Iran under attack: The view from inside

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1:15When Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was killed, some Iranians mourned his death publicly in the streets of Tehran. But others took to the streets to celebrate the Supreme Leader's demise.

1:32A lot of the celebrations we've seen among Iranians have come from members of the Iranian diaspora around the world. Whether in London, Washington, or Sydney. It would be like a giant party, lots of people dancing and singing and embracing, talking. We want to understand what's happening to Iranians inside Iran. So coming up, we'll be talking with our colleague Parham Gurbadi from BBC Persian. Now, despite an internet blackout, he and his colleagues have been figuring out ways to reach Iranians in Iran. As airstrikes continue to rain down on the country.

2:20From the BBC, I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. And I'm Tristan Redmond in London. And today on The Global Story, what's life like in Iran right now? And what do Iranians want?

2:38Paham, it's great to have you back with us. We're speaking to you on Tuesday afternoon, and we just want to note that time because it's plausible that the situation on the ground may change by the time listeners hear this. Now, Iranians have been under fire now for four days. At the BBC Persian service, you've been speaking to people inside in Iran in spite of the communications blackout. What have they been telling you? How are people coping? So the feeling is divided. Some of the people, they welcome an attack on Iranian, especially commanders and the leadership. So we received so many videos after Ayatollah Khomeini was killed.

3:22People were celebrating, people were cheering. In other smaller towns, people were dancing in the street, honking their horns. So there was a sense of happiness when they realized that he was dead. Some Iranians, obviously. However, as the war goes on, you know, sentiments can change because the bombs are dropping. So feelings are fluid. I hear more and more people are becoming concerned when they try to, for example, target a police station, but also the building next to it collapses. And if you have a relative there, so scenes like that can make people doubt if this is only about military leadership and there are going to be civilian casualties anyway in wars.

4:09But Iranians overall, to answer your questions, are divided. Some welcome the idea. They say that we've had enough under this brutal regime. They are going to kill us anyway. So it's better to see their end even if we get killed. Some others, they do not see it like that. They say that a foreign invasion has never led to democracy. So it's unlikely that this one will lead to a democracy. Have you been hearing from your own family and friends? I have. So my father just gave me a call yesterday and it was a relief after a few days. Was that the first time you heard from him? Yes, it was the first time.

4:45Because I realized one of our relatives died a day before the attack. And so they were on the way to the cemetery that the attack started. So through a friend of a friend, we managed to call them and we realized that they got stuck in a traffic jam. And I was extremely worried that they're going to be somewhere and mistakenly that that place is bombed. And they got stuck in a traffic jam. So it took them six hours to just get back home because of the traffic jam. And during that six hours, it was a tough six hours. Parham, where I sit in Washington, D.C., in the United States, we've heard very little about what this war looks like inside Iran.

5:25You've been speaking with people. Can you give us a sense of the conversations you've had or your colleagues have had? What have you heard? We have to keep in mind that this is happening right after that brutal crackdown of Iranian protesters that left a huge scar on Iranians' minds. Like it was a sense of national trauma that I've never seen before. I mean, I've seen brutal crackdowns by the Iranian regime, but this one was totally different. Thousands were killed. Everybody knew somebody who was killed. So many people have this unprecedented anger towards this. But that's like I said, this you cannot generalize that.

6:05Yeah, I've heard that sentence a lot, but that's not everyone. There are some people inside the country that they are extremely, you know, unhappy to see the bombs are dropping, you know, on their hometown. For me personally, when I see it, I lived in that city for 29 years of my life. And, you know, for example, yesterday I was seeing this video that the window was open and there was an explosion nearby. And there's just this wave of explosion moving the curtains and blowing the curtains away. It was unbelievable. It was surreal to see things like that happening in a huge city with millions of population like Tehran.

6:41I see it, but it's unprecedented for me. It's unbelievable for me. So, and what we hear and my colleagues are hearing is that those who can afford it, they're leaving Tehran. Those who can afford not doing their day job, they're leaving Tehran. They're going to other, especially north of Iran, is usually safer by the Caspian Sea, is usually safer place to be in. However, there are many people who can't do it. They were already before this. They were struggling to make the ends meet, especially because right before this war, there was this protest. And during the protest, many people just stopped working.

7:16They were not able to go to work. So some of the Iranians just have lost most of their income since January. And even before that, they were having a difficult time making the ends meet. So they have to go to work. They have to show up. And you see, that's one of the most bizarre things. I was looking at the video today and I saw this highway that is full of taxis. Taxis in Iran are yellow and some of them are green. You could see taxis going. and then it was a clear sky and there was this huge plume of smoke rising. I was like, what are you people doing outside? So people are still going to work.

7:54People are still going to work and you see people on the street. And the first day, so, and in other videos, you see that as well. You see that somewhere is bombed and people are just going about their business or it's clear that they were doing their business. They were doing their shopping. But apart from that, you see very long queues for petrol. People are worried. And that's one of the reactions. They want to have enough petrol in their car to be able to escape if things become more dire and more serious. So that and the other thing is that people are trying to save up some cash at home. If ATM machines, you know, cash machines stop working.

8:31But yeah, some of the people who cannot leave the city, they still have to go about their business and try to make some money for their families. However, we need to keep in mind that many people just refuse to leave their homes because there is a war going on. We had the same problem during the 12-day war with Persian parents. That's the problem I had with my own parents. And I wrote an article on BBC as well that my parents wouldn't leave. So he told me that if we get killed, we'd rather get killed together here in my own home rather than in someone else's flat or be a refugee or be. So I'm 70 years old.

9:08Even if I die, I'd rather die in my own house. And this was not just my parents. I heard that many people like me heard the same thing from their parents. And how much do we know about casualty figures? How many people have actually been killed on the ground? The latest update we've got is over 700 people, according to Iranian officials. But we don't know how many of those are civilians, how many of those are military personnel, because many military headquarters were targeted. But we know that the first place that was bombed was Ayatollah Khamenei's compound. And right after that, after a few hours, we hear...

9:43State TV claimed that a school in the south of the country was hit. That a school is bombed. The world must know the truth. This is a child's textbook. The children are buried beneath the rubble and they were all civilians. So the school is in the southern part of Iran, on the coast of the Persian Gulf. And so the number of the casualties at the school started rising up. And today it rose up to 168 people. These are kids from seven to nine, extremely young kids in a primary school. But to find who is responsible is very difficult. Obviously, those who are in the opposition are extremely suspicious of anything happens in Iran and they see Iranian regime behind everything.

10:28But there is no evidence for that. And Israelis said that it was not our fault. We were not involved. However, Marco Rubio, American foreign minister, said that we never intentionally target schools. Our colleague Tom Bateman, in fact, asked Marco Rubio about that school. Can you tell us what you know, Mr. Secretary, or the administration knows, about the strike on a building in southern Iran that the Iranians are saying was a school, reports of large numbers of civilians, including children killed. I've seen those reports. I don't have, I would refer you, not because I'm not trying to answer your question, but I don't want to get it wrong.

11:02The Department of War would be investigating that if that was our strike. And I would refer your question to them. And I'll make sure they're aware that you have that question. Are there indications this was an American missile? Well, clearly the United States would not deliberately target a school. Well, nobody intentionally targets the schools. But has it happened unintentionally? That's the main question. And at BBC Persian, my colleagues managed to find out that this is called what was right next to a Revolutionary Guard's base. So was it unintentionally targeted by the Americans? We don't know yet.

11:34At this point, Parham, the population of Iran has been hit by a number of strikes. What is the Iranian government doing at all to protect civilians? What has been their messaging to the population? So the main message is that we are in control because they do not want to see that they're losing control. They have lost their supreme leader who was in charge of the country for 36 years. So they've lost not only that, but the head of the Revolutionary Guard and so many other commanders at the same time. So I'm really surprised that they are still in power because in many other countries, when you have the entire military commanders and the head of the state as the most powerful man in the state is killed, usually in many countries that will lead to the collapse of the state and the regime is toppled.

12:24However, we see that the Iranian regime has survived so far and not only survived, they launched a barrage of missiles against Israel that they said it was the 15th round of missiles against Israel. And not only Israel, we know that they're targeting all the neighboring countries, Arab countries, plus Cyprus is being targeted by drones as well. We don't know where Iranians but might be behind it. If I was sitting at home, if I were a civilian in Tehran, how would I know who was in charge? Am I getting text messages on my phone telling me to do this or that? What are the actual signs of who's in control?

13:00After Khamenei was killed, the Iranian regime formed a, as they call it, temporary leadership council. Now, there are three members on that team. One is the Iranian president, Masoud Pazeshkian. The other one is the head of the the Iranian judiciary, Ejei. And there is this, unknown to many Iranians, an Ayatollah, a new face that not many Iranians know him. So he was under this assembly of experts, the body that chooses the next leader. But he's unknown to many Iranians. Is he going to be the next Iranian leader? And they kept him in the dark because they wanted Israel not to assassinate him. We don't know that yet.

13:39But he is one of the three people. So they're saying that don't worry about it. We are taking care of the leadership responsibility. But apart from that, there is an assembly in Iran called the Assembly of Experts that they're going to choose the next leader. However, in Iran, there were rumors for years and years that Mojtaba, one of the four sons of Ayatollah Khamenei, is the assumed successor. However, we don't know if he's alive or not. They're not just, you know, announcing it. We don't know that yet. An hour ago, Israelis said that they have targeted Iran's Supreme National Security Council headquarters, which is responsible for military operations inside Iran, political decisions and all that.

14:22Right next to the presidential palace. Was the president there? Was he not? We don't know. Was the head of the National Security Council there, Ali Larijani, one of the most powerful people in Iran? Was he there or not? And also the building for Assembly of Experts. So all these major decision-making bodies have been taken out. We don't know how many of the political decision-makers, if they were killed or not killed. However, during the 12-day war, according to Iranian president, they managed to target one of the meetings where the head of the judiciary, parliament speaker, and the president were there.

14:55They say they were lucky that they survived that attack. If it happens again this time, who is going to run the country?

15:35Transcription by CastingWords Just another billionaire. Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service. Listen now or search for Good Bad Billionaire wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

15:48Hi there, I'm Asma Khaled. And I'm Tristan Redmond. And together we're the hosts of the Global Story podcast from the BBC. For those of you all who might be new to our show, we here at the Global Story dive deep every weekday on one big story at the intersection of where the world and America meet. And you can now watch the global story on the iHeart app. Catch every brand new episode every weekday. Just tap into iHeart to start watching. And we hope you enjoy the show.

16:21Well, I want to ask you about this Ayatollah that you mentioned that has appeared as if from nowhere. I mean, this is quite intriguing. What more can you say about this person? What's their name? What do we know about them, if anything? We don't know much about him. So I know his name is Ali Reza Arafi, and he's an Ayatollah, which it means that he has some level of religious education. What is his background? Where he comes from? We don't know much about him, but he is there. But like I said, if the political figures are also killed, then will that lead to the overthrowing of the regime or not necessarily?

17:00Because right now, like I told you, The fact that the military Iranian army is still functioning has surprised many people. What some analysts believe that is that they're operating in a mosaic style. What does that mean? So Iranian foreign minister in an interview said yesterday that he tried to explain saying that some of these units are not even in touch with each other. So they have received their instructions before. They were ready for the war. So they're acting separately. They're acting separately and they're not in touch with each other. I think, I assume, because of the security concerns, they are totally in the dark.

17:35They're probably not using communication skills not to be targeted. But this is quite interesting that they managed to survive this far as they are being targeted all the time. Parham, you mentioned this leadership trio. Are they the people actually in charge at this moment? Who is giving the orders? Who's actually running the country at this particular moment? And I ask this in part because President Trump has alluded to the fact that some of the people he might negotiate with are no longer alive. Some of the people they had in mind maybe to take over have also been killed. And so that makes me wonder who is actually doing this.

18:11I think it's a bit early to know that because I can give you an example why. Because during the last time, the 12-day war, something that surprised many people was that after the top military commanders were killed, Mohamed Bogher Qalibov, the Iranian parliament speaker, took the responsibility, was in charge of the Iranian military. And many people were surprised to hear that. Yes, he's a pilot and he comes from the Revolutionary Guard, but his position is the speaker of the parliament. Why would he take responsibility, be in charge of the—I mean, he has war experience and all that. So what I'm trying to say is that it's really difficult to guess.

18:51Usually after that, when they come out and they start speaking about these events, we understand. But it can be the information that comes out later. It can be as surprising to us. So at this moment, is somebody going on television on Iranian state TV or sort of giving a message to the Iranian public? Yeah. So Iranian president, Iranian head of the Iranian judiciary, who usually has a more threatening tone. So they play the good cop, bad cop. Hezashkian is this, you know, more, you know, in favor of dialogue with people and tolerance. At least that's what he shows. But Eze is a person who's more threatening, menacing and saying that if you come out on the street and if you protest, we're going to treat you like you're a CIA and Mossad spy because we're in a war with the West.

19:35Is it possible to know, and I'm not suggesting that anyone is taking opinion polls right now, clearly not. But is it possible to have any kind of sense, even in broad brushstrokes, of how much support the government still retains and how many people are opposed to it and would like to see it go altogether? It's very difficult to assess that because so what we know is that the majority of Iranians are unhappy with this establishment. That's what we know. But what percentage of Iranians support this regime is really difficult to assess. Because, for example, when there is an event such as the anniversary of the Islamic Republic, the revolution, they show videos that there are many people on the street.

20:17But we also know that they force some people to take part in those events. For example, soldiers, for example, those who work in governmental organizations. So it's really difficult to assess whether if, for example, let's say, I don't know, hundreds of thousands took part in an event like that. Do they all support the Iranian regime? and are those videos all reflect the reality of the number of the people who take part in there? It's really difficult to assess that. How much support is there for the idea of potentially Reza Pahlavi, the former Shah's son, returning? Is there enthusiasm around this figure or is there only enthusiasm for him outside of Iran?

20:57No, there is enthusiasm for him inside the country. That's a fact. But how big it is, I don't know that. But what I can tell you, there is a huge difference. What happened during the protest in Woman Life Freedom back in 2022, people were just chanting that Woman Life Freedom or Death to the Dictator. Yes, there were some people, you know, chanting in favor of Pah Levy, but that was so minimal that it was almost insignificant. And from that three years ago to their last round of protests where people chanting his name in so many cities, small towns. And when I saw the small towns, some of them, I'm an Iranian.

21:36I had to Google their names to find out where they are. And it was as if the entire town is on the street. I mean, the population of the town is 100 ,000 people. And when you looked at the videos, it was as if literally the entire town is on the street. And many of them were chanting his name. And it was not only in the Western Iran, it was in North, in South, in West, in East. Am I saying that everyone in Iran is in favor of Pahlavi? Of course not. Of course not. There are many, he has got many critics. He, there are many people who believe that he's going to restore a monarchy and not necessarily like the one that you have in the UK.

22:14But his supporters, they say that, no, it's going to be a constitutional monarchy. And this is what he says himself. But the fact is that he has managed to garner way more support in the past three years. That has surprised many analysts. We've heard President Trump allude to the fact this week that this bombing campaign could go on for at least a month. This could become a protracted long war. And while you say some in Iran are glad that the supreme leader is gone, what does a long war mean for Iran? That's what I meant when I at the beginning I said that sentiments and feelings are fluid. and they're not fixed.

22:52So even those Iranians who are happy that the Ayatollah is gone, it depends how this war is going to pan out. If there's chaos in the country and if there's insecurity in the country, those feelings might change, you know. So I remember back when Iraq was invaded, many people were welcoming American soldiers. However, things changed, you know, after that. So it depends what happens right after this, because many Iranians right now, especially those who favor the return of the Pahlavi dynasty and or Pahlavi himself, the son of the late Shah who now lives in exile in the United States. If he wants to come back, how would they do that?

23:30Because unlike the Iraq war, U.S. does not have boots on the ground, at least for now. So without boots on the ground and only with aerial campaign, how is Reza Pahlavi going to return? He should be secured to even get to somewhere in Tehran. The main question is, is it possible to overthrow a regime that they're, you know, acting separately from one another, shooting missiles here and there in the entire region so that this regime collapses without boots underground? And will they give up, lay arms, as Trump has asked them, just by an aerial campaign? Even let's say that they lose the ability to send missiles, that you obliterate all of that.