In short
Arsenal’s Champions League title defence ends at Lyon; VAR controversies and fatigue discussed; Barcelona beat Bayern to reach the final; WSL2 title and promotion decided (Birmingham win, Palace second, Charlton playoff); plus other WSL and FA Women’s National League playoff results.
Guests/backgrounds
Amy Merricks, Birmingham City manager (WSL2 champions). Other recurring hosts/pundits mentioned: Susie Rack, Tom (Gary?), Sophie Downey, plus producer Soph; no other named guests.
Key claims
Arsenal were undone by Lyon’s second-leg cohesion after De Mournay’s return and squad-depth fatigue (Little/Caldente relied on heavily). VAR checks were “right” but too slow/poorly explained, disrupting rhythm. Barcelona’s dominance continues; Lyon’s De Mournay is singled out as world-best. Birmingham’s success came from “OGs” leadership, bouncing back after dropped points, and goal difference.
Notable examples
Lyon goals by Wendy Renard and Carriato Diani; Euler Brand winner after De Mournay’s penalty win. Barcelona 4-2 Bayern; disallowed Penela Harder goal. Birmingham 2-0 Charlton; Palace 6-1 Portsmouth; Charlton vs Leicester playoff. Wolves promoted via 1-0 vs Plymouth (Charlotte Greengrass).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOReviewing Arsenal's Heartbreak
0:45 to 4:00
A detailed discussion on Arsenal's loss in the Champions League to Lyon.
“who've set up a final against Barcelona.”
Analyzing Player Performances
4:00 to 8:00
In-depth analysis of key players' performances in the match.
“and very capable of figuring out the best way around teams.”
Tactical Insights and Decisions
8:00 to 12:00
Discussion on the tactical decisions made by Arsenal's management during the game.
“mark of a great manager great leader isn't it to learn in these kind of situations and you mentioned Holmberg there.”
VAR Controversies in Women's Football
12:00 to 14:04
Exploration of VAR's role in the match and its implications on the game.
“with VAR because what one person thinks is clear and obvious, another person doesn't.”
Referee Challenges with VAR in Women's Football
14:04 to 18:12
Discusses the inconsistencies and challenges of VAR usage in women's football.
“because we don't have it, you know, across all of the women's game.”
Arsenal's Title Race and Upcoming Matches
18:12 to 22:50
Analyzes Arsenal's performance and upcoming critical matches in the title race.
“We talked about Penelaharda's goal, perhaps dubiously disallowed by VAR, that would have made for a tricky final few minutes.”
Birmingham City Wins WSL2 Title
22:50 to 24:44
Celebrates Birmingham City's title victory and discusses their journey.
“In part two, we'll catch up on the final day in Barclays WSL 2.”
Amy Merricks Reflects on Championship Journey
25:48 to 28:00
Amy Merricks discusses the challenges and triumphs of her team's championship season.
“I don't think a lot of teams do that in that fashion, if you like.”
The Emotional Journey of Winning Promotion
28:00 to 29:59
Discover the challenges and triumphs of achieving promotion in WSL2.
Reflecting on Coaching Development and Future Challenges
30:00 to 33:18
Explore the personal growth and aspirations of a coach in women's football.
“I don't know what to say to that because I haven't thought about it yet, but be really honest, I got my laptop out today after a couple of days of partying and I'm like, oh, okay, right, what's next?”
Show all 15 chapters
Recruitment and Preparing for the New Season
33:19 to 35:28
Learn about the importance of strategic planning for player recruitment.
“I don't want to give away too much, but obviously we have player recruitment, we have staff recruitment, we have pre-season building plans.”
Analyzing Palace's Comeback and Future Prospects
35:29 to 39:55
Discuss the performance and potential of Crystal Palace in the upcoming season.
“I think we can all take a lesson from that.”
Highlights from the Penultimate Match Day in WSL
39:56 to 42:00
Recap key moments and performances from the latest match day in WSL.
“Rebecca Knack scoring in the 91st minute to put City two points from the title.”
Leicester's European Qualification and Sam Kerr's Future
42:00 to 43:30
Discussion on Leicester's final game and the implications for player recruitment, with a focus on Sam Kerr's career and performance.
“That result also secured them European qualification as well, which must be a huge relief for Sonia Bonpastor to wrap it up, particularly because their final day game is against Manchester United.”
FA Women's National League and Wolves' Promotion
43:30 to 46:09
Analysis of recent match results in the FA Women's National League, including Wolves' promotion and the emotional impact on the team.
“Yeah, elsewhere, Manchester United salvaged a draw at home to Brighton thanks to a late equaliser from Leah Shuler.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This is The Guardian.
0:34Hello, I'm Faye Carruthers and welcome to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. And what a week it's been. We could talk for 12 hours and I still don't think we'd fit it all in. There was heartbreak for Arsenal with the defence of their Champions League title ended at Lyon, who've set up a final against Barcelona. The WSL too reached its dramatic conclusion. Congratulations to Crystal Palace and to Champions Birmingham, who beat long-time leaders Charlton, who have one more chance for promotion with a play-off against Leicester, who will finish bottom of the WSL after losing to Chelsea, who themselves confirm Champions League football next season.
1:09And congratulations to Wolves, who've secured promotion to the WSL too. Are you with me? Possibly. We'll review all the action here from Birmingham boss Amy Merricks later in the pod. Plus, if there's time, we'll take your questions. And that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. what a pod we have today Susie Rack thank you for last week you were absolutely wonderful I'm glad you're back listen you you were more of a natural than you realize I tell you that right now I loved the pod last week thank you uh for stepping in for me at such late notice Tom Gary I have to say your explanation of the WSL scheduling in the Guardian the other week was absolutely brilliant and I think explained a lot to a lot of people.
1:54Faye Carruthers:Bless you. That's very, very kind of you. Yeah, that's very nice indeed. It's a complicated thing, isn't it? Not as complicated as me trying to get my headphones to work, but you know, life goes on. One day we will do an outtakes. I've said this on many occasions before, we should have an outtakes pod because we're not friends with technology, are we? Sophie Downey is, to be fair. She's already done an interview today for us, which we'll hear later on in the pod.
2:20Tom Garry:How are you doing, Soph? I'm good, thank you. I'm finally back in the country in one place. It's been a bit of a manic weekend, I think. So a bit delirious, but I'll try and hold it together. I love watching your travels, always. I always find it funny when people say travails. I'm like, no, no, no, travel, like proper travels. No travails there. Right, let's get into it because There is so much to get into. A heartbreak for Arsenal on Saturday as Lyon reversed their first leg lead to book their spot in May's Champions League final. An opportunity for them to claim their ninth European title, by the way.
2:55First half goals from Wendy Renard and Cariato Diani put Arsenal on the back foot. Alessia Russo did manage to level the aggregate score, but an 86th minute finish from Euler Brand sent the French side through eventually. Tough afternoon really all round for Arsenal, Susie, despite coming in with a lead into the first leg, from the first leg even. Where do you feel the tie got away from them ultimately?
3:19Suzy Wrack:It's always going to be difficult. I thought in between the games that Lyon would look very different in the second leg, particularly with De Mournay expected back. I'd heard that she was precautionary rested in the first leg so that she would definitely be ready for the second one. and then having Selma Basch back as well, I think is a massive difference too. So where in the first leg, I thought the midfield looked a little bit disconnected from that front three. De Mornay in particular brings that cohesion between the two that I think makes a big difference. And then I also think, you know, when you look last season to this season, Jonathan Giraldes is a very good manager, is a very good tactically astute manager and very capable of figuring out the best way around teams.
4:04Suzy Wrack:And I think it was an uncharacteristic performance from Lyon in the first leg, particularly in the second half, and a bit more characteristic in this game. Arsenal a bit unlucky with, you know, the offside decision and things. But, like, Lyon were the better side across the game for me. Yeah, and actually you mentioned Mornay. She was the difference maker, really, winning the penalty, getting the assist as well for Eula Brown's winner. How did she manage to affect the game so well, Tom?
4:30Faye Carruthers:Oh, well, all three of the kind of front four attacking midfield wingers that Lyon had in De Mournay, Brandt and Diani were all immense. And De Mournay in particular had that kind of combination of pace and skill and trickery that Arsenal really couldn't contend with. It was a really good example of why many people believe De Mournay is the best player in the world right now. I really think that that is the case in my opinion too. I think if she played international football for a country that were winning silverware, she would have swept up at quite a few of the award ceremonies recently. And maybe if Lyon win the title this year, she might get the Ballon d 'Or with the Champions League.
5:13Faye Carruthers:But she really was the best player on the pitch. It's the combination of inventiveness and also the speed at which she does everything, I think just sets her apart right now. I thought she was just brilliant to watch. I was watching it next to Sophie and we were both, I think, in awe of her through ball for the winner. And then you think about the acceleration she had over about five yards to win the penalty to squeeze in between Fox and Vibamoy. There aren't many players who are that quick over five yards to get through that gap. And she somehow managed to do it. And those are just two examples of how brilliant she was on the day.
5:48Yeah, she was just unstoppable, wasn't she? Renee Slager has had lots of praise about her tactical acumen in the last 18 months. But what did you make of her decisions on the day in this game? I think it's really hard with Arsenal.
6:02Tom Garry:I think there was probably always going to come a time when their squad depth or lack thereof became an issue. And I think just the number of games that they've played this year finally came to a head. and things they just couldn't find a way through on the situation or a way to get around, you know, Lyon's very, very impressive performance. In terms tactically, just beyond the very nature of it, they have to rely on Mariano Caldente and Kim Little. And I think that's down to squad building on a longer term basis or lack of in terms of those areas. We know that there are potentially signings coming in that area in summer.
6:38Tom Garry:So that would be very, very good. But I think when you're thinking about trying to compete on as many competitions as they are, They really, really need to have more depth where they don't rely on Kim Little and Mariona Caldente to play almost every single game. Mariona looked shot to pieces in that first half. You could tell within 10 minutes that she just had nothing in her legs. And that's nothing on Mariona. It's just how much football she's played for club and country this season. And I think the break this summer is going to do her the world good. In terms of the substitutions, I thought it was really good to bring us Mila Humberg.
7:09Tom Garry:I think she showed in that game against Leicester how good she is, especially playing further forward. She was really impacting play. I think my biggest question was the decision after that was when I think it was Katie McCabe went off and I can't remember who the other one was, but it meant that Samila Homburg went to right back immediately after having had such a big impact of right wing on the goal. And it just seemed to take the sting out of the tail of Arsenal and kind of the momentum they had in terms of her driving runs down that side. So I think if Renee Selegas were to do it again, she might change that decision.
7:40Tom Garry:but all in all you know she's had such a successful 18 months at Arsenal as the manager she is still very very young there are going to be these situations where it doesn't go quite right for her and I think you could tell from afterwards how kind of almost resolute she was in trying to learn from it and build again for next year. Yeah well I mean that's always the mark of a great manager great leader isn't it to learn in these kind of situations and you mentioned Holmberg there. She did get the assist for Alessia Russo's goal and Arsenal did improve in bits of that second half when they turned to the bench and actually had players that could come on.
8:20But how excited as an Arsenal fan, Susie, are you and should other fans be about Smilla Holmberg's potential going forward for your club?
8:31Suzy Wrack:She's a hugely exciting talent, still young. So I think, you know, you can't, you don't want to overhype someone too soon but like clearly got bags of potential I was at the Leicester game and then in Renee's press conference afterwards she was like so praising of her talked about her having just finished school and gotten her driving license before she joined Arsenal and then she moves abroad to the European champions like it's uh it's a big uh big place to come a big stage to step into when you're so young and to perform the way she has done over the past two games is hugely impressive uh particularly when you're not playing a huge amount of football that's the thing right we always say players need chances to show what they can do and it's kind of on them to take it or not she's definitely taken a a chance to stake a claim for a regular starting point a starting slot at some point in the near future but yeah super talent and you know great that she can play numerous positions as well.
9:33Agree with Soph that when she moved further back,
9:37Suzy Wrack:then you've kind of lost her effectiveness up top, which can be a useful tactic in games that you're not chasing, but maybe not the best tactic in a game that you are chasing. But yeah, that versatility, I think, is what all managers are looking for, right? Players that can play in multiple different positions, particularly when squad sizes are fairly small. Need to talk about VAR, Tom. Tom, it did give the penalty when the referee waved the foul away. It then spotted the encroachment from Daphne van Domselaar for the first spot kick from Wendy Renard. And then after a very long check, confirmed the winner to Eula Brand as well.
10:11This is what Leo Williamson had to say. It's hard. I felt at the start of the game, the ball was in play for about two minutes in 20. With the rules, I don't think we're all on the same page with it. So it's frustrating. It was very stop start. I mean, look, it did its job, Tom, which is ultimately what it is there to do to get decisions factually correct. every call was right. But obviously the impact on the rhythm of the game can't have been particularly helpful from an Arsenal point of view, particularly when they were trying to get a foothold. So maybe it's not a perfect science and it's not used regularly enough to be in the women's game quite yet, but difficult at the moment.
10:51Faye Carruthers:Well, the winning goal took three minutes, 10 seconds for VAR to decide on and that felt way too long. And I just think the in-stadium experience was really poor in terms of the information that the spectators are receiving. Those of us in the crowd know we're getting very little information. We can't see what they're looking at. We're not getting an explanation from the referee like you might do in a World Cup. And that wait was very, very absurd. It was a very long amount of time. And I didn't understand why it took so long for an offside that was a yes or no decision. That was not a subjective thing.
11:29Faye Carruthers:That is, you're either offside or you're not. And that took a long time. As for the penalty, they've made the right decision, but I am confused about the implementation of VAR there because while I think they have made the right decision after looking at about nine different replays, I also don't think it was a clear and obvious error not giving the penalty in the first place. So I might have phrased that badly. No, I know what you mean, but there's a threshold, isn't there? And this is where the subjectivity still comes into play with VAR because what one person thinks is clear and obvious, another person doesn't.
12:05So, you know, there is still going to be that human error and human judgment that comes into it.
12:11Faye Carruthers:Agreed. It was one of those penalties where I think if they'd given the penalty, there's no way VAR should overturn it and not give the penalty. But having not given the penalty on the pitch, I'm a little bit surprised VAR were intervening in the sense that some of the replays were inconclusive as to eventually we got and they have made the right decision but I'm a little bit confused I thought they were only intervening when it was clear and obvious and it wasn't that clear and obvious until you saw about the ninth angle but I'm open to being criticized on that it might be a terrible take. Susie's shaking her head.
12:49Suzy Wrack:Oh no I completely agree with your take and And let's caveat this. I was watching it in a pub garden at my friend's wedding on my small iPhone screen. So, you know, my replays weren't great, but I just did not think it was a penalty. But that's just me. And I thought the winning goal was offside, but, you know.
13:12Tom Garry:I think it's something that needs to be really looked at, though, because if you remember in the game against Chelsea, the Villa Bermas disallowed goal and the implementation of that and the clear and obvious threshold was also another thing that came into question when they disallowed that goal and whether it was a clear or not obvious error. I thought it was the right decision on that day because where I thought the goal should have stood, VAR couldn't intervene because the referee had disallowed it and because there had been a touch it was not a clear or not obvious error And I think that was the same concept in this situation.
13:45Tom Garry:And I think when we get on to the next game as well, between Barcelona and Bayern Munich, the Pernille Harder goal was disallowed by VAR and VAR intervened when I don't think that was a clear and obvious error by the referee. I don't think it was a particularly forceful foul on Patrick Guillaume in the build-up. So I think then it does need to be some work, whether it's because it's with referees who don't use VAR that often because we don't have it, you know, across all of the women's game. Yeah. Or whether it's just like ironing out that kind of threshold of really understanding what a clear and obvious area is because it's meant to be in the hands of the referees still.
14:21Tom Garry:It's meant to be that official on the pitch. That's the whole point of it, deciding things. And only when, you know, in the most extreme circumstances that VAR should be getting involved. And I don't think that's happening at the moment. I think it's a combination of both, you know, that it isn't utilised consistently enough. you know even when it's utilized consistency you still struggle to get consistency again because it's humans operating the technology the offside one I you know I'm absolutely on board with but it's never going to be perfect but there is so much work being done behind the scenes I know I always say it but there is in in terms of minimizing you know the impact but I agree on the stadium experience and that's definitely something that's being being looked at but then of course you know when it's different competitions and different governing bodies looking after various things, there is no consistency in that manner.
15:12And we will get to that Penila Harder goal in a second. But first of all, I want to mention what's coming up for Arsenal, because I think it was you, Sophie, said that they looked pretty short on energy. And, you know, Caldente and Kim Little in particular looked out on their legs. They have played a lot of football this year and they've still got four really big games left this season. So how do they get themselves back up and running for this final two weeks? Because they're so far behind on everybody else. They've got three games in hand in the WSL. They start against Brighton on Wednesday.
15:46They only need three points in order to confirm Champions League football for next year. But, you know, three points seems like a lot when you're absolutely shattered.
15:55Tom Garry:Yeah, I think it's special when you have a disappointment like that. I think they were so wanting to get to back-to-back Champions League finals, right? So the emotional toll is as much as the physical toll on these players who've played a lot of football and had a lot of success in 2026, but still, it's just going to be fatiguing. I think it's about, you know, just taking one, it's a cliche, right? One game at a time, building yourself up bit by bit, remembering it's only two weeks left to go, and then you're basically on holiday for a little bit. So it's very, you know, it's quite a short countdown to the very end, and they've got still so much to play for, right?
16:28Tom Garry:I know we'll go on to this, but City won at the weekend. But if they can win these three games in the next week, then they're still very much in with a shout on the final day. A disaster could happen for Man City at West Ham. It might be unlikely, but it could happen. And so they need to put themselves in the best position to be able to pounce.
16:47Faye Carruthers:Can I say one thing? If Arsenal, having been in Lyon at the weekend, go away to Brighton on Wednesday night and then away to Aston Villa on Saturday lunchtime and win both of those away games, I will be so impressed because that is a brutal away schedule three away games and they have to win them both to stay in the title race given how well Brighton are playing and given that they lost to Aston Villa last season and those are both away from home Wednesday, Saturday that's a big, big ask for any team so if they're still in the title race this time next week I will take my health to Arsenal because that is really hard
17:22Tom Garry:I think I would add I think Tim said it last week didn't he about the scheduling and I know you wrote a really good piece on the scheduling problems and the whole process behind it this week Tom but I do think that Leicester game should have been put at another time and I understand how clogged the schedule is but that Leicester game was never going to be able to be played at that time of year as Tim said last last week and it's just created this ridiculous schedule for Arsenal where they're playing every three days they've now got three long away trips in a row in a really decisive time of year and it's not helping teams in Europe that's for sure it's not helping Arsenal in Europe but it's also just putting so much pressure on surely what was an avoidable situation yeah well we're going to discuss the WSL and what happened at the weekend in part two but let's finish off with our Champions League chat because the second semi-final concluded on Sunday with Barcelona overpowering Bayern Munich at Camp Nou beating the German outfit 4-2 in the end I mean They ran away with it in terms of the scoreline, Susie, but did Bayern maybe give them more of a test than many of us expected, particularly in the second half?
18:32We talked about Penelaharda's goal, perhaps dubiously disallowed by VAR, that would have made for a tricky final few minutes. But what did you make of it?
18:43Suzy Wrack:People probably expected a Barcelona win, but I also think that Bayern Munich aren't a team that people necessarily underestimate anymore. They've had some really big results in the last year or two that have shown that they can compete with the best in Europe, in the world. And they were very, very difficult to beat in this game. I think they had a few really, really good chances late on that could have closed the margin a little bit more. Penelaharda's goal being disallowed by VAR just felt very, very harsh in my view. And I'm not sure that VAR should have been intervening in that situation.
19:19Suzy Wrack:and they put up a really good fight towards the end. Some chaotic defending, not clearing the ball for Pateas' first, I think was a low point, but they're a very, very strong side and when Penelaharda's in a team and battling the way she battles, I think they're always going to have a chance and the fact that she pulls that goal back in the 71st minute, was it, is a testament to the drive that she's got, But I think they maybe could have and will be rueing that they didn't do quite a bit more in that game, given the sort of small spells in attack that they had that were really exciting. It was always an uphill battle, though, wasn't it?
20:01Because this is a sixth consecutive European final for Barcelona, which is some feat. That's the longest streak in the competition's history. And it's just incredible, that kind of dominance. We've obviously seen the amount of times that Lyon have won it in eight, but Barcelona over recent times, that's incredible, that stat.
20:20Faye Carruthers:Yeah, and sold out Camp Nou again, which is becoming so normalised for them as well now. I think that they are certainly in that six-year period and certainly probably the last sort of seven-year period, they're the dominant force, aren't they, in Europe? And there's no imminent signs of that slowing down. I thought that 60 ,000 crowd were treated to such great entertainment, weren't they? Whether it was the just sort of speed and movement of the Barcelona players with and without the ball or whether it was Pateres hooking it over her shoulder with the kind of acrobatic finish for the fourth or the way these Barcelona players clearly love playing the game and playing it in such an exciting way that that must have been such a privilege to be a Barcelona fan watching that.
21:08Faye Carruthers:And the implication is that if it had been full capacity available at the Camp Nou with the renovations, that they might have been able to sell out the whole thing, which is 100 ,000, which is extraordinary. So they are setting new levels for kind of on pitch and that off pitch to a degree, you know, at the moment. And they would be worthy champions, I think, if they could go all the way in Oslo. Yeah, which is the 23rd of May, by the way. And I mean, these two have had some brilliant encounters over the years. So this is the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. I want no fence sitting at all. What are your early feelings about which way it's going to go?
Read the full transcript
21:47Tom Garry:I will have to call Barcelona I think they just find a way and I think yeah just the way there's a lot for that team to play for I think not that there isn't for Lyon but I think there's a lot of rumours around the future of Alexia Puteis I think her contract is up in the summer in terms of what happens with her whether she decides to move on she was very emotional let's say at the end of the pitch she was in tears at Camp Nou and they've got Itanabo and Mati back who will be wanting to prove a point after spending a lot of the season sidelined with injury. Should probably still win the Ballon d 'Or.
22:27Yeah, probably.
22:28Tom Garry:But yeah, I just see their strength. I think Lyon might test them as they have done before but I think eventually Barcelona just had too much quality in the tank to come out on top. Okay, so bearing in mind our predictions, Congratulations to Lyon in advance for their ninth title. Right, that's it for part one. In part two, we'll catch up on the final day in Barclays WSL 2. We'll speak to Birmingham City Manager Amy Merricks on her side's title win. And we'll look at the other domestic action from a very, very busy weekend. I'm Kai Wright. I'm Kai Sherman.
23:06Suzy Wrack:And we are here to tell you about our new show, which is rooted in this feeling that at least I have. I know you have where, you know, it's kind of like when you wake up in the morning and you pick up your phone and you're just hit in the face with a fire hose of news, right? There's war. There's authoritarianism. Our planet is burning. I could go on and on and on. And on and on and on. But like we're trying to figure out how to manage it, right? Like how do you manage it? I manage it by leaning in and trying to learn more and trying to figure out, OK, how can I be smarter about this particular topic?
23:40Suzy Wrack:And who can I talk to that's going to make me feel better about it? And who can tell me who's responsible for the mess that I'm reading about? So that's our mission. That's the show. Welcome to Stateside with Kai and Carter. We're a new show from The Guardian. We're talking to big thinkers and the best journalists, just trying to understand the world through smart conversation and honest reporting. We don't have billionaires telling us what to say. Stateside with Kai and Carter will come out three times a week, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, starting May 13th. Follow on Apple Podcasts or catch us wherever you watch or listen.
24:43Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. OK, so Barclays WSL2 came to a dramatic conclusion on Saturday. Birmingham City prevailed to lift the title and secure promotion with a 2-0 win over Charlton. Crystal Palace secured the second automatic playoff spot with a 6-1 win over already relegated Portsmouth. That means that Charlton are now going to play in the playoff against Leicester for the final WSL spot on the 23rd of May. We'll start with Birmingham, though. Susie and producer Soph caught up with Amy Merricks earlier on to talk through that intense final day and speak about her title-winning team.
25:20Suzy Wrack:So, Amy, massive congratulations. I can imagine it's been a bit of a whirlwind weekend. How do you reflect on everything that's happened? I don't think it's kind of settled in, if you like, just yet. I mean, I keep just looking back at the videos and the pictures and it's just an amazing moment when that full-time whistle went. I'm just incredibly proud of all the staff and all the players and to go from missing out and being so close last year to being able to bounce back. I don't think a lot of teams do that in that fashion, if you like. And it certainly wasn't perfect, but we got it done. And I'm just so pleased that we got the top spot as well because I think that's a real statement.
26:00Tom Garry:I was going to ask about that because after last year, the heartbreak I guess there's a bit of a lot of mental stuff that you have to get through with the team as well and in kind of preparation for that to try and get over it so how were you able to to kind of climb that mountain and get to the other side? Absolutely and it wasn't just missing out one year this is actually a club that for the past four seasons have unfortunately just missed out and I actually think that carries a bit of weight on the shirt for the players so we have a core group of players that actually before preseason they even started um I called them the OGs pulled them together and you know what do we need to do how are we going to go go about it and we set out some really key markers that we thought would be important as as a team the players did that they led that and funnily enough two of those key markers were why we got to the position we did one was bouncing back after dropping points to wins and I think it was only one occasion we didn't do that every other occasion we did we bounced back to a win and And the other one was goal difference.
26:58And both those things got us over the line. So I thought it was really nice. They led it. I think getting success has to come from your playing group, really having a leading role to play. And I'm really fortunate that we have such a fantastic group. They're very close. So, yeah, I mean, that's a very long answer. But I do think the shirt carried a bit away because of the, unfortunately, being so close for so long. But we managed to get it done and we're back where we belong.
27:22Suzy Wrack:The WSL 2 is always a bit of a wild ride. I had so many ups and downs. At what point did you really start to believe that it was going to be your year, that things were starting to kind of fall your way? I believed all along. Before we'd even kicked the ball in the season, I had full belief. And people don't believe me when I say that, but you can ask the players. I mean, Kate, we returned in January after Christmas and Cholton had a nine-point gap. I said we're in a perfect position because we get to chase, we get to hunt. I think if you look at the statistics over the years those that have held top position for a period of time generally don't hold on to it that was us last season so I actually think there's something in the concept of chasing and hunting and look at Crystal Palace same goes for them right I fully believed and I'm just so pleased that we got the top spot because I don't think I could accept second even though that was automatic promotion so albeit by four goals who cares but yeah full belief I knew that we were capable I knew that we had what we needed and it was never going to be perfect because that's not what this league is about the WSL2 is a brutal league to get out of and we had some really tough results and not to mention against Ipswich the week before I mean they were fighting for their lives and they were exceptional in that 10 minute spell and that was a mountain to come back from I was going to say I'm glad you you
28:44Tom Garry:believe because I did actually predict and we always do like predictions every year and I did say Birmingham to go up and then you were getting me a bit worried there for a little bit but you came through for me right in the end to prove me right as you said you've got some OGs in your playing squad and I know it probably I could see kind of the emotion on their faces on the faces of like Christy Harris and Murray and and players like that who've stuck with you through it all and I guess since when you came in as well you know being there as a foundation to you trying this rebuild around how important have those players been been for you oh so so important I actually I rang Christy this morning because I actually haven't had a chance to speak to her properly not only because I mean she couldn't speak in the in the party afterwards because she was just running around I think just that relief for everyone was huge but you know I just said to her thank you so much there's no way this team would have got over the line without her leadership and I think there's a lot that she does with me as well in supporting me and the team and there's a lot that she does that I don't see she is an incredible person and I'm so pleased that for her not only we got it done but you know in our new gym she is front and center of it and she exactly where she should be and it was nice also to have the likes of Louise Quinn there at a game and the girls took the trophy over to her and she's again someone else that has just lived through it all and I think you can see the players are putting up posts and a lot of the captions are we finally did it because we just had to get it over line um and we did but yeah honestly Christy deserves all the plaudit she's an exceptional leader she's going to be an exceptional head coach I've already said to hope she'll be an exceptional successor one day yeah incredible incredible person and player how do you feel personally about uh your own
30:34Suzy Wrack:development as a coach I mean you've done this in your second year as a manager you must feel very, very proud. I don't know what to say to that because I haven't thought about it yet, but be really honest, I got my laptop out today after a couple of days of partying and I'm like, oh, okay, right, what's next? I've made it really clear that this has never been and should never be about me. This club has my heart, it really has. I don't know what to say to make that even clearer. I've fallen in love with the club, the ambition it has, and I was just so, so, so clear on taking this club back to where it belongs, especially the heartbreaker last season.
31:12And the first thing I did when that final whistle went on Saturday was run over to the fans because I think we just all felt it, the pure emotion of finally being able to get this club back to where it belongs. And I'm going to be really honest, the real work starts now. The real work starts now. That was effectively, it wasn't easy, but that was effectively the easy bit. We all know the WSL. Fortunately, I have experience of it, but it's also changed and developed. So, yeah, the real work starts now. And I'm really looking forward to the challenge of making sure we sustain WSL status.
31:43Tom Garry:For sure. And I think it speaks a lot that both you and Joe Potter are the two managers that have, you know, got teams promoted this year. And I guess what does that tell you about the importance of giving young female managers, you know, these opportunities to manage at the top and to show you what they can achieve? It's something I'm very passionate about. I know that I've spoken about this a lot. To be able to create more and better female coaches at the elite level or the English game, they need to be able to see people doing it. And I take that very seriously that I am effectively, hopefully, opening doors to others.
32:18So the product that my team produces, showcases the work that we do is critical in making sure that we are opening that door. I take that very seriously. Joe Potter is an exceptional manager. They beat us twice credibly as well. I'm not looking forward to playing them again. Actually, yes, I am. We need to put it right. But look, to have two female English coaches in the WSL, I think is critical to this country. And the female coaches aspiring to get there. And there's several projects. The Powerhouse Project's been doing a phenomenal job. But unfortunately, female coaches get to a point and then they drop off.
32:53And the real reason for that is lack of opportunity. Lack of opportunity. so we have to keep knocking down that door I will continue to be vocal about it but most importantly I'll make sure I do a good job so that hopefully that opens more doors for others
33:07Suzy Wrack:it's so important that clubs and boardrooms and stuff take a chance on people it's just so critical you said that you've got your laptop out already what does the summer look like for you now I imagine it's going to be a very busy time for the football club yeah yeah very busy the work doesn't stop obviously we're in a period now where recruitment started I'll be honest you you try and work two windows in advance I think I think the best clubs do that we have fantastic backroom team obviously we have hope out at the forefront of it driving it she doesn't rest I don't think that woman doesn't sleep I think she's incredible she she always builds she knows exactly what she wants she's only just getting started at this club as well so laptops out because it's a recognition of great, we've done it, but we have an ocean that we've got to swim before the season starts to make sure we're in the best position to do exactly what we need to do.
34:01I don't want to give away too much, but obviously we have player recruitment, we have staff recruitment, we have pre-season building plans. I think the best thing is, and I'll be really honest with this, elite sport has a funny way of allowing you the successes when it knows you're ready, and we are so ready for this. We have a fantastic platform of work that we've done this season. Last season, we were in a good position, but to be completely WSL ready, I'm not sure. I think we've shown this year with our performances against Villa, Man City. Physically, we're totally there. Technically, tactically, we're still striving.
34:33We're building. We've got a good platform. We're so ready for this. So yeah, the laptop's out and there's a lot of work to do, but it's good work. I don't feel like we're building from the ground up. We've got a fantastic foundation. and hopefully you get some sort of holiday in there as well fingers crossed I forgot to mention that that's the most important bit no yeah and actually I had a few a few coaches message me that have had fantastic careers you know like Seriane Skinner that's full of experience and I haven't experienced this yet this is the first time and she was like Amy you need to rest so yes I will be doing that I will be doing that hopefully I get my voice back properly as well
35:16Suzy Wrack:Awesome. Thank you so much for joining us and congratulations again and good luck with the rest, which is sometimes the harder part and the preparations for the new season. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you so much. I think we can all take a lesson from that. We all need a rest after this season. I will not be getting one, but hopefully you guys will in mid-June. Clearly, she was absolutely delighted. Massive task to rebuild after relegation four years ago. And she's been absolutely fantastic. Let's touch on Palace as well, Tom. Really hard to bounce straight back up after the disappointment of last year's WSL campaign.
35:55But what have you made of the job that Joe Potter's done? And are they going to be a little bit more prepared for the top flight, do you think, this time round?
36:02Faye Carruthers:Yeah, I do think they're coming back stronger. They're the best team I've seen in this league this season. They've not won the title because they had a very slow start. But since mid-November, once they began to find their feet, they've won 12 of their last 14 matches, which is a storming run to come through and get second, coming from absolutely nowhere at Christmas to get second. And that's because they've just been so good since the turn of the year and particularly since they started getting a run of wins together. They won at home against Birmingham in December 3-0. and I think that really set the standard that they kept for most of the rest of the season.
36:37Faye Carruthers:Yeah, 12 wins in 14 is extraordinary. I think they signed really well in January with players like Hayley Ladd coming in, adding a lot of really good experience. And they kept a lot of the strong players in from last year as well. So they are coming back up, hopefully better equipped than when they came up last time. They've got goals coming from more areas of the pitch this time as well. They seem a little bit more versatile than they were 36 months ago. and this time they're going to have a slightly added advantage in that there'll be more chances to avoid relegation next year than they were last time in a sense that next year there'll be one automatic relegation spot and the playoff but you know finishing second bottom doesn't guarantee you're going down and you know of the teams that we would expect to be down there some people are going to stay up which I think when Palace were in the top flight last time they were very isolated as the bottom side and this, I think, should be a lot more competitive next year.
37:37Faye Carruthers:So really wishing them well and yeah, Joe Potter's done a great job, which is encouraging to see for young manager getting a chance like that and taking them up under pressure. So well done to Joe. Yeah, we need to mention Charlton Soph. Absolutely gutting for the Addicts. Just one win in seven now and just a reminder for everyone, there were nine points ahead in mid-March and really storming towards the title. Karen Hills has a proper challenge on her hands to get them ready for that playoff against Leicester, doesn't she?
38:09Tom Garry:Yeah, it's going to be a monumental task because I know Leicester have been in a poor run of form recently, but I just think when you have let that kind of lead slip, the psychological side to it is huge, right? And you can see on the pitch at the end how devastated some of those players were. They were inconsolable. Two weeks, three weeks is a very short space of time Leicester is still playing football as well. They've got the last game of the season, so there'll be some kind of rhythm, at least in terms of playing matches and games. Yeah, I would think it's almost impossible at this point in time.
38:44Tom Garry:And maybe she can work magic in the next two weeks, three weeks, and really get them back on track. They have a really good defensive record, and that's what they will use as their foundations. But they're not particularly strong in attack, and I think their propensity to lose momentum in games and lose late as well has served them badly in these last three months or so in terms of that. So yeah, I think for me at the moment, Leicester are probably looking the most likely of the two. And that's not because I think Leicester are playing brilliantly, but I just think in the goal that they scored at the weekend, in the little moments that they can take from these last few weeks and the rhythm that they can maybe build from that, they're probably going into that game in the best possible position if you're thinking about two bad momentums.
39:26Although nothing is impossible. you know if she can pick those players up and they were so close they know they were so close they've got another opportunity that does not come around very often so you know hopefully it'll be a competitive game and both sides can show what we know that they're both capable of and may the best team win we'll obviously preview that when it comes around to it quickly wrap up the Barclays WSL plenty of action on the penultimate match day drama at the Joy Stadium as well Manchester City got a last gasp victory over Liverpool. Rebecca Knack scoring in the 91st minute to put City two points from the title.
40:05It wasn't pretty, Susie, but that's what champions are made of ultimately. They just are able to find a way.
40:11Suzy Wrack:Yeah, I'm launching a campaign for Rebecca Knack to have the nickname Salmon because that is what she looked like when she sort of dove like horizontal to get to her head on that ball. It was really interesting because I would say there was a spell of time between the 75th and 85th minute where Liverpool had quite a lot of chances. And at each time they weren't able to get on target or off the woodwork or wherever it may be. You just thought this has a late city winner in it. It just felt like it was coming. Lauren Hemp was so brilliant in that game. Bunny Shaw should have scored multiple times.
40:54Suzy Wrack:And it just felt like eventually something could give. And it was kind of heartbreaking to see Jennifer Falk sort of not kind of have her best moment in conceding the goal. Literally moments before she had made an absolutely fantastic stop. And she was, I thought, really, really excellent throughout that game. Life of a goalkeeper. Hero to zero. Horrible. it was an impressive Liverpool performance but yeah I mean there was just no way City were going to let that reach the final whistle without having put the ball in the back of the net it just I felt like watching it that they were going to get that goal at some point that it came literally at the death Jägerlerts even said it he aged five years in that game it probably aged quite a few City fans as well but it just felt like it was coming for me and that I think that is the mark of champions that you feel like it's never done.
41:48Prime Ministers and football managers. You can just watch them age in the shortest amount of time. Sam Kerr became Chelsea all-time WSL top goal scorer, helping them to a 3-1 victory over Leicester. That result also secured them European qualification as well, which must be a huge relief for Sonia Bonpastor to wrap it up, particularly because their final day game is against Manchester United.
42:14Tom Garry:So, yeah, she'll be very pleased. And in terms of thinking about the rebuild that's probably going to happen over the summer and stuff, having Champions League football or at least qualifying or Champions League football, we don't know that yet. But that option there is going to be a big pool, I think, for players to come to the club. It's a good addition to have on top of everything else that Chelsea women can offer a player. And just big up to Sam Kerr because her contract is also up in a couple of weeks' time. She has had a remarkable career at Chelsea. maybe they'll decide to keep her on I don't know but it has been heavily rumoured that she'll be heading towards the NWSL and this will be the end of her time in the WSL and just I think just so pleasing for a player who's had so much to get through in the last two and a half years or so right in terms of fighting that injury fighting the injury from injury getting back to full fitness not being favoured in the starting 11 for a lot of the even when she was fit for a lot of this year and basically went away with Australia to the Asian Cup, played back-to-back 90s minutes and has not looked back ever since and scored, what, three and four or four and five or something like that.
43:20Tom Garry:The stats are there to show that she's still one of the best number nines in the world. So she's making a statement, I think, about that she's very much not over yet, not done. It's not the end of Sam Kerr. No, it most definitely isn't. Yeah, elsewhere, Manchester United salvaged a draw at home to Brighton thanks to a late equaliser from Leah Shuler. Tottenham Hotspur secured their highest ever points tally with a 2-1 win over London City Lionesses. There was a fond farewell from the home fans for Bethany England, Kit Graham, Amy James-Turner, Luana Bula, Josephine Rybrink and Charlotte Grant who'll all be leaving the club at the end of the season.
43:58Talking about rebuilds, certainly one going on at Spurs. Finally, West Ham scored two late goals to earn three points away against Aston Villa. In the FA Women's National League, the playoffs, Wolves have secured promotion to Barclays WSL2. Dan McNamara's side earned a 1-0 victory in the playoff game against Plymouth Argyle thanks to a goal from Charlotte Greengrass. Congratulations to them. Quite the journey as well to reach this point for Wolves. Tom, you were at the Pirelli yesterday. How was it?
44:27Faye Carruthers:Oh, it was tense, Faye. It was really, really tense. And Wolves' celebrations were hugely joyous and emotional, really. Good crowd as well, around 2 ,000 people there. So for those who don't know, last year, of course, Wolves were really in the mix of promotion, but the club didn't apply for the license. This year, there's been a much more progressive approach from the football club. The chairman, Nathan Shee, was actually there yesterday watching on and supporting the team. And this year, they did put in the license, and they've been accepted, and they've managed to get promotion. The players in the squad, they've only lost two league matches in total in the last two years.
45:03Faye Carruthers:So it's been coming. They nearly got promoted four years ago when they lost the playoff to Southampton in 2022. They only lost 1-0 in that year. They only lost one league game as well. So they've been close several times. And it just felt like it was kind of their turn yesterday. Their goalkeeper, Alex Brooks, had a phenomenal game. And Plymouth were very unfortunate not to win, actually. I would argue that Plymouth had by far the better chances. But in the end, a mistake at the back for Plymouth allowed Charlotte Greengrass to score the winner. And the place went wild. And I think it just felt as though Wolves had, as Dan Manamara himself, the head coach, said, you know, they probably got the rub of the green yesterday, but maybe it was their turn to get the rub of the green after several years of near misses.
45:49Yeah, absolutely. And congratulations to them as well as to Boldmere St. Michael's and Norwich City, who played in the other two playoff games. They both won to secure their promotion to the FA Women's National League Premier. So pretty much most things are wrapped up and we will find out how the Barkers WSL finishes. We're expecting the title to go to Manchester City, but I'm sure Susie's Arsenal are going to have something to say about that. And I don't feel as if the drama is yet over. Congratulations to everyone. Well, I mean, we got through it. How did we get through that? We actually got through that relatively quickly, bearing in mind the amount we had to do.
46:28Tom, it was lovely to see you as always. Lovely to see you, mate. Chat soon. Sophie lovely to see you as always brilliant to be back on see you soon Susie Rack still need to get that coffee in the time
46:39Suzy Wrack:we really do I know it's so ridiculous this is getting embarrassing to be fair you've been busy we've been busy it's the end of the season but we do need to be better we must be better anyway keep having your say send in your questions via X I'm sorry we didn't get round to to them this week but we will have plenty more time before the season ends you can send them in via X or email us at women'sfootballweekly at theguardian.com this is your regular reminder to sign up for our bi-weekly women's football newsletter all you need to do is search moving the goalposts sign up the Guardian Women's Football Weekly is produced by Sophie Downey and Silas Gray music composition was by Laura Iredell our executive producer is Joel Grove
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From the publisher
Faye Carruthers is joined by Suzy Wrack, Tom Garry and Sophie Downey to discuss Arsenal’s Champions League exit and speak with Birmingham City’s head coach, Amy Merricks