England OUT! The Thomas Tuchel Debate & Why England Failed Again...

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1:12Nicky:up to 1 million points back per calendar year. American Express Business Platinum, there's nothing like it. Terms apply. Learn more at AmericanExpress.com slash business dash platinum. Welcome to the good, the bad and the football Sponsored by Midnight, the betting app that's built different Today's guest folks, 127 Premier League goals Two Premier League golden boots And has reached more finals with England than Thomas Tuchel Jimmy Floyd, Arsall Bank, welcome pal Thank you mate Jimmy, I'm gutted you're on this episode Because I was so excited about you joining us but it's not a good not a good morning pal it's not a good morning no it's obviously not a good moment morning for me as well I've worked with the players with the majority of those players and I wish them all the best and I I watched yesterday and I was an England supporter yesterday and I wanted them to do well and when they scored Why don't we just talk about Holland?

2:22Well So then I will have a go, proper go. But yeah, my girls have been born here. My missus is British. The girls are England supporters. And yeah, it was quite hard to take. We're going to obviously have our own opinions on it. But for you who's been involved behind the scenes at England, watching that game, the main thing, whether you're a manager, a professional player, a fan, that last 25 minutes everybody watching that game was of the same opinion like why is he going why are they sitting back why are they inviting Argentina on when they were there for the taking what were your sort of views on it when you were watching it so after the 1-0 when they are going backwards that is not Tuchel that has nothing to do with Tuchel that is just a mentality of the players thinking, oh, we need to defend now that 1-0 instead of having the same kind of tactics and having the game in their half because that's really what they were doing.

3:30They were keeping the game as much as possible in Argentina's half and they stopped doing that. And now all of a sudden, back to the wall, you have Kane that is now sitting really deep and you can't get out. and then after the substitutions there is where that is Tuchel's decision yeah you know and he then chooses you know what let's defend you know with someone like Harry Kane sorry I've got a lot to get off my chest here lads we'll all talk in a minute but just should I look a little bit earlier then

4:08Nicky:I'm going to go and it's all a matter of time for us girls to pop at your party got to have you anyway the thing is I can't really argue with that the road did you not see they've shut the road down I got through leave a bit earlier I got through you I was on time as well from London from Coburn lads lads go on get off your chest come on come on right I was watching is the players like Kane is there almost like the reliance on him so much and they talk about Bellingham as well in this World Cup for me I'd have taken him off just watching it because he he wasn't being effective he looked like he he was knackered he looked like he was out on his feet a little bit kid he was dropping so deep players like him will Tuchel just refuse to take him off?

4:58Well with him still being on the pitch it looks like it but we don't know that the only thing that I know is the tactical aspect until the goal was really good and everybody that was watching the game and understands the game will say England were in the game. Absolutely right. And the goal comes by somebody going into the space and the ball gets played and they win the second ball and it goes to the right and there is a cross. And it's somebody else what was needed than Bellingham or Kane stepping up and scoring the goal. but then you have to keep that same concept because they will get more desperate and they are going to take chances.

5:53But then on top of that also, I think what England did wrong, every time the ball came to Jordan Pickford, he went long and you can't go long. You have to keep on playing. He was just giving it on back and they were attacking us again. Yeah, that was towards the end, wasn't it? Yeah. No, well, he did that in the game and quite a little bit too much for my liking. If you look at John Stones, he got angry at him because he understood that you have to keep on passing the ball. You have to keep on moving that ball. That's what Spain did really well after 1-0. Okay, Spain, you know, but Spain, they didn't go backwards.

6:36They wanted that ball. They wanted that ball again. That's the big difference between the teams. It was almost, we scored the goal and it was the worst thing we probably could have done. Do you know what I mean? To stay in the game because I think I saw we had 12 % possession after the goal. That's where English players are sadly lacking in control of a football game in the middle of the pitch. Now, you play players who don't really control games of football. Do you know what I mean? The players that we have that control games of football weren't on the football pitch. Cobb-Eminer brilliant at it for Man United he has been whether he can transfer that into international on the highest biggest stage against Argentina I don't know Cole Palmer Phil Foden these are players that control the games of football and we've just mentioned Spain when Spain went 1-0 up they didn't give France a kick of the ball absolutely not we were totally totally the opposite but that's the squad he picked we felt right from the start why every single pundit I've seen everyone has Me and Nicky have said it, you've said it.

7:43The squad was a strange squad to pick. He didn't pick his... Well, when I say he didn't pick his best footballers, what we thought, he thought it was his best footballers, Kobe Mino, Eze, Morgan Rodgers, possibly. Morgan Rodgers, that was his first start last night. He either played Eze, either played Kobe Mino. So I don't really know what you expect from that performance. But then also, if you go to the Spain game, what they did after 1-0, they kept the ball. but Ole Sabal came off another striker came on the wide player came off Williams came on so they kept their pace so they could still go that way and they could still go behind that defense you know and that is where England defended like against Mexico, against Norway with all due respect to those teams they're not as good as Argentina and Argentina could just put the balls in and the crosses were just spot on we beat the teams we should do and then as soon as the game comes it's 50-50 we don't win it what were you thinking like when you're watching the game and we're still 1-0 up and he takes Gordon off and puts Konzer on I was sat there It can go either way though, Paddy, can't it?

9:12You can look back, I think. And this is why we brought Thomas Tuchel to do something a little bit different, I think. Maybe bring his three forwards on, bring Rashford on, bring Eze on, bring that bit of controlling and bring Cobby Mane into it. But he went the other way because it had worked against Mexico. Yeah, but we were fucking 10 men. Yeah, 10 men against a team not like I did either. It's not easy, yeah. It's not easy. it is not easy I think Gordon was getting injured or was getting tired and James had to come off James had to come off because he got cramp or so the question is at that time what do you do you know do you put another defender in or are you going to but he brought two defenders on he brought three defenders on didn't he and still couldn't stop crosses and still couldn't stop the ball going in the net once a cross came in I think you know for me I think

10:11Nicky:this will be dissected for months and months and months the simple thing for me is if he chooses to do what he did that's his prerogative whether we like it or not go back five fine but you have to have an outlet going that way because you can't we've been now in training when you do 10 minutes of defensively attack and it's it's just waves they did it for 34 minutes England against the team with Messi in the team it's impossible to stop so if you're going to do that you need to be able to get it in behind and get up with the pitch and at least kill them for a little bit in their half and then retreat we sat on the back at the edge of our box for 34 minutes I think that's where the control of good midfield players comes into it though like your Spay team like your Rodri like your Pedri like your Ruiz them players they take the ball they take the ball for a minute they don't give them a kiss we don't have and we haven't I'm not saying this Justice Tournament I'm talking about 20, 30 years even when I was playing we never had them players to take a game away from somebody You know what Nicky just said then about that in training it looked like we're like get your bibs on lads we're defending just wave after wave after wave and you need it I don't care and I get what Scully's saying 100 % but we didn't have them players on that pitch so you have to find another way of getting into their half and Jimmy said before the only way to do that is you get it in behind and you push up and squeeze the play which is what I expected more from Thomas Tougal that's why I expected Thomas Tuchel's team now look I spoke to a Chelsea fan he's my big Chelsea fan and he said Thomas Tuchel was almost quite like a pragmatic coach and that surprised me a little bit now when I think of Thomas Tuchel I think of his PSG team I watched them against United in the Covid times they were brilliant they passed the team off the park it was brilliant like a Spain team would do and that's probably I've got that image in my head of Thomas Tuchel and it's probably wrong Jimmy will know more from Thomas' Chelsea days I suppose he was just a little bit more pragmatic and that showed he played at Chelsea he played at three yeah it wasn't great football though was it no but he had there were some patterns there were some really good football patterns that you could see coming back every game but it was not really okay go yeah you know If you look at the final that he won the Champions League final with Chelsea against Man City, they got away a little bit with it, but obviously they'd done the job.

12:46But Man City had the ball for the majority of the game. I must say that I was impressed with Argentina. I thought the first time they just came out for a fight. Everyone was a fight, everyone was cheering, every time they make a tackle. I don't want to start talking about the ref. but some of those challenges in the first half was absolutely ridiculous no they were they were brilliant they were brilliant they were filthy yeah but you knew what they were going to do they wanted to upset Jude because they knew he's got a temper and they did but you know it's an Argentinian team as well and for a player to them like every game they've had in that they just keep going and going and going and that's where you're going you know we talk about summer circle great coaches he was probably outcoached a little bit last night from Scolone what Aldi worked Messi into the game I thought was brilliant because he played Simeone nobody expected he stopped Jed Spence he was driving me mad by the way Simeone his dad was the same he was a fucking mad as well he stopped him from going up and down he put Messi inside because you know he can't half get away with a body in there which he will be and then as soon as he retired he took Simeone off put Messi to that side Messi was just getting the ball crosses great but he was never really going to score Messi but it was always he's delivered they gave him too much space and they brought De Paul and Rodrigo De Paul just to that side just to protect his little mate and then he started putting great balls do you know what it could have been four or five in the end we're quite lucky it was two what about the goalkeeper for the first goal as well oh my god I've never been that impressed with that you don't want to slag a keeper I've never been that impressed with Enzo Fernandes last night but I thought fucking hell I can see why Real Madrid wanted him I don't think he's been brilliant for Chelsea yet but I thought last night he dictated the game exactly what we missed yeah but he comes up with big goals big goals also for Chelsea he comes up with big big moments the one against Egypt the header that is in the last minute of a game I forgot about that And he takes the header so perfectly.

15:02That was a great header. Great header. Glances it to a far post. By where it come from. And yesterday, he had already three shots. Three, four shots that went... I think he's got to do better for the goal. And if you look at his shot, and you have scored goals outside the box, you know, you look at the goalkeeper. My inside foot was quite firm, hard. so I didn't have to I know he fucking rocket no but you look at the goalkeeper where he is do I need to go there or do I go far I think Jordan will be extremely disappointed with that goal because it doesn't go in the side net yeah it doesn't go in the side net and he's almost side he's like guided it into not into the corner back there but if you watch the keeper closely probably we've got an expert when the ball comes across from that side it doesn't move over Jordan Pickford he stays towards his side so it's a massive gap but you could argue if it weren't for Pickford it would have been about 3-0 down because he pulled off some worldies as well did he?

16:09he made yeah he should save that hang on a minute these are just saves you should make that's a good save it's a big miss from the lad the Ledger score which one the one down to his right down to his right I thought he was a brilliant save he's got to save that if it goes in or underneath we'd all be saying fucking actually save it what about the one where he was down to his left I think it was a header on that side he pulled off another good save like they would have been 2-0 up if it weren't for him what do you think

16:40Nicky:about the Bellingham when he's looked at the sky and gone fucking hell it's gone right down the middle for the first goal do you see it? no I didn't see that Bellingham's looked up and gone fuck's sake it's right down the middle now do you know what they played Bellingham really well you know as Jimmy said before do you know he's got a bit of a temper about and they got really stuck in it oh I know I was worried about that because I thought don't rise to it yeah and he did rise to it at the time he was trying to play the bit of an hard man but do you not see when they released Bellingham there were three fucking Argentinian players on him straight three you know what Bellingham needed to do pass the ball also but he needed to do what Messi did in the last ten minutes just come out just come out of it come out of it a little bit and touch the ball there get you know and work yourself he hasn't got a mentality he's got to be involved he's got to be trying to do everything but by you doing that by you doing that you're involved yeah but he won't see that you know what I'm saying and that's probably the fault of English players he just needed to get himself out a little bit more and work a little bit more from there and the wide player coming in you know a little bit that rotation until we get them players who control the game of football take the ball away from teams this is going to happen all the time and like I said I'm not just slugging the players off now because it happened when I was playing I was the same I should have been better at taking the ball as an England player I don't know if Nicky I played 66 times I never really felt in control of a game and I'm talking about when we're playing beating Germany 5-1 away it's a weird feeling with England I don't know what it is you never ever feel in control of games.

18:26Football, whereas United, probably hundreds of games where you feel complete control. This is easy. With England, I don't know what it is. It's like a mental block for midfield, but I don't know what it is. But do you not think, with those substitutions, bringing on three defensive players, do you not think, to be fair to the lads, they had... You're almost revert to type because there's nothing you can do. Once you take the legs off and the creative players and you've got Rashford on the bench and Ivan Toney for two minutes, Saka's on the bench. Surely, like, the players have to... The problem was, Paddy, them big players, they brought on what you expect to stop everything defensively.

19:11Didn't. No, I know. I think it was all right on the left-hand side against Messi. Messi, 39 years, a verse of age. I know you don't want to show on your left foot, but you also can't let him go on the outside, have you? and Mackey puts a great ball in and he's got five centre-halves in there, Dan Byrne, John Stone. That's the biggest thing for me. The smallest lad in the box is probably the lad who scores, Lattaro Martinez. And we still... Is that because we're up to five? Is it almost like everyone's going who's got who and there's too many people? If you look when Dan Byrne went on, he's like, all of a sudden there's about five people in that central area, centre-half, and this is why the ball's not being kicked.

19:50And he's looking over, who's going where? That's what I'm saying. Sometimes you have too many. Yeah, exactly. Too many. You get in each other's way and you expect the other one to do your job.

19:59Nicky:The three that play in there, they don't play in the three at the club, so they're not used to it. It's just a weird scenario when you go to international football. To change it that late, I just think it's bizarre. You might feel different. Did you ever feel in control of a game like we did at United? I know it's different in international football, but I never felt comfortable. I never felt like, we're dominant, this is going to be easy. You know the Dutch, when they played Japan, they did exactly the same. 20 minutes before time, they were winning 2-1 in the group stage. And Koeman went defensively.

20:36But that is not Holland. He got killed. He got killed in the Netherlands. He got killed. And then against Morocco, because there are so many Moroccans in the Netherlands. and the game was a little bit political. He starts with a five and that's also not the Dutch. And he got killed and he didn't come out. Players couldn't get out and all that kind of stuff. So in a way, it's a little bit, it's England, the Dutch. Do you know what you're saying there? I think there's a difference between Holland and, I'm not saying Holland are the most successful team, but they've done all right. you know what you are I'm not sure we do

21:21Nicky:that's what I was getting at before about the team selection if we'd have got through do you reckon we'd be able to pick the starting 11 for that World Cup final on Sunday I don't think we would have there would be changes I don't get it I think when you get to the latter stage of a tournament you should have your 11 and then 11 should know and if you're preparing at the minute it's like if you're a player there's always been 1 or 2 Not three after the quarterfinal win. Yeah, but he had to do something. He had to do something on the right. He had to do something on the right because Manduweke didn't play that well.

21:56And I think... There's clearly something wrong with Saka. Yes, I just want to say, if Saka was 100 % fit, he would 100 % play that position. So he had to do something there. There must be... I think he's always going to want to play Spence. Yes, too, yeah. because he ended up being so a breath of fresh air. What about his tackle? Unbelievable. You know, you look at the positives because everyone talking about Spence Gwynn and going, oh, he's hardly played for Spurs and what, but I tell you what, he's had a great... He's lucky with that tackle. He was at fault for the winning goal though. A little bit.

22:31See where he went like that? He started hopping about with his toe. Then O 'Reilly had to go out. Yeah. But that tackle, initially, initially he does wrong. Yeah. He does wrong. he's lucky that he's dead quick Martin Hedges was the same against Cameron it's always their mistake they're recovering from but it was unbelievable another thing 30 years ago we said this right at the very start when I heard Thomas Tuchel's interview and Jimmy might know a bit more about this from an English point of view that we were going to play at a Premier League pace Premier League pace we're going to overpower people stronger and be quicker and get to the ball did you see the halftime interview last night with Anthony Berry no

23:14Nicky:yeah I couldn't hear it it was bloody he's in the pub yeah he said pretty much the same and it frightened me to death when Tuchel said it before it frightened me because we've been around 30 years ago in these tournaments we've said exactly the same don't work yeah these Dutch teams these Spanish teams these Italian teams German teams makes a tempo Spanish they want you to run about like a fucking idiot and he said last night he said we want to try and gain a bit more control and then our Premier League power and pace don't quote me on that but it was definitely something along those lines will bring us through it was totally the opposite they looked fitter they looked stronger they were brilliant at keeping the ball moving the ball side to side when they went when they went down by the way from 1-0 and they were patient and the quality that was coming in was brilliant now as soon as we went 2-1 down I'd always say I'd always be disrespectful to League 2 but it became like League 2 football Dan Byrne up Jordan Pitford just walking out to the half Jordan Pitford we're relying on Jordan Pitford to deliver balls to our players and that was really bad Jimmy you keep playing don't you you have to Dan Byrne has gone up you have to work it wide automatically you have to work it wide when you go behind so when we went behind to 1-0 when they went behind to 2-1 automatically they went back to the edge of the box and that's when you look there's 5-6 minutes left and it's a little bit of desperation but you've still got to try and find ways to do it like Argentina did exactly which is what Argentina did but also there's where the goal comes from brilliant when you're in your when you're in your national team it's the best of the best like again I don't want to dig anyone out but when Conza gets them two chances to put a ball in he can't get past the front but I'm going what's going on that's the squad no I know but you must be able to put a fucking ball in he's not doing that week in week out though is he he's playing centre-half what happens there is that's the fault for me of the manager picking the squad if you had a easy saying it now I'm not going to be a smart arse by going you should do it but if you had Trent in that squad do you not think that's the time to bring him on when you put a 6 foot 5 player up top to deliver balls bring him off the bench and put him on that's the fault of the squad we still wouldn't use him we still use Pickford to launch it but then also a striker has to come across that first man as well so that he cannot just have it easy when you're a striker Jimmy You're looking at Konza thinking, he's probably not going to come where I want him.

25:43So I've got to get it from him. I'll make his bad ball look a good ball. Are all batteries the same? That's like asking if all soccer players are the same. Take Messi, the most decorated player ever. Is there any other player who has achieved that? No, just him. Now take Duracell. Is there any other battery with power boost ingredients inside? No, just Duracell. Remember, goats only trust goats because they're built different. And Messi only trusts Duracell. This episode is brought to you by Google Health. Stop chasing someone else's definition of health. What matters is what's healthy for you.

26:25Google Health offers a new kind of coach built with Gemini for effortless tracking, sleep insights, and holistic coaching tailored to you. Visit googlestore.com to learn more and start a new relationship with your health. Requires Google account, Google Health app, internet, and Google Health premium subscription. Features subject to change. Availability and results vary. Not intended for medical purposes. Works independently of Gemini apps. Check responses for accuracy. And we're live on Match Day as Doug reaches for a buffalo wing. He's got it. Oh, and he's gone for a can of Pepsi too. What a finish.

26:56There's no doubt about it. It just tastes better. Match Days deserve Pepsi. Now it's time for Built Different where we discuss what makes a world-class player different from us mere mortals powered by our friends at midnight the betting app that's Built Different and today we are talking about the Goats Goat Zinedine Zidane Zizou What a player lads The field is yours boys What makes him Built Different What a player Do you know what's the most surprising thing about him a little bit when people see Eric the size of him massive big lad massive he's got a head of air a bit like yours which is not surprising again scolsy Mr Nice guy on the pop I'm saying you're looking you've got a little bit there's a little bit of a look about him there's a little bit of a look you remind me a bit of him

27:48Nicky:that presence he was stature because I came up against him a lot as we did in midfield you did a lot more than me I could say that he was the hardest player I've ever played against obviously Ronaldo R9 but him Was he a bit nasty as well? Nasty Hard So I'll get to the stories The manager told me When I first played against him I think he was a bit pissed off Because he turned Man United down To go to Juve And I remember he said to me Get against him He's getting a bit old now He's got the legs he used to have I think he was 30 It's one of them days When you think Right well I'll go and give him a dig Just went like that And I bounced off him I tried to sprint against him He was quicker than me Obviously with the ball He was a genius He was one of them players That no matter what you try to do he could match you everything and that the talent like yeah it was just silky the way he controlled the ball the way it was like his ball with a ball at his feet you know what i mean yeah do you know something else when you look at someone and you can tell that a good bloke as well it all adds to it what you like always like cool always quiet everyone says he's so quiet he's uh do you know when you like you can go on youtube and watch like uh compials player reels and all compilations have you seen the film on him it's an hour of a game and it's just basically the camera on him even when he's not got the ball it's poetry you watch on YouTube Zidane's highlights you sit down and you're like look at this it's just graceful you know when the ball comes over his shoulder and he just brings it down what about the one with his goal hand and power left foot volley outside the box you know the one for me where I think I don't know if it's France or Madrid I can't remember it must have been France I think it was Barthes who boots one out but he goes right up in the air and he comes and he sort of yeah like a croif yeah on the half volley yeah yeah and do you know what it weren't just that he could head a ball as well yeah just everything graceful all round players everyone speak about Zidane and go what a talent but he could do everything as well take a football off him he could outrun you he could out fight you he could out pass you he could out dribble everything I remember Beck saying once about in training obviously he was at Real Madrid and he was saying he was probably saying Beck's a player of a loads of good player top top top top player but he said he was a joke every touch he did was perfect yeah it's speaking of him like that in the highest of regards and then we've got a Zidane quote here lads Zidane was a fan of Paul Scholes he said Scholes was my toughest opponent the complete midfielder and undoubtedly notably the greatest midfielder of his generation.

30:32I'd have that tattooed on my chest. Yeah, it might do. Good idea. Get it tattooed.

30:40I've heard that quote loads of times and I'm great. I don't know how true it is. I don't know how true it is. I agree. I agree. With Zidane. The quote. Do you?

30:50Nicky:You've gone quiet though. Oh, no. Of course, he was a genius of football. He was really, really, really. It's hard getting you two to compliment each other. I've come to Mexico's the whole time because you've known each other forever it's funny when you're mates with someone you don't see it do you I do see it and I have seen it with scores and I've said it since I met scores when he was a kid like even when he was couldn't get around the pitch because he was younger smaller no but you know but all joking aside no genius footballer but what I will say is for someone like that to say that because for me he was the genius have we got the evidence of him actually stating it why would you even question just fucking enjoy it oh I love it enjoy the compliment it's brilliant from a world class player tattooed on my chest and my penis yeah big enough yeah one line on my penis it'd be scut and that'd be Z CH and then just dot dot dot and then the but yeah he's just one of them and he were you know when you talk about like Messi and Ronaldo and Iron 9 and all that but for me there's something about Zidane where he just I don't know he's just in a different and I don't know what it is the only thing is when you play against him in his heyday and you're thinking he's just so silky he's just a genius I mean you've just got to clap him and he played against him when I was about 40 in the soccer raid and he did the same thing he just took the piss he couldn't get anywhere near him it's a natural gift that he had that he excelled it was just so easy for him football was easy for him it's hard for me it's fucking easy for him no it isn't it's just pure class on and off the pitch yeah do you know what as a manager I don't forget as a manager did he win yeah it's Champions League I think he won it five isn't that maybe three times I think he's the only one to win it three times on the track it's so much stupid like that as a manager you forget about that it's just one of them and it's like certain people a bit like Bex whatever they touch gold just certain people in life have that don't they and the way he carries it he deserves that do you know what I mean oh my god I mean you were saying about that game I remember that I remember him walking out with his blazer on his shoulders and he's like and I was like fuck me if I walked out with my blazer my shoulders look alright twat but him I'm going yeah fantastic one of them people is just whatever he does he looks a cool fucker Eric was the same one yeah that was built different powered by midnight built for now not like the old school bookies it's quick to use simple to navigate with no messing about and remember you've got to be 18 or older and please gamble responsibly you three have done a million post-match interviews and you say things in the heat of the moment what do you think about Tuchel saying I've no regrets like it is what it is he can't come out he can't come out and go I should have done it he's got to stand by what he's done he's got to he says two things he says two things he says i've got no regrets but i do understand that i'm going to be criticized and that the the the box stops with me and you know he does say that in a way basically he's i think in a soft way he's saying yeah i've made i've made a decision and it's not worked it's not I think looking back he will regret his squad and what he went with eventually not playing his footballers yeah you said a couple of pods back that he's not done anything that Gareth Southgate hasn't done yet but the reason he was brought in is that last 20 minutes last night and he's just and he's absolutely just gone defensive we'll never know if he brought his three of attackers on they might have still got beat yeah yeah yeah we'll never know but you can live with it but how would you be exactly but you can live with that I think you can live with that yeah exactly yeah that's what I mean if you go out on your feet fighting it's just the way we went out going back to his squad going back to his squad the decisions that raised your eyebrows at the beginning of the tournament when he made a decision who to take of those guys who has been a success and who's not in your in your mind who have played who have played yeah well it's at Bellingham and Kane really they were always going to go, weren't they?

35:19They were always going to go. The ones that you thought, hmm, I wouldn't have taken. Everybody.

35:24Nicky:Dan Burns was the only one that I would think, I thought they should have brought me, took Maguire instead of Dan Burns. I think Dan Burns done well when he's come on. Bit of a mistake last night with about five. I didn't expect Spence to go. No. No. I did not expect Spence to go at all. He's been a breath of fresh air. He's been absolutely magnificent. But I didn't expect him to go. I don't think he's been magnificent. I just think he's been alright. Anderson's done well as well He's been better than others Anderson's done well as well I would have all the Yeah What do you think Is the future holds now For Thomas What do you think Do you think he's going to be Staying or Obviously he's going to come out He's going to come out in the press And say he's staying The FA are going to say he's staying Is he going to really want to stay Because he's going to have Two weeks of hell now I was fuming last night Fuming Because like We've just chatted about it Everyone can see it But I really do think You stick with him Yeah because I hope he'll go I have dropped a ball up there I'll do it differently like bringing someone else in now what's he going to do no no he'll think it you know what I mean hopefully he'll think it these managers are stubborn they don't change their ways they don't the best managers they never change because we we're sort of there it's just that silly I don't think we were there I think we've got English fans it feels like now I'm an English fan you're fucking idiots because you all go we're great if you dissect it all now looking back we played half a game against Croatia well and we it was a load of pride in the Mexico game because we were down to 10 men so we played I reckon we played 45 minutes of good football in the whole tournament well who do you swap in for then?

37:04I don't think that I'm not saying change I'm just saying don't expect a massive amount of change from it

37:10Nicky:do you know the thing is we're never we're never going to win anything with the mentality of this country the way we play football right from a young age so fortunately I've been involved in academy football when I was younger and I'm probably going off a tangent a little bit here however when you go to South America which I did do with under 13s under 14s or you go to Holland or France or Spain at 13s and 14s you watch their teams right they fucking want to win every tournament they play at 13s and 14s British mentality is no no we've got to develop players I get development I've been in development I totally get development develop players but what we don't do How do you develop players?

37:47Nicky:We don't develop winners. By winning. Yeah, by winning. So we don't win. I went to a tournament in South America. We're happy to lose. I went to a tournament in South America and I watched the under-13s team against Man United's under-13s. Their parents, their coaches, we've got to win, we've got to win, we've got to win. And they won it. Our coaches are going, it's all right, we played really well, we played the right, we didn't fucking win. You can't develop players and then expect them to win when they get 21, 22, 23. You've got to develop teams that can go and win football. Unfortunately, we don't do it.

38:18Nicky:We've done it a couple of times in the FA when we've won an under-19s or an under-20 tournament, which is brilliant, by the way. But you've got to develop winners at young ages. And I'm telling you now, for me, if I was in charge of the FA, people can say, you're full of shit, Nick, or do what you want. I would bring a manager in as a deal with the FA where you go and say, right now, except losing the next tournament, because we've been losing for 100 years, we've won once in 100 years, except losing the next tournament, which is the Euros. but we have to win the next one after that. So to do that, you've got to pick young players now.

38:49Nicky:I think we're going to speak about forwards, which obviously lucky you've got to have Jimmy in here. Who's going to replace Kane? We don't know. Who's going to replace X, Y and Z? But if you don't start now picking young players at 20 and 21, accepting that they're going to lose the first few games and the first few tournaments, not the first tournament, sorry, you're not going to be able to win the next one because we don't have that continuity. I remember in Spain, before Spain won the World Cup and the Euros way back when, they're a team of players that they kept from the age of 16 17 18 19 all the way through not only tournaments they won one as a junior as a young team and then they went on one of the euros in the world cup you've got to take a few steps backwards to go forwards all you want to do now sorry all do we want to do now is go and pick the next manager to win the next tournament it doesn't work like that you've got to have a plan of years it takes four five six years to win a tournament if you had carte blanche to bring in anyone you wanted no who would you bring i don't I think it matters who you're bringing it matters he's got to have some impact I'd say Eddie Howe me he's English he's a great coach he's an unbelievable coach I'm telling you now but again I go back it doesn't matter if it's Paul Scho Jimmy Floyd if you have a plan and you're all in this plan together from a certain time frame it doesn't matter who you're bringing the players are the ones that matter the players are the ones that have got to perform in the heat at the moment in the semi-final in the World Cup you can blame Tuchel he wants to bring you five at the back but Tuchel didn't miss that header at the back post it was the three lads and the full back that missed the header so you can blame the manager all you want a lot of it is to blame him but the player they've got to be better the only thing is about that is when you do that the game is going to be played all the time in your defensive third yeah so you're going to get crosses in yeah and they might make a mistake my issue is let's play the game there at their part and if we make a mistake they still need 90 metres to go there that for me the only issue with that is I don't think we have the players with the mentality and the quality to keep possession of the ball to take a game away from people like Spain do exactly that's why we need to make players that have got that mentality and you don't make players at 22, 23 you make them at 15, 16, 17 I think we've got them and they weren't chosen who?

41:06Nicky:Cobbry Mane no obviously got players but they've never won anything in tournaments they've never won anything in big tournaments Phil Folden has he won it in the under-19s and 20s you've got to start winning at a younger age I'm telling you you fucking don't it just doesn't happen they've won tournaments I'm pretty sure we've won a World Cup with Phil Folden that was under-21s wasn't it it was under-21 or 19s I can't remember which one it was 19s but I'm telling you no 17s or 18s Angel Gomez was in the same one I think until we find players in the middle of the pitch who can control a game of football take a game I've said it a million times I'll take a game away from people we're always going to be in this position who do you think will replace or potentially replace a Harry Kane now, can you think of anyone who jumps to your head you can't can you, it's hard so you may as well go to ones that no one can think of to get there eventually, let's hope that Harry Kane doesn't retire yet and maybe one out of the youth comes up and is a worldie you know, and starts playing we've got people like Max, I know Max Diamond's not centre forward but he'll be around for the next one but that's what I'm saying and that's a player with qualities or you have to change or forget about the striker play differently play without a striker and play two look at Spain play without a striker yeah well or that's a ball it's not really he's a false name yeah it's a false name there's a good point what you make there scores there's a really good point and again I'm probably boring people but we're losing anyway we're losing tournaments anyway so you may as well lose with young lads that are going to get a bit more experience in tournament football to get the end game go and throw Max Downman and play every single game every single international game play him can I ask you a question when you've played in international games where we're saying about with typical England we revert back to type we keep going to this formula that doesn't work for us do you look at England or does it get said amongst other teams like we know what they're going to do like is there a certain way England play where you go we know we're going to we're going to get them there do you know what I mean?