Brighton and Manchester City book Wembley spots after FA Cup drama – Women’s Football Weekly podcast

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:15Hello, I'm Faye Carruthers and welcome to The Guardian Women's Football Weekly. What an FA Cup weekend we had. Congratulations to Brighton and to Manchester City, who both came from behind to book themselves a place at Wembley for the final. Bunny Shaw scored twice against Chelsea in the week rumours circulated that she was leaving City with Stamford Bridge looking like her preferred destination. That was all after Manchester City were confirmed Barclays WSL champions midweek after Arsenal's draw with Brighton. Football, you cannot write it sometimes. We'll catch you up on everything from the past week, plus we'll take your questions.

0:49And that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly.

0:57What a panel we have today. Susie Rack, I'm just going to have to out you, I'm afraid. But duck, I oversleeped was pretty much my favourite message of this morning.

1:07Suzy Wrack:Is that what I wrote? I haven't looked at it. I've got no recollection of actually writing it. Yeah, it amused me greatly. Aisha Gulati, you are my pharmacist. I'm coming to take some hay fever tablets from you later. How are you? Oh, all good. Thank you, Faye. Yeah, we're all in this together on the hay fever struggle. Yeah, well, if I sound like I have a peg on my nose, I am suffering. For those of you who aren't in the UK and are listening and don't have to deal with the hay fever nightmare that this country brings once a year for certain people, then lucky you. Amy Ruschke, how are you? Good, thank you.

1:38I feel like I've just listened to a sponsored hay fever ad. Hey, listen, no brand names were mentioned. Now, were you not entertained? Football fans were served up a treat on Sunday afternoon. It was one of the most dramatic semi-final days in the history of the Women's FA Cup. Ten goals scored across both games. We're going to start in London as Chelsea hosted newly crowned WSL champions Manchester City. Chelsea had looked destined for another FA Cup final appearance after taking a 2-0 lead. But goals in the 86th and the 91st minutes saw City draw level. And then Bunny Shaw scored her second to send her side through after extra time.

2:18It was an absolutely cracking encounter, Susie, wasn't it? You were at Stamford Bridge. How exactly did they manage to turn the game on its head? I mean, it was surprising, wasn't it?

2:26Suzy Wrack:Like Chelsea completely collapsed, throwing away a two-goal lead with four minutes to play. That's a lot of soul-searching they need to do. I think the substitutes around the sort of 70th, 80th minute played their part in that Sonia Bonpastor swapped out Boerman for Lucy Bronze. Then you had Wright and Canerid coming on for Alyssa Thompson. a bit later Sam Kerr came off for Agui Beaver Jones like this was all before we got to extra time it was when Chelsea were leading thinking that they're going to a final right so then those players come off it rocks things a little bit City get the momentum in the bit between their teeth and Chelsea don't really have the players to come back into it I think I think that is part of the problem particularly Lucy Bronze coming on she really struggled against Bunny Shaw when Berman had been doing a pretty decent job up to that point.

3:21Suzy Wrack:So I think that was a kiki turning point, but a really, really tough way to go out. And the sort of change of plans personnel-wise when they had a lead just cost them. Yeah, it did. Let's focus on Manchester City, bearing in mind that they won Ayesha. An incredible week for them, securing their first league title for a decade. We will talk about that success in part two of the pod, but could that maybe have contributed to their slow start to the game? You're suggesting they might have had some hangovers or something? I think it's very possible. They were deservedly celebrating midweek. I know it wasn't the full celebrations but of course that sort of euphoria is going to have an impact on it because that was the thing that they really, really wanted this season.

4:12So yeah, they did have a slow start but credit to Chelsea. see. They really took the reins in that tie in one that I think we thought was going to be a bit more evenly matched in that first half. But yeah, I think the way they got back into it, it was a tale of two teams and two different types of substitutes, I think. We mentioned there, Susie mentioned that the Bon Pastor subs didn't quite do the trick. They kind of came in at the wrong time in terms of they hadn't got over the line and it felt like the subs were suggesting they had. On the flip side, Andre Jäglertz, he brought on some really impactful players.

4:48I think a shout out to Amman Beeney, a young Swiss player at Man City who they signed last summer. I actually spoke to her ahead of the season and I said to her, what are you hoping to get this season? She said, oh, just a few minutes. But she's been really pivotal in key moments. The match that they won against Arsenal at the end of last year comes to mind. And she provided those two assists to get them level at Stamford Bridge. And it was just that desire to just find that moment. Bunny Shaw hadn't been great until she scored, to be quite honest. She fired over the crossbar quite a few times.

5:25She just wasn't at her best. But I guess that's just what it is. Those big player moments find the moments in the times when it matters most. And there was just that feeling that something was going to happen and it wasn't quite over. And especially after that first goal went in, it felt, okay, City really have this momentum. You could just see that equaliser going in, especially as Susie said, Lucy Bronze was struggling a bit at the back with Bunny Shaw. And I spoke to Erin Cuthbert in the mix zone after, and she was very, you know, very gracious in defeat. But something she called out about Man City was they have found in these moments, every season ways of either holding on to their lead or getting back into the game when they weren't.

6:07And that was something that Chelsea just haven't been able to do this season in a way that they just have in previous years. So a lot of rebuilding to be done from a Chelsea perspective, but credit to Man City deservedly in a final and have a shot at that domestic double. Where did it all go wrong, do you think, Amy? Chelsea outcreated, outpossessed City. There were some questionable refereeing decisions and the tactical choices that Susie's mentioned already from Sonia Bonpastor as well. But what exactly do you put it down to? I think the Berman sub, like Susie said, was a massive one. I thought she did a really good job.

6:42I was speaking to Catherine's next minute and I was like, that's going to be so interesting to see how Berman deals with when he's shot this game. And she was so good. And then when they made the sub, I thought she must be carrying a knock or maybe she's on limited minutes or something. And I asked Sonia about it after and she was explaining that basically because they'd moved Carolyn, Man City had moved Carolyn Central, they wanted to deal with that threat and they thought that putting Lucy Bronze on would help deal with Carolyn Central, which is great, but Lucy Bronze couldn't then deal with Buddy Shaw, which was kind of the thing that led to the turnaround.

7:20Obviously, there were other factors in it. I mean, the third goal is such a sloppy one for Chelsea to give away and things like that, but they can be aggrieved, I think, at some of the decisions on the replays it looked like the header that Kerr scored early on Carpenters cross it looked like she kept the ball in but I think Bonpastor put it well in a presser when she said like I can't complain about decisions because that's not why we didn't win like you 2-0 up in the 86th minute you've got to see that out and it kind of feels like a summary of Chelsea this season like last season they would have seen that out the season before the season before the season before this season they just haven't had that that in fine margins they just haven't been able to grind out the wins as prolifically as they have done in years past.

8:03That's one big thing and an intangible thing that they've got to solve this summer. Yeah, we've mentioned Bunny Shaw a few times, but she did dominate the headlines before the game had even kicked off. Potential move to Chelsea on the cards. We've been talking about her future all season with her contract running out this summer. She then went on and scored twice to send her team through to the final. And look, we know what football's like. I mentioned in the intro that you couldn't write it, but actually these kind of narratives crop up quite often, Susie, don't they? What do you make of the whole situation?

8:33Suzy Wrack:Yeah, very helpful from a writing point of view when you're covering a match and you're searching for the narratives to write about. No, it's wild, isn't it? I mean, the idea that City are letting Bunny Shaw leave this summer on a free when, you know, she's arguably the best striker in the world, hasn't received enough recognition for the big individual awards, in my opinion, obviously, partly because she plays for Jamaica, so doesn't kind of stand out in the major tournaments, in reaching finals and things like that. So, you know, that's a real shame. And she's someone that doesn't get enough recognition in that respect.

9:13Suzy Wrack:But the fact that she's, you know, finishing top scorer again, that even a half-fit Bunny Shaw, who plays 50 % of the games last season, finishes top joint top scorer Valessia Russo like it's such a massive loss to be able to have her leave your team and not fight for her as hard as I don't think they've been fighting so that's massive and if she goes to Chelsea who clearly want her as should any team on the planet then that's a huge shift in momentum for Chelsea who have struggled in that area with injured players. You know, Myra Ramirez has been out pretty much all season. Sam Kerr has only just sort of started to get back from injury but is probably leaving.

10:05Suzy Wrack:Agui Beaver-Jones has been on off form-wise and injury issues too. So, you know, they really need a good, solid, uninjured centre forwards. But even in, sure, like I say, you get a forward who even if she is injured is going to get you enough goals. Who City bring in is going to be the big question if she does go. And I don't know who that will be. But it's just a massive, massive, massive loss. I don't know what that does to their momentum. Yeah. In terms of momentum and confidence, what about Kiara Keating at the other end of the pitch, Aisha? because she had a rare start in goal. An interesting afternoon, I think it's fair to say, contrasting fortunes because she was at fault in the build-up to Sam Kerr's goal, but then made a stunning save to deny Shukhanushkin in the final minute.

10:51It's been quite a frustrating season for her, hasn't it? But how much could this help her confidence? Yeah, as you mentioned, she had a few differing moments, some ones she'll want to forget and some ones she'll definitely want to remember. I mean, the way she tipped over Nuskin's header in the dying minutes of the game. I mean, that's match winning. It's just as important as Bunny Shaw's winner. And her team were really, you know, jumping on her, loving her. It was nice to see Yamashita like, you know, running up to her and just giving her all the praise that she rightly deserved for that moment.

11:28But yeah, you're right. It's an interesting one. I think last year there was a bit more rotation of almost kind of trying to figure out who wasn't going to be number one. This year it has definitely been, you know, not Chiara Keating's spot there. So it was interesting because you kind of got England's number one and two at the end of the pitch at the weekend. And both made errors. Both had good moments. But yeah, I think Chiara Keating should take a lot of confidence because the fact that Andre Egler still wanted to, you know, use the cup goalkeeper in that important semifinal and that she was able to produce that match winning moment.

12:02Yeah, props to her. You know, she's still fairly young, still got so long to go. And being part of a WSL winning team, potentially an FA Cup winning team, it's going to do absolute wonders for her confidence, especially as she's been a big part of the FA Cup run. Yeah, without a doubt. So, I mean, they've won the FA Cup three times, Manchester City, but this is going to be their first appearance at the Wembley final since 2022. They're going in as favourite, Susie, as you would expect. We'll talk about the second semifinal in a second, but it's a massive chance to cap off their season in style doing a domestic double.

12:35Suzy Wrack:Yeah, huge. I mean, I think, you know, they would have been happy with the league title alone after, you know, 10 years without it. But the opportunity to stamp their dominance, I think, on English football this season is a big one. Like they've had pretty much a clear run at the league without having Champions League football to contend with and things as well. So there's been the pressure on them to step up domestically. And I think that if they were walking away from this game with Chelsea having got to the FA Cup final and potentially going on to win it, Chelsea having the two domestic cups and City having a league, then it wouldn't quite be the same as the narrative will be if they clinch a double.

13:19Suzy Wrack:It's not quite the unseating of Chelsea that maybe they would have liked, particularly in a season where Chelsea aren't doing particularly well and are struggling a little bit. So I think that would have been felt a little bit. So hugely significant to be in the FA Cup final. But I wouldn't write it off Brighton, would you? You just wouldn't write off Brighton? Well, no. And the reason you wouldn't write off Brighton is because the first game of the weekend was an equal spectacle to that second game. Brighton made history by booking their spot in their first ever FA Cup final. It finished Liverpool 2, Brighton 3 in the end.

13:54Dario Vidozic's side overcoming a 2-0 deficit themselves, actually, after Liverpool had raced into an early lead. It looked like they were going to extra time as well. But substitute Nadine Nordham rifled home the winner in the 95th minute to save them that. The drama was absolutely incredible at St Helens, Amy. Literally coming down to the last kick of the match. Yeah, it was a great game. We were watching it in the press room at Stamford Bridge. And one of the Chelsea press officers was laughing because he was like, Every time I leave the room, there's a goal because it was just like there was a goal constantly.

14:27I think when Liverpool went into that 2-0 lead, despite everything that Brighton have sort of done, he thought, oh, it's going to take something to come back from this, and especially because Liverpool were playing so well. But I think the subs sort of helped Brighton. I mean, Liverpool lost Deniso Sullivan, which is a bit of a killer, especially as that momentum swung. And sort of as Brighton started to build that comeback back up, it felt like the momentum was with them. It just took a little while for that goal to come. What was it? Madison-Haley just before the hour, I think, and then not till the 95th minute for the winner.

15:00And it felt like it was coming, it was coming. And then the longer it took, Liverpool sort of crept back in and had a couple of chances. And you just didn't know which way the game was going to go. It was a really classic, I mean, it was a classic cup day. Both games were just like, you had no idea which way either game was going to go at the point where it kind of looked from the start, like, oh, this is nailed on to go a certain way. It was a really, really, really good day of football, wasn't it? Yeah, and it's been a really positive few weeks for Brighton, actually, hasn't it? They beat Arsenal in the quarterfinals of the FA Cup, which was a brilliant game, before beating Manchester City in the league.

15:36And then that really important draw against Arsenal, which we'll get into in a bit as well. What's been the key, do you think, to them swinging momentum in their favour, Aisha? Yeah, I mean, the Brighton project is one that I think we can all admire and have been admiring from both the men's and the women's side. And I think it's really important to see that actually the fruits of your labour will be rewarded. They will be reaped. The amount that Brighton care about their women's team, even this project with Vidasic, she came in at the beginning of last season and you've already seen the transformation.

16:10They've got their highest ever WSL points tally last year. They could beat that this year. it's just a show of if you put the work in and you allow a manager to have that time with the players with the right investment where you can get and I think if you put the flip side of it of a Liverpool team who maybe haven't been putting that same investment and priority into it I think that really is it's what you can show for it and I'm really pleased for Brighton they really deserved it but these last few weeks like you say that form they found it's come at just the right time, hasn't it? What a special moment for them to reach that cup final, especially, it's been a tough season for Darjev Iduzic, especially, you know, he lost his father earlier this year, Rado, who was a big part of Brighton in the women's and girls' side.

17:00So he looked up at the sky immediately on the full-time whistle. That was really a touching moment. And they're talking about history. When you talk to Iduzic, he wants to create history and they have this perfect moment and good for them because Brighton, they really deserve it. They're trusting in the manager, the manager's trusting in the players and having that autonomy and direction that he's allowed to have and also, crucially, being given the time to achieve those things. I'll tell you what though, Susie, just like Chelsea, Liverpool are going to be kicking themselves for letting that lead slip.

17:30Where did it all go wrong for Gareth Taylor's side?

17:33Suzy Wrack:I mean, I think when Brighton score their first, literally a minute after Liverpool have gone ahead, that shifts the confidence amongst Dario Fidicic's side a little bit you know you can come back straight away and then Brighton are just I think overall a better quality side very well coached deeper squad which they were able to kind of lean on in midweek against Arsenal so I think they made seven changes for that Arsenal game and what really impressed me at that game was that you really could not see a significant difference to the way they played and how they looked. And then you have the starters sort of coming back in for this with all of the substitutes or kind of more fringy players having made a big difference in midweek and confidence is high in a group as a whole.

18:24Suzy Wrack:I think that really builds some squadron momentum when you have everyone step up. So I think it's just ultimately the stage at which their two projects are at. Like Gareth Taylor is so new into his. they've only really kicked on properly since January after he was able to bring in a few players to give that squad, I was going to say some meat to the bones, but basically the bones as well. And like now you're kind of in a stage where they need a bit more of that in the summer and a bit of stability and, you know, kind of a bit of investment from the club as a whole to kick on. So I don't think it was a surprise that Barton won this game.

19:05Suzy Wrack:I think the surprise was that Liverpool went into a 2-0 lead. But once Brighton get that first goal, literally a minute after Olsen scores, I think you're then talking about a momentum shift and Brighton sort of just kind of snapping out of the days that the two goals put them in. Yeah, to have the resilience to do that in the first place from Brighton's point of view gives them some real confidence going into the final, Amy. How are they going to approach it though? Because obviously they know they can beat Manchester City because they've done it before, but they also know they're going to be underdogs going into the game at Wembley.

19:37They've not experienced an occasion like that either. You know, what a final brings. What can they use to their advantage? Yeah, I think Frank Kirby will obviously play a quite central role in that. I think whenever Dario Videsic talks about Kirby, he talks about almost like a player manager, like a player assistant coach. The role that she has in sort of helping to propel this team to that sort of next level. It's like he's almost like putting, you know, everything he wants to do with his team and putting it into a player that's kind of done all that and been like, you know, go out there and have that role and be like, almost like a, like I say, like a player manager in a way.

20:14So I think she'll be able to share a lot of that experience. I think a lot of these players have got experience, just not with Brighton. You know, you look at like Mendoza and Nett, who's, you know, won Africa Cup of Nations, played in World Cups and things like that. You've got a lot of experience, but just not in this situation. I think the fact that they're not favourites, you know, they're going to be underdogs, probably helps, like, relieve some of the pressure. And the fact that they've just beaten them. I'm so interested to see how that game plays out because, I mean, Brighton really exposed City sort of, like, in behind and especially out wide.

20:48But then you look at City and, you know, they should have maybe, like, the first half, they were brilliant in that game. And it's just a really interesting final. and you know we're used to getting kind of any mixture of sort of the big four I suppose in like a final whether it's FA Cup or League Cup I know there are exceptions but it's so interesting to have another team in that final and see how they handle it and even more so when you're given that Brighton have just beaten Man City and they have that game but that blueprint to do it it's going to be a great final I think Yeah and they're starting to build something really special Investment Works haha what a surprise how many times do we say that I'm sure it's not going to be that long before they're knocking on the Champions League spot doors with the kind of form that they're in, the momentum that they've got and the backing as well.

21:33Good luck to both teams in the final. We will, of course, preview that and review it at the end of the season. It is at the end of the month, by the way. We were just discussing that before the pod got underway, the season that keeps on giving. Everybody's kind of limping towards the end of it at the moment, aren't they? Right, that's it for part one of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. in part two. We're going to look back at Manchester City's title win and a busy week for Arsenal.

21:59Suzy Wrack:I'm Kai Wright. I'm Kai Sherman. And we are here to tell you about our new show, which is rooted in this feeling that at least I have, I know you have, where, you know, it's kind of like when you wake up in the morning and you pick up your phone and you're just hit in the face with a fire hose of news, right? There's war, there's authoritarianism, our planet is burning, I could go on and on and on. And on and on and on. But like we're trying to figure out how to manage it, right? Like how do you manage it? I manage it by leaning in and trying to learn more and trying to figure out, okay, how can I be smarter about this particular topic?

22:36Suzy Wrack:And who can I talk to that's going to make me feel better about it? And who can tell me who's responsible for the mess that I'm reading about? So that's our mission. That's the show. Welcome to Stateside with Kai and Carter. We're a new show from The Guardian. We're talking to big thinkers and the best journalists just trying to understand the world through smart conversation and honest reporting. We don't have billionaires telling us what to say. Stateside with Kyan Carter will come out three times a week, Monday, Wednesday and Friday starting May 13th. Follow on Apple Podcasts or catch us wherever you watch or listen.