Euro 2025 final preview: England take on Spain – Women’s Football Weekly

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:15Hello, I'm Faye Carruthers and welcome to The Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Three weeks, 30 matches, 104 goals, four periods of extra time, three penalty shootouts. What a ride Euro 2025 has been so far. And it all comes down to Sunday's final. 16 teams have been whittled down to two as England and Spain come face to face in Basel. We'll preview Sunday afternoon's showpiece, plus we'll take your questions. And that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly.

0:48Well, what a panel we have today. Susie Rack, the end is nigh. Well done for getting this far.

0:56Suzy Wrack:I don't know how we've got here, but it felt very slow and now suddenly it feels like it was yesterday that we were flying out. I feel tipped down here. Yes, I know. I have a friend with me today. Before we say, I want to say hello to Sophie first because that's more important. Sophie, how are you? I'm good, thank you. I moved to Basel yesterday, so getting ready for the big final. And it's nice to have a change of scenery as well. So, yeah, very, very much looking forward to it. It's beautiful, Basel, isn't it? That is where I've been getting my FOMO. The scenery in all of your photographs and all of the coverage I've been watching is just absolutely spectacular.

1:37We have a new pod mascot ourselves today. Ted is joining me in the pod. Are you going to say good morning to everybody? Good morning. Good morning. We've got all the listeners listening. Have you been watching the football with mummy? Yeah. And who's going to win? I don't know. Neither do we. Who do we say normally when we're... Come on, England! Come on, England! Fingers crossed, Ted is our lucky mascot. Susie had a question for you, actually, Ted. Oh, yeah. Oh, so, Paw Patrol or the football, Ted?

2:14Suzy Wrack:Which one would you prefer to watch? Paw Patrol. Yeah, I think me too. I think me too. I'm a big fan of Chase. I like all the parts. Right, say bye-bye to Sophie and Susie. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. So actually, if you've been with us since the beginning of the tournament, you'll know that in the Guardian's Guide to the Euro 2025 tournament, various Swiss mascots had been assigned to each of the 16 teams. So I've got my own mascot in my son coming and supporting me this morning. But we had an email from Raphael, who lives in Switzerland. We've mentioned him before. He wanted a reminder of what the Swiss symbols for England and Spain were.

2:51He said he truly enjoyed the ones that we shared on the podcast early on. And actually, the thing that started it all off, I think, was when we were talking about Norway and what kind of tournament they were going to have. They had the Large Hadron Collider as their mascot. Intelligence with a god particle up front who can turn lead into gold, but not on a consistent basis. And I think it pretty much panned out that way, didn't it? So England had the Toblerone as their mascot. Gold-wrapped icon, invented in 1908, imposing shape, a cut above its top-tier confectionery rivals, travels well, happy in airports, notoriously hard to handle, but are cracks starting to show.

3:33How do we feel about that now we're into the final? Have you ever had a big toberon, you know, like the giant ones? Yes. The ones that, like, those last forever. I mean, they probably don't last forever if you try and eat them, but they literally will not fall apart. So I think that's a good sign, right? That definitely sums up England. I say I have, I've not eaten it because it's literally my worst nightmare wrapped in a triangle.

3:58Suzy Wrack:I look at the Toblerone and I think like it's lots of little ups and downs. And I feel like that is the summary of this tournament. That's perfect. That's perfect. OK, so what about Spain? Their mascot was gold, lustrous, bright yellow, noble metal, resistant to corrosion, close to indestructible. known for its sheen majesty and for being refined in Switzerland. Only really vulnerable to daylight robbery. Are we going to get a heist on Sunday, Susie? I hope so. That'd be good, wouldn't it? I mean, that said, like, I think Kira Walsh in a little press conference the other day, I say a little press conference, a big press conference the other day, was saying that she is really glad that the Spanish players, as a human being, and get to enjoy a final without the drama of the off-the-pitch stuff that clouded their 2023 final win.

4:53Suzy Wrack:So I wouldn't be sad to see them win. They're hugely talented. They've got some of the most magical players in the world to watch.

5:05Suzy Wrack:They are waiting for a revolution back home as well to actually happen. Obviously, we had that in 2022. and I don't think it'd be a huge failure for England if they lost that game, but it would be nice for them to win. Do you know what? We said it on the pod yesterday, actually, that rivalries aside, etc. And I think we almost established during this tournament that I was more of an underdog fan than an England fan, ultimately, which obviously isn't true, but it felt like that at times. And in this final, it doesn't feel like there are any losers. You're an underdog fan and Ted's a dog fan. Yeah, exactly.

5:48It is, as we know, Soph, a reenactment of the World Cup final from two years ago. Spain were 1-0 winners on that day. You wrote a moving the goalpost piece on this this week, Soph, which was fascinating. How have both teams evolved from that time? I think both have been through different kinds of transitions. I write about Spain, obviously, and kind of the reckoning that's been happening in Spanish women's football since, or, you know, in the immediate aftermath and how, you know, that obviously put a bit of a down-knoe maybe on the celebrations or everything that happened after the final. But I think they've added things to their game in the last two years that we haven't seen necessarily before.

6:28They start now with Esther Gonzalez up front. She is a number, one of the, she's like a classic number nine. She can do all of the other stuff as well. She's brilliant. but she has the ability to just really lead that line. And you've been seeing them play a lot of long balls now, which they probably didn't always used to do. They either come from the centre-backs or they come from Olga Komona at left-back and she is pretty on the money with them. So they've added that side to the game. I think they've added a lot of patience, which is what the guests were talking about yesterday in the pod in terms of being able to not get frustrated when things aren't going well for them and they know that their moment will come.

7:06So they've added different aspects to the game for England. I think there's been a transition. I think we're still in transition in terms of looking at the England squad at the moment. There has been a good number of young players come through and bed themselves in in the last couple of years. That's probably happened both through like choice, but also through injury. And maybe in some ways, some of the injuries have been a bit of a blessing in disguise at some points because you've allowed Grace Clinton to get regular time, Jess Park to get regular time. You know, people like that who are now kind of ready and they're not going to a tournament cold.

7:37So while they've not seen much time in this tournament, you know that if they're on the bench and they can come off, they've got that kind of competitiveness level to be able to deal with what's put in front of them. I think England have shown a bit of a versatility that we probably didn't know that they had in recent years. It was certainly this last year. I just think back to that game against Spain in February at Wembley and the way that they just became this kind of defensive unit. And England do like to play possession football. That's what they want to do. But to be able to show that you can put in a 90 minutes like that where you can back to the wall, chase down everything.

8:15They call it the proper English performance, don't they? You know, where they're giving the Spanish no space. I think they've added that to their game that we probably didn't necessarily knew they had in their locker. So, yeah, both have evolved, both going through a bit of transition, both bringing young players but it's exciting to see what's going to happen on Sunday Yeah, there's that England DNA strand that we've been hearing from the FA for such a long time I tell you what Susie I was on a podcast earlier today in focus with the Guardian check it out if you'd like to it's kind of an overview of the Lionesses route to the final and some other issues that they've faced on and off the pitch additionally and it was really interesting kind of going back because when you were in the middle of it, which I'm sure you guys both feel even more than me, a step removed at home at the moment, that, you know, it's been a roller coaster.

9:08You mentioned it in terms of the Toblerone, the ups and downs, you know, it's not been a smooth ride. That group of death we always knew was going to be really difficult. Then they go and see off Sweden and Italy, both in 120 minutes, Sweden with penalties as well. What have you made of their tournament so far as an overview?

9:28Suzy Wrack:you I mean I think it's like symbolic of the state of the game and how things are changing and how um how investment is going across Europe and across the world to a certain extent in that I was reflecting on this last night in Stonefall Note because I sent her my preview in the early hours when I very very tiredly finished it and could barely see words anymore I was looking back at sort of the growth of the team and the development of the team and when you think of sort of you know the semi-final success of the lionesses in 2015 and the bronze medal match i say semi-final success obviously lost that by meaning reaching uh the semi-final and then you know kind of since then 2017 semi-final 2019 semi-final and then winning the euros in 2022 final 23 top final 25 i think that matches pretty closely with sort of like the investment in the side and the that that kind of development and 2022 was a point at which investment and support from the FA coincided with sort of the level of the players and the development of the players in a really really perfect way and since then that's been elevating and it's been about the small margins but I would say prior to that the team were overachieving relative to investment in in 2015 and then that investment ramped up in 2017 in 2019 but it was still sort of it was growing it was like playing catch up to reaching the point that it reached in 2022 it needed that home euros to really accelerate that investment and growth and like ambition of the FA and also for the players and the sort of slightly newer generation to start coming through into that team so I feel like we've seen England benefit from investment and support above and beyond any other team and in this tournament we're seeing a lot of those nations catch up to a certain extent I think investment wise none of them are still quite at the level of the FA but the like England having to like look at the small margins in terms of the quality of the manager that they've got at their disposal who you know has proven herself along with Arjan to be very very tactically astute and intelligent and then it's it's the little things it's like the little things like the perfect environment around them when they're in camp on at a major tournament and and how they're looked after from a staffing point of view from a psychological point of view from a physical point of view from a recovery point of view and it's a lot of those smaller details that are now making the difference and keeping them slightly ahead and then obviously the squad depth which is a is a direct result of the investment in women's football over the years, right?

12:16Suzy Wrack:We've only got this incredible squad depth because we've got, within that time, a fully professional league and an almost fully professional second tier. And that's helping develop and produce top young professional players that are coming into that pool of players that they can then choose from. That's a very, very long way of saying that this tournament is harder because everyone is getting good. But at the same time, England still have various advantages in all of these little fine margins that I think is what has got them past not going out of the group, then getting past Sweden, then getting past Italy.

12:53Suzy Wrack:It's all these little things that contribute to that. It's not luck. I think luck is a silly way of looking at it. You make your own luck to a certain extent. And I think we should use luck as a positive. Every winning team in history has had a bit of luck along the way. So that is a given, but it's like constructed luck. They've made their luck here. When you look bigger picture at the development of women's football in England, the development of women's football in Europe, like it was never going to be an easy tournament and they're only going to get harder. And staying that like nose in front is a harder and harder and harder task.

13:31Yeah, consistency, really key. And actually, how you define luck is always really interesting to me. Additionally, you know, I still remember all of the question marks over the luck of being on a certain side of the draw. Well, that's interesting because you've still got to beat those, you know, difficult teams. And, you know, if you then steamroller through and it's easy, then you had luck. And if you go out, it's, you know, something different. So, yeah, I agree with you on that. Let's focus on Spain's route. So, you know, they kind of cruised through the groups as we expected them to. But they did come through a tough encounter with Switzerland before being taken all the way by Germany, who perhaps, you know, didn't have luck on their side, if you want to say that, in terms of the amount of players that they had out.

14:19But what have we learned about Spain in this tournament? I think that they are, I mean, it's probably going to sound pretty obvious. They're very, very good offensively and they rely on their ability to out-attack you and out-score you. They do have weaknesses in the back line and I think you saw that against Switzerland and against Germany when you put a fast, direct attacker up against Paredes or an Alexandre. They do struggle with that and they've struggled with that at club as well when they have that kind of quick striker who will just run at them and go through them at pace. So I think that's something that you could look at with, say, this game coming up in terms of maybe putting Lauren Hemp on that side between Onabaget and Aaron Paredes.

15:03Clara Ball for Germany was having so much joy in the spaces that they afford because Onabaget pushes up so high at times. There is space to run into and Paredes kind of struggles there. but I think they will outpossess they will outcrate you you have to keep them wide they love to operate in central areas they love to rotate in central areas that's what that midfield three the golden trio and Patrick they really love to do so force them out wide and kind of pack those central areas stop the spaces it means it's not probably going to be pretty from England it can't be but you've got to be able to take your opportunities to kind of when you hit them on the transition to break through over that midfield, use Hannah Hampton's distribution, her ability to get the ball over the midfield and send Alessia Russo or someone like that away and not worry too much that you don't have the football.

15:56It's just not... It always makes me laugh a little bit when it's talked about Spain's possession stats compared to the opposition. It's not a surprise that they are going to out-possess the football. You just need to find ways to manage that and keep them limited to opportunities, limited to shots outside the box as well, I think. Stop them getting into those areas in the penalty area where, you know, Hannibal and Mati can shift the ball into space and put it away. So it's just about being really, really disciplined and taking your chances when they come. Yeah, well, one of those key problems in 2023, Susie, was Spain dominating the midfield area, which is what Soph's just said.

16:34You know, we know their strength in that department. They've got the best midfield currently in Europe. So what do England need to do to try and disrupt their flow? Have they got to be this annoying team that almost they've come up against in Italy, as an example, that just constantly are battling and harassing them and not letting them get on the ball?

16:56Suzy Wrack:I think it's very, very difficult to not let them get on the ball. And I don't necessarily think you should try. I think the most effective teams against Spain have been the ones that have frustrated them and defensively being so solid that they start, I think it's a mental game. I think it's a little bit of psychological warfare and it's about making them as frustrated as possible and not being able to, you know, make that final pass, take that shot. Like it's about having a perfect defensive display and the midfield is critical to that. I think you've got to set up for them. Like I know it's a play to your own strengths and, you know, don't worry too much about the opposition and things like that.

17:37Suzy Wrack:I think in Spain it's a different case because there is a way to play against them that can be super effective if you're really smart with it. And when you look at the game against Spain back in February at Wembley, like that was a really, really strong and solid defensive performance that we built on and then grabbed a goal. Jess Park, wonderful strike. So it's that kind of performance that we've got to be looking at or even like, you know, obviously club football, but Arsenal against Barcelona in the Champions League final. or massive underdogs. No one thought they had a chance in that game.

18:08Suzy Wrack:Tactically, really, really astute. And I would say perfect defensive performance in the entire back line didn't concede a single foul in that game, which is just really unheard of. And that is the sort of level that you need to defensively be at to frustrate Spain to an extent where they start getting a little bit scrappy and desperate, which is really, really, really difficult to do. But I think you don't try and match them ball for ball in midfield I think if you try like I think you do have to obviously have a fairly aggressive press but you also can't get too tired in that because you're going to be chasing shadows for most of that game most likely so you don't want to wear yourself out you want to be effective on the break and you want to be on it physically and mentally defensively so like I think that's the key is to not not try and physically disrupt that midfield flow but mentally disrupt it through like being really as Soph said really disciplined and uh like yeah particularly really disciplined defensively and really mentally disrupting their flow that's really fascinating I want to talk about the mental side of it in a second and it's really interesting actually if that's the route we're either going to see like a crazy cagey affair or a really fun game because both you mentioned Spain's defensive problems earlier on Soph England have had you know lots of defensive frailties throughout this tournament so how do both sides then exploit that because I think we're in for a really fun game if you know the defensive showings that we've seen from both the teams are on display on Sunday yeah I think you're right I think it could go one of Two ways.

19:52I personally delight in the kind of cagey-ness of games sometimes. I know people love like 5-4 fixtures and that could happen, I guess. But I love seeing teams come up against each other tactically and what they're doing. and if you look back to February and then the subsequent meeting between them and the Nations League in June in February, England, as Susie said kind of packed out that midfield that trio just worked so hard and they kind of gave up on their you know, in possession responsibilities a little bit so I think someone like Grace Clinton for me she had a brilliant game because she was hassling and harrying and chasing down every single player in that midfield on the ball she maybe wasn't quite as good as we've seen her or wasn't able to be quite as good or creative as we've seen her and what she's known for but she had that tenacity and that bravery and the same with Kira Walsh in those areas to really really break down those spaces and close down those spaces and you saw that as well in the first half in June you know England were being outpossessed once again but they got got ahead they got that goal and I think everything changed in the second half partly from Spain's substitutions but also by England's you know bringing on Missy Bocans who's a brilliant young talent but it was her debut and she was coming on to face that midfield you're like there's a change in the level there right because of the necessity of having george stanway only doing 45 minutes all of that stuff the loading and and things like that so i think it's going to be a fascinating battle between the two of them i don't think it will be high scoring personally i think it will be um if you're looking at even the world cup final it was a while everyone while spain were definitely the better team on that day They only got one goal because of the nature of these two teams and the way they do have these mentalities.

21:37I think that is what sets them apart from the rest is that edge mentally to be able to dig in, be patient and get something over the line. One goal, but lots of drama. And I'll take that because I want lots of drama. I like a spectacle, not a cagey tactical affair. I'm very route one. And the mental resilience, actually, Susie, is something that we've spoken about with both these teams. Obviously, we've talked at length of Aitana Bon-Mati coming back from having viral meningitis and being in hospital just days before the start of the tournament to coming and scoring the winner in their semifinal to what they went through in 2023, which only concluded in February, the trial with Luis Rubiales being convicted of sexual assault.

22:24They've had so much going on behind the scenes, battles with the Spanish Federation, etc. Then you fast forward to the Lionesses and their mental strength in this tournament, injuries, players dropping out, you know, big game players as well and players that were part of the 2022 European winning squad. it's a different type of mental resilience of course but equally what's gone on with Jess Carter off the pitch and the players all coming together in support of her and I'm sure that we'll hear more on that going forward both of these sides have an incredible mental resilience that sets them apart from from everybody else how do they then channel that in this moment on the pitch coming up against the same because it's not their USP in a game like this.

23:13Suzy Wrack:Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Because like, you know, when you were putting it like that, all I was thinking was, is the reality now that both of those teams have that sort of never say die mental attitude that we've always associated with the Americans, you know, that we are going to win this game regardless of what the score is, like attitude, this is ours, like that sort of swagger that comes from believing that you deserve to be properly respected, looked after, like have the right systems around you, support staff, like equipment facilities, all of that. And I think that's possibly true.

23:47Suzy Wrack:I think both of these sides are the first two really to feel that level of correct entitlement about what they deserve as elite athletes. And that is what we're seeing in that mental side of things when they go on the pitch as well and I think that's like really thrilling and I know it's a Spain England final and everyone kind of wants that because it's becoming quite a special rivalry but I was half looking forward to a potential England Germany final two teams that have like completely completely battled and got lucky in the good way like right like making your own luck to get there going up against each other I thought it would be like the battle of the uh of the sort of underdogs throughout would be quite like thrilling in a way but yeah I mean I think uh the mental battle is going to be really tough and the as I was saying earlier the way to beat Spain is to mentally frustrate them and get them like starting to get frustrated on the pitch and that's a difficult thing to do but it is doable because we've seen teams do it England were the last team to beat them um 11 games ago so I struggle with this tie and picking a winner which is going to be great for our predictions because whilst England have the the better investment the better support the better league around it in terms of like the development of it and the investment in it the commitment to it not always the quality on the pitch like I think they're you know much more even uh than people would like sometimes suggest in that respect.

25:27Suzy Wrack:But there's this way of playing in Spain and this identity that they've all grown up with that is embedded into the very fibre of their being that makes them able to compete with that. And so you've got this super funded, super tactically astute team against this team that lives and breathes a style of football clashing. And that excites me. And I don't know what's going to happen. and the mental aspect within that is a special thing. I'm even more psyched up for the final than I was. That was almost like, I think you should be going in and doing the team talk, Susie. I want to know about the key battles, Soph.

26:06Which players are you most intrigued to see go up against each other? Yeah, I think, as I mentioned before, that midfield area, you know, the likes of Kira Walsh, the likes of Itana Bonmati and how that goes. They know each other so well from playing at Barcelona together. they do know each other inside out and stuff like that so that's going to be fascinating I think Alessia Russo starting against Paredes that's going to be yeah I think Alessia Russo gets a lot of stick you know because she hasn't been scoring that many goals this tournament but I think she deserves as much credit as a lot of others for coming on she sets it up for the finishers right she tires she runs and runs and runs she's tires the defenders out she stretches that play they can't keep up with her and then by the time you bring on a on a finisher and it was the same in the Champions League final with Stia Blackstanias when she came on the the legs are gone and the defenders and that's partly down to Alessio Russo's work her off the ball work is really key so I'm going to be fascinated by that and I do think Lauren Hemp will come into it a lot you know that pace that she has the way that she can just turn on the burners and leave you in the mud behind behind her is going to be crucial we saw that with Germany with Clarabool as I mentioned before.

27:14So they're going to be key. And then up the other end, I guess, you know, Esther Gonzalez in the form of her career at the moment, for club and country, you know, she's going to be quite a handful for the back line for England. For that Leah Williamson and Esme Morgan, I imagine, partnership that is quite pretty young. I mean, it's only a game old. So, well, they've had a couple of moments throughout the season, but it's generally a pretty young partnership. So how they handle her and deal with that kind of direct threat that she offers, where she won't just pass through you, is just going to be fascinating.

27:46Yeah, I'm fascinated by so many battles across the pitch, but I know Matchday Minus One, we're recording this on Friday morning, Matchday Minus One is on Saturday and Serena Vigman notoriously keeps her cards very close to her chest. But do we have any update on Lauren James? No, nothing yet, Susie. No, nothing.

28:06Suzy Wrack:And yeah, they do keep their cards very, very close to their chest. They were very, very cagey on Leo Williamson's availability like right up until match day minus one training ahead of the semi-final and I imagine there'll be similar league Aji here. I mean my feeling with Lauren James is that you know absolutely phenomenal talent and as I said in the preview episodes I would take a very very broken Lauren James to a major tournament because she's able to provide a moment of magic You said with gangrene actually not just broken, with gangrene Exactly, with gangrene in a leg that's about to fall out off or whatever it was but um like you've seen that she's not completely fit in this tournament and can't really do 90 minutes and that's no criticism of her it's a fact of the fact that she hasn't played a lot of football and really really potentially rushed back from that injury to be fit and ready which is hugely admirable she's clearly worked really really hard to do it and is like you know the talent in this England team like the key like creative like superhuman spark genius exactly um so you you want her you want her really badly but also now I think they have to be really smart about the way they use her in this final um and I don't think that is necessarily like starting as harsh as that sounds when you've got a generational talent like her but I think you have to use her a moment in the game when you need sort of 15-20 minutes of magic to potentially change things because she is struggling across the full length of a match at the moment and so then I think you have to be really tactically smart about the way you use her and when you use her.

29:49Yeah you could tell that in the Italy game she was quite quiet during that game and then we found out why but I always it's so difficult I mean Serena Wigman will know the right thing to do but I always think that Lauren James is much better from the start of game rather than as an impact sub because it takes her a little while to get into the game but happy to be corrected on that but in terms of the squad depth the good thing is we're not sitting there saying oh god if we lose Lauren James we've got nothing because England have already proved how strong they are from the bench but equally so have Spain so again you know we talked about the the resilience piece in terms of being a USP in this never say die attitude Squad depth has been England's USP throughout this tournament, but Spain have exactly the same.

30:34So whose bench could make the difference and which coach, if either, are likely to make changes from the beginning? I still think that in terms of squad depth, yes, Spain have a lot of squad depth, there's no denying that. And, you know, Athenea has not been playing from the start. She comes off the bench, she can unlock a defence. But I think in terms of when you look at England's creative players and the variety that they have, in terms of who they can bring on, that is a bit of a difference. You know, when you're thinking about Chloe Kelly, who can send in those crosses like nobody's businesses, she can put it on the money pretty much every single time.