Manchester City crowned champions as WSL season wraps up – Women’s Football Weekly

24:57So I'm so excited to see what she can do. Olivia Holt as well has been a standout. They're building something very, very fresh and exciting. I think Martin Ho is known for his tactical side, his acumen in kind of the game plan, but also in terms of his player management. I think he's very, gets them all to buy into the project and they're very excited about that. And I'm sure he's going to bring in some players over the summer as well. I think he has great connections, say in the Swedish and Nordic leagues as well. So I wouldn't be surprised if a few head over from there, but I think it's very exciting.

25:32Listen, it's Tuesday as we record this as always and the pod comes out, but if you're listening to this on a different day, how much is Tottenham men's side potential relegation? How much could that affect things? Similar question with West Ham in part two, Susie.

25:49Suzy Wrack:Yeah, I mean, they're saying that it won't. You know, that's the messaging and you would hope that would be the messaging. And I think to a certain extent it won't in that they will, and I'm pretty sure that this is the case, that they are ring-fencing the women's budget and set up. But the thing is, is I think it's the wider knock on impact. You know, when the club goes down, there's inevitably going to be ramifications across the entire club. You know, if you're looking at, say, and I'm just like being completely hypothetical here, but say, you know, a marketing team, right? Like say a marketing team experiences a cut to personnel because the men's team have gone down and then, you know, they're responsible for both the men's and women's say.

26:29Suzy Wrack:then what then becomes the priority and how is that focus then divided because that I think is where you will see the kind of cuts that could happen at Spurs if that were to happen it's likely that they stay up now so I don't think you know it's a big hypothetical but at the same time I think that that is like regardless of how ring thanks the budget is for the women's setup you know when a club like experiences that hit I think you get then the the ramifications of what what cuts could potentially mean in the departments that are shared and that is the thing that I worry about slightly. Yeah what about Kirsty Hansen arriving in the summer she's been reported to be going there they're obviously going to be looking to reinforce aren't they?

27:10Oh definitely

27:11Suzy Wrack:it's a really interesting thing right because I think a lot of Spurs fans will be kind of slightly bemused you know confused about Beth England being let go given the number of goals she's scored this season for them but at the same time I think you know the best managers know when it's time to move a player on she's had her injury problems even though you know she's still been scoring goals for them and I think the recruitment policy at Spurs has been so strong that there can be a lot of like confidence in the type of player that they're going to bring in and the the ambition for the project it's quite obvious that they're not wanting to take any kind of step back they're only looking to take step forwards at the moment so I think there's exciting times and they can be ambitious right like I was even thinking I know that you know this is wildly like out of the question like Samco is likely going to the states as you know many have expect and Bunny Short I mean at this stage I think she probably will stay at City just because the optics of how bad it would look if she goes but you know could end up at Chelsea or somewhere like that but like I feel like Spurs are starting to reach a level where they could have the ambition of going for some of those players like that but I feel like you know there is a legitimate interest now in the Spurs project and what is being done there and that players are starting to take it seriously and that they can be quite ambitious in the players they're looking for to strengthen.

28:26Suzy Wrack:So I also love that they're getting all these young players and stuff coming into their side and are doing great things. And Tokugawa, I agree, arguably the signing of the season. Yeah, I think they can be really ambitious and there's exciting times. And so I think whilst players are outgoing, I'm not too worried about what the future looks like for them in terms of signings. It's going to be fascinating, isn't it? Right, we've got seven more teams to go through. That's it for part one of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. In part two, we will look at the rest of the Barclays WSL.

29:08Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Let's carry on with our mini report card. London City Lionesses up next. Freya Godfrey's 93rd minute goal made sure that they got a sixth place finish for their first season in the top flight. Despite that achievement, not always been the smoothest of campaigns. You'll remember they sacked Jocelyn Prashur and appointed Ida Maistre. What have you made of their campaign overall, Susie? Successful.

29:36Suzy Wrack:Like to finish that high up the table in your first season in the top flight, I think has to be viewed as a success. Yeah, there's a big gap. Nine points, I think, between them and Spurs in fifth. But to have sort of set your stall out as that kind of middle table team in your first year is incredibly strong. Do I think they should have got rid of Prashore when they did? No. Do I think they've been OK since Eder came in? Yes. But at the same time, I don't think that was a change that was necessary. I feel like they just need some kind of like consistency to their signings. If Pateas rocks up, then that will be obviously like a dramatic shift in their ambitions in terms of like the level of player they've been signing.

30:25Suzy Wrack:And they're just such an unknown, right? Like what the hell is going to happen this summer? I've got no clue. I don't know what team rocks up next season. Is it going to be another team of like slightly disjointed, slightly aging superstars with some fantastically good talent? or is it going to be a focus on some of the sort of future you know I almost think it's like the antithesis to Spurs project in that Spurs are really kind of building for the long term and a team that is going to kind of like really deliver for them over years and years whereas London City are going for the team that is going to deliver something now but then what it looks like beyond a year two years like that squad will be completely different so it's a really like interesting like opposites.

31:08Yeah yeah I know exactly what you mean. Another team looking for the long term and they have been for a while is Brighton. Unable to build on last year's fifth place finish but they have made progress because they've made history reaching the FA Cup final for the first time. Lots of buzz around the team in recent weeks Soph as you would expect. How do you rate their season overall and how excited should fans be about the summer they have in prospect and of course that wonderful new stadium? They should be excited about the project going forward. I do think the season has been up and down and I am probably not as hyped about them as many other people.

31:46I think they've shown a really strong finish to the season and that's really positive going into the summer and foundations built. But I do think they were a bit too up and down in those first six months or so. I know there is context as well with the death of Dario Fidicic's father in the spring or in February. So that had a huge impact and you have to take that into account. But I do think they need to start looking. I think they've got some really good ideas. We know the way that Dario likes to play football. He is starting to find players that really implement that style of football. But it's more about the consistency side of things and they are absolutely desperate for a striker.

32:26I think that's been the huge problem this year. As soon as Michel Adjaman got that ACL, And they didn't replace her at Christmas. They really, really struggled in terms of goals. And they were using Fran Kirby up front. We know Fran Kirby is brilliant. Kiko Seike had a lot of the burden put on her. She is brilliant as well. But you can't rely on one or two players. You have to have that number. Neither of them are out and out number nine. So you have to kind of, I think that's their main key. And if I were them, I'd go after someone like Bethany England. I think that would be a very good match.

32:59She's very good friends with Fran Kirby as well. They played together for a long time at a club and I would think that would be quite a good idea. Yeah, that's a good fit for sure. Talk to me about the Toffees, Marva. Topsy-turvy, I think it's fair to say. There was a point where we kept getting you on only ever after losses and I felt really guilty about it. But Brian Sorensen was sacked in February. That feels like such a long time ago, by the way. Scott Phelan took over in the interim role. He said that they've not had any discussions over his future yet, which is surprising. When you kind of look back on it with these kind of lenses, was an eighth place finish actually a success?

33:42And has he done enough to get the job or do they need to be looking further afield? I think it's hard to say it's a success when I know the club are a lot more ambitious than that. You look at the move into Goodison Park, even the way they've switched up, how they've run the club and what they're aiming for commercially as well for the women's team. This isn't a club that wants to be finishing eighth or is aiming to be finishing eighth or is even putting in the amount of work that they're putting in doesn't show that it should be an eighth side. But when you consider that, yeah, we were in amongst it for relegation playoffs for a good part of the season, then of course, yes, I'm grateful that we're not in amongst that.

34:22But I think that kind of sums up the club and where we're at at the moment, both men's and women's, is that the focus really this season has been on stability after so many years of turmoil. I think Scott Finn has given the club a lot to think about, which is, yes, a positive thing. I really don't think they were planning to keep them on long term. But I think he's brought in that stability that is needed. But then he also hasn't sort of been so incredible that it's just a definite yes. and I think you could maybe argue that actually him coming in and showing what these players can do is more of a sign on what Sorensen wasn't doing towards the end there rather than just like how brilliant feeling is but I do know that he is very sort of well respected in amongst the club even sort of former men's players as well talk about working with him in the academy and just what a great coach he is and just a great guy he is so I know he is very well respected there but I think to really push on whether they decide they want to do that next season or maybe the seasons after I'm not sure he will be the person for the job but if they want another year of just a bit of stability I think he can offer that

35:28Suzy Wrack:They need some goal scorers don't they as well I mean like you look at the top 20 WSL goal scorers there's not a single Everton player and like not only that there's not a single one in the assist charts either the top 20 for assists they're the only WSL team to not have a player on either of those lists I feel like we've been saying that for about three or four seasons, though. We have. That's the problem, right? This is where Sorensen does come into it because it looked like Kelly Gago was completely out. And I think, honestly, Kelly Gago is one of the top strikers in the WSL. She went to a top club.

35:59I think she would get into a lot of starting 11s. She really fell out with Sorensen and his team. So the fact that it was looking like she was definitely going to exit and then Phelan's coming and she's been back playing. I don't know if we'll keep her. I think it's unlikely. However, again, it just kind of goes to show a lot of the difficulties that were there. And it's a shame because I think she's such a top talent and it feels like that's a talent we've kind of squandered. Another team who feels like it's maybe squandered some talent is Aston Villa. It's been a really strange season for them, Susie.

36:33Sixth in terms of goals scored, but we're only second to Leicester in terms of goals conceded. So surely those stats suggest that consolidating the back line has to be the focus over the summer.

36:44Suzy Wrack:yep and uh you know like kirstie hansen i think you've already mentioned that her future at the club is in the air there's bob going to be loads of teams sniffing around her after the seasons that she's had so then you also need to think about where the goals are going to come from if uh she goes as well because they can't just uh rely on the one player for that as we know so yeah it's going to be a really really interesting summer they've got a great sort of set up there Maggie Murphy in charge of things you know I think they've got a very good coach albeit one that you know hasn't had the most consistent of seasons but I think there's real promise with Aston Villa and I think that's what we said again every single year for the past like four years since they since they kind of you know were on the cusp of breaking into the top four and then had that disastrous campaign the following year I feel like every single year we've said well there's real potential in this squad and I think yeah shoring up the back line but then some you know kind of decent attacking options that really kind of can develop in that side is is really really critical if they keep hold of Hansen that would be the dream as well I mean she's been phenomenal I interviewed her a few two seasons ago now I want to say and she talked about wanting to add goals to her game and finishing on 12 goals you know one behind Alessio Russo is ahead of Mirdamer, Blaxtenius, like that's just hugely impressive.

38:06Suzy Wrack:Goal of the season as well? Fantastic goal too, like really nice goal. Well, like such a beautifully worked corner routine rising into the top corner. It's beautiful. It's a really nice goal. I've watched it a few times. Yeah, like again, another really interesting summer. They need action. They need like to really kind of put their money where their mouth is and deliver the players that are going to kind of elevate that team up a gear. But it feels like there is a base there to build from. West Ham, where is that base? They obviously had another managerial change halfway through after Rhian Skinner left.

38:46But how did the arrival of Rita Guarino change their fortunes? Soph, have you seen enough to get excited about the future? And similar question that I had with Spurs, because actually it looks more likely that it's West Ham who are going to be relegated to the championship in the men's game? Yeah, so I worry about the club as a whole at West Ham because they don't give enough attention to the women's side and I think we've seen that from board level up. I don't think that reflects on the squad itself. They've been through a manager of a merry-go-round in recent years. They've had a manager for two years, they've sacked them.

39:20They never quite put the investment into the playing squad. I remember when Rhianne Skinner was in charge and she said, we really need to stop signing players in one-year contracts because you can never have a summer without turnover. If you're going to have people on really short contracts, they need to start building something for the future. And I think she did start to change that when she was in. I think there is excitement for the future. I think Rita's brought a breath of fresh air. They play with real structure. I was on the touchline watching them against Man City at the weekend. And despite the score, they stayed in the game for a good 70, 75 minutes of it until Bunny Shore did.

39:56bunny sure things but they you know they responded well to going behind to an early goal they're really energetic in midfield una sarin is a really good player she's really uh you know brings the tenacity um and energy and drives them forward and she's been ever present they've probably got a bit to work out in their back line i think a lot of where their season went wrong early doors is they didn't take the chances that they did create you know they were creating opportunities in front of goal that should have been goals and for me that was you know when your tactics are working but you're not quite like getting it over the line that's on kind of the player side of mentality the mentality side so that probably needs a bit of work over the summer but they've got a talented squad there's no doubt there's talent in there I'm sure Rita will start to build and and find she's got a lot of links to Italy you know and and she's well known in the game so I think there is hope for the future for a better year next year.

40:53Hope as well for Liverpool obviously a club and a team that have been through so much in the past nine months after the loss of Matt Beard securing their safety by some margin was a huge relief I'm sure for Gareth Taylor how do you reflect on their season within the context of everything that's happened Susie? Arguably like

41:12Suzy Wrack:a big success. You know, given sort of how the first half of the season went to, you know, kind of climb substantially above Leicester in the end, I think is a huge achievement. And to only be sort of two points off West Ham, three off Villa, like even just six off Everton, like given where they were, it's a phenomenal turnaround. And I think that Gareth Taylor has done a remarkable job after being given a little bit of money in January to bring in some players. And I think they were really astute with those players Denise O'Sullivan, Jennifer Falk, I think in particular, have been hugely influential in sort of turning around their season.

41:51Suzy Wrack:But there's, you know, such a big job to do there. And you hope that the boards really back Gareth Taylor after the kind of second half of the season and how he's shown what he can do when he's given the resources to a small extent to be able to make a difference. The fact that they made semi-final of the FA Cup as well, like huge, huge achievement and really, really pushed Brighton all the way in that game as well. So, yeah, really good. I mean, and some like indication that they're already like doing that in that they've already announced their first signing in Vivian Enderman as well. Young attacking German talent from Wolfsburg.

42:29Suzy Wrack:Like there's clearly the ambition to do something there, how they cope with the loss of Gemma Bonner in particular, who was obviously so influential, both on the pitch, but also sort of in terms of like legacy and, you know, off the pitch and like culture and things I think is a big one. But if they give him some resource, I think they could have a decent season next year. It's going to be really, really tough with the teams that are coming up who are spending so ambitiously. And the ambition of the likes of London City Lionesses and Spurs and things like that, it's a difficult, difficult place to be.

43:00Suzy Wrack:But there's no reason why they couldn't be doing better than they are and did this season if the club backed them. But that has historically been a problem with Liverpool for no clear reason. yeah and I as you said I think the huge context behind this is the loss of Matt at the beginning of the season I think we underestimate how much grief can affect people but also teams and how you bring that together so I think it's actually quite remarkable how they managed to turn it around in January and and find a way forward because you know I was at the WSL Awards last night and Matt Beard was inducted quite rightly into the WSL Hall of Fame.

43:43His brother was there and did a speech. It just reminds you how much pressure these managers are under. I think it's just a good reminder for all of us. We do these podcasts and it's our job to commentate on the game, but just thinking about the humans at the bottom of it is still really important. All too often, I think that gets forgotten. There was a really strong message last night from his speech about that. there wasn't a dry out in the house and I think it's still just good to remember that this season has been hugely defined by what happened at the beginning of the year in terms of a lot of players and a lot of coaches and a lot of us had relationships with Matt Beard and it's really been a defining moment and I think that's a context behind everything.

44:30Suzy Wrack:It's as you said earlier so same for Brighton right like the impact of Dario losing his dad them losing a member of the coaching staff mid-season clearly had an impact and obviously Beardy's legacy and relationship with so many players like not just at Liverpool but like across the league as well like it was just so huge and it's horrible having to do our job sometimes and criticise managers for the job that they are doing like no one like no one else really has their like their work so scrutinised publicly to the point at which it can be the difference between whether they get sacked or And I think it's so like particularly hard in the women's game where the scramble for resources is so real and the discrepancies across leagues, across teams is so, so vast that, you know, often you're criticising someone for something that is just not their fault.

45:23Suzy Wrack:is like out of their control that you're you know that they are doing the best they can with the bare minimum and it's one of the things I always like try and put that context in because it is like I just cannot imagine what it is like to try and do a job you know when you look at say Rhiann Skinner at West Ham previously or you know there's just so many where you're trying so hard and there comes a point where something has to change and the player's morale is so low because things aren't going right that the manager almost has to go but at the same time they have just not been given the right resource to be able to kind of give them a chance and to you know to show what they can actually do and I just like yeah that I think that context is so important and it's such a and a tough job to do and well to operate in and these aren't managers being paid millions and millions like the managers in the men's game are at the top level like they are not earning a lot a job isn't always around the corner and you know a lot of them have families a lot of them have to move their families you know a huge expense and upheaval in a way that the men's don't experience yes they have to make those moves but they have the resource to be able to do it yeah I just think everyone fans us players need to have much more kindness towards managers and the situation they're in.

46:45Yeah, very well said, both of you. I feel uncomfortable then switching into talking about Leicester City and what's been a disappointing campaign for them. It was a bright start, but they fell away, not won a game since December. What do you think were the core reasons for them struggling so badly, Marva? I think it's squad, squad depth, squad talent. I mean, when you sort of looked at their team on paper at the beginning of the season, a lot of us predicted that they would struggle and actually they outperformed what a lot of us expected in the beginning bit of the season but I think that's really where the troubles have come in because when you look at the beginning of the season even in games they were performing actually quite well I think defensively they were pretty well structured and they were bringing it to teams it wasn't like they were shipping sort of seven goals like we then saw towards the end of season.

47:38But the problem then was that they didn't have that, you know, even Shakira Martinez or players like this for West Ham or Olsen who popped up with some really crucial goals for Liverpool. They didn't have that striker who really could just give them what they deserved in terms of their overall performance. O 'Brien, I think, has been really good towards the end of the season. But also when you look at, we spoke about relegation for the men's team and Leicester are a team we haven't included in that. But back-to-back relegations for the men's team, I think, has really contributed. You look at the selling of Ruby Mace.

48:12Their fans were gutted to lose her. And it's such a young talent to sell for a big fee. And I think it shows kind of where they are as a club in terms of what they have to do and where their priorities are. It's a shame for them, but obviously it's a year where there is a playoff. So it's not all done just yet. But difficult for them because I think they did start well. they did do kind of what they could. But I think overall, when you look at the squads and comparing their January transfer windows as well, I just think it was just a bit too much of a challenge for them. Yeah, light at the end of the tunnel though, Soph.

48:45They face Charlton at the Valley on Saturday for that final spot in the WSL. We did mention this game the other week and how losing out on the final day in the Barclays WSL 2 might affect Charlton mentally. But what are you expecting from the encounter overall? I think player for player, Leicester have the better squad. So I do think they are favourites to win, especially given Charlton's form. We talked about it before, right? It's dipped off the edge of a cliff in the second half of the season, having had that really, really strong points lead in WSL 2 and the lack of morale that comes with that dip in form.

49:26Obviously, Charlton will be giving it absolutely everything and they do have quality in their squad. but I think when you look at the likes of Emily Van Egmond, Hannah Kane, you've just got Shannon O 'Brien, as Marva said, who's been having a brilliant season. You need a light stick. They've got quality within their ranks who can be able to do it but that 96-minute winner for Everton will have been an absolute gutter because I think they could have taken a lot from that draw especially given the last few weeks and I think they could have taken a lot from that loss to Chelsea, the 3-1 loss to Chelsea that came so quickly after that 7-0 defeat to Arsenal.

50:02It's about building on those things that have been positive and focusing on them. And, you know, it's been a really hard job for Rick Parsmal. I think coming in, sacking a manager 10 days before the start of a season really disrupts everything. And I think you had a bounce a little bit at the start of the season and a knock-on effect from that kind of came later. And they just need to get the job done. Then they can think about next year and try and build. I would expect them to win this game. Minister of Mayhem, Marva, is even without her neutral hat on going, oh, Everton still had the last laugh.

50:39Also on Saturday, by the way, it's the Champions League final. Lyon taking on Barcelona. You're heading out to Oslo. Susie, what are you expecting from this one? I've got absolutely no idea.

50:50Suzy Wrack:I've seen these teams play. Hopefully we'll just see a really good game of football. I've seen these teams play three times in Champions League finals. It's been different every single time. Jonathan Geraldez, who delivered Barcelona's second Champions League trophy as manager of Barcelona, is now at Lyon. They look a completely different beast to sort of where they were last season and are playing some really, really wonderful attacking football. If you're going to highlight a problem with Barcelona, it'd probably be defensively. so there's a really exciting matchup here I remember that 2022 final where Lyon won and beat Barcelona 3-1 and it was very much against expectations for that game I'd say like it was you know everyone thought that Barcelona couldn't retain their crown that Lyon's like dynasty was over and then they had that incredible three goals within the first half an hour or so slightly more than half an hour.

51:49Suzy Wrack:Hegerberg scoring, Omri scoring, Macario, and totally blew them out of the water. And I could see that potentially being the case this time because they are a really, really potent attacking force at the moment, playing so well. Domane has been phenomenal, arguably one of the best players in the world at the moment. So I think it's going to be a really, really exciting contest and I'm looking forward to it. And it's kind and ice not having any skin in the game this season. Yeah, you get to enjoy the spectacle, so to speak. You'll also hopefully get to enjoy a couple of England games coming up.

52:26The squad was announced this morning for the final set of World Cup qualifiers against Spain and Ukraine. Just a reminder for you, the Lionesses are still the only team who've won all their games so far, but they have to secure first place in order to qualify automatically for Brazil. Tom Gary has been at St. George's Park and can tell us all. Hello Faye and all the team. Tom here at St George's Park where we've just heard from the England head coach Serena Vigman. She's recalled Ella Toon, Freya Godfrey and Aggie Biva-Jones after injury to her England squad before the qualifiers against Spain and Ukraine that are coming up in early June.

53:04England of course in pole position at the moment to qualify automatically. Luckily, Serena Vigman did say that it was really nice to have Ella Toon back, but she wasn't 100 % sure yet if the Manchester United midfielder could play a full 90 minutes at the highest level. But she's got a couple of weeks to show that in training between now and the Spain game. Vigman was also asked a lot of questions about the future of some of her top players. The futures of Beth Mead, for example, who the Guardian understands is close to a move to Manchester City. Serena Veeman said that actually for a player like Beth Mead her next move is very important in terms of her chances of going to the World Cup Veeman was clearly sort of sending a little message out that match minutes and regular playing minutes next season is going to be crucial for all those players who want to go to the World Cup in Brazil so she's keeping a keen eye I think on the summer transfer movements of some of her top players as they all hope to try and play at the World Cup in a year's time.

54:05And England will speak again in a couple of weeks' time as they prepare to face Spain in Mallorca, knowing that a draw or a win would see them qualify automatically for Brazil. Brilliant stuff. Thank you very much, Tom. Right, do you know what? I actually think, in terms of the Barclays WSL, that our predictions were better than they have ever been. I'm not sure whether that is necessarily a good thing for the league. We like it to be topsy-turvy. And actually, I feel like our identity has been stripped from us. but you know you can pretty much work out that teams who don't have Champions League football might have a better chance of winning the league well done Manchester City it has been a pleasure as always Marva continue to make mischief see you soon thank you will do so always lovely to see you great to be on

54:55Suzy Wrack:Susie Rack see you soon for a coffee it's going to happen it's going to happen before like I saw you last week I know but not we've not like met up independently for a coffee yet, have we? Across the entire season. I mean, we had plenty of like coffees and lunches and things at events. But I feel like if we return to the podcast ahead of the new WSL season and we haven't done it, then we deserve like, you know, to be castigated by the podcast fan base. When I'm back from North America, it's on. I'm taking a lot of time off after that. right keep having your say send in your questions via X or emailing us at womensfootballweekly at theguardian.com until then this is also your reminder to sign up for our bi-weekly women's football newsletter all you need to do is search moving the goalposts sign up the Guardian Women's Football Weekly is produced by Sophie Downey and Silas Gray music composition was by Laura Iredale our executive producer is Joel Grove

55:56this is the Guardian

56:01you