Will Trump take control of Greenland?

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0:53It went away for a bit, but this week Greenland was very much back on Donald J. Trump's agenda. We need Greenland from the standpoint of national security.

1:06Adrienne Murray:President Trump's desire to acquire Greenland is not new. But ever since the U.S. took major military action in Venezuela last weekend, it has become clear to the world that Trump is willing to take extraordinary measures to get what he wants in his approach to foreign policy, even if that could mean violating international law. After Venezuela, to leaders around the world, Trump's escalating rhetoric on Greenland seems like something to take pretty seriously. From the BBC, I'm Tristan Redman in London. And I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. And today on The Global Story, why does President Trump want Greenland?

1:48Adrienne Murray:And what are the consequences for the rest of the world if he gets his wish?

2:00So today we're talking to Adrienne Murray. She's a reporter covering Denmark, Greenland and the Nordic regions for the BBC. So she's been following this story very closely. And since Greenland is not a place that many of us will get the chance to visit, we kick things off by asking her what Greenland is actually like. Greenland is a vast island. It's the world's largest, 2 million kilometres in size and covered by this enormous ice cap. What's remarkable for that vast size as well, it's got a really small population. Only 57 ,000 people live there and the vast majority are Inuit or native Greenlanders.

2:39And Greenland itself, it's an autonomous territory that's part of the wider kingdom of Denmark. It's largely self-governed, so as an parliament and flag and presides over a lot of its own policies, except for some powers like foreign policy and defense, that they still rest with Copenhagen.

2:56Adrienne Murray:Nonetheless, though, if you live in Greenland, you are technically still part of Denmark. You're a Danish citizen as well. Yes, you're a Danish passport holder. Adrienne, here in Washington, D.C., the story of the Trump administration's interest in taking over Greenland has been rumbling for quite some time. But it wasn't necessarily capturing the leading headlines, I will say, over the last several months until in the last several days, where I think we've seen a very deliberate renewed push from the White House to take over the territory. A lot has happened in the last few days. So can you just briefly catch us up on the major news?

3:33Adrienne Murray:Yeah, I mean, if you thought things had got quiet over the last few months, I mean, that's certainly not proving to be the case. It's an extraordinary situation. So Sunday evening, aboard Air Force One, reporters asked President Trump about his intentions towards Greenland. So do you expect to take an action against Greenland? Well, I don't want to talk about Greenland. Let's talk about Venezuela, Russia. A day earlier, there'd been that operation in Venezuela where they had captured Maduro, they'd ousted him. And so they asked his intentions on Greenland. I will say this about Greenland. We need Greenland from a national security situation.

4:11He reiterated this goal that getting control over or annexing Greenland was a national security priority. It's so strategic. Right now, Greenland is covered with Russian and Chinese ships all over the place. We need Greenland. He said, we need Greenland. And then there was this post on Sunday by Katie Miller. She's a podcast host in the United States, as you know. And notably the wife of Stephen Miller, top advisor to President Trump. Exactly. And that's the thing. It's her proximity to the White House that actually rattled everybody. So she put this post out. There was an image of Greenland with an American flag and just with a single word, soon.

4:59And obviously, off the back of what's happened in Venezuela, that's caused a lot of upset. I mean, she may just have been trolling. We don't know, but it was certainly provocative. So that prompted a statement from the Danish prime minister. She put out some very strong words saying, you know, the US has no right to annex any of these three territories. Greenland's prime minister as well. He said, that's enough now. The US dropped these fantasies of annexation. And even though there were these rebuffs, Trump still doubled down. And I think that's sort of what's rattled officials in Denmark and Greenland.

5:36Then we saw, again, you know, Medif Richardson spoke to reporters, and she really gave quite a serious warning. She said she takes seriously, very seriously, the American president, that he wants Greenland. And she gave her most stark warning yet.

5:59She said, if the U.S. chooses to attack another NATO country militarily, everything stops, including NATO, and thus the security since World War II would be under threat.

6:15Adrienne Murray:In that context, Adrian, of everything that's going on, we saw Stephen Miller, this top advisor deputy chief of staff, here at the White House go on CNN and essentially say that nobody was going to fight the U.S. over Greenland. Nobody's going to fight the United States militarily over the future of Greenland. Yeah, exactly. And that's quite provocative. It kind of hinted that the U.S. thinks they can just seize Greenland or maybe the U.S. has another plan. But he's very squarely put that he believes, I mean, in an ideological way that Greenland really should belong to the U.S. It's been the formal position of the U.S.

6:53government since the beginning of this administration, frankly, going back into the previous Trump administration, that Greenland should be part of the United States. He even questioned why Denmark has ownership over Greenland. The real question is, by what right does Denmark assert control over Greenland? What is the basis of their territorial claim? And then, of course, you know, there's been this wider discussion that's been heating up since the weekend. It's about is Venezuela a wake-up call for Denmark and for Greenland too?

7:26Adrienne Murray:And, you know, that's pretty uncharted water. OK, so this interest in Greenland that we hear from President Trump is not new. Back in 2019, when he was first in the White House, he floated the idea of taking Greenland. I remember, because I saw the reporting in the Wall Street Journal, it's by a journalist who I know and trust. And I remember thinking, wow, this byline is very credible, But this sounds like a totally wacky idea, a real estate president who was potentially just interested in eyeing a new property. I mean, it wasn't taken seriously, I will say, in political circles. How was it perceived in Denmark and Greenland at the time?

8:03You know, I think it was pretty much the same way perhaps you felt. It seems like a completely wild idea at the time, and people initially laughed it off. at an official level, Mene Fredricksen. She was still prime minister back in 2019. And she said that the idea of buying or selling green was absurd. But Trump did not take that well. He called her statement nasty.

8:32Adrienne Murray:Because she wasn't willing to engage on a property sale. And he went so far as to that month, there was supposed to be a formal state visit from the U.S. to Denmark, and he called it off. At that time, Adrian, in 2019, what struck you about the explanation or the justification for why President Trump felt the United States ought to have Greenland? Well, it's interesting, isn't it? Because, you know, he's a dealmaker. And I think he thought it was fair game because there have been attempts to purchase Greenland in the past. Notably, 1946, President Harry Truman, he offered$100 million at the time for it.

9:14Which is a huge amount of money, right, in 1946. Absolutely. And there have been other proposals going further back. But what did happen post-World War II, post-1946, is that the US did gain a permanent presence on Greenland. And already back then, Greenland was of security interest to the US. You know, World War II, Denmark had been occupied by Germany. So the US went into Greenland to stop the Nazis potentially getting hold of it. And they established a lot of military bases during World War II. And then, you know, they never really left. In the 1950s, there was a deal struck. So there was a deal on the table.

9:52There was an agreement that allows the US to continue using bases and to have a military presence. Now, over the decades since the Cold War, there's been this idea that there was peace in the Arctic and that it was a sort of low tension area. So those bases have been wound down and now there's just one left. But the US has had a permanent presence in Greenland since World War II. When Donald Trump left the White House in the beginning of 2021, he did so without having achieved his aim of annexing Greenland. And then that issue wasn't on the dance card under the Biden presidency. But boy, it kind of came roaring back, didn't it?

10:33as soon as Trump or even before Trump was re-inaugurated. Can you just walk us through everything that has happened in the last year, please? Because there has been a lot. Those headlines were quickly stirred up even before he took office. He'd already sort of refused to rule out this idea of taking Greenland by force. And I think probably one of the most enduring images that many people have seen will be that Trump-branded private jets landing on the runway in Newcastle exactly this time last year, actually. Donald Jr., he made this private visit to Greenland. Just really excited to be here. Awesome country.

11:15The scenery coming in was just spectacular. Just very excited to be here. Interestingly, he was accompanied back then by Charlie Cook and also another MAGA figure, Sir Joe Gore, who's now the US ambassador to India. Do you have a message from your father? He says hello. OK, to who? We were talking to him yesterday, so he says hello to everyone in Greenland. They were literally on the ground for about four hours, but it caused quite a stir. They were handing out MAGA caps and inviting locals to lunch, and then they came away with a lot of spin afterwards that Greenlanders were kind of welcoming in the US with open arms, which didn't really ring true.

11:52So in early March, the president gave an address to Congress. And I also have a message tonight for the incredible people of Greenland. we strongly support your right to determine your own future and there again he stated the u.s need to have greenland and if you choose we welcome you into the united states of america we need greenland for national security and even international security and we're working with everybody involved to try and get it but we need it really for international world security he said these words, we're going to get it one way or another. And I think we're going to get it one way or the other, we're going to get it.

12:35And the room, all these top level American officials, they burst into laughter. And I was told very directly that this was found to be quite hurtful in Greenland because they were being laughed at. This idea of taking control of their country is actually very, very serious and was worrying some people. Well, Adrian, I was in Nuuk, the capital of Greenland, at the same time as J.D. Vance was visiting with Usher Vance. And I remember very vividly, you know, the idea was that Usher Vance was, in particular, was going to go and visit this dog sled race in central Greenland. And this dog sled race is a really big deal on the Greenlandic calendar.

13:19It's, you know, a bit like kind of Wimbledon and the Super Bowl wrapped into one. But Usher Vance decided not to go late on. And there was a lot of speculation as to why this was. There was speculation, for example, that, you know, they might not be well received, there might be a scene, and they didn't want that to happen. But nonetheless, J.D. Vance's visit ruffled some feathers, didn't it? Yeah, it's interesting. I think the whole idea of sending Usher Vance initially was, it was this kind of attempt to win hearts and minds. But she was also due to be accompanied by White House officials, members of the cabinet, and there'd been no formal invite from Denmark or Greenland.

13:58Because of this rhetoric about Greenland, protests had been planned in Sushmuts where they were going to hold a dog race and also a nuke where people planned to turn their back on Usher and other American officials as they were passing. So the optics would have looked bad. And that was why they ditched the itinerary last minute. And, you know, we know they were going because this Hercules came into nuke and they unloaded all these kind of, you know, heavy duty official vehicles with bulletproof glass. And then those were all sort of packed up again. And yes, I think to save face, then the vice president joined the trip and it was then an even bigger show.

14:38Good Lord, sit down and eat. Sit down and eat. Don't let the vice president stop you guys from getting your show here. How are we doing? Obviously, he gave that speech, you know, lambasting Denmark. Denmark has not kept pace in devoting the resources necessary to keep this base, to keep our troops, and in my view, to keep the people of Greenland safe from a lot of very aggressive incursions from Russia, from China and from other nations. And that was, you know, really, really quite a moment. You know, I think that caused deep offence. It struck me, though, that Greenlanders didn't speak with one voice on this issue.

15:12There is a spectrum of thoughts on this. You know, there are those who say, we want the status quo. We want to stay part of Denmark. We do not want to be part of the United States. But there is also, we want independence from Denmark, but we don't want to be part of the United States. And then there are some Greenlanders who believe that Greenland could benefit from a stronger trade relationship with the United States, if not outright annexation. So I was struck by the diversity of opinion on this. Of course. I think the number of people that would like to join America and be American citizens, I think, is very small.

15:46I think you could probably count them on your hand. And at least two thirds of Greenlandic people would like independence from Denmark. So that is something that the majority wants and that's well known. But there have also been polls showing that the vast majority of people do not want to be American.

16:09There was a sort of a mantra at the time, we don't want to be Danes, we don't want to be Americans, we are Greenlanders. And, you know, it's this colonial legacy. You know, if they shake off being part of Denmark, why would they want to be another colony of another country? People see Alaska, Canada, you know, what has happened to indigenous populations there, and that is also a talking point when they look at the US.

16:42Adrienne Murray:So after this visit by the vice president and the second lady, I will say the focus on Greenland wasn't necessarily making major headlines here in the U.S. So where did the story go, Adrienne, from there in the spring to get us to what we have witnessed now in the last week? Yeah, it did disappear from the headlines, but I think this was still sort of simmering underneath. the Wall Street Journal. They reported that allegedly Washington spy agencies had been instructed to focus efforts on the independent movement. Then there was this report at the end of the summer of COVID influence activities in Greenland that came from the Danish media.

17:27And then again, just before Christmas, sparks flew again when Trump delivered this big surprise announcing the appointment of a special envoy to Greenland. And that special envoy was this Louisiana governor, Jeff Landry, who'd been chosen for the rule. He's a complete unknown when it comes to international politics. No diplomatic experience, but he's a staunch Trump supporter and, you know, a MAGA figure. Well, Adrian, can we unpack with you, please, the specific motivations or potential motivations that the United States might have for wanting to annex Greenland? Because there are a few of them.

18:07So national security would be the big one. We hear that a lot. Donald Trump's been talking about it again in the last few days. He says that Greenland is a crucial part of the national security puzzle for the United States. Explain that to us. Yeah, I mean, there have been legitimate concerns about the security in the Arctic region. because there's been this sense that there's been a growing presence from Russia. And to understand Greenland's role in this, its strategic importance, I think you have to look at the geography. And for anyone who's ever flown transatlantic, you might have found yourself flying from Europe to the United States and you may well have actually flown over Greenland.

18:49So if you take the globe and you look down directly from the North Pole, down from the Arctic, there is Greenland occupying this space directly between Russia and the United States. And that's why the United States maintains this military base in the far north, because it's also got missile detection systems there, because that is the shortest route between Russia and America. I mean, there are legitimate security concerns, but this idea that, you know, taking land would solve that doesn't seem to ring through. I think it's baffled. This idea about national security actually baffled Copenhagen and Nuke, this complaint over security, because Denmark has responded, it's invested billions.

19:32And furthermore, I mentioned that defense agreement earlier that the United States already has. If national security is really the main priority, the US could boost its military presence and have more bases if it wanted to without making a land grab. And since the end of the Cold War, But the U.S. has actually been scaling back its bases. At one point there were 17 and now there's just one. So if the stated goal of national security is not necessarily the most realistic explanation you're saying, Idrin, based on your reporting, how much do minerals factor into this?

20:11Adrienne Murray:I know we hear a lot from the administration about this focus on minerals. I know that Greenland is a very resource rich region. Most recently, Trump has said that minerals and rare earths aren't his main motive. He's said that we have plenty of resources at home. But, I mean, it is a fact that Greenland has some huge rare earth deposits, you know, at least three of the world's 10 biggest. And in addition to that, it's endowed with, you know, a host of other critical minerals that factor very highly on the EU and US's lists for being vitally important, you know, for using green technologies, high-tech goods, and also for military equipment.

20:47But there's not a really good business case for doing so. You know, Greenland's remotes, there's lack of infrastructure, operating costs very high. So while Trump's in the circle sort of referenced Greenland's rich resources, it would seem that, you know, that's going to be a very, very long call for Greenland to develop those.

21:08Adrienne Murray:So, Adrian, if your reporting suggests that the national security risks are not so high that they can't be dealt with without a takeover of Greenland, and the minerals aren't necessarily the primary concern, perhaps either, then what do you hear as the main potential motivation for why President Trump might want to take over Greenland? Yeah, well, some of the reporting here is that could there be a third reason? Could this be more about Trump's legacy? I mean, this is still speculation broadly, but, you know, could he be looking to expand U.S. territory to make America even greater? in which case that wouldn't give many options really for Denmark to reason or appease with him and as we saw with this new US national strategy this revival of the Monroe doctrine that wants to ensure that dominance over the western hemisphere stays in place and if you look at the geography Greenland is seen as being part of North America and part of the western hemisphere And if you listen to Stephen Miller the other night, he was very, very clear that Greenland should belong to the US.

22:23And this feels like it runs deeper, like it's almost part of an ideology perhaps as well. Adrian, what do you think happens next? It's a very difficult question to answer. Trump does see himself as a dealmaker. But I mean, the idea of buying Greenland, I think, is pretty much a non-starter because it's not Denmark's sell. It's enshrined in law already that the Greenlandic people have the right to choose. If they do choose to go for independence, there's also a framework that's already in place. And while ultimately the majority of Greenlanders do want independence, Trump's hardest task is still going to be winning over the Greenlanders.

23:11And, you know, opinion polls do say that citizens are overwhelmingly against the idea of joining the US. So I think that is going to be uphill. And I think this question of how far Trump would be willing to go, we just don't know, do we? It's been absolutely fascinating talking this through with you. Thank you so much, Adrienne.

23:33Adrienne Murray:Adrienne, thank you so much. We're really grateful. Thank you. Thanks for having me. That was Adrienne Murray. And, you know, Tristan, I will say it does appear that Europe is increasingly on high alert about some of these threats to take Greenland. This week, we saw European leaders issue a joint statement saying Greenland belongs to its people and only Denmark and Greenland can decide on matters concerning the relations. You know, there's clearly a lot of worry, it seems, around a potential Greenland grab. Well, yeah, I would say so. This is not just a thing that's happening between the United States, Denmark and Greenland.