Arsenal battle past Chelsea in Champions League – Women’s Football Weekly

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:13Hello, I'm Faye Carruthers and welcome to The Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Arsenal are into the Champions League semi-finals after knocking out Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. Manchester United couldn't overcome Bayern Munich at their fortress with the German champions also into the last four. Now, it seems like a while ago, but we'll cast our eye back on the weekend's WSL action and congratulate Bournemouth for winning the FA Women's National League Cup for the first time. We'll discuss all of that, plus we'll take your questions, and that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly.

0:46Guess who's back? Back again. Susie Rack. Tell your friends. And I've got a voice. That's a lovely haircut. You've got a voice.

0:56Suzy Wrack:It's like, you know, tick, tick. New week, new me. I don't know. Is that a thing? No, yeah. I've got my voice back so I can actually participate this time. Amazing. Excellent. Freddie Cardy, how are you? I'm good. I think it's quite appropriate you've started off with some talk about hair after the events of last night. All good. Been enjoying the football on holiday in the Lake District. Oh, that's so lovely. And yes, we will talk about the hair pulling incident. I very nearly put it in the intro, but I thought, no, no, no, no, no. Be more professional than that. Emma Sanders, how are you? Good, thank you.

1:31Although I'm down in London, so we all know how I feel about being in here and not at home. Oh, wow. She's gone hard in, Susie, immediately. Well, listen, at least your Wi-Fi is working. Arsenal's defence of the Champions League title continues. It was a tense, enthralling encounter in front of almost 17 ,000 people at Stamford Bridge on Wednesday night. That is why we're recording on a Thursday morning, by the way, so that you get all of the live action from the Champions League. And Rene Slager's side came through 3-2 on aggregate to book their spot in the semifinals. They went into the second leg, you'll remember, with a 3-1 lead to defend after that impressive performance at the Emirates.

2:12Chelsea did win 1-0 at the bridge on the night, but obviously not enough to overcome the deficit. it. So that means back-to-back European semi-finals for Arsenal, Susie. Do you reckon these two performances showed how much Arsenal have learned about themselves and maybe about the competition itself, actually, over the last 18 months or so?

2:30Suzy Wrack:Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think it showed a maturity, particularly in that first leg to get a two-goal cushion, despite having it pegged back by Chelsea's goal in that game. And then a patient performance, particularly early on in the first half of this game when you know Chelsea were really kind of pushing when they came out and trying to get an early goal to kind of pull them back into the tie instantly it was a real yeah patient performance in that sense could have done with being more clinical but then the same could be said for Chelsea big maturity points for Arsenal in that across those two legs and yeah they know what to do now they know how what it takes to win this competition we saw that kind of resilience last season when they were coming from behind in the court finals, in the semi-finals and then going on to win the final with such a phenomenal defensive display.

3:21Suzy Wrack:I think having Steph Catley back at centre-back was really, really important for this tie as well. And I think you noticed the difference when she came off too. So yeah, solid game. They'll be frustrated to have conceded particularly in added time to kind of really put the pressure on themselves. But they also had an advantage in that they played a day earlier on the Saturday. The job was done against Spurs fairly early on. Chelsea had a difficult game against Aston Villa, which again, I'm sure go into later. Arsenal got injuries, but Chelsea have quite a lot of injuries and significant injuries at the moment.

3:53Suzy Wrack:And so I think that, you know, a number of factors around the game that made Chelsea's performance really impressive. They just needed to be a little bit more clinical. But these games are always so tight between these two sides. It's always the finest margins that define them. Yeah, without a doubt. And look, we'll get to the hair pool and some of the contentious decisions a little bit later, because I think we need to focus on Arsenal bearing in mind they were the side that won. And actually, you know, as Susie mentioned there, Freddie, they did have to absorb quite a lot of pressure to defend that lead.

4:22And the stats were quite even in terms of chances created. So how much does that show that their defensive performance was what really got them over the line in this in the end, especially, as Susie said, with the loss of Steph Catley in the first half? Yeah, it is a different side to their game. and it's an Arsenal team that, you know, we're still without Leah Williamson in both legs and without Catley for the second half. They spent 90 minutes overall with one recognised centre-back on the pitch, you know, against that Chelsea front line. And even though they're missing players, I mean, we'll come on to McCabe for different reasons, but she's played 90 minutes centre-back out of position and put an absolute shift in.

5:00Lotta Wubbenmoy often goes under the radar, often something of an understudy in this team. Outstanding. And then I thought Alessia Russo playing in that deeper role, I think she just helped to absorb so much pressure. Every time Arsenal get the ball up the field, she's just able to kill the game a little bit. She's able to take time out the game, able to bring others into play. She was so impressive for me. And like Susie said, the maturity, it's, you know, Arsenal was so measured at full time. And I know they've lost on the night and I don't know how footballers find it. I don't know if they wouldn't have liked losing on the night.

5:31And that's why they're not celebrating. But compare it to when they came back to beat Real Madrid. There were players running onto the pitch in the quarterfinals last season celebrating. It was almost a bit of a feel of we've been here before. And that was quite interesting to me of Arsenal really starting to think, actually, we belong on this big stage. And it was just quite a mature display. And even looking ahead to the semifinals, you know, it's Wolfsburg or Lyon. They ran Wolfsburg close a few years ago. It's maybe not a strong Wolfsburg side. And they beat Lyon away really impressively last year.

6:01So there's so much belief and so much reason for them to believe they can go all the way to the final again. Yeah, disappointing for Chelsea. You know, this just seems to be the trophy that they just cannot get their hands on. But, you know, they did make a fast start, Emma, but wasteful in front of goal, as we've said. Do you think Sonia Bonpastor takes some blame for getting her tactics wrong? Or is it the players that need to bear some of the responsibility? Yeah, I think it's a difficult one for Chelsea because I think they were hampered by injuries in the squad. I think that you have to mention that.

6:37I think there's context behind it. I think that obviously limits what Sonia Bonpastor can do in terms of the tactics. Sanko was the only fit number nine, for example. A lot of the team sort of picked itself purely on who was available. You looked at the bench in both legs and really there was not really much you could do in terms of changing the game because of the personnel available. but I think she could have done more in terms of maybe defensively. I think I'd mentioned quite a few times to people around me, I wonder if she goes to a back three or a back five so that she can bring on more players out wide and more attacking players in those positions.

7:15And I think there was a hesitancy maybe to do that. She kind of stuck with the back four with Lucy Bronze in that centre-back position. And I think it worked in some ways and didn't in others because I think you're limiting what you can give going forward. And I think when you're two goals down in the second leg, I would have liked to have seen that change maybe happen. Or could she have maybe just taken a risk, taken off a midfielder a lot earlier and pushed some other players higher up? But overall, I personally don't think there was loads she could have done. I think they did switch formations in other areas.

7:50They did try different things. as you said I think the difference between the two teams wasn't massive I was very impressed with Arsenal and I think sometimes the team who wins were just better across both legs in those fine margins I think in the biggest moments Arsenal were better they were more ruthless they were calmer and more composed in those kind of moments that could have turned the tide obviously there was a lack of fortune on Chelsea's side as well they were on the receiving end of some poor officiating decisions. I don't think they handled that very well either, both the manager and the squad.

8:26And I think it was just an accumulation of all those little things which added up. And I think in the end, Arsenal deserved to go through. I think they were the better team across both games. Listen, we've been teasing it the whole pod so far. I think we really need to get into the officiating. Both matches had contentious decisions that left Chelsea and Sonia Bonpastor feeling particularly aggrieved. So at the Emirates, they had a goal disallowed just before half time for a soft foul. We should also mention, though, that Chelsea defender Kadisha Buchanan was perhaps lucky to escape a red late in that game.

9:00And then the final minute of injury time at Stamford Bridge, when the tie was at 1-0, Katie McCabe was shown to have pulled Alyssa Thompson's hair as she broke past her. The referee didn't give a foul. Bonpastor's remonstration saw her sent off. And she was then quite heated post-match as well, brought receipts to her broadcast interview, showing the video of the incident as well. This is what she had to say. If the VAR is not able to check that situation, I don't know why we have the VAR. I'm the one getting a red card when I think the Arsenal players should be the one getting a red card. Katie McCabe did apologise on Instagram straight after the game, by the way.

9:38I just want to clarify, I was genuinely reaching for the shirt. I wouldn't ever want to pull someone's hair, full respect to Thompson. These kind of things happen in gameplay. But there are some questions to ask about refereeing Emma at the moment. Yeah, of course. And I think the way that Sonia Bonpastor reacted, I think is only human. She's protecting a player. It was right in front of her, she could see it. And I think that was the most frustrating thing for her, was that if she can see it in real time on the pitch, How is VAR not picking up on it? And that's been her message across both games, is that she understands human error.

10:15She understands sometimes officials will miss things. But this is the Champions League quarterfinals. It's two of the best teams in Europe. And VAR, I think, has let them down. And I think that's hard to take as both a manager and footballers when you're putting in all that work during the week and you're performing to high levels. And as we've discussed, they were close to Arsenal in terms of the competition and it is all about these fine margins and there are other factors that we've discussed but when these decisions don't go your way I think it does have an impact. For me, in terms of the first leg I think had that disallowed goal for Villa Berman stood in the first leg I think the landscape for the rest of that game is very, very different.

10:59In the second leg, I don't think Katie McCabe's hair pull which I think we've seen the replays for me it's definitely a red card, it's a foul. She pulls her hair. I don't think you can sugarcoat that. And the referees should have picked up on it. And if they didn't, VAR absolutely should have picked up on it. However, was it too late in the game? Yes, I think so. You know, Chelsea by that point, I don't think were in control. They were pushing for an equaliser. They obviously got one late through Nuskin. But I think Chelsea were still the better team across the tie. So in that sense, I don't think it's had an impact.

11:34but I do think the officiating in the women's game has been a problem for a long time. We've discussed it over and over and over again. Referees haven't been full-time across Europe globally as well for a while. There's still inconsistencies. I think levels between leagues is massive in the officiating. I think levels between competitions is massive and yeah, I do have sympathy for Bonpastor and her players because when you're going into these big games I think all you want to know is that it's down to the football. And a lot of the times we haven't seen that. That is the case in the women's game.

12:09And it is really disappointing. I do think there needs to be a little bit of patience with that, because as you say, they are catching up. You know, women's football has had investment. It takes a little bit longer for that to then filter down for the officiating to reach the standards. But I do know that there is a lot of work going on behind the scenes in order to get them more up to speed. It just does take a little bit of time. Freddie, where does this leave Chelsea's season, do you think? I mentioned earlier this is the one trophy they've always wanted to get their hands on and failed again.

12:41Yeah, it's interesting because they have failed. But how much of the discussion, you know, is now going to be so VAR dominated, refereeing dominated. Maybe the fans will take quite a forgiving standpoint. Actually, they might look at this as actually, you know what, on quite Fred Bear resources. We gave it a really good go on another day of the refereeing decisions. go away we're in the Champions League semi-finals but I still think maybe Arsenal over the two legs were the better side I think they played really well in the first leg particularly so yeah it's it's an interesting one for Chelsea and they were devastated at full time I think both of these sides are going to have big summers I think there's been news out this morning about where Sam Kerr's off to in the NWSL that's come out the Australian media so I think that's going to be the key for them and for Arsenal is actually they're both going to have these really big summers but Arsenal might get there in quite a good position where perhaps they lift some more silverware so really frustrating for Chelsea I think the fact it's come against their you know their big rivals and the rivals who have won the competition that Chelsea have wanted to win and Arsenal are failing to win the competitions that Chelsea have been winning there's some real irony there but I do think maybe the manner of the defeat I don't know maybe Bonpastor's comments the fans sort of rally behind her a bit more and it galvanizes them for the rest of the season but I think the focus is so much on the refereeing.

13:59There hasn't been much criticism actually of Chelsea from their fans, which is quite interesting to see how that develops for the rest of the season. Yeah. In terms of Arsenal, Susie, Wolfsburg or Lyon to come in the next round of the Champions League. Rennie Sleggers said it's special to be a part of this team. The performances and the results that we're getting are good, but it's the everyday stuff for me. It's special. I think everyone feels this way about what we're doing at the moment. How are they going to be assessing their chances at this point?

14:26Suzy Wrack:I mean you've got to be full of confidence haven't you you're the holders you're going into a semi-final you've just beaten a huge domestic rival to reach that stage of the competition I think the focus now has to be for want of a better cliche one game at a time right like they've got those two important games in hand in the league which they really kind of you know need to build some momentum up with to you know make sure they get Champions League next season comfortably and can avoid qualifying and things like that where possible or extra rounds of qualifying, I should say. And after the win over Lyon last season, they can be full of confidence going into that semi-final.

15:05Suzy Wrack:Yeah, a huge step in the right direction to defend in that title. The teams that lie ahead are high-risk games, but they're top-level teams and there'd be no shame in going out to any of them, including, I would say, no shame on either Chelsea or Arsenal in losing this fixture, especially so narrowly. And no shame in Manchester United losing their tie either to Bayern Munich because their first Champions League campaign ended at the quarterfinal stage. The German champions took a 3-2 lead back to the Allianz after an eventful first leg and then came from behind to book their semi-final spot in the end.

15:43Before we get into the discussion, Tom Gary was on the ground in Munich to give us some post-match analysis. I'm outside the Allianz Arena which is now lit up in bright red under the night sky celebrating Bayern Munich's victory here 2-1 on the night, 5-3 on aggregate Manchester United exiting the Champions League after a decent campaign and a really spirited effort tonight specifically they played very well for large parts of this game especially in the first half but eventually the Bayern pressure just got too strong and the goals were coming in the end the two late goals from set pieces for the home side.

16:21It felt like they were inevitable. They just kept building up pressure in the second half. I've just had a conversation with Mark Skinner in the post-match press conference, asked some questions about set pieces, which he admitted I think was a little bit of a concern, but he said it was down to sort of mental fatigue for his players. And he said fatigue in general was the main problem. He put their exit down to fatigue. He says that they couldn't do the things they wanted to do in the second half because of tiredness. He also spoken quite a lot tonight about investment. He said that he's proud of his players and what they've achieved and the resources that they have, but he feels they could go further with a bit more investment, which is an interesting timing because only earlier today the FA released their latest list of the agents fees that were spent by WSL clubs and the Manchester United were seventh in the WSL for spending on agents fees.

17:09So six clubs spent more than them on agents in the year to February 2026, which was really striking. and the Guardian reported earlier today that Manchester United's wage bill last year was only half that of Arsenal's and I think that was clearly on Mark Skinner's mind when he was calling for more investment in a press conference. In the short term it's disappointment for their fans again they're out obviously having lost the League Cup final recently now and being out of the FA Cup and now they're out in Europe so it's all eggs into the basket of trying to get into the top three in the league now they've got difficult away games to come against Tottenham and against Chelsea on the final day of the season, so it will not be easy.

17:44And Mark Skinner said they're going to need to win all three of those remaining league fixtures to get into the top three. Let's see if they can do it. But for now, tonight is disappointment in Munich as they say goodbye to their European campaign. Brilliant stuff. Thank you very much, Tom. Been a tough week for United, but they did manage to drag themselves back into the tie in Munich before conceding two in the space of four minutes. But, you know, we have seen these defensive frailties, haven't we, in recent weeks, Emma? Where was this tie won and lost? Yeah, I think it was really difficult for Manchester United because similarly to Chelsea, I think the squad depth has maybe caught up with them a little bit in the last few weeks.

18:22I was at Manchester Derby on the weekend where it really was a poor performance from Man United, but they just had nothing in them in terms of the fatigue. And I think a lot of people were worried about them going into this second leg in Munich. And actually, I think they performed well over the two games. I did expect a little bit more from Bayern, I have to admit. But I think it was always going to be tough for this United team. Obviously, they're playing in the first season in the Champions League. And I think to get to the quarterfinals has been a strong achievement for them. There's some really, really tough teams in the Champions League now.

18:55I think you look back to sort of five years ago and it did feel like it was kind of all about maybe four or five teams. You look at the quarterfinals set up now and I think every single one of those clubs in the Champions League are really, really big, tough opponents. So I think United will be happy to have reached that stage and be among those. They would have gained quite a lot of experience from that. But I do think it was just that depth, that know-how, and obviously the lack of, I suppose, stability in that back line, which was the difference for me. I think United have obviously shown some attacking threat.

19:29Melvin Mallard has been fantastic in the last couple of months in particular. And obviously she gave it a good go in Munich as well. But I still don't think they maybe got the best out of those players because they probably weren't set up in the right way for the second leg maybe. I think obviously the injuries up front with the likes of Elizabeth Turland has also had an impact. I don't think Leah Shuler has been able to settle in as quickly as maybe she would have liked to have done as well. It's always difficult coming in January. So I think United probably missed that aspect too. But I just think it was kind of in all areas of the pitch.

20:01They were maybe just a couple of percentage off it really. And Bayern just had that. They had that in their squad. So no shame for Manchester United either. But I am a little bit worried about them now in terms of maybe missing out in the top three in the WSL and qualifying for next season's Champions League. And I think, you know, to reach the quarterfinals this year and then to not get in the competition next year would be a real blow. So it's a crucial, crucial couple of weeks for Manchester United. And they really need to just try and stick in there until the end of the season. Yeah, there are circumstances in terms of injuries.

20:36And it almost was the kind of classic game of two halves at the Allianz. United better in the first half, but fans weren't very happy with how they sat back in the second. But actually, when you look at the injuries, that may have something to do with it. And Mark Skinner alluded to that as well. We've got 45 minutes of really high level football. And then the second half is just down to fatigue and tiredness. They've just not stopped running. They were doing everything they can. Bayern rested seven players at the weekend and then came into this game. fresh, you could see energy was the difference.

21:06And, you know, that is elite level sport. You have to be able to have the squad depth and fitness in order to overcome these things, to get into amazing positions like the semifinals of the Champions League. And it felt like this was perhaps just one step too far for them, Freddie. Yeah, Bayern are a strange team. Me and Susie were there when Arsenal were 2-0 up at halftime. And this really reminded me of that last night, how they were so poor in one half. I thought they were just slow around the box. They were wasteful on the ball. And then suddenly the second half, it was just corner after corner.

21:39And I think that's where they got Manchester United in the end, because similarly to the Manchester derby on the weekend, it's the crosses in, it's the headers, it's the set pieces. And Bayern seemed to learn at half-time like they did when they played Arsenal there. I think it was back in November. Just had a bit more quality. The only thing I'd query of United is if they didn't have the legs, the tactics was trying to force an extra time and in extra time it was just not going to go their way in that case either because Bayern had a little bit more to bring off the bench United best hope was to really nick another goal in that second half and then be able to to get in a position to park the bus and I think once Bayern got back into the game it was sort of one-way traffic I thought first half you know Mallard was excellent running with the ball Mamutovic makes a really good save when United are 1-0 up Park obviously hits the crossbar but as soon as Bayern got the goal I just wondered And, you know, if United are playing for extra time, it's just not really going to go their way.

22:33So we have a fully fit squad, quite a different game. I think there's a lot for them to be proud of. But then the wider questions about investment and the squad depth, I think we always knew that might be costly, you know, with them fighting across all the competitions. And it's proven to be ultimately in the last few days. Mark Skinner said they'll learn from what investments really needed to perform at this level consistently. significantly and Susie we alluded to this earlier on but overall how would you assess their European campaign because you know as we said it will be a big blow if they can't back it up with qualification for next season where does it leave them?

23:09Suzy Wrack:Yeah in trouble in that sense I think this campaign has been a very very good one and I don't think as we said they they leave it with you know heads bowed at all I think it was a very very good campaign a very good fight to the finish at the end there. They really took it to Munich in Munich, which is a really difficult task as we've seen so many other teams fail to do to any real extent. And conceding goals to Penelahada as well, particularly in that first leg, is something that every team in Europe wakes up having nightmares about. So it's not an unusual scene. It will be extremely difficult for them if they don't get Champions League next season.