The dark side of reality TV

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Hi there, I'm Asma Khalid. And I'm Tristan Redmond. And together we're the hosts of the Global Story podcast from the BBC. For those of you who might be new to our show, we here at the Global Story dive deep every weekday on one big story at the intersection of where the world and America meet. And you can now watch the Global Story on the iHeart app. Catch every brand new episode every weekday. Just tap into iHeart to start watching. and we hope you enjoy the show.

0:37We have a brilliant episode for you today that showcases some important BBC investigative journalism, but I need to give you a heads up that it contains graphic descriptions of alleged sexual offences and misconduct and it includes descriptions which some listeners might find distressing. There's also a mention of suicide, so please take care while listening. The reality TV boom is more than 25 years old at this point. Even if you tuned out these shows a while ago, you're probably aware of some of the scandals that have dogged the industry. Big beasts like America's Next Top Model or Love Island have all been at the centre of controversies.

1:22Since the big shows from the early days, reality TV has atomised. There are dozens, maybe even hundreds of shows chasing increasingly extreme formats. Now the BBC has a major investigation uncovering serious allegations of abuse on Married at First Sight UK, a format that's a huge hit around the world. Whether you watch shows like this or not, whether you're in the UK or the US or elsewhere, could a scandal like this be the one that finally provokes change in the industry? From the BBC, I'm Tristan Redmond in London. Today on The Global Story, the dark side of reality TV.

2:12It all began with a meeting actually in the BBC's London headquarters. A woman who had been a bridesmaid on Married at First Sight UK came in to raise some concerns about what she said was alleged sexual misconduct and welfare standards on the production. And that was something that troubled us and we felt that we wanted to know more. So that is why we started investigating that show in particular. Norn Angie is a BBC culture correspondent, and she's the reporter behind this investigation, which is also a documentary for the BBC's investigative TV show Panorama. I started by asking her what it was like working on it.

2:51Over more than a year, we met the three women who would end up becoming the main contributors in our documentary, and all three of them gave detailed and traumatic accounts of their time on MAFs UK. MAFs being the abbreviation of Married at First Sight. Exactly. That's what fans know it as MAFs. So MAFs UK, Married at First Sight UK. And for us, it felt quite shocking that there were allegations of such seriousness that could be made about what was going on behind the scenes of such a big TV show. And part of what happened in the next few months was getting the trust of these women, obviously meeting up with them and hearing their stories because they were very serious allegations and it rightly took time for them to feel comfortable to share them with us.

3:39And I should say this was also a real team effort that was very much involved the editor of Panorama, Karen Whiteman, the exec producer, Tom Stone, and a whole team around us, including legal support as well, which was absolutely invaluable. And all of us spent time corroborating the allegations, verifying them, including doing things like going through mobile phone histories, speaking to other cast members, speaking to friends and family, because that sort of thing is absolutely essential before you put any allegations on it. Well, the stories that these women have told you are disturbing, they're arresting, and they pose all sorts of questions about the kind of reality TV industrial complex, which applies to all sorts of countries all over the world.

4:26And we're going to get into those stories in a second. But before we do that, could you just lay out for us exactly what the premise of Married at First Sight is for those who don't know? So Married at First Sight UK, as we said, is known as MAFs. It sees single people agree to, quote unquote, marry total strangers after meeting for the first time at their mock weddings. Now, the marriages themselves are not legally binding. But what viewers see is these couples going on these honeymoons before moving in together and navigating their relationships, all the while they're being filmed almost every day.

5:02And there's also these weekly dinner parties and commitment ceremonies where the couples decide whether they're going to stay or leave. And all of it's overseen by a number of experts who are sort of giving them advice on how to steer their relationships. Now, for Channel 4, where Mass UK goes out, it is one of their biggest shows. It gets often more than 3 million viewers, and it does particularly well with young audiences. Do you have any sense of how many people watch this format around the world? Well, it is a global format. There's Mass Australia, for example, Mass USA. It is a global franchise.

5:38All of them are managed by different production companies, we should say. The UK one is overseen by CPL Productions. It is popular. And I think the Australian one is also shown in the UK, for example, and is very popular here as well. Can you win anything on this show? Like what's the motivation for taking part? Good question. And actually we try and avoid the word contestants when speaking about the people on this show because they're not really competing for anything, unless I suppose they're competing to find love. But even that's not really a competition. They're going on it. I mean, the people we spoke to said that they were going on genuinely to find love.

6:13They wanted to find a partner. Some of them said they'd been single for some time, wanted to try and see if the dating apps weren't working for them. Maybe this was a new way of trying to find someone. Others, I think, have been a bit more open about perhaps they also wanted to get a bit of social media fame and exposure. And I think those two things can coincide. So I think people go on for a range of reasons. And I think sometimes they do end up finding some level of social media fame afterwards as well. So in this documentary that you've made, Noor, you speak with three women. Let's hear about their experiences.

6:49The first woman you spoke to is called Shona. What did she tell you? Yeah, that's right. So the three women that we spoke to were all making allegations about the men that they were partnered with. And they all said that they were speaking to the BBC because they felt that they should have been better protected. So Shona Manderson, she appears on the 2023 series of Maths UK. I thought, why not try something different? Why not? Let's go on maths. She was matched with Bradley Skelly, who was at the time a meditation teacher. The first kiss of our newly joined couple, Shona and Brad. And at the start, things went well.

7:26Our first kiss was magical. I honestly thought he was at the beginning some kind of rock star you see them getting married quote unquote they meet at the altar they head off on a honeymoon and in those initial phases of the relationship you can see that there is a chemistry and a connection at least that's as a viewer you're witness to that and then they return to London and they share a flat as part of the programme's format And the couple started having consensual sex, she says. And in the filmed discussions that we as viewers see with the show's experts, Bradley, her partner, was very open that he wanted to do things that pushed her boundaries.

8:11Although he also acknowledged there were things that he understood she wouldn't do. And they had agreed to use the withdrawal method of contraception. That's according to Shona. But she told us that on one occasion, she and Bradley, her on-screen husband, were having consensual sex, but then he ejaculated inside her without asking her permission. In bed, we were being intimate, consensual, completely consensual, and we were having sex. And a boundary was crossed completely. We had agreed that we were pulling out. I was shocked. I was confused. We said that we weren't doing that. Okay, so what happened after that incident?

9:01Well, Shona didn't immediately tell anyone what had happened. But around the same time, the show's experts had begun to pick up on how Bradley was speaking to her. Brad is using words like, I will allow you to and let you. Absolutely. Do you notice that you're using that sort of language? 100%. I feel like that's what I want to do. Do you know, I want to allow her to have the space. No, but you don't need to allow her to do anything. No, no, of course not. They called him out on screen in front of the show's other couples. We're calling this out because these are the kind of patterns that can become dangerous.

9:37It sounds like, Brad, that you're quite open to taking on that feedback. Shona says that she later went to get a morning after pill and was accompanied by a welfare producer because we should say that shows like this, like Married at First Sight, they do have a welfare team and their job is to look after the cast members. Now, lawyers for CPL, the production company, they say that they spoke to the couple a few days after all of this. And they say that Shona told them what had happened. And they say that Shona later told CPL that she didn't have an issue with it. And the lawyers also said that Bradley Skelly told CPL that he had been wearing a condom Now, lawyers for Mr.

10:20Skelly have subsequently told Panorama that he was not. Now, CPL and Channel 4 decided to remove the couple from the show shortly after the incident. This is not a healthy relationship. And I know you know this. But this is not working. It's just not. There were concerns that the relationship was potentially unhealthy. and Bradley Skelly says that he understood that Shona had consented to him ejaculating inside her that night in a statement that he provided via his lawyers to Panorama. He says that he categorically denies any allegations of sexual misconduct or that he was controlling. He said their relationship was based on mutual consent, care and affection.

11:10What have the production company in Channel 4 said about this incident, this alleged incident? So we put all of this to Channel 4 and to the production company, CPL. And CPL's lawyers say that the company took appropriate measures to safeguard Shona's well-being. Channel 4 said Shona was clear at the time that all sexual contact was consensual. Talking to Panorama on camera, Shona said that she deserved better welfare from CPL. And how is she now? I think, you know, I think she feels that she wanted to tell her story and that she wanted some sense of accountability. And indeed, everyone who spoke to us, that was what they said to us was their main motivation for speaking up.

11:56It was to get some sense of accountability. I think she feels proud of the impact that the investigation has had. And I think she feels pleased to have taken part in it at this point. Okay. You spoke to another woman who didn't want to be shown in the documentary, but spoke to you very powerfully. What did she tell you? Yeah. So this is a woman that we're calling Lizzie because she wants to remain anonymous. My hope was to find someone kind and nice. We left for our honeymoon and that's when the red flag started. And I should say before I get too far into her account that we are withholding some of the details to protect her identity because anyone who makes an allegation of rape is entitled to an anonymity by law.

12:44But during their sort of quote-unquote honeymoon, Lizzie says that her on-screen husband would often lose his temper in private. He would have these like toddler-style tantrums and he would just explode. He would go into this absolute focus anger. He spoke about how he and his ex were violent towards each other. And Lizzie told the show's welfare team about that. Now, lawyers for the show's production company, CPL, told us that when welfare spoke to her on-screen husband, he told them that he'd been the victim of violence, not the perpetrator. And they said that CPL discussed this with Lizzie, who told them that she did not feel at risk.

13:27Now, by then, Lizzie had already started sleeping with her on-screen husband, but she said that the sex soon turned violent. he kept bruising me during sex. I kept saying stop, but he carried on and this would happen every time we'd had sex after this point. If that's not what was happening, then he was just awful. It got to the stage that I was so aware that that was what was going to keep him in a good mood, that it was whatever he wanted kind of thing. At first, she was too scared to tell anyone. She says that he told her that if she told anyone what had happened, that he would get someone to throw acid at her.

14:15And she says that when they were alone, she tried to speak to him about bringing everything up with the on-screen experts, but that he threw a temper tantrum and threatened to leave. And that night, she says that he attacked her. We were in our apartment on the sofa. and he tried to have sex with me and I kept saying no, that I didn't want to do it but he kept saying, you can't say no, you're my wife and just did it anyway. It was penetrative sex. I had fingerprints from where he grabbed me and forced me. I just completely froze with fear. I never thought that anything could scare me that much

15:11And she says the next morning as soon as her on-screen husband had left the apartment she immediately messaged the welfare team I texted welfare and told them how he'd said I can't say no because I'm his wife and how he'd threatened to get someone to throw acid at me. I only didn't tell them about the attack. Welfare came to my room and I showed them the bruises and pretty quickly it was taken further. And she says that she showed them her bruises and told them everything aside from the alleged attack itself. And we should say one of the members of the welfare team took photos of the bruises, which Panorama has seen.

15:58I mean, this story is really, really upsetting. What have the producers said about it? Well, lawyers for the production company CPL said that the bruises were described to the welfare team by Lizzie as being the result of rough but consensual sex. They say Lizzie did not tell CPL about her partner having told her that she can't say no to him and that the acid-throwing remark had been reported as a passing comment, not as a threat. and their lawyers also say that CPL acted immediately once Lizzie said that she felt unsafe. Now before the series finished airing Lizzie messaged a welfare producer and in that message she said that she had been sexually assaulted.

16:45Now in response to that CPL's lawyers have told Panorama that CPL followed this up with Lizzie and they took it to be a reference to the rough but consensual sex that had been previously reported to them. And then after the show went out, Lizzie spoke to the Maths UK psychiatrist and she told him that she had been raped. I was speaking to him quite regularly and then it got to the point that I was so low. And it was the kind of then that I realised that I had to start being honest with what had happened. that's when I started telling people about the attack. The first person I told was the psychiatrist and he then told people in welfare.

17:35Now we should say lawyers for Lizzie's on-screen husband have said that he denies rape and he has said that all sexual contact was entirely consensual. He also denies being violent towards her or making violent threats towards her, they said. Have Channel 4 posted an official response to Lizzie's story? Yes, well, Channel 4 told us that they were only made aware of the rape allegation after the series had been broadcast, and they say it would be wrong to assess contemporaneous welfare and editorial decision-making by Channel 4 and CPL based on knowledge that they did not have at the time. And Channel 4 also said that all of the women who have spoken to Panorama gave repeated assurances that they felt safe, happy, and wanted to continue in the process.

18:26And how is Lizzie now? Well, Lizzie, much like Shona, who we've spoken about already, wanted to speak up to us because she wanted accountability. And I think that she has been pleased to see the impact that this investigation has had. Noor, the women that you've spoken to, it looks like they've been put in very difficult situations by the very format of the show that they're participating in. Sharing a bed with men they've just met, being questioned live on camera about whether or not they're having sex with each other. Is there something about the actual format of these shows that's a risk, potentially?

19:09Well, I think it's a good question. It's something that we've heard a lot about in recent days since this investigation broke. And there's been a lot of discussion around whether the show's format itself, as you say, potentially encourages unsafe situations.

19:27You've got people who are complete strangers who are then expected to share a bed and a life straight after meeting. And critics have argued that by its very nature, that does create inherent risk. Now, CPL, the production company, has said that its welfare processes are gold standard. Channel 4 has said that it has robust systems in place. But if former participants are saying that those protections have failed them, then I think it does raise the question whether any amount of safeguarding could be enough in a programme of this kind.

20:17Hi there, I'm Asma Khaled. And I'm Tristan Redmond. And together we're the hosts of the Global Story podcast from the BBC. For those of you who might be new to our show, we here at the Global Story dive deep every weekday on one big story at the intersection of where the world and America meet. And you can now watch the Global Story on the iHeart app. Catch every brand new episode every weekday. Just tap into iHeart to start watching. And we hope you enjoy the show.

20:49Have any of these women pressed charges against their on-screen partners? None of the women that we've spoken to have reported the allegations to the police. One of them told us she didn't think anything would happen. And all of them said to us that they were speaking to us now because this was their way of calling for accountability. Well, Noor, you've done an extremely thorough and diligent piece of journalism in this investigation. and you've taken everything that you found to CPL the producers and to Channel 4. When you went to the producers, what was that process like? How did they react to all of this?

21:27Yeah, well, with any story like this, it involves what's known as a right of reply process. So in early April, we first submitted the allegations that we'd heard to Channel 4 and to CPL. And immediately, there was strong pushback. we were told that CPL were able to provide contemporaneous notes of the utmost accuracy, which proved that appropriate decisions had been made. We went back to our sources. We were checking and cross-referencing everything that we had heard. One of the legal firms that was representing one of the men against whom the allegations were being made, because of course, we also put the allegations to the men.

22:07One of them also told us that its fees were being paid for by CPL. And that was a sign that support was being offered to the men while the women felt unsupported. Now, Channel 4, for its part, has called the allegations that the BBC presented to them wholly uncorroborated and disputed. But later, we should say there was a change in tone. After the story went out, Channel 4's chief executive, Priya Dogra, initially she expressed sympathy, but declined to apologize. And then later, a few days later, she said that she was deeply sorry and that she had found the women's accounts very troubling to watch on Panorama.

22:47Is there anything that Channel 4 are proposing to do in response to all of this? Well, Channel 4 has now removed all episodes of Maths UK from its streaming services, as well as from its social channels. And it has also commissioned an external review of contributor welfare on the show. And it says that that review now needs to run its course. No decision has been made yet on whether to air the new series. That's already been filmed. It's not yet been broadcast. And Channel 4 has said no decision has been made yet on that. Well, in the last few days, there have been some more updates. You've been hearing from producers working for CPL who make the show.

23:27What have they been telling you? Yeah, that's right. Well, actually, we were trying to get hold of some former workers on the show ahead of the panorama. But after the program went out, a number of former workers came forward directly to us. And we spoke to five former workers who painted a picture of a show that has an unhealthy expectation around sex. One of the workers who was there for several years and was on set for much of it said that staff were taking bets on which couple would sleep together first. And she said that the bets weren't for money, but it was clear that it was all a joke to them.

24:02And we also heard that producers manufactured confrontation between cast members to make good TV. Now, lawyers for CPL, the production company, say that contributors are not pressured in any way and that CPL doesn't recognize that allegation around bets. They also say that CPL refutes any suggestion that it prioritizes entertainment over the welfare of its contributors. And Channel 4, as we've said, has commissioned this review of contributor welfare on Mass UK. And I think it's important to point out here that there are a number of former cast and crew who have been more positive about their experiences on the program.

24:40What I think this testimony from former workers does do is give some wider context around those allegations that we revealed on Panorama and how they may have arisen in the first place. It feels like there's a bit of a moment right now around reality TV. There have been other scandals this year alone. So in February this year, there was a documentary series about alleged mistreatment of contestants on the set of America's Next Top Model. Oh my God, I think we've built a monster. It's a TV show to you guys, but this is my life. Then a month later, the latest season of the American show, The Bachelorette was cancelled, perhaps indefinitely.

25:23Okay, so have you heard about this? A bombshell on The Bachelorette from Disney that has more to do with the real-life drama that's happening outside of that reality TV show. ABC has cancelled it, the new season. Because of some allegations surrounding one of the contestants, there have been so many allegations over the years around reality TV that it makes you wonder whether audiences are being put off. Can this format of show survive? Well, I think it remains to be seen how much this might impact those audiences, the people, as you say, who watch and love reality TV shows and whether this might put them off from watching.

26:02And I think we should also say there have been attempts to reform reality TV in light of various scandals and controversies. So for example, after two former contestants from the show Love Island took their own lives, the regulator Ofcom in the UK introduced new rules to try and protect contributors. But what we're seeing is that the problems, at least on the UK TV shows, keep coming. What is clear from all of this is that many reality TV shows thrive on conflict and drama. But some of those who've taken part in Married at First Sight UK, they say it shouldn't have come at their expense.

26:48Well, Noor, thank you so much for joining us. We know you're one of the most sought-after people in journalism right now, so we're so pleased you stopped by to talk to us. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

27:05That was the BBC's culture correspondent, Noor Nanji. Our email is always theglobalstory at bbc.com. Thanks to our listener, Valentina, for your touching message. We're so happy that you're enjoying the show, Valentina, and very interested to hear that you're keen for a Brexit episode. In the UK, it's a topic that some people would choose maybe to never hear about again. But your message is a good prompt because it's shortly the 10-year anniversary of the referendum. So maybe we should take another look. Thanks and stay in touch, Valentina. Today's episode was produced by Viv Jones, Aaron Keller and James Shield.