Brighton stun Arsenal in FA Cup as WSL 2 title race heats up – Women’s Football Weekly podcast

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:14Hello, I'm Faye Carruthers and welcome to The Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Well, the FA Cup didn't disappoint with four semi-finalists now set. There was an upset at Meadow Park as Brighton knocked out Arsenal. Chelsea's title defence is intact despite a resilient Tottenham. The double still on for Manchester City, who narrowly beat Birmingham. And Liverpool came out on top against Charlton. We'll review all the games, focus on the WSL2, preview the Lionesses' World Cup qualifiers. Plus, we'll take your questions. And that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly.

0:48What a panel we have today. Bless you, Susie Rack. Literally just throwing to you as you sneeze into the microphone. How are you?

0:57Suzy Wrack:appropriate after this holy of weekends did you do an easter egg hunt of course yeah like we just when i was a kid would like our parents would just hide the eggs and we would find them michael's family for some reason did clues so like michael stayed up late doing and he does every year like very elaborate clues for james to easter eggs and because we were playing last year was incredible there was even some in like other languages um but this year because we'd been playing who am i in the car on our long drive on uh saturday um he did it as a version of who am i with various like musicians that we had cds of or like you know kind of various posters or figurines or whatever around the room as like a who am i type clue to find the eggs it was very elaborate.

1:51Suzy Wrack:I love that. That is my kind of Easter egg hunt, I have to say. Tom Gary, lovely to see you. I need to inform you that my marriage is intact after IKEA furniture making. So we're not going to fall out as friends on the recommendation that it's all fine. We survived it. How are you?

2:11Faye Carruthers:I'm very pleased to hear that. No, all well here. No more IKEA furniture, but I do have a scoreline for you, which is Guardian Football Weekly one west coast mainland engineering works nil because i defied the closure of euston stations trains over easter to make it to a match at the weekend so success there and marie batson tell me your win from the weekend uh it was operation house this weekend i was determined to sort out several things in the house so i cleaned the oven the washing machine got a clean i mowed the front lawn the back lawn as well and also vacuumed the house so that was operation house this weekend and sat on the sofa and ate loads of mini eggs as my reward.

2:50I'm very proud of you too and also very jealous because that sounds way more productive than my weekend, for sure. I've also had an epic fail as both mother and auntie as I thought that I could, having worked all weekend, I thought I would take my nephew and my son on an Easter egg hunt to our local park only to find out that the last day was yesterday. So today's not happening. Epic fail. Need to find something else to do. Anyway, we really should talk football, shouldn't we? That's what we're here for. Let's talk about... No, we're all right. We're OK. We don't need to. Let's do a whole pod on domestic matters and Easter eggs.

3:25That would be much more fun. The final four of the Adobe Women's FA Cup is set. The quarterfinals took place around the weekend. We've got one cup set, one extra time and a fairy tale return. All part of the drama witnessed over the last few days. Manchester City, Chelsea, Brighton and Liverpool all advanced. We'll start at Meadow Park. I was there on Sunday. Headline of the weekend as well. Brighton knocked out Arsenal from the competition. Madison Haley with a stunner of a goal and Caitlin Hayes, both set up by Frank Kirby, scored in a 2-0 victory for Brighton. It was a deserved win. Dario Vidozic understandably pleased with his team as well.

4:04We're delighted with the result, he said. We would have loved to play a little bit more football, but we heard about the condition of the pitch this morning. and when we arrived we adapted accordingly. He mentioned that a couple of times to me actually in pre-match and post-match about the pitch but it didn't seem to bother them too much. Susie, massive moment in their season. How did they do it?

4:23Suzy Wrack:It was a hugely impressive performance. They really wanted it and I think that was the key. They took advantage of the fact that Arsenal had heavy legs from the Champions League exploits, the North London derby and really went after the game and didn't allow Arsenal to settle into it at all. and I think that was key. Obviously, Rene Sleggers rotated a bit. I think there were six changes from the Chelsea side, but it's still a team that should be winning a match. I had flashbacks for Brighton's second goal to the disallowed goal against Chelsea in the first leg, where basically Leia Kadina just doesn't jump.

5:04Suzy Wrack:It's incorrectly given us a foul in the Chelsea game and shouldn't have been ruled out. And basically, she does the same. She runs out to meet the ball, but doesn't try and kind of get to it, doesn't try and jump for it, doesn't try and compete for it at all. And Hayes can just head it into the net. And I think that complacency at the back really cost them. There was hesitancy to clear the lines. And Brighton really, really capitalised on that and really kind of kept the pressure on throughout. And, yeah, costly to sort of not get into the game quicker and, you know, kind of control play early on.

5:47Suzy Wrack:Understandable given the fixture pile up. But when you're a team of Arsenal's quality and of, you know, the ambition and the squad that's been built to be able to compete in full competitions, you can't be throwing away results like this and games like this as like, oh, we were tired or whatever it may be. Same could be said for the men's. So, you know, great weekend for me. Well, yeah, no, I didn't want to bring that up. It's an out of another cup competition. And then the women go out of another cup competition. but René Slagas did bring on an entire new front line in the second half and it still didn't make any difference.

6:21But I have to give a big shout out to Chiamaka Ndozi, who was fantastic in goal again. A couple of really crucial saves early on that could have got Arsenal back into the game. She was brilliant, as was Fran Kirby, Tom. She was at the heart of it, the engine room, as we know she can, brought all that kind of big game experience with her, got two assists. She's just crucial for them, isn't she?

6:42Faye Carruthers:Yeah, Kirby and Hayes combining to knock out Arsenal in the Cup. Are there any Chelsea fans listening? On a serious note, Kirby played very, very well. She also played exceptionally well in their away win at Leicester, which I was lucky to see the previous weekend. She's in good form. It's the movement and the kind of vision in that fairly free role she's got kind of in front of Seiki. But not just that, I think she's got the experience. She's got the leadership now that maybe she didn't have when she was maybe 10 years younger. She's bringing that to the dressing room. But just generally, they all play well.

7:16Faye Carruthers:You mentioned Adozi, who I thought was superb again and is having a really good season. But they were good at set pieces. They were good without the ball. And now they're trying to win their first major trophy in the women's game. And good luck to them because they really deserve this victory. I do have a slight bone to pick, though. I did hear a rival audio service describe this win as an example of the magic of the cup. I'm not having that. Sixth beats third in the top flight is not the magic of the cup. If that's the best shot we can offer, then we're clutching at straws. The magic of the cup would be like Liverpool feds going to knock out Markskin as Manchester United.

7:54Faye Carruthers:I'm not having sixth versus third. I've still never seen an upset. 11 seasons covering the competition, Faye. I've never seen a double-sell side lose to anyone from a lower division at a game that I've been at. And, yeah, I'm not having this. We cannot put this up as an example of magic of the cup. Did you inwardly cringe then when I said an upset in my introduction? Very happy with the word upset. It was an upset, but it's not Macclesfield knocking out Crystal Palace. I agree with you 100%. There's no magic wand there, without a doubt. There's no fairy dust. Upset is totally endorsed. But it was a surprise.

8:32It was. I think, which is perhaps not fair on Brighton, actually, but because they've been inconsistent this season, but as of Arsenal, to be fair, I think most people expected it to be an easy Arsenal win. And actually, Anne-Marie, it was the second year in a row that Arsenal have gone out of the quarterfinal stage. I don't think they've won the FA Cup for over 10 years. I think it's been 10 years since they won this competition. and as Susie mentioned you know we know that they were fatigued with all the other exploits that they're up to but they've got very good squad depth but maybe it's not as good as we think it is what do you think?

9:11It's a great point I mean when I was watching the game amongst doing other things yesterday I was kind of looking and going when I saw the line up I thought great the changes great the subs bench are thinking wow someone who could come on get that winner, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The first few minutes, I'm watching it and I'm thinking Arsenal are in trouble here because Brighton were just smothering them. Then Arsenal started to get control and I thought, right, this is where they're going to kick on now. This is where they're going to push on. You saw a couple of times, you know, Mariona Caldente having an opportunity, Stena Blackstenius also having an opportunity as well.

9:44And you mentioned the Brighton goalkeeper being absolutely tremendous within that game. The first goal goes in from Brighton, from Mansell Hale. I thought, okay, it's fine. Absolutely fine. They'll make changes, et cetera, et cetera. And then the trio comes on. I thought, there's no change. There's nothing changing. They looked panicked. They looked rushed, et cetera, et cetera. And I just thought, this isn't going to happen. And the second goal went in. And Susie made their point. They looked flustered. The arms were going up in the air. They just didn't know what to do with themselves. And the times the camera went to Renee Segers, and she's sitting in her chair, and she's got her hand on her chin, and she's looking at her tablet, et cetera, et cetera.

10:19I'm thinking, please get out your chair. go to the edge of the pitch at the corner of your technical box and shout some instructions because these look like players who did not know what to do to get out of trouble and I'm slightly worried about that for Arsenal. I thought this was a team that can solve puzzles and they couldn't solve this particular puzzle and the fact you mentioned about them the second successive year going out of this stage that's not, I'm going to be really blunt, that's not good enough for the level that Arsenal are at right now. The quality that they have, the quality they had on that bench, they should be able to get themselves out of trouble.

10:53The fact this has happened for a second successive year, I think that question needs to be put to Renee Sliggers. How can you not solve this problem, this roadblock, when you come to the quarterfinals of the Women's FA Cup and you can't get past it? This is a cup that Arsenal love. It's their cup. It belongs to them. And for the second successive year, they've not been able to solve this problem. And I think that's something that Arsenal need to look at today and going forward. Yeah, 14-time winners, but not having won it for the last 10 years. To be fair, their attention has gone elsewhere. And if Arsenal end up winning back-to-back Champions League titles, I think the FA Cup will get forgotten about.

11:31But, you know, we've still got a little way to go before that. No such drama at King's Meadow. Chelsea saw off a resilient Tottenham to continue their trophy defence. Villa Berman scored a stunning 86-minute winner after Evelina Summonen had cancelled out Sam Kerr's opener. It felt actually like quite a pivotal moment in Chelsea's season after they were knocked out of Europe midweek. Susie, how do you reflect on that performance?

11:56Suzy Wrack:Yeah, they really needed it. And I think they suffered from kind of all the issues that Arsenal had against Brighton in like, you know, kind of fatigue levels and yeah, coming out of a very, very tough block of games, obviously without the success of getting through to the semifinals of the Champions League behind them as well. but were far more resilient in dealing with that. And they were playing a really, really good Tottenham side who were aggressive. They play to try and take something from games now. And I think when you watch the back-to-back 5-2 defeats to Man City and Arsenal in their last two league games, one of the things that I think they could take a lot of heart from is the fact that when they were behind and the score line was tight, they didn't just kind of play to keep the margin minimal.

12:45Suzy Wrack:They played to try and get something from the game and that cost them because it opened them up and then obviously City and Arsenal really exposed them. But I think there's something really admirable about playing to try and get something from the game and not being scared to zero points is zero points, right? So whether you lose by three goals or you lose by one, it doesn't matter. But if you've got a chance to go for the point, why not go for it? And I think that was like testament to them in this game. And Chelsea really, really struggled with that big time. And it took the moment of magic from Will Berman to kind of get them the win.

13:22Suzy Wrack:And it was a phenomenal goal. It's her first Chelsea goal. She deserves it, particularly after the disallowed one against Arsenal in the first leg, which just shouldn't have been disallowed. what would have been two big goals in really, really big moments for the team, for a player who's only 19 and has had an incredible sort of block as well, which is cool. Yeah, she's so young, Tom, isn't she? But one of the emerging talents of the season, I think it's fair to say.

13:45Faye Carruthers:Yeah, definitely. And I think looks like one of the brightest young defenders in the game right now. So it's super. And of course, played really well in Europe as well, I think as well. it was worth pointing out and was very unlucky not to get a goal in the game at the Emirates, of course. But no, listen, I think this was, Chelsea needed this and it was a big moment for their season, I think, because if they can come away from this campaign with the FA Cup, I think it's still a really good successful year in a kind of transition period for them as well. So there would always be that lingering disappointment of how far off they've been in a title race and going out in Europe.

14:27Faye Carruthers:But the FA Cup would still represent, given they've also got the League Cup too, of course. That's still a really good season that a lot of people would be jealous of. So I think this was big for Chelsea. And then I know the draw's difficult for them as well, but they've got a really good chance now of a cup double. So let's see. Martin Ho set up his Spurs side with a more defensive double pivot. Evelina Sumanen and Drew Spence instead of the more attacking Olivia Holt and Marie. I mean, obviously it didn't fully work because they didn't win the game, but was it the right call, do you think, for this game?

15:04Yeah, I think so. And I think the scoreline reflects that. Faye, in the full-time whistle went and the cameras panning around at the various players and what have you, and it fell onto some of the Tottenham players. They were literally taking deep gulps of air because it showed how hard they'd worked to try and keep Chelsea at bay. Of course, obviously Chelsea go away with the win, but I was quite impressed with the way that Martin Ho had set up Tottenham yesterday. Again, I'm sorry, Spurs fans. I thought it was going to be a drubbing because this is Chelsea at the end of the day, you know, and the quality that they've got.

15:36But, you know, Tottenham gave it their all. They worked incredibly hard. They were incredibly disciplined as well. I thought Sermon's equaliser was brilliant, but the quality of Chelsea, it's just there. Yeah, but I think they worked extremely hard. And I think that was pretty evident at the full time we saw. And as I said, you could just see them just try to take in some air because they'd worked so hard. And dare I say the cliche, ran themselves into the ground, I would say. And then, you know, the chance is the end. That was a nervy last five minutes, I'd have to say, for Chelsea. The way that Tottenham really tried to push for that equaliser.

16:12But, you know, the right team won in the end. But Tottenham, I should say, despite the results, should be pretty proud of themselves. The way they really showed up for this quarterfinal. An early goal from Bunny Shaw saw Manchester City through to the semifinals against WSL 2 leaders Birmingham City. It means they keep their hopes of a domestic double alive, Susie. But obviously, how pleased is Amy Merrick going to be at her side's performance despite the defeat? And it's always difficult saying that because it feels really patronising to say, oh, she must be pleased with their performance despite them actually getting knocked out of the cup.

16:45But, you know, to keep the WSL champions elect limited to just one goal and Bunny Shaw, who's a goal machine anyway, scoring it. I'm sure actually when she looks back, she'll be quite pleased with that.

16:58Suzy Wrack:Oh, definitely. I mean, like few teams in the WSL can do that, right? Like limit City to one goal, especially when you concede so early on to like regain some defensive structure is really great. Thomas, brilliant in goal for them as well. obviously Shaw hit the bottom of the post too I think they hit the bar at one point as well so they were kind of pushing but I thought it was a really resilient performance and a real boost going into the final games of the season in the league for them as well hugely impressive to hold that City front line at bay for 84 minutes of the game I guess you could say City weren't at their clinical best but a team has to have something to say about that for that to happen.

17:47Suzy Wrack:I think they can take a huge amount from that performance. Charlton took Liverpool to extra time at the Valley on Sunday. Gareth Taylor's side eventually came through thanks to a 115th minute winner from young Zara Shaw. You were at this one, Tom. What did you make of the fight that Charlton put up? Was it just the fact that Liverpool had too much for them in the end?

18:10Faye Carruthers:Charlton played very, very well defensively. for 115 minutes, made it very, very difficult for Liverpool to break them down. They didn't offer loads at the other end, in fairness, but defensively, in terms of the work rate and the fight and just the defensive qualities, they looked fairly WSL ready, actually. And I think Karen Hills was rightly proud of the performance and the determination that they showed, nearly taking Liverpool all the way to penalties. The pressure was starting to mount for Liverpool, but it was a scrappy goal. It was one of the ugliest, like proper kind of goal mouth scramble.

18:49Faye Carruthers:I sort of loved it in a weird way because it was just such a mess. Clark hit the post, then had a header cleared that might have hit an arm, then her next header hit the bar, then it bounced down again. And then Zara Shaw sort of forces it home. It was like beautifully messy scramble, but Liverpool did find a way to score. But that was, for the previous 15, 20 minutes, it was looking like that was going to be the only kind of way they would find a way through would sort of by hook or by crook sort of somehow forcing it over the line. Liverpool were the better team of course they were but Charlton deserve a lot of credit for how long they resisted them and I think if they perform with that level of work rate and determination you know I mean they've got the best defensive record in WSL 2 they've obviously got two games left two very difficult games Southampton away and Birmingham at home then they're not up yet.

19:43Faye Carruthers:It's really tight. But if they perform like that, they've got a great chance. And even if they did end up in the playoff, if they defend like that, then they will make it really hard for whoever they're up against there. So yeah, lots of encouragement for Karen Hills' team to take from that display in front of their largest crowd at the Valley for a women's game for more than 20 years. So yeah, well done to them for that performance. Yeah, we'll talk about how tight the WSL2 is in a minute, but it was a fairytale return for 18-year-old Academy product Zara Shaw. She had an ACL injury a year ago and that was the second of her career, would you believe.

20:20This is what she had to say after the game. I don't know what to say, if I'm honest. This is what she had to say. I don't know. For those that have been close to me over the past few seasons, it's been really, really tough. I've gone through things that I didn't think I'd ever have to go through, not once but twice. Just thank you to all the girls. They've put in a shift today. I'm all over the place right now. couldn't have done it without them. It's all about the team. Let's talk about the draw, shall we? Because that was made on Monday night. Very interesting because Manchester City will travel to Chelsea.

20:50Liverpool will host Brighton. The ties are going to be played on the 9th and 10th of May. But whatever happens, it's going to be a newer face in the final than what we've seen in the last few years, which excites me personally. The last time Liverpool made an appearance was in 1995. Brighton, though, are on the brink of history. They've never gone to Wembley and made a final. What did you make of the draw, Anne-Marie? A difficult one to call, particularly between, for me, the Chelsea, the Man City one, is the one that I cannot decide which team will go through to the final. I think Liverpool versus Brighton.

21:23I think Brighton will get the win and I'd be delighted for them to get that opportunity to play in front of their fans at Wembley Stadium. Would it be wrong for me to say that I'm kind of a little bit disappointed did the Chelsea Man City in the semi-final. I look at it and I think, it's going to be, don't get me wrong, it'll be a great semi-final. It will be great. But I look at it and think that's worthy of a final as well. I've had it before. It's boring. Boring. I know, I know, I know, I know. It's just, you know, it's kind of the way that, you know, Chelsea have been, you know, domestically their season, the way that it's been the twists and turns.

21:58Man City have been the dominant team in the WSL. They're both, you know, in terms of the League Cup, It's gone Chelsea's way. Could Man City then lift the FA Cup? You know, there's a few storylines within that. I'm just, you know, I'm just kind of thinking, yeah, it feels a bit too early for Chelsea and Man City to be meeting in the same five. But it is what it is, is the draw. And I accept that. But I can't call it that second one between Chelsea and Man City. I think it could go either way. But for me, Liverpool-Brighton, I'm expecting Brighton to come through that. And they will be the ones that will be playing in front of their fans at Wembley Stadium, I'd say.