding deferential. And for, you know, you're sitting talking to analysts a lot of the time here in China.

5:03And we're all looking at the balance of power and wondering if it's shifting. And I think when I spoke to analysts even before this visit, what they were saying is what they were watching for is for the first time, the United States is beginning to acknowledge they are dealing with a near peer in China. When Donald Trump came for the first time in 2017, he came to a very different China than the one he's been in for the last 48 hours. I have to ask you about the banquet because one of the things that's really stood out to me was these incredibly elaborate place settings. There was a table which appeared to have a sort of miniature park, lake, pond with birds in the middle of it.

5:48Is this a thing in China? You mean you don't have a table at home with some birds in the middle of it? Actually, birds are a sign of prosperity here in China. It used to be a sign, if you owned a bird, that you were prosperous and you were well-to-do. So they're a sign of good luck, which is why they appear in so much Chinese kind of embroidery and on table settings. So, yeah, I mean, what a place to have a banquet. You know, when they were led in and you could see these huge tables, these rooms are cavernous. But for dinner, I know what you want to hear. You want to know what they were eating, right?

6:28So for dinner, there was, of course, Beijing roast duck. What else are you going to serve the US president here in Beijing? It's delicious. Come and try it. There was also beef ribs. Strangely, there was also tiramisu for dessert. I couldn't work out whether that's maybe someone's favourite dessert, but there was tiramisu for dessert. It's definitely an unexpected appearance from the tiramisu, isn't it? I think watching Chinese media is also always quite interesting because Donald Trump was trending on Chinese social media and they were all, one of the things, obviously, Chinese people are really eager to know is what's the president going to eat?

7:05What they noted was that a lot of the flavours are a lot milder, maybe very well-known Chinese dishes. So there was a feeling that perhaps they were trying to tone down a lot of the flavours of the food for the Western palate. So there was no hot pot, for instance, on the menu with duck blood intestines and very, very hot peppers. But it was all kind of beef ribs, roast duck, stewed beef and buns. So there was some bauze. So these kind of traditional Chinese dishes, but not ones that have the real punch with a flavour. I mean, it does all sound very good. I have to ask you about the etiquette of toasting, because there is some video that I saw of Donald Trump raising a glass.

7:51It looks like it has white wine or maybe champagne in it. clinking glasses and then it looks like he's sipping from it we obviously don't know whether he actually swallowed any of what was in in the glass um but it does seem unusual to me to be asking you know maybe the world's most noted teetotaler uh to cheers with you what's the etiquette on that and how important are these toasts i think when it comes to toast so even with the etiquette there's even more to it although that obviously wasn't in view when you come to clinking you've got to the most senior person in the room and the most junior person in the room so your glass if you're senior your glass stays up and the junior person has to clink below the rim of the glass not above these are important little details here but when it comes to the toast it may have been apple juice it may have so there's you know but in terms of toasting in terms of eating together.

8:46These are important rituals, not just in China, but across much of East Asia. Can we get down to brass tacks? What was the fundamental hope on each side for what would emerge from this meeting? And did they get anywhere near achieving it? So both sides had very different priorities. But let's start with a big overriding issue, the war in Iran. Now, before these talks started, I think the focus was always hoping to be on trade. Remember, we've had a year of a trade war where these tit-for-tat tariffs raised over 100%. That ended in a trade truce in October when the two leaders met in South Korea.

9:25Now, the hope was that they could continue that trade truce. And it does seem that we are hearing that is a possibility. So at least we have that. But the overarching theme of all of this has been the war in Iran, the war in Iran, the war in Iran. And it does seem that every single question and every single answer that Donald Trump has given has been on the Middle East conflict. Why? Because China can play a key role. Beijing is a key ally of Tehran. Beijing buys most of Iranian oil, about 80 % of Iran's oil. Beijing is also an ally dating back decades for Tehran. There has been a hope within the US administration that President Xi could use that economic and diplomatic leverage to nudge Tehran towards the negotiating table.

10:17Now, before he took off and arrived here in Beijing, Donald Trump said, I don't need China's help. Despite those assurances, both Marco Rubio and other US officials have been saying publicly that they hoped President Xi would wait in. Now, within the last few hours, I can tell you that we have had a statement from the Chinese Foreign Ministry, once again calling for a ceasefire, once again saying that the conflict needed to come to an end. But they have come the closest that I've seen to admitting that they are working behind the scenes. They say they are working tirelessly to try to bring an end to this conflict.

10:52It is in China's interests. I think there are many reasons for this. First of all, China depends on the global economy to survive. In terms of exports, that is what's propping up this economy. And before, if I'd been just kind of Beijing based, I would have said to you, look, you know, the war in Iran, diplomatically, politically, it's a bit of a win for President Xi. But on the ground, it is hurting many factories and many producers of things like textiles and plastics. So in terms of getting its economy moving, they need the war in Iran to end. And of course, China depends on the Strait of Hormuz to get most of its energy, about 45 % of its oil comes through the Strait of Hormuz.

11:33So when it comes to that kind of calculation, Beijing will want to step in. And it does seem that that has been a discussion and it does seem that they both agree Iran should not have nuclear weapons and that they want the Strait of Hormuz opened. So we'll see how from here how much Beijing or how willing Beijing is to wade into that conflict. But I think for many analysts, what they'll say is the fact that this meeting happened at all is a win. Were the words that Xi Jinping used about Donald Trump as warm as those that Trump addressed to Xi? The words that President Xi used are the ones that I've heard a lot.

12:12He's talking about the great power competition, how they should be partners, not rivals, how it should be win-win competition between the two superpowers. So I think when it comes to President Xi's words, they were the same that I'd heard many, many times before. It was very, as I said, carefully scripted. But what we didn't hear on the tape was when we got a readout from Chinese state media, President Xi warned Donald Trump and the United States that when it came to the issue of Taiwan, that is where these two superpowers could collide. That is where he said there was a danger of conflict and clashes.

12:49Now, we've heard this kind of language before, but to hear it in this context and know that President Xi said these words to Donald Trump in the room, that I thought, considering Donald Trump's tone at the start of the talks, I thought that was very, very interesting. So I don't think the tone was as warm, but President Xi is more kind of like a professor. And you saw this with many of the events. He enjoys apparently giving history lessons and he will really have taken pleasure in showing Donald Trump around the 15th century Temple of Heaven. This is a former sacrificial altar where emperors used to go and pray for very good harvests.

13:30And I think when it comes to this tour and when it comes to this summit, President Xi has been careful every single step. And I think Donald Trump was unusually quiet on the issue of Taiwan. When it came to the cameras, there was a bit of a scramble with a pool feed and a couple of reporters started shouting out to Donald Trump at the photo opportunity at the Temple of Heaven. Did you talk about Taiwan? Did you talk about Taiwan? Donald Trump said, oh, it's been good discussions. China is beautiful. Someone pushed again. Did you talk about Taiwan? And then Donald Trump stayed silent. He knows this is a contentious issue.

14:07And he knows that he also has to be careful with his language. So I think when it came to watching the dynamic between these two leaders and how it's changed in China, different to how Donald Trump is when he's traveling the United States, that was very interesting. Laura, let's talk a little bit about body language. In the past on the global story, we've spent quite a bit of time talking about how Xi Jinping manages handshakes. How would you look at the body language on this trip overall between the two men? I think when I've seen them together, I thought when, especially the Temple of Heaven, I thought it looked like Donald Trump was definitely more deferential to his host.

14:50And that is because President Xi, you know, he's president of China. He's, you know, Donald Trump is basically on his turf. But there was definitely a lot of kind of nodding, a lot of kind of to the side. Donald Trump was aware that he was definitely the guest in this country. And President Xi is the leader. And even he says that a lot, you know, you're a great leader, you're a great leader, that you've been a great host. China's a beautiful country. Very aware that this kind of language helps, perhaps, when he goes into talks. So I did think that as well as the tone of the language, the tone of the body language was also slightly differential from Donald Trump.

15:29President Xi is very hard to read. His facial expressions, his body language barely changes. He stays in the same position for every single leader and for every kind of shot. He doesn't give anything away. I think Donald Trump has said in the past, especially in Busan, oh, he's a tough negotiator, he's a tough negotiator. President Trump and President Xi are two opposites when it comes to body language and when it comes to the careful choreography and when it comes to scripting. Mr. Trump is a showman. He likes to show off in front of the cameras. He likes to kind of ad lib. He likes to kind of do whether it's his own little dance and his own little signature moves.

16:11President Xi's signature move, He doesn't stray from the kind of staid leader that he believes China wants. And he's unwilling often to kind of even stray from the path of any kind of script, any kind of choreography. So that's why I say they're totally opposites. I think on this occasion as well, I thought, I mean, I thought President Trump really was uncharacteristically quiet.

16:47I think it will be interesting to see what's announced at the end of this and if anything comes out from any of the background calls. I mean, because one of the things as a correspondent here in China is also opaque. It's also difficult. And as you say, the only things we have are the readouts, the body language and the pictures. So it's very difficult to read into what might have gone on behind the scenes.

17:15Well, Donald Trump may have been on Xi's turf, as you say, but it looks like he made an effort to rectify that imbalance in the sense that he brought his gang with him. There were 30 CEOs who made the trip along with Donald Trump. Why so many? Who were they and what did they achieve? So I think to give you the three main ones, Boeing was the Boeing CEO was here. And I think one of the reasons for that was because they are that the US is eager for China to buy more Boeing aircraft. And when it comes to that outcome, President Trump says that China has agreed to buy some Boeing aircraft. Then there was Elon Musk with his son, which we were surprised to see.

17:57Elon Musk is a frequent visitor to China. He has a massive Tesla factory near Shanghai. And obviously, when it comes to electric vehicles and vehicle sales, China is now the leading exporter of vehicles around the world, which is a real challenge to US manufacturers. And then, of course, you had the key one. And this was the one that was trending on Chinese social media. And that was the NVIDIA chief, Jason Wang. Now, the reason he's so important is because China is trying to push towards some kind of robotics revolution. Artificial intelligence, humanoid robots, these are what President Xi terms his new technological forces.

18:35Now, I've seen this in action. I've seen dancing robots, running robots, robots serving me my dinner. When it comes to robots, I've seen them in factories. There are more robots in Chinese factories than anywhere else in the world. But China's very good so far at building the body, but it needs help with the robot brain. They are catching up. So homegrown chip suppliers here in China are catching up, but they're not quite there yet. China wants access to the high-end NVIDIA chips and those have been restricted by Washington for some time. Donald Trump kind of lifted some of those restrictions but not all.

19:08So I think when it comes to NVIDIA chief, not only do they want to sell to China, China wants to buy. It's a case of if Donald Trump will let him. So those were the kind of main chief executives I spotted but you obviously had the Apple CEO, you had others here, many of them tech bosses, because obviously when it comes to technology, that is something that China is racing towards and could buy a lot of American goods. You alluded earlier on, very briefly, we touched on the subject of Taiwan, which is obviously one of the big ones. What, if anything, did we learn about the Taiwan tensions between China and the United States on this trip?

19:48As I said, I think the interesting thing was the warning that President Xi gave. We haven't learned anything from the US side. We are told that that might be to come. Now, remember, the United States provides arms to Taiwan, but those aid packages have been kind of delayed by Donald Trump so far, perhaps ahead of this visit. And those aid packages are something that China believes should stop. And we do believe that President Xi has pressed Donald Trump into trying to stop arms sales heading to the self-governing island that Beijing claims as its own and has not ruled out taking by force. So when it comes to Taiwan, we are still waiting to hear from the US side what was agreed, if anything.

20:31But there was certainly that very, very clear warning that when it comes to Taiwan, that is where these two sides could come into conflict. That is China's deepest, darkest red line. How is all of this being reported by Chinese media? and how are Chinese people on the ground that you're speaking to seeing it, Laura? I think, so the Chinese state media and newspapers this morning were plastered with the pomp and ceremony of yesterday morning's kind of military parade. But all the headline said was President Xi met Donald Trump. They go into very great detail about the Chinese side of the statements that are read out, which are very long, very full of diplomatic language and talked about how it may reach a new era of US-China relations, talked about the strengthening of cooperation, of deepening their understanding of each other and their genuine understanding of each other.

21:31And that is how very much how Chinese people see this. They see it as important in terms of lowering trade tensions. They see it as important in terms of the global issues with regards to the war in Iran. They say it in terms of their own pocket. What might this mean for me? And a lot of people have a lot of investments, whether it's in gold or whether it's even money stuffed under your mattress. They want to know that that money is going to go far. And for that, they want one thing and that's stability. I think the word stability was mentioned in one paragraph of Chinese state media about five or six times.

22:09And I think you and I have talked about this on previous podcasts, when it comes to China, the key thing for presidency is stability to grow this country's economy. And that is because I think when it came to the rise of the Communist Party, remember where we were maybe just two generations ago here in China, you had families who were struggling to get enough to eat. There was incredible levels of poverty. And now two decades on, it really is the world's second superpower. Presidency has been welcoming, you know countries from all over the world including Canada the United Kingdom and Germany all here coming here eager to do a deal and so Beijing will see itself as rising and in order to keep doing that the Communist Party has to ensure that it's looking after its own people and that its people are still becoming rich and right now there are real challenges here rising unemployment, there's a real estate crisis, real uneven growth, which is easy to see on the streets.

23:08So people here are eager to know that if there is stability, then their own investments, their own money can go further. And that's important to many, many ordinary workers and ordinary business owners. Well, Laura, you and I are speaking Friday morning, Paris time where I am, early afternoon in Beijing where you are. Donald Trump has just recently taken off from Beijing and is on his way back to the United States. There is some thinking that maybe some of the main communication from the American side might come once he has actually left China. And we know that Donald Trump is something of a fan of communicating specifically on board Air Force One, the plane.

23:50But on balance, as we sit here now, Laura, what's your report card for both of these two leaders in terms of who achieved their aims and how well did they do? It depends what those aims were. I think for China, the aim was Taiwan. The aim was to ensure that the United States went away and realised that the big issue for them is Taiwan, the big red line is Taiwan. And I think President Xi has done that. I think for Donald Trump, he wanted perhaps Beijing's help to end the war in Iran. That is a tick. But in terms of getting a signature trade deal. Remember, Donald Trump has been trying to get a trade deal with China since he first became president back in 2016.

24:31In terms of getting a lasting trade deal, that is still apparently quite far off. He also needs China to buy more American goods, things like American soybeans, American beef. Now, there are hints that that may have happened, and we hope to hear more in the coming hours. But again, unless he gets that signature deal, that is something that he wants as a win at home that he can sell domestically to help his falling approval ratings. So in terms of that, until we see that as a win, then I would say that Donald Trump still has work to do. But of course, there are other opportunities this year. In fact, the leaders may make a total of four times.

25:11And there is that reciprocal invitation in September. So there may be more to come on this. Donald Trump may see this as unfinished business and may hope to get it done before the end of his term. Well, they may be meeting four times, Laura, but as you revealed to me just before we started this recording, Xi Jinping has another very important visitor arriving in Beijing soon, we believe, which I was very surprised by. Can you bring in our listeners on that bit of info, please? Who's coming? Well, Vladimir Putin is apparently coming to China on one of his many visits to Beijing. Vladimir Putin travels here a lot and he was expected to arrive at kind of end of May, beginning of June.

25:55But the timing is a little bit awkward. I mean, obviously, this visit by Donald Trump, he was supposed to come in March and it's been delayed because of the war in Iran. So the timing is not deliberate. But, you know, you're saying goodbye to the American president and then you're welcoming the Russian one. When it comes to kind of rolling out the red carpet. President Xi is becoming an expert.

26:23Thank you so much, Laura. Great to have you. Lovely to talk to you again. Hope to speak to you soon.

26:37That was the BBC's China correspondent, Laura Bicker, speaking to us from Beijing. and that's it for the global story for today if you have any thoughts or questions for us our email address as always is theglobalstory at bbc.com today's episode was produced by hannah moore and valerio esposito it was edited by james shield our senior news editor is china collins i'm tristan redman have a lovely weekend everyone we'll see you next week cheerio