Chelsea's WSL title hopes dented and City tighten grip on top spot – Women’s Football Weekly podcast

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:30nine points clear at the top of the table. There were big wins at the bottom for Liverpool and West Ham, while Manchester United kept pace for the Champions League places. We'll talk League Cup, the inaugural Women's Champions Cup, plus we'll take your questions. And that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Susie Rat, good morning. Let's just face the elephant in the room. You may be taking over this pod imminently. I mean, you sound great. like top Phoebe Buffet, embrace the voice. Hello, my babies. Or should I do Smelly Cat? Which one? Oh, Smelly Cat. Always Smelly Cat. Tim Stillman, how are you?

1:12You must be cock-a-hoop after the weekend. Yeah, very much so. Hard relay on the voice. I think it will just about hold up. But yes, Saturday certainly helped. Gave a little bit of a boost for sure. Excellent. This should be you with your cheering. I had nothing to cheer about over the weekend. Ayesha Gilati, how are you? I'm very well, thank you. Nice to see you, Faye. And you're going to power through, I believe in you. Yeah, it was lovely to see both Susie and Ayesha, actually, at the Football Writers Association tribute to Serena Vigman at the weekend. It was a lovely event with lovely people involved in it and really good to hear from the woman herself in more relaxed surroundings than we're used to hearing her during post-match interviews.

2:03But maybe we'll talk about that a little bit later. Let's focus on Arsenal putting the cat amongst the pigeons in terms of Chelsea's title chances, at least. They came away from Stamford Bridge with a 2-0 victory, which ended Chelsea's six-game unbeaten run against their London rivals. Beth Mead and Mariona Caldente both scored in the second half to bring them within a point of Sonia Bonpastor's team, who still sits second. Big dent to Chelsea's hopes of retaining the title, as if they had a mountain to climb already. They're now nine points behind Manchester City's Susie. Sonia Bonpestor said, you know, they're not going to give up on it.

2:41But did perhaps this game highlight their frailties this season? And is the title race over? In terms of highlighting their frailties, I think they've looked fragile for quite some time, you know, across the course of last season. I think we said it many times on the podcast that despite that phenomenal run across the season, unbeaten, three domestic trophies, etc. Like they didn't look amazing. You could easily argue that last season Arsenal and possibly City at times played better football at points of the season, but just lacked consistency for significant chunks of the season. And I think there was a bit of an expectation that Sonia Bonpastor's first season would be resolved in the summer a little bit.

3:28and they would sort of move on from that period and start to gel more and a couple of new signings and a bit of stability over the summer would strengthen things on the pitch a little bit. And I don't think that's happened. So from that point of view, you know, I'm not overly surprised because it's kind of a reflection of the way things have been since Sonia came in. Slightly lucky with everyone else's sort of failures last season and then getting a little bit caught out for not improving on that form this season. In terms of the title race, nine points in a league of 12 teams is like an insurmountable task.

4:02That said, they've got Chelsea at the weekend and then Arsenal straight after the following weekend. So if they lose both of those games, it's three points and suddenly everything is looking very different and they've still got to play Man United away. So no, not over. Highly likely it's over. But you don't know, you know, if those two games don't go the way they plan, then they're in trouble. And that's a huge confidence knock as well. That said, Chelsea and Arsenal have got Champions League. Arsenal have got Champions Cup this week. There's a lot going on to distract those teams while City are able to do week on week on week football.

4:42Yeah, consistency. And if my voice was more consistent, I'd be cracking out Lenny Kravitz. It ain't over till it's over. but I'll save you that. Ayesha, what I found really interesting about this game is if you looked at the line-ups before kick-off, Chelsea had so much more depth that they could call upon whereas we've talked about Arsenal's lack of options at times. Stina Blacks, Sinias and Alessia Russo had to start this game for Rene Slagers. So were you then really surprised how little Chelsea could impact the game from the bench? Yeah, definitely. I enjoyed your mention of Cat amongst the pigeons at the beginning, by the way.

5:22It was a bit of a Traitors reference as well. Also, if you're of a certain age, Bross. But I may be aging myself with Lenny Kravitz as well. Hitting it all. I love it. Yeah, it felt like the roles were reversed from what we have seen in recent times. Arsenal haven't won away at Chelsea in the league since 2018, which is just crazy. but actually when you think about it, that makes total sense. And yeah, those lack of options. There was a lot of talk about Olivia Smith's suspension. I thought that would have quite a big impact. She's had a big impact on this Arsenal team this season. And yeah, the restrictive bench that Arsenal had, but it didn't seem to matter because those players that started just played with so much fire, so much passion in a way that we haven't really seen in recent games.

6:12And I think especially it was just that clinical edge that they had. They've been criticised recently, and I think fairly so, for missing chances in front of the goal, not being cutthroat, and ultimately not winning as a result of that. And it was just the opposite on the weekend. They did actually miss a couple of chances in the first half, but it was like something switched in that second half. And that second half, those two chances they had, and Beth Mead and Mariana Caldente took them really, really perfectly. And it was the total opposite story for Chelsea. Cuthbert missed a golden opportunity.

6:48Nuskan missed an opportunity. And it felt like it wasn't the Chelsea we had seen of late. Like you mentioned, that squad depth, they made some really good changes, impactful players coming off the bench, but just didn't really seem to impact the game in the way they normally might have done. and on the flip side I was kind of looking at the changes Arsenal was making and thinking like oh I'm not you know not sure they're playing so well like maybe maybe leave it for a bit but I mean René Slegas knew what she was doing she wanted to see that game out and and she did just that and I think Sonia Bonpastor will be frustrated that the impact subs the squad depth that she normally has just wasn't able to have the impact that they've been able to have in recent times but on the league I think it's an interesting one because obviously if Sonia Bonpastor was ahead by nine points she wouldn't be saying the league's over, it's wrapped up.

7:37She'd be saying it's wide open and it's all to play for. So I think that there's of course that mentality and maybe a bit of mind games going on, but of course City do look like they are in the strongest position. Renny Slaggers has been under pressure herself, hasn't she, Tim? Obviously Arsenal knocked out of the League Cup by Manchester United midweek, but what was it that she did in this game, do you think that kind of outsmarted Chelsea? I think there were a couple of things. You talked a little bit about, I think everyone was looking at both the benches before the game and thinking Chelsea have got a lot more tools to change this.

8:12And they did. The problem for them and the good thing for Arsenal was that by the time those changes came into effect, Arsenal had a two goal lead. If this game had been level with 20 minutes to go, I think we might have been talking about Chelsea's better squad depth, but Arsenal had something to hang on to. I spoke to Rene on Friday and I asked, in a strange way, in just a one-off game, does having fewer options give you greater clarity? Perhaps just that feeling that these are the players we've got, this is the game plan and we know we've got to do it. And Rene did reference that afterwards, whereas with Chelsea, they changed formation, I think, three times.

8:52Sometimes it can be too much, but I think that was mainly the game state. that where Arsenal really won this game was in midfield. Chelsea played into Arsenal's hands. They played a back three and then they had a front three that they gave no defensive responsibility to. I can't understand if you're doing that why you don't start Lauren James. The only reason you don't start Lauren James is if you've got out of possession concerns, but they didn't ask Guero Wright and Alyssa Thompson or Sam Kerr to do that anyway. So it just left a massive gap in the middle of the pitch and Arsenal kind of brought Beth Mead inside.

9:25They brought Emily Fox inside and they just had greater numbers in the middle. And I think Arsenal have played well recently. They just haven't been able to put the ball in the net. But this time, when the two chances came in the second half, they just calmed right down, composed themselves and kind of got it done. And that's the piece that's been missing over the last couple of months, probably all season. Yeah, you mentioned Beth Mead there. Susie, she got a goal and assist, played a more central role. 10th goal against Chelsea. She's actually had quite a bit of criticism from a section of the Arsenal fans this season.

10:01How harsh has that been, do you think? Very. I think she's been phenomenal for Arsenal and England for more than a year, like out for a period of time with her ACL injury some years ago. And it took a little bit of time for her to kind of refine her form of fitness after that. But I think since she sort of got over that kind of slow, long recovery period, which it can take some time. I mean, look at Sam Kerr and her struggle to sort of find any kind of rhythm now. She's playing some of the best football of her career. I think she's dangerous, constant threat, fantastic outlet. Like, work rate is incredible.

10:38Vision is brilliant. Connections and combinations with Emily Fox, Arsenal's most dangerous outlet for most of the match. And great eye for goal as well. So a player that's got it all, you know, for a team that hasn't been scoring a huge number of goals, hugely important that she's picking up that mantle and taking it on. And also good in the context of, you know, Olivia Smith through suspension as well, that you've got, you know, such a seamless transition between the two of them as well. Tim, just a quick one on what this can do for Arsenal's season. Yeah, I mean, actually, Arsenal hadn't won a big game this season.

11:18They'd lost to Bayern, Lyon, Manchester United, drawn twice for Manchester United, lost to City, drawn with Chelsea. So it's quite a strange one because on one hand, and I kind of agree with this, there's a lot of, oh, Arsenal turn up in these games, but they don't do it consistently. I do think there's some truth in that. But at the same time, it was the first time that they'd really done it this season and they're going to have to do it again. They've got Man City is literally their next WSL game. They've got the Champions Cup. if they want to win the FA Cup, for example, they are not going to be able to do it without beating at least one of Chelsea, City or United.

11:53And obviously there could be a Champions League quarterfinal against Chelsea. So we know in this league, in these competitions, you want to win trophies. You've got to beat those teams and Arsenal hadn't been able to do it. They played reasonably well, at least for patches in all of those games. but the reason Man City are going to walk the league is because they score a lot more goals than everyone else Chelsea included and that's really the issue for Arsenal I still hope and think they might at least try to add something in the last week of the window just to give them a little bit more firepower confidence wise though absolutely huge I think Arsenal are a good team and they needed to remind themselves of it They do score a lot of goals Manchester City late and important ones as well.

12:42They've opened their gap at the top of the Barclays WSL up to nine points because of Bunny Shaw's 86th minute winner against London City Lionesses. They won 2-1 in the end. It feels quite a significant result for Manchester City. Aisha, bearing in mind what we've just been speaking about, but they didn't actually have things their own way, but they managed to find a way, which is kind of what champions do, isn't it? Exactly that. It's what Chelsea did last season when they weren't necessarily playing so well in those games and just winning by one goal margins. Tim mentioned Man City have been a bit more free scoring this season, but Sunday wasn't one of those examples.

13:22I think they have ultimately just these champions, these elite players in their squad. You know, players like Bunny Shaw, Viv Miedema, Lauren Hemp, who they weren't able to be consistently in the team last season. I mean, City just in general were quite riddled with injuries last season. And I think people did think that had a big part to play and why they weren't really at it. But this season, yeah, they've really been brilliant. This was their 12th consecutive win, which is impressive. You can see why. And Andre Eglert has just injected so much into the City team. It's like the belief that they have, again, that they didn't have last season, but we've seen before.

14:02But I want to just mention London City a bit because I thought, you know, they really competed. And there's been a fair amount of criticism about all the signings. Can they gel? It feels like they're getting there. And I mean, Freya Godfrey's goal was just what a goal. And also Izzy Goodwin hitting, you know, hitting the post, hitting the crossbar. She was on fire too. And actually, those are two players who aren't necessarily in that big roster of what they might call the superstar signings. But just two bright young, you know, talents, English talents that are just, they're just superstars in their own way, for sure.

14:38And of course, excited to see what Cascarino brings to that side too. And definitely a team that is going to have a really interesting end to this season. But yeah, City ultimately on the day definitely just got that edge. Yeah, and the amount of attacking depth they've got as well. Carolyn scoring three times in three starts. And the bench they have, Grace Clinton doesn't even get on in this game. But I saw a stat that this season, Miedema and Shaw have got 26 goals and assists between them. You compare that like Arsenal, Russo, Mournem, it's 12. Toon and Turland it's 14 goals and assists between them like City didn't play particularly well in this game I don't think and like you said Aisha LCL had some really good chances but I don't think City are overall tactically, strategically so much better than everyone else they've just got those goal scorers and that's what makes the difference for them it made the difference for them in this game as well Yeah it did Bunny Shaw always makes the difference Susie as well We always wax her a call about her on this pod.

15:48Brilliant goal, obviously, but we kind of forget her all-round game a lot of the time because she scores so many goals. And, you know, that was a goal-saving block that she made earlier on in the game to deny Wasa Sangare. And maybe she needs more recognition for those kind of things, Susie. Yeah, I mean, just needs more recognition generally on the global stage, right? I think we talked about it around the top 100 list and the Ballon d 'Or and all of those kind of things. So she's delivering on every front at the moment. And I really hope starts to pick up some of that sort of more international recognition that she deserves for the kind of numbers she's putting in and the way she plays, which is just so beautifully, technically clever, physically, intelligent, defensively, has a presence that really helps the team as well.

16:45All-rounder, gifted and a delight to watch, as is Freya Godfrey a delight to watch, Tim. Just want your thoughts because obviously she came from Arsenal in the summer, having come through the academy. and as Aisha said, possibly one of the goals of the season she scored as the equaliser. How has she started to come into her own? From an Arsenal perspective, I kind of think it's a real shame in terms of there might be a gap there next season for her, but it just wasn't quite there and she'd been on three loan spells. So I think she just had to go out and join someone and play and she got in the England squad recently.

17:25I don't think that would have happened if she had stayed at Arsenal. She just needed to go and play. But, you know, you look at her performance against Tottenham recently as well. I think she's just come to that age where she's had a couple of good loans in the WSL2 or the Championship as it was. And, yeah, I think just getting that regular game time and getting that confidence has really, really helped her. I'm really, really pleased to see her doing so well. And if she was a year younger, maybe it could have happened for her at Arsenal. Never say never. She could go back. Right, Liverpool 2, Spurs nil.

17:58Liverpool also left it late. Sensational first win of their league season. Gareth Taylor's side beat Spurs thanks to two goals deep into injury time. One of them was an own goal from Toko Koga and a finish from Mia Enderby. Smiles all round. Gareth Taylor described the result as really satisfying. That's quite an understatement. What did you make of their performance, Aisha? I think Liverpool are one of those sides this season and I might have said this on the pod before but they hadn't got any wins but they didn't strike me as a team that were playing the worst in the league and they've been a bit unlucky you know they've had some goals late goals against them it felt like they needed a bit of luck to go their way and this did feel like one of those moments they were maybe slightly maybe you know probably deserved the win on balance but It was a tight game.

18:53And yeah, they really needed those late goals to get their first win. I'm not surprised Gareth Taylor is delighted with that because yeah, it's a stressful situation and you don't want to be bottom of the WSL. And all of a sudden, these three points have just made it super tight at the bottom. You know, only two points between those bottom four. And I think they're going to be okay. hey, I think this is going to be that piece of morale that they needed just to get some more wins under their belt. Because, you know, against a Spurs side, he'd been very impressive this season under Martin Ho and are in that conversation for top three.

19:32You know, they've been there or thereabouts. And I think Martin Ho said, actually, this is a bit of a dose of reality and it shows we are making progress, but we're not quite there yet. We need to be better to compete with those top teams and we need to have that clinical edge to actually find those goals and get over the line in those draws. And actually it was Liverpool who were able to do that at the weekend and I'm really pleased for them. I think they deserve their first win and pleased for Gareth Taylor and his team. And they've been, oh sorry, I was going to say they're a super busy transfer market as well which shows so much intent and I think that's really, really important for this side.

20:07Yeah, you could see that their newfound strength in depth came into play in that as well and we will talk Spurs in a second. Mia Enderby, though, Susie, not really had the easiest time of it. Her goal came in the 95th minute after the Kogorone goal came in the 94th. She got that late equaliser against West Ham in December, which was actually her first WSL goal. But actually involvement in both goals could prove significant in the course of Liverpool's season. Might this spark her Liverpool career into life? or is it just one goal and 95th minute? I hope it does spark it to life in that this is her third season at Liverpool and she hadn't scored in the league prior to this season, right?

20:53She's gone two seasons without scoring in the league, just scoring in the various cup competitions. So to have three goals now at this stage of the season, a time when Liverpool are bringing in players that hopefully will help them creatively, I think is really important. She's only 20 years old. So she's been there for a fair while, joined at a fairly young age from Sheffield United. And yeah, hugely talented player that has really kind of lacked service in the first half of the season. And then, you know, had a nasty neck injury in October, November time where she was stretched off the pitch that really kind of caused some quite serious concerns.

21:34luckily clearly not that bad came back okay and has now started scoring in the league for the first time in a very very long time well in fact ever because she was in the women's championship with Sheffield United so like yeah I think the vibes are good at Liverpool at the moment given the new signings coming in and a result like this and you know you do hope that they can kick on from there. I think they deserve a bit of good fortune as well after the tough start and doing it on such depleted resources. Yeah, Spurs will be disappointed though, Tim. Martin Ho and Bethany England, both very honest about their poor performance.

22:16We weren't at it, is what Ho said. Liverpool were the better team. We didn't get up to speed at all. And they didn't. It was their chance as well to keep up with Arsenal and Manchester United in the race for the UEFA were in Champions League spots and they failed. How disappointed will they be, do you think? Yeah, very, particularly because like Liverpool, they've done a lot of work this January. What kind of struck me in this game is that both teams had players missing but still had their full complement of nine subs, which you don't always see, I think, particularly with Liverpool. Recently in Liverpool missing someone like Olsen as well, who's been probably their best player this season.

22:51I think the surface played a part, I mean, it certainly plays a part in the second goal, but you can see people falling over all over the shop on this kind of surface. But I think the thing is, I think Martin Ho's right, that it's probably a bit of a reality check. I don't want to say they're in a false position, but they're on minus one goal difference. And I think goal difference is often a very good gauge of, you know, in terms of when you're comparing yourself to the kind of big four, that they're not quite there yet, but they're certainly building towards it. So kind of bigger picture, they're still in a great position that they would have taken even two months ago, let alone at the beginning of the season.

23:30But yes, certainly a little bit of a reality check here, I think. A bump back down to earth. That's it for part one of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. In part two, we'll wrap up the rest of the WSL action and look ahead to the inaugural Champions Cup.

23:57Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Thank you for bearing with me. I'm sorry if this is ruining your experience of the pod, but hopefully the voice is kind of getting a little bit more lubricated as we go on. Now then, we were talking Liverpool in part one, and not to be knocked out of sync, West Ham secured their second victory of the season. It was a hard-fought 2-1 win away to Leicester. Verena Hanshaw scored a spectacular free kick before Shakira Martinez doubled the score. Leicester did pull one back through an Eva Nystrom own goal, but couldn't salvage the point despite late pressure in the end.

24:35But first league win under Rita Guarino and only West Ham's second win of the season, Aisha. How did they get this result over the line ultimately? Yeah, super important for the new manager to get that result to kind of vindicate the decision of, you know, getting a new manager in and having the team working for you. It was one of those sort of bottom of the table clashes. It felt like that. Very much both teams going for that win. I kind of feel like these are the two teams that have maybe, in my opinion, struggled the most or maybe looked like the teams that are going to be struggling towards the end of the season.

25:15So it was interesting to see how it played out. I think with Leicester, they have really tried to strengthen in the transfer window. They've got players in kind of all positions. we saw Alicia Lehman have a part to play in that late goal that they did manage to get I think on balance West Ham deserved the win but I would say that it wasn't sort of super a super impressive performance from either side or super convincing but yeah a really really important win for West Ham to get it in the situation that they're in. Yeah Rick Parsman will fill his side did enough to get a result out of the performance but obviously it wasn't and they've been pulled right back into a battle at the bottom of the table, which means worrying times again at the King Power, Susie.

26:04Very, and they're likely going to be in more trouble because their next three fixtures are Arsenal, Man United and Man City. So I wouldn't be surprised if at the end of those three games they were at the bottom of the table. I think they're in a tough spot. The performance against West Ham wasn't terrible, but it wasn't one that was going to kind of set the world alight or necessarily inspire hugely either. So like they really need to be getting results against those teams that are around them before and after this run of fixtures and they've not done it before. They've got then Liverpool straight after the City game.

26:41So there's a chance for them to pull it back but it's how much of an impact those three games against top four teams have. Well, they actually have a reprieve because the Arsenal fixture has been postponed because of the Champions Cup. So, you know, slight little bit of breathing space. There's no breathing space. There's no breathing space. Well, there's no breathing space for any of these teams, actually. It's such a... Yeah, how could I forget the Champions Cup? It's not like it's a, you know, like, tournament that's not being shoved down our throats and I'm not spending two entire full days there and preview days.