Our Premier League 26/27 PREDICTIONS ft. Michael Owen! 🔮

27:40Would you have tried to get Casemiro for another year now? No. No? No, because I think that was part of the problem of getting attacked through the middle. I think going forward there are I think they'll be fine I think they'll score plenty of goals I just worry about centre-halves centre-halves and still another midfield player really you're going third mile I want to well I've probably been brave saying I want to be brave and say Tottenham as well I think they could have a brilliant year I think their manager's brilliant and for the very same reasons they've bought so well they've spent a fortune I love Tottenham and again not in Europe the same reasons for Chelsea I'm probably not going to be brave enough to say both of those teams I'm just going to go steady and say Liverpool and Manchester United for third and fourth part of me is wanting to say Tottenham I think I'm happy leaving City out the top four and putting you know and for you to be saying Chelsea and Tottenham are second and third I think it goes to show we haven't got great teams this season I think in the Premier League, I think this is the most question marks.

28:50I'm not saying bad team. No, not bad teams. I think going into this league, and that's why I just think Arsenal are just set in stone to win. But I just think there's question marks about every single team. And big question marks. Well, half of them have changed, so all of them have to be question marks. There's so many question marks. I mean, Liverpool's defence has been shocking all last season. New manager, Mo Salah's gone. there's so you know Eketike's injured there's so many questions and even the midfield lots of people question Manchester United you know I do but he has to I mean Mo Salah's gone and Eketike's not there who's their attack at the moment you've got young Rio and Gamora you've got Gapho that they say is going to go to Tottenham they've got nothing up for no striking options that he keeps getting linked now obviously Barcola could come and looks like he will come from from Paris Saint-Germain but there's so many questions about every team so many exciting though isn't it it's exciting lads love it so you're saying Tottenham or Tottenham go on go on I'll be brave I'll say Tottenham I think Chelsea and Tottenham could be surprise packages okay

30:12Nicky:United United I'll go for one I forgot about Chelsea Chelsea right 4th the other way in the top 6 5 minutes ago 2 7 now not going to I just want to know who you've dropped out Villa ok Villa right 4th 4th for me Liverpool Liverpool yeah I agree I'll go Liverpool no wait a minute I'm going to say Chelsea Liverpool 5th I'm going Liverpool 4th so right ok very quickly top 5 gets your Champions League nowadays doesn't it I'm going you have to go so I'd have to go City for 5th 5th yeah 5th you said that 4th no I said I went Chelsea 4th oh Liverpool 5th United 5th and then Tottenham Tottenham 6th Tottenham 6th City I'll tell you what City 6th 6th yeah that's him by Christmas what did I just say about Maresca and everyone went quiet I'm like I just just a feeling and then company being coming in in a roundabout way we're all agreeing you're putting City up there but you think company might you think it'll be out by Christmas so we're all sort of agreeing that City could struggle right okay so I had him second didn't I did he yeah I thought it'd be alright the perfect lunch combo that first bite of your favourite sub followed by ice cold Pepsi add a couple of friends and now that's next level.

31:44Suddenly, the laughs get louder, the stories keep flowing, and the food tastes better because Pepsi brings out more flavor, more fun, and more of the moment. Food deserves Pepsi. Grab a Pepsi Zero Sugar today. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans.

32:30Now it's time for the Built Different Index, football's alternative league table, powered by our friends at midnight. The betting app, that's Built Different. this week's alternative league table is all about the managerial merry-go-round chaps in a minute I want you to try and put the big six in order of who's had the most managers since the Premier League started so before that though what's it like when a manager leaves the club what's the feeling around this I haven't got that much experience of it but I can imagine it being strange I had quite a few

33:05Nicky:obviously with Newcastle so when I went to Newcastle I signed as I said before on the programme because of Sir Bobby yeah and then literally within three weeks he was gone and my time at Newcastle including interim managers I was there five stroke six years I think I had something like 10 or 11 managers with the interim managers including so it was as an older player you know your game and you're okay you can just look after yourself but I imagine younger players try to play a certain way of football and it change change change obviously not healthy the main one obviously Sir Alex when he that I mean that is like the biggest one I think in football history him leaving United what was that like for you?

33:52well I left at the same time so no but was that part of your decision because you knew he would did he did he give you the heads up though? no no I think it was well documented I think he announced it in the January time maybe that it was going to be his last season so I went I think everybody was ready for it and look at replacing somebody like that is always going to be hard but you look around you look around all the big clubs when they've had managers for such a long time they're hard to replace look at Wenger it took ages look at Unai Emery doing amazing at Villanueva he couldn't step into the Arsenal job we said before Arne Slaughter is probably the one that has done it and then the year after he's it's all gone against and Mareska now replacing Guardiola he's going to be he's going to be so hard When Sir Alex, when you knew you were going, you were announcing everything else, who did you, even though you were leaving, did you have any names instantly popped in your head going, oh, they'll take over, before David Moyes was mentioned?

34:52I don't think I did. I think Mourinho probably would have been an obvious one at that time, as we've seen in the documentary. It probably could have happened. If the manager was involved, I think the manager was involved in heavily and who the next one was going to be. If you'd have known that, you'd probably thought David Moyes was probably the one. I think once it was announced, David Moyes, I think it may have said, doesn't it?

35:14Nicky:He knows the league, he's stable, he's a bit of the manager's school of thoughts, if you like. So it wasn't a shock to me when he got the job. Did David Moyes try ringing you when he got the job and say, Luke, do you fancy another season? No, absolutely not. I don't think he wanted me to be going as a coach with the first team but I think the manager recommended that I did. Alright. But I had a chat with him actually and I just wanted to take some time off really. Yeah. I was done. I wanted to step away for quite some time and I went in September just to see him and I think that's when Phil Neville ended up getting the job that I was going to do.

35:57Yeah. No, I just went and I weren't sure about coaching anyway but look, do you know what? When I look back, I think I think I would have learnt an awful lot from him and that might have been a different path to go down but I didn't

36:10Nicky:I think the one good thing going back to the changes of managers when you get into an older player like I was at Newcastle is for a long time you just got to say I like it and there's nothing wrong with that it's obviously the greatest but you have that train of thought and that's it major 12 towards 30 yeah but then I went to Newcastle and I had some amazing managers there that have different thoughts and processes around football and you just take little bits I think it is, if you are going into coaching, which I tried, it's very helpful. Right, well, let's get into it then. So we're including interim managers in this list as well, and we'll count the same manager going back as a new manager.

36:50I think the most one, the bit I think top of the tree, will be Tottenham. Are they top six club Tottenham? Are they the last ones? Yeah. I'd have said Chelsea. Right.

37:02Nicky:one of you's got it right one of you's has got it wrong well that's obvious isn't it if one's got it right one's got it wrong clever you put it out is it Tottenham well what I was going to say is one of you's has got number one one of you's has got number fucking two why do we have to jump down my throat on everything you could have got number five number six number three but one's gone one one's gone two so you've got the right clubs but in the wrong order right number one has had 30. 30? What, since Premier League started? Since Premier League started. 30 managers. And that number one is Chelsea.

37:40Had to be, didn't it? Yeah. Well, Spurs then. Number two. How many do you think at Spurs? Chelsea got 30. Very close to that. 21. I'd say 25, 26. 26? Right, so Chelsea's number one. Spurs is number two with 26. Who's number three? Liverpool. Nope. City? Who were classed as the big six? Tottenham? Villa? Tottenham, Arsenal. Shall I give you the names of the teams for the big six from Premier League started? And then you can pick them. So we've got Chelsea, Spurs, City, United, Liverpool, Arsenal. I think probably Liverpool. You do say Liverpool. You do say Liverpool. You do say third? I said City now.

38:30City. City he's right yeah 18 then Liverpool no no no Arsenal no Villa Villa well I didn't mention them so you know you can fucking throw them in there if you will I'd always put Newcastle as the top 6 but perception number 4 Manchester United really I'd never guessed that that's obviously 13 including in trims as well 13 number 5 Arsenal no Liverpool yes got it at the end didn't it K &L Liverpool 10 Arsenal Liverpool 10 that's not a lot is it Arsenal 8 that was built different index powered by midnight built for now not like the old school bookies it's quick to use simple to navigate no messing about search Midnight build different index for more information remember you've got to be 18 or older and please gamble responsibly this episode is brought to you by TNT Sports and lads if football teaches us anything it's about levels what team last season hit a level you didn't expect Sunderland Sunderland Sunderland yeah that's a great shout Sunderland yeah Bournemouth Bournemouth

39:59Nicky:I always feel Bournemouth I always do well Brentford you put in that bowl as well Brentford yeah they did well the manager that I put in but I'd go Sunderland they just think what they did and they didn't could see that many goals really for a team that just come up yeah I'd go Sunderland Who's going to be a level above this season? Find out on TNT Sports showing the biggest stars, the fiercest rivals and the most memorable moments from domestic to European football all in one place. Watch the Premier League, UEFA Champions League, Europa League, Conference League, Emirates FA Cup and Women's FA Cup.

40:36Live on TNT Sports. There's levels to this. Stream TNT Sports on HBO Max or watch TNT Sports on EE, Sky or Virgin Media. 2026-2027 football season. Subscription required. Age 18 plus. T's and C's apply. The perfect lunch combo. That first bite of your favorite sub, followed by ice-cold Pepsi. Add a couple of friends, and now that's next level. Suddenly, the laughs get louder, the stories keep flowing, and the food tastes better. Because Pepsi brings out more flavor, more fun, and more of the moment. Food deserves Pepsi. Grab a Pepsi Zero Sugar today. Firstly, I want to ask these two if they remember seeing you come on the scene.

41:27did you hear his name before he brought through yeah yeah

41:30Nicky:I think when we was playing obviously we were about five or six years older than Michael and we'd be training I remember a game at Carrington we played against Wes Brown and the big thing at United at the time was this young centre back Wes Brown he was phenomenal he was like a Rolls Royce when he was back and then Derek and then obviously we'd be training over there and then we'd come to Warcross on a Saturday morning it must have been a Sunday game or something we'd watch the game and Michael played against Wes and ripped him apart be fair but um them two from was the standout young player that you heard of coming through was michael and wes and it proved that for a long time i might be wrong here but did you i think it was a victory shield did you play in that as well yeah yeah they used to like televised over there yeah yeah friday night i think that's the first time i saw him wow yeah yeah michael's pace when he was younger was absolutely ridiculous i mean that's the first thing I seen with his pace yeah it was like and then in front of goal just scores yeah at least hits a target every single time he scored most yeah it was I think the big thing with Michael and you see a load of centre-fault was going through on goal and you sometimes you're not sure with my thing you thought yeah you start jogging back to the halfway line a little bit yeah it's like playing netball yeah you see the girl just put it in you knew nine times out of and he's going to score.

42:52And I think with Michael as well, it was all about choosing the right finish. Yeah. I mean, I think that's the hardest thing to do as a centre-forward, is in that actual moment, what is the right thing to do? And Michael knew the right thing to do. And the right thing to do for you as well. I mean, I talk to a lot of young strikers now. If you watch Ronaldo going through on goal, Brazilian Ronaldo, nine times a time he goes around the goalkeeper. You don't know which... And everyone knows what... And that was a finish that he had mastered over the, and it was his comfort, you know, that's a comfort blanket.

43:27When you go through, it was, that never entered my mind. I tried it. And the beauty of being faster than everybody as a kid is that you get literally 10, 15 chances every single game. Just knock the ball over and it's one-on-one, one-on-one, one. So when I was a kid, I tried that finish. I tried the dink. I tried the slot. I tried all different kinds of finishes. and you eventually find your, the one that suits you. So there's no rights and wrong, more than one way to skin a cat. And I found that, and I always say as well to young kids, don't be, if you're a centre forward in particular, don't be in a rush and certainly not your parents to push them up a year, push them up two years, be the bully.

44:08It's all right if you're a midfielder or a defender and it's a bit too easy, but not as a, have a million chances every single game because that's where you find your finish. And if you fast forward then to when you get put in a difficult position, you get played three years above, and now they're restricting you to one chance a game. How does that make you feel, as I said? I'd start thinking, it's my only chance. I've got to play safe. I've got to hit the target. I've got to do all these things. Whereas if you get in 15th, I'll miss one. I'll score the next. I'll try a dink. And eventually you become so...

44:44And now if you give me one chance in the game, I'd be so confident and so relaxed because I know my finish nowadays. So there's a lot of, you know, people say natural finishes and all that. And there is an element of that. But there's also an element of repetition and finding what works for you. And I found what worked for me at a real young age because I was quicker than everybody. I got millions of chances every game and I found that. Can you remember when you first met Michael? actually met was it an England it would have been an England game yeah who did you make your debut against Michael Chile we got beat 2-0 I was at that Salah scored 2 got beat 2-0 a few of us made our debut I think me Dion Dublin both I'm not sure if that was my

45:30Nicky:debut as well you know I can't remember if mine was to be fair but I remember it was you can't remember your England debut it's Chile or Mexico don't look elsewhere that's the thing as a fan who'd give his right arm like most people would to add the career you lot have had and you hear that and you're like that's so ridiculous I must know your debut's again I think it's Mexico and I've got it tattooed on my chest and my penis just USA on you I hope it wasn't Luxembourg or something the first time you meet Michael like personally was obviously where the England gets together and it was a bit strange then because Michael was probably the player that was against one of our biggest rivals is yeah i don't know you end up meeting someone away from that environment end up growing to you know becoming really good mates it's a really weird dan i mean i used to hate michael when i was playing instruments at liverpool yeah he's just because you never knew he's a person i just knew him as a player he was very very very good one of our big rivals and then you end up meeting it um england then obviously we played newcastle i've ended up being best mates but it's strange how it is strange because i'm the same i grew up like in the liverpool academy and And of course, you know, you see these guys winning the league all the time.

46:42You're thinking, right, as soon as I get into that first in, you know, and so you build up that hatred is probably a stronger word, but he's just used it as well. Use it back. But, you know, like, Peter Schmeichel's picking the ball up. I'm like, right, here's my chance. You know, 10 minutes. And I try and then get a yellow card. Two minutes late. Ronnie Johnson. People don't realise this. Red card. It's like that is the hatred coming through. But then you meet lads and you play for England and you play for Newcastle and spend a lot of time. and everybody's mates. It's just... Because everybody assumes that every footballer are best mates.

47:14Yeah. Don't even know them. Yeah. This is when these two tell me stuff about United and I'm like, they haven't got the numbers. I'm like, got it. Again, as fans, you just presume you roll together all the time and round each other's osies. That's the most common question, I guess. Who do you hang around with now as if it's like, as if it's supposed to be a footballer?

47:34Nicky:Yeah. It's like, like my brother worked in a factory as a like 3 000 people he might have three mates yeah i worked with a thousand footballers in my life i probably see them once or twice yeah or one or two of them regularly and then i might message the odd one 15 of them yeah the rest of them were just colleagues that if i see them now big hug and gray and yeah let's have a drink or whatever but they're not your mates. We said this last week, don't you remember? Didn't we have this assumption? We don't have each other's numbers. No. Really? Yeah. I know. Have you said to me, you played with a thousand players, how many of their numbers have you got now?

48:14I'd say probably 10. Please don't say that, man. Please tell me you've got Brazilian Ronaldo's number. I have, actually. Good. Oh, yeah. You've still got his, though. That's good. We like that. No, this is the one for me. 22 years old, you win the Ballon d 'Or. 2001 it sounds crazy saying this but did you actually did it dawn on you how big of an achievement that was at the time no I didn't even know what it was at the time that's just crazy I didn't know about what it was I was going to say it wasn't as popular until probably Ronaldo wasn't it it was never honestly that's it's mind blowing to me I genuinely asked Gerard Hooley when he phoned me up and said you've got to keep this real secret but you've won the Ballon d 'Or I asked him what it was I didn't know what the Ballon d 'Or was I mean no I knew there was an award for the best player in the world we all know there's an award but I looked through the and I'd come fourth you must have come right up there at a certain point I came fourth in it in 98 I didn't even know I won it in 2002 I was looking at all the winners and the you know oh my god I came fourth in it when I was 18 and it was like i didn't didn't know that it was just not the whole thing in the in our day was it no well when did it become a thing that then put it this way when i went to spain i i realized how important it was if you go to it if you go to france you go to spain yes but it is the biggest thing in the world yeah it is so big and i realized when i moved to spain because every time they mention your name it's almost like you know like we have honors list like nicky bought mba or something yeah but you know what i mean it would almost follow your name whereas over here no one

50:06Nicky:even mentioned it you know never mentioned funny story about that i was with di the other day and having something to eat dialogue then it's lost daughter and he was talking about a dad and he said i've been clearing out the house and stuff and i found loads of stuff shit he's ballon door and I'm going we're mad when you think about it obviously where it is now so our kids will be like no is a band and he's going wow I'm massive now but I think when Michael won it that was a change when it then became I imagine it's not in the back pages of our papers was it? like I say I think it's very much a European foreign thing really you think of Gerard who were ringing probably massive to him he's got to keep it a secret if you think about who won it in the past you know you got Sir Stanley Matthews like incredible donkey James you got Sir Bobby Charlton again everything goes Kevin Keegan and that was it there was just four there's just four English players and you're the last English one to win it yeah last living one as well sadly obviously we lost the other day when you went to actually get the award and you were there you were looking around did it not dawn on you then did you not go well hang on look he's over there ease over ease up it was probably never telling you then it wasn't even that now they have this big guard thing and I've not I think I've attended one in the last 20 years I've just never but it's in they just they just came to the training ground and presented it no no I can't have it and now they presented it before the game as well so we were playing at Anfield against Derby County and they presented me and look at my face when I'm getting it I'm like I'm hating it get off just don't you're not ranging just I've got a game to play here do you know something I'm not comparing it to the Ballon d 'Or because it's nowhere near that but remember the World Club Championship when we played in it it was yeah that was the big controversial one same thing but like all the other teams when they go and win it and play in it it's like a massive big thing obviously nothing like a Ballon d 'Or an individual but it's a bit the same it's like the Super Cup and even a bit like the game yesterday the Champions League the other thing foreign like Mourinho counts it is trophies doesn't it I think they all, we're just a little bit more relaxed in that way.

52:20I can't believe... If it was now, it would be massive. Yeah. Or it would be outrageous now. I can't believe you never went over. It did when it happened. Yeah. Like, loads more to me now, yeah. Honestly, I can't believe you never went over. I can't believe, just give it your training. Yeah, came and did the big photo shoot at the train and then officially presented it, you know, 10 minutes before a game, the next game at Anfield. There's a lot been said about your career, Michael, and like I said before, various accolades, but just yourself, if you look back at your career, when would you say age and club you went, that was, I was 10 out of 10 then, that was like me at the top of my game, you personally.

53:05When would you say that is? Because everyone else will have a different opinion. 18, 17, 18 years of age. no what you say that was your peak yeah it's phenomenal

53:19frightening that's crazy yeah why is that you can say it with a smile on your eye it makes me feel sick well yeah because like you know this bugger here you know snapped when i was 19 and you know it would have been better to break my leg it'd been better to do my cruise ship it'd be better to do virtually any other thing but you take my speed gene away from me and you know as you all know three hamstring muscles one of them ruptured totally and when it ruptures it recoils it's like an elastic band obviously ruptures so my right hamstring has got that bit that's recoiled on you know reattached near my arse cheek somewhere and that's behind my knee somewhere and it's just reattached.

54:03I was running on two hamstrings on my right leg, three on my left in, you know, R terms, not medical terms, since I was 19. So my speed just went at 19. Not went like that, but gradually started going from the age of 19. It's strange you're saying 17 and 18 because, and you thinking that, because if you look at your career I don't think it didn't affect you that much with what clubs you played at and what No we just spoke about the Ballon d 'Or I won that at 21 or the season I played was when I was 21 I got given the award when I was 22 so I could still play because you're still quite pliable and whatever when you're young but as soon as you start getting a bit older those little niggly well the big one and then the little niggly one they start slowing you down big time and then I had to start really changing my head Do you have troubles with medicals though?

54:57How long did you went to Real Madrid? 24. Right, and everything was okay medically. Yeah, yeah. Your knee was a bad one with England as well, wasn't it? Knee was a bad one, but if you think about my knee, that was my hamstring leg, so I'm massive deficit in strength anyway. And then we were playing away New Year's Eve away at Tottenham. Paul Robinson landed on my fourth, fifth matarsal. I'm in a pot for three months. Come back right at the end of the season, so already it's my deficit leg then my whole leg is like that because i've been in the pot and the rehab you know it was a rush to get to the end of the season get into the world cup so my knee was absolutely fine i just totally um what's the word i'm looking for uh d i just didn't have any enough strength and muscle you know because that's what all your muscles do basically protect your joints and act as shock absorbers so i was just a an injury a knee injury a crucial injury waiting to happen As a player, did you always have it in the back of your mind or did you just play regardless?

56:00Or did you always think, I've got to be careful with a challenge or anything like that, just in case it goes? Certainly not a challenge. I mean, tackling or whatever, not at all. Sprinting, yeah. Yeah. I mean, he used to get the ball when I signed for United. He'd get the ball and I felt physically sick that I couldn't do what he wanted me to do. I knew my instinct teaches me that. I've just never done anything other than scores against the ball. I know he's got the vision of anybody in the game. Run, sprint. With him playing, I could have scored a million goals. Were you aware of that with him?

56:37Yeah, I'd say when it came to him. Not with England. Well, it didn't happen. He was a dream for a central midfield player who wanted to play the ball forward. Now look, there was probably times at United where you see him and I know he wants to make the run he's looking at me I see him in my face I know what I think and I know what I think and I just think no I can't I'll snap my hamstring and I'm thinking the same but with England fucking hell them days it's the worst feeling about it and the problem is you do interviews and everybody you know and people take it as if I'm having a go at them or having like when I say to be honest I didn't really enjoy the second part nothing to do with Newcastle nothing to do with Manchester actually really enjoy scoring we had a great time I love Manchester United playing with these players and whatever but like it wasn't me it was it was a it was a Scholesy gets the ball shit I can't come and get it to feet I just turned into a link player that just got in the box and tried to rely on the ball falling to me and finishing and that was something you never enjoyed that the link bit it was never it just wasn't Michael not natural to me now look sometimes as you go further into your career you have to do that don't you but he was still at an age where he thought no I should be going that way but couldn't really do it couldn't do it so people misunderstand me in many ways I might not articulate it well enough but I hated me not the teams I hated me I wasn't me anymore I was morphing into a different player that was not my natural game Scolese's just mentioned it and you know And we did our best.

58:21I did my best and actually really proud to still have been 32 or something, playing, being so compromised physically and still being able to train and play at that level. But we had it. When I was at Newcastle, I thought he would have seen the same with me. I had my knee injury coming back from that. Keegan spotted it quickly. He put Oberfemi Martins and Mark Baduka up front and he played me just in front of Butty. And I played as sort of a number two. I'd never played in that role in my life. Yeah. And we'd had a great run scoring loads of goals and everything was brilliant. But he spotted it really early, Kevin Keegs.

58:58Yeah. And said to me, don't you worry about, you know, you come and link and play with Butty and all the rest of it, which was good fun. But no, as I say, I get misunderstood a lot of the time saying I hated it. I hated me in the second half of my career. Not anything else, not any player or any club. Yeah, it's got to be frustrating that when you know what's in the locker and what you can do, but that injury. yeah I think we all do that I think it just happened earlier with Michael yeah we all get to it as I may feel I'm thinking I can't get to the box anymore you said it about players going past you you knew you were better than them but you just couldn't get there yeah

59:35Nicky:it happened to me probably about 34 Newcastle I think I remember I'll never forget the game it was Nigel Ryokoka and he was a good player but he went past me like I wasn't even there and give me a little smirk and a little wink and I thought that's me I'm done after this season I'm not playing football and inside you you're wondering because you're still that yeah of course your body is just letting you down it's like oh my word I can't let people like this run past me I'm like a multiple you know millions of caps and all the rest of it and people I'm not saying Rick Alcour's a good player but there's average players were pushing me off the ball I would just look at them and think I had to walk past you in my day and now they're just like taking the ball He's self-pride as well.

1:00:18Nicky:Yeah, of course. It's pride. It's horrible. He's a great example of somebody that's like that as well. Because Scolese was a player that used to be in the box scoring a goal and what have, and then ended up sitting there and literally dictating him. So you changed your game. Like, okay, you didn't change your position in many ways, but you had to change your game. And how you were, like, unbelievable at one, a goal-scoring midfielder, and then went to being unbelievable at being basically a quarterback, that's but I didn't really like that bit Giggs fascinates me how you can John Barnes players John Barnes this is these players are geniuses they reinvent themselves and come inside and still never give the ball away create goal score goal yet they were like jinking wingers yeah you couldn't be more opposite yeah so like we all have to do it I had to do it I had to go from one type to another and to be able to as I say to stay at some form of respectability and near the top for your game changing totally takes a lot I mean he did it do you know why you're saying that no more but you did actually go to argue the biggest football club in the world at 24 didn't you after you were injured and getting there how did you feel there when you got there was it like a new lease of life or did you say that mindset in the back of your mind about your hamstring I didn't realise when I was there that I was regressing and I probably was I was still probably young enough to still be at the top of my game I could still put it this way when Bex got the ball yeah i could still sprint over the top and not snap it too yeah um so i was still sort of young enough i think the turning point was newcastle yeah when i did my knee because then that's a year out oh sorry six months out with my foot and then came back did my knee year out so i was a year and a half and that lying dormant just made when i came back i didn't feel quick anymore i felt sluggish.

1:02:11And that was probably the turning point. So, no, Madrid was fine. Madrid was alright. I still felt like a... How long was it Madrid for again? A year. A year. Again, this is one of them ones. So you go into the dressing room, it's the Galacticos here at R9, Zidane, Figo, Beckham, Raul, Roberto, Carlos. When we're talking about players in training, I mean when you've walked out on that first day the deal's done you go this is my first training session what's going through your mind? Get the respect of your players get your respect to your teammates yeah the last thing you want to do and anyway when I joined you know Manchester whatever club you know whenever you join a new club it's the fans will think what they think they'll you know you can score a goal and they'll all sing you know the manager you have to start with the players you have to get the respect of the players and i remember being more intent on playing well you know normally you go out to train and you you don't talk about normal players yeah no but you and and when as it ends got the ball you're thinking you know you are so like on it thinking i've got to impress into that you've got to impress you're just you're just thinking of impressing them yeah because the last thing you want and these guys will tell you when you play at the top level you need people to trust you like there is you can hide you can you know when you're playing against an average team at home at old trafford or amford and you're beating them four nil you can you can win it with nine men when you're playing in the top games at the top level nobody can hide for one second you need everybody at it and you know at the burnabout when i'm marked i want zidane to lift his head up and think i can give the ball to mike lowen yeah he'll do something he'll give me back or whatever and and gaining that respect i mean these two guys play at the highest level for a long long time a lot of the time i'd be given a ball and i'd be in a bit of a hole you know a couple of big guys behind yeah a two cent sitting midfielders about to converge on a lot of the time you think help you do think help i mean being as a defender you're always looking forward half the time of course it's quite easy and your safety is all right i'll turn back and so you're always sort of safe but the positions we played you're in a lot of trouble a lot of the time and you quickly find out who your mates are yeah quickly find out who have got bravery yeah winds me up people that say oh you tackle and you break bravery is different i'm in trouble i know he's going to be there yeah and even if he gives the ball away because he sort of got me out of it he'll still do it yeah and that in amongst a team goes so far yeah that's what you want to sort of garnish and foster and whatever when you first move to a team yeah to get that respect from everybody that you can give me the ball and I won't lose it did you ever do getting the trust from your teammates is the best it's the biggest and best thing you can get getting it off them players Jesus Christ I remember playing in teams that we probably played and you're thinking I'm not sure I can pass the ball to him really oh there were some players that were like that yeah you think fuck he's going to give it away and what happens when someone signs at your club everybody's just for the first training session or two and then you all go back and we're not bitching right you'd be like see how good he is yeah you're so excited that you've you've signed a good one yeah and conversely if they're not very good you're like can I pass can we trust him remember Rio in the box you must be Rio sir his first box fucking I would pay 30 million for that really we're winding him up though obviously he has to realise what the standards are but when you come with a price tag as well.

1:06:04Yeah. Everyone's watching your first set. Players are the first ones to set the piss out of you. You know when you go away and you do that and you will not know names but you go, fucking hell, he's not the best. What do you think the manager's seen in them? That must come into your head going, why have they signed him? If you're seeing he's not the best in training. I'm not saying training doesn't mean anything. It's an awful lot but look, it's Saturday afternoon and you've got to do it Tuesday, Wednesday night. They're the ones. and converse on the other hand some players come to you and think fucking hell as Michael just said what I thought Reed Van Nistelrooy when I saw him I thought fucking hell I'd never seen anything like it the other one was Van Persie now look I knew how good he was at Arsenal but then I watch him in training that is different just a different standard of player and you can imagine the sort of pressure of going to a big team with 25 my lads and I've watched you in the first session how much you're concentrating on my first impression that's exactly how I felt if you're in training at Real Madrid and you did something and you're like oh that I was tasting you looked up and Zidane's not looking be like fucking hell he's missed that did you see what I did did you feel you got the trust early on you must have with Madrid yeah yeah did he help you in Bex I guess I guess so yeah just to sort of ingratiated with the other lads training aside just you know talking to everyone yeah i must admit i did have a slight feeling of definitely that they respect them and thought i could play and all the rest of it but i was a little bit sort of different in that i wanted to sprint over all the time and in madrid it's a little bit more they want technical and technical passing and whatever and they might might turn their nose up at us Brits thinking we're a little bit physical we're a little bit long ball we're a little bit do you know what I mean they play at the beautiful way I mean look at Spain played in the World Cup I mean I don't think they had the best squad at all player for player but God did they have the best team you know the way they played is unbelievable and totally deserved it but that's the way they play they just they're not really into risking the ball and me sort of being on the last line as defenders like chipping over the top it's like It's not really how we play.

1:08:27No, they want to move it into the box. I felt a little bit like my natural game doesn't really, Zidane's not really get the ball up and let's feed one over the top. No, yeah. So I just felt, you know, goal I scored in El Clasico. With Lex. Yeah. He sees it. You know, he knows sort of my game. And I just felt there was maybe a hesitance. Now, that probably didn't come over and scored plenty of goals over there and it all worked nicely. but I did have that little feeling inside that, no, Michael, that's not really the way we play here. Yeah. We want you more technical. Did that come into your head?

1:09:03When they came in asking, you know, if you're interested in going over there, obviously Real Madrid, you hear that name, you're like, well, if it's me, I'm like, yeah. But did you think, oh, the way of playing is not going to suit? No. No, you were just like, yeah. I didn't think so. And, you know, when you've got good players, you will always, you know, good players make good players. ticked you know there will always be a group of players that you just they're on that wavelength and you don't even have to say anything just to look you know you look at someone and they just see the game quickly and better and it's almost a non-spoken thing did you feel like you had to change going over there because remember you've been signed because of what you've done yeah because you've been that player runs through and did you feel like i've got to try and be a little more technical and that's not quite brought up in a certain way of signing players which is the manager yeah i was signed by the president he was the best out of them all when he trained

1:09:58Nicky:every day he was your goal i know he's thinking you're gonna say but he was your goal it's just unbelievable to watch caesar event yeah ridiculous yeah every day yeah like just unbelievable just it's hard to say isn't it when you when you see someone you just think like he'll take once if you throw a ball at me now and I want to go that direction I'll probably chest it low and take it with my right foot and run yeah he like he would just you know like gracious in gracious sort of last minute he'd be able to turn his body to chest it and it sounds easy just tiny things that you think oh I would have taken two or three touches to do what he's just done him the speed of him he would do a turn and bob you off with his arm and he'll be 10 meters away from anybody he's so people underestimate the size of him size of him strength of him you see him with his top off and he's not like oh my word get near him and he was just bang away from you and you would be five yards that way and he'd have gone that way he was so good he was only there a season wasn't he yeah why he just didn't like being away from all no I I loved it it was family a bit of family yeah we're actually just doing a documentary at the minute my missus says for the first time um we never even spoke about it it's quite interesting actually she didn't like it then she she was desperate to and it's really difficult you know restaurants don't open till nine or ten at night we had a one-year-old child you know no language in a hotel for the first six it was quite hard for us to say i loved it i mean i ended up playing nine holes with ronaldo every day i was going to say yeah but you're in a different mindset yeah you are a very family oriented but like with all your family oh for millions saying that yeah there's loads of years in there so that must have been tough for you as well yeah yeah your mom and dad i suppose they'd have gone over quite a bit though they did but the problem is that your family don't want to come over and take in a game so we would play on a sunday night at 10 o 'clock at night we'd train on a saturday morning and then go straight to the hotel don't see him all saturday all sunday still in a hotel play sunday night you get home at one in the morning two in the morning and they bugger off home you know on Monday morning so I don't see them my missus might have seen them for a couple of days but so and it's understandable it's quite hard but I I loved it but no going back to I mean you can't say about great players and obviously Zizou was the best in my opinion but R9 well right I actually thought you're going to say R9 to his question when I grew up watching him and he was so good but talk about injuries it's a bit like you in that sense a younger super starts coming through and then you see the same age as him no he's a bit older but we would do a quad stretch you know warm up and he could like it was just it was so painful watching and watch how many times he toe pokes the ball later on in his career I always used to think oh he just likes that foot because he couldn't bend his leg to straighten it to kick it from 18 yards out to 20 yards out he couldn't hit it harder so it's either a side foot because it's a straight leg side foot or a toe poke because you keep your legs straight.

1:13:14Unbelievable, isn't it? And talking about compromising, you know, we all said, I'd have my hamstrings, you had, you know, whatever, just generally getting older. We've all, you know, we all, he couldn't hardly bend. And he, so he was having to toe poke his finishes. That's how compromised he was. And he was still playing for Real Madrid scoring 25 goals a year. We're talking about two of the very best centre-fours in Ronaldo, Michael. Yeah. Imagine if they were foot. No, no, that's, yeah. It's crazy. When I watched Ronaldo growing up, I thought I was going to be you know I was coming through when I was doing well and I was but then I switched on the telly on a tap in my mind watching whatever him playing for Barcelona and I thought I'm a I'll make it as a pro but if that's the level I'm nowhere near what I do Do you remember his goal?

1:13:59I can't remember Oh he ran for them all Bobby Robson as manager Yeah Bobby Robson go that hard Do you remember when he played Inter Milan he was there as well? He hadn't played for months but I think they wheeled him on at a hard time the lad couldn't move but he was that good and that much of an influence, not just probably the rest of the team, but the crowd as well. I've no doubt that if he was fit all his career, there would be no doubt he was the best player ever. This is something I love out like this. I presume you're at Newcastle at the time, Nick, you were Michael, and you're the person who told Michael that Sir Alex

1:14:41Nicky:were interested in signing him yeah i got a phone call and with the with the manager you'd always get a private number so it's either a private number is always a manager or someone you don't want to speak to so if anybody had to answer them i'll wait for a message and anyway it's pumped i can sign and answer it and he went hey nick it's my jersey everyone knows what he does when he's like that you know it's him there are some awkward silence yeah and he goes it's a manager and he waited my manager but he called himself the manager and i'm going yeah i'm thinking oh there might be a chance of that i might be going back to united yeah i'm back and uh they spoke about michael obviously we ended up being best mates up there and he was saying you know we need somebody that can not play every game but he can be get his goals and he can start games and he's not gonna be faith and what's he i said no brains are second straight away really your goals whenever he gets on my pitch great lad obviously you get on very well with the manager about the horse race and stuff so i just rang michael out laughing you i don't know why you was at home or something yeah in the house something yeah i remember i remember to this day i just said michael you're gonna get a phone call in a minute it'll be private number make sure you answer it the minds you want speech and you think you want you united and that was it he rang me and said the same as well yeah and he never asked you about other players ever really with england with them so you think the perception goals i think the perception of michael when he was getting to the center the end of his career was like you know he's got all the ambitions with horse racing and I went no he's trained every single day he's one of the best trainers you'll see he's still a finisher still he's going to score your goals and I think that's probably what the minds are waiting to hear from me and obviously from scores in the sports team so when he's rang you you've put the phone down are you now looking at the phone going here we go like Sir Alex Ferguson ringing up absolutely yeah I mean at the time it's quite nerve wracking I don't know if you've been on a Bosman before when you've not had anything sorted so my contract's just finished at Newcastle and the weeks are going by in the summer and you're thinking i bought some horses to pay for whatever i was i'm still in my i'm like still got a fair bit of your career to go yeah and you start thinking if no one comes in am i gonna have to retire or do i have to go to you know there's some really average well at the time i'll tell you at the time uh two premier league clubs had come in for me hull who were obviously near the bottom yeah and everton so david moise had phoned me so i'm like oh well i can't go i mean i was an everton fan as a kid but i can't go to everton the fans will hate that's too much and this is the most ironic thing like i had no you know i could have gone abroad but not to a good team anymore so so when you know when what he phoned me i was like oh my god and of course listen you still have those doubts you still think to yourself all the fans are gonna you know is this gonna undo everything i did but then you think to yourself do you know what i've got one i've got i know loads of the lads there i play for england with half of them i can live at home i can play at the top level it's probably going to suit me perfectly because you know there's already berbatov and and wayne there and others so i'm not going to play all the time and at my age now and with my injuries and whatever it's probably good that I come on and be almost like a you know score a goal here and play in the Carling Cup or whatever the Cup was called at the time and things I just thought you know what this is absolutely perfect and I know I'm going to get a bit of stick but you know you get one shot at it what do you want me to do go and sign for Hull with all due respect to Hull fans come on what like but I think it's not as though you went straight Liverpool to United you went other clubs in between which I think softened the blow a little bit it's not like he didn't he picked man united over the pool lippool didn't come in for him no one yeah yeah yeah that's a good well that could never have happened buddy you couldn't go from the pool at 24 years or 22 years versus about no absolutely no chance but the way it's happened like paul ince played from both yeah it has happened yeah listen it's uh it's something that you'd never think when going back to what we said earlier when i was 12 if you'd said that you're going to play for man united you would think no way but You get older, you get wise, you make friends in the game and everything else like that.

1:18:55And you realise, you know what, you don't necessarily think like a fan or certainly I don't anymore. And probably the moves I've made have made me think like that. But at the end of the day, it's the people, in my opinion, you go to a club, it's the people in a club. Clubs are bricks and mortar and yeah, they're history and yeah, it's fantastic and whatever. But if I look at my time at different clubs, I think of the people and the, you know, the friends that you make and the canteen ladies and the receptionist and the lads and the memories and all the rest of it. I don't now, you know, if Liverpool lose a game, if Man United lose a game, if Newcastle lose a game, I don't lose sleep at night.

1:19:36I'm more of a football fan than a diehard. And that might be my career has actually made me feel like that because I'm not a one club man. it's very easy for Scolese to say yeah I hate it when City win and Man United lose it's quite easy for him to say that but with all due respect to Scolese and I know lots of big clubs could have taken him but he was always winning big things there was never any reason to move on you know at Liverpool we were sort of coming fourth and sixth and fifth and when Real Madrid come in it's like I've got to try that and then once you've gone you're a piece of meat then really you're anybody look after yourself and your family because playing for Liverpool meant you know was you a Liverpool fan he was a Liverpool fan no an Everton fan was you a Liverpool fan just when you were saying that then just coming to it about going to Real Madrid from Liverpool because you go I've got to go to them and you'd not won anything at Liverpool where you think oh I can kick on here we can dominate do you think that was why the Trent Alexander-Arnold move to Real Madrid was a little bit more sort of upsetting for the Liverpool fans because they had won the league and they weren't in Champions Leagues and stuff like that.

1:20:54Yeah, I would say so, but I mean, obviously, having made the move myself, then I sort of was a lot more sympathetic to him. You know, from my side, he's won everything. He has just given you so many great memories. He's won everything. And this is our lives. It's like it's our job it's our lives we're not you know we're not fans anymore this is you know this is serious stuff this is our family's futures and yeah things like that and it changes you like when i left liverpool and went to real madrid it was it almost overnight then became my job and as much as i loved my job it was still it became my job whereas at liverpool i was just in this zone of be the top goal scorer win all the games try to win the league just i didn't even know what my wage was or what my length it was just like this is such your passion because you're coming through as a kid but then but you'll be able to resonate a little bit more than scolzy i guess but then once it's club to club to club it's all about can i live at home is it great for my future is it good for my career can i stay at the top left blah blah blah and all of these things whereas when you're coming through at united in their cases it's just the buzz of playing you don't even you don't even think of anything else but playing it's a very very different as I say saying it's just a job is the wrong thing but it becomes more of a job hey Michael just relax now for a minute you're not here now but we're going to talk about you right so lads Michael Owen prime Michael Owen in the Premier League now number one what's his What's his price if you're signing him?

1:22:40And number two, how many goals is he scoring a season? And number three, where's he ranking amongst the current Premier League strikers, forwards, whatever you want to call them? It's a horrible question. You're not here, are you? No, I think it's easy. He'd be the best now. Well, with Haaland, I think he'd just be there, really. Yeah. What kind of price tag?

1:23:05Nicky:price tower 200 million yeah price that crisis look at what i sent him a field has gone for yeah and the and the winner it's 200 mil oh my god yeah 150 i'd say so yeah 200 million honestly 200 million nice isn't it you're leaving here today floating i don't know i don't know about goals wise but he'd be the top goal scorer depends what team is in what did harland score last year 30 30. he scored mid 30s i mean i've never even got close to that but i think it's totally different you said it before as well or you played in a team that was like finishing the third fourth fifth if you're going for the team it's the best team in england if you're playing for man city for and you've had uh if you're playing man city for five kevin de bruyne scoring 200 goals kevin de bruyne and roger and people are like yeah exactly yeah what do you think how many think you'd score now in a city team in the best city team we've seen for five years or if you was in the United team from years ago oh god yeah how many yeah 38 league games and that's all that matters isn't it you'd be disappointed if you didn't score 30 goals yes you would wouldn't you in those great teams that win the league yeah yeah definitely you know as all of you as I've got you here and you've all like been there done it got the t-shirts but do you look at the modern game with you three and think god if I were playing now I'd be like top tier all the time like you were just saying about your next you don't think that no I think opposite really yeah because they're all such athletes now and that was one thing that never was isn't it crazy him saying that no that was one thing I could have compete physically now probably I think he's been a bit harsh on himself there I do not at all he's being scolded but for me look at the players now they're all fucking big fucking then you've got you've got the Bernardo Silva you've got certain players that'll be able to manipulate the ball a certain way and you was like that I don't even think about what I'd be like playing now because it's just in my style of football it's a total different game I heard something about Frank Lampard the other day saying he did an interview saying who would you describe yourself like now in the league and he said nobody because he wasn't being big head no it's just a different game who's Michael like I don't even know what position I play in you know i just think about that because everyone who plays two up front yeah i don't yeah doesn't and if you do play one could you can you play someone like my height well that's what that's what's the point i was talking about playing in that city team it probably wouldn't suit you no no it's got more athletic now on it really well athletic physicality of the game you only see one center forward yes michael at our time with center forwards when we were playing it was all about partnerships or something Michael said it many times someone who's been Emi Leska he's best partner probably yeah but Michael as a number nine on his own I don't think that would suit him and you wouldn't want to do it I think I'd be a wide player nowadays no well what else can you do or not a player at all hey goalkeeper that's the position I've got to say what a treat that's been Michael Owen thank you very much for coming on thank you Michael Absolutely love that.

1:26:25Thanks, mate. Cheers. That's all we've got for this week's The Good, The Bad and The Football sponsored by Midnight, the betting app that's built different. We'll be back next Monday and when I say we, I mean me and Paul Scholes because Nicky Butt will be off on holiday again. Unbelievable.

1:26:55Thank you.