Manchester is sky blue and Chelsea stumble again – Women’s Football Weekly

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:30and I think Sky's Halo concept has had enough of a beating this week so we'll discuss it in the wider context and ask why so many brands struggle to connect with women's sports fans. In the actual football, Manchester is blue, City take charge in the derby and now the table as Chelsea drop points again, this time against Liverpool. Who saw that coming? And West Ham finally get three points on the board after beating Everton. We'll dissect all the action from the weekend, ask if in-game interviews should be scrapped, plus we'll take your questions. and that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly.

1:06What a panel we have today. Susie Rack, how are you doing? Well, I know this is a very silly question because we've just talked about the fact that you're not feeling particularly well. Yeah, I mean, given we just paused the start because I thought I was going to vomit, it's probably not a good indication or a good indication of exactly how I'm feeling. But other than that, I'm actually all right. Good, I'm glad to hear it. If we do sound a bit weird and pause or need to put in some kind of lift music sound effects, it is because Susie has had to disappear. We have a debutante this morning, Aisha Gulati, how are you?

1:43I'm very well, thank you, Faye. Thanks so much for having me. We're very much looking forward to it and I feel like we need to drumroll our next guest. Dr Chris Poweros is in the house. with a new prefix. How are you? I'm very good. It's quite exciting. And thank you for shouting it out because I am quite proud of myself, I've got to say. We're very proud of you on the pod. It was a bit girly, actually. I did when I saw your stuff come up on social media go, oh, yes, Chris. An element of girly came in. Nothing wrong with that. Right, listen, it was the first Manchester Derby of the season at the Etihad on Saturday.

2:24City, breezed past United thanks to three first-half goals from Rebecca Canack, Bunny Shaw and Lauren Hemp, which along with other results then consolidated their position at the top of the Barclays WSL. Eight straight wins for Manchester City now. They've got a four-point lead at the top of the table. Susie, what did you make of their performance? Can they win the title? Yes, is the answer. In journalism, never ask a closed question. I just did exactly that. Yeah, there's a few managers, isn't there, where you are, if you ask a closed question, they literally just give you the flat answer. Then you're like, oh, God, OK.

3:04I think it's deserved, to be fair. Yeah, they for sure can. No Champions League, absolutely flying dominant performance, really strong squad depth. They've got everything going for them. I think if they don't win it this year, then they've massively dropped the ball, right? like hugely that's the reality of it yeah without a doubt um andre jaglats was asked what he was most pleased about in terms of the performance and he said i think probably the adaptability in our defending i think when we started it was very clear on how i wanted it to be done but i needed to adjust how we do that but also playing more man-to-man which we're doing partly in the games i was a little bit worried that would take a little bit longer but they're very good at it I mean, we always talk a lot, Aisha, about City's attack, but their defence is really impressive, particularly bearing in mind they're without Alex Greenwood at the moment.

3:57It really nullified Jess Park and Elizabeth Turland, didn't it? Yeah, it really did. I think keeping a clean sheet against your Manchester rivals is no mean feat. I think I went into this game expecting a draw, so I was totally wrong. I expected a lot of goals, so I guess I was somewhat right. but I did expect United to score and yeah that is testament to City's back line and it feels like even without Alex Greenwood and a couple of other players it is still just they do look back to their best and that squad depth is something that has really looked bolstered this season but I think more than that just the energy that you're seeing just all over the pitch and that has to come from the manager that new lease of life that a Yaglet seem to have injected into this City team.

4:45I mean, any score sheet featuring Barney Shaw and Lauren Hemp implies that City are back to their best. And it is really, really good to see. Yeah. And by the way, you're in good company on the Guardian Women's Football Weekly because we always get our predictions wrong. So already you've got a big tick next to you. No shots on target, Chris, for Manchester United. Where did it go wrong? They didn't know how to deal with Manchester City and they just looked a bit disjointed. Not really sure why. But, you know, I'm definitely here for it. Not a fan of Manchester United. Sorry, Man United fans. But yeah, I mean, City just look really impressive.

5:22And, you know, I would say that Kirsten Kaspari is arguably the player of the season so far. You know, like that ball that she played in, but just her kind of her work rate, her activism. Love it. You know, all of that. But Manchester United just, there was an opportunity for them there to kind of sort of cement where they had a good start to the season. But they just didn't come out of the traps, really. I'm not entirely sure why. I'd love to hear what others think, but they just didn't look right. But also, Manchester City just properly put them to the sword, exactly as Aisha's just said. When Lauren Hemp is playing like that, when Kirsten Kaspari is playing like that, when you play any kind of ball, like the balls that are playing into the box, when you've got Bunny Shaw on the end of them, it's like terrifying.

6:04the fact that she didn't score four more was you know is probably the biggest surprise I love Kirsten Kasperi so much I've interviewed her a couple of times and she's just the most wonderful human being in like so many ways and obviously her advocacy is incredible on United I think like the Champions League and the depth of their squad is the key issue right like they played what three days before two days before something like that so the turnarounds I probably only had one training session before that game the turnaround was really tight and they have not strengthened enough in the summer for competitions.

6:42Like they're just, that's the reality. Like the, you know, the club have rested on their laurels a little bit. We've got Champions League football, so we're fine. And which I think is a similar problem to what Arsenal have had. We won the Champions League, so we're fine. And like squad issues and in the case of United, squad depth hasn't been addressed properly. So you've got tired players going into this game, you know, obviously various substitutions throughout to try and inject some energy. But when you're playing against such a deadly City side, you're going to be punished. And I think to your point originally, Susie, the fact that Manchester City aren't in the Champions League is probably the reason why they absolutely should win the league this season as well.

7:26Because they've got all of the, you know, they've got all week to prepare and you could see it. So I think you're bang on there. Yeah, and this is where our predictions were correct at the start of the season, actually, because we thought this would be the case. And one of the things that we flagged was the fact Manchester United hadn't really bolstered their squad that much. And Mark Skinner pointed to the need for them to strengthen in January in his post-match interviews. He said, we deserved it. We gave City those goals. It wasn't like they dominated us. That's the scary thing. He still thinks that they can catch them.

7:59This is the Manchester United manager talking about a Manchester City side. I don't see anything exceptional with them. What we need to do is use the winter window to recruit the people we need to help support this team. Big message up to the boardroom there. Let's see whether or not he actually gets that. Because in terms of their title hopes, their third and seven points off the top, that's a lot to catch up with, particularly in this league, as we know. So quick thought on this, because he also said in his post-match that in-match interviews need to be scrapped. He was getting lined up to do one when Rebecca Canack scored.

8:37So he wasn't particularly happy that he was distracted. He said, there was a moment today when I'm on the headset and we're not using it. I'm listening to commentary and the goal goes in and I can't do anything. We have to refine the processes and the timings of it. This is in reference, by the way, to the new broadcast contract that came out at the beginning of the season where the broadcasters, namely Sky and BBC, can ask in-game interviews. Sky haven't done it yet this season, but BBC chose to do it in this game. What do we all think on this, Aisha? Yeah, I mean, the way he kind of said it was almost like, oh, it's because of the in-game interview.

9:18I don't know. Or at least that kind of became the headline. And I mean, that's just totally wrong, isn't it? United were totally outplayed, as we've already touched on. But the in-game interview thing is interesting because there's been mixed reviews about it's good to raise the profile of the game. People want to hear that insight. personally I don't feel like it's adding that much they're not saying anything particularly insightful like they're not exactly going to give us their tactics mid-game are they so post-match is just always going to be a bit more useful and if they're finding it that frustrating I don't think we should keep pushing for it on this occasion I think he just really wanted to he wanted to create something else other than the 3-0 defeat but yeah I'm not the biggest fan of it me either can't stand it think it's awful thought it was awful from the off I kind of like, I feel a bit mean because I think it's right to experiment and to try new things, right?

10:11Like, and I don't mind a bit of experimentation. I don't think this was the place to experiment. Like, halftime interviews, like, I don't like them at all. But, like, I don't mind them trying that. In-game interviews, like, I get that they work in, like, rugby and NFL and things like that. Stop-start games where there are these, like, pauses in play all the time and things like that. It doesn't work in football, which is a free-flowing game. You can't do it. I thought it was so odd at the start of the season when it was Arsenal-London City at the Emirates and I'm watching Jocelyn Pressure mid-match with headphones on, facing his back to the pitch because he's on camera, like facing up towards the crowd, doing an interview during play.

10:53like I think there was like you know slight pause for an injury or something but like a manager should be engaging with their team at that point right like that's when they come over to the sidelines and get a little bit of you know mini team talk or a bit of tactical advice or whatever so I just I don't agree with it but I also like don't mind people experimenting generally speaking as well so like I don't want to like be too mean on the idea of it but it's time to go because no one likes it and I've heard some clubs have said to me that if they were asked to do it they would refuse and they would take they would take the fine let me just interrupt you right there to ask how you rated your performance with that answer Susie it just destroys the flow I think I think our thoughts are replicated all around it is very tricky but as you say I like trying something a little bit different.

11:46A bit of bad news. Fallon Tullis-Joyce is out with a fractured eye socket. So we wish her the very best because that was not nice news to hear either. Manchester City got their job done then. So then the ball switched to Chelsea's court to try and keep that gap tight. But surprise, surprise. And none of us had this this weekend. Gareth Taylor's Liverpool put in a resilient performance and held them to a draw. It finished one all. Beata Olsen cancelling out Alyssa Thompson's opener. And they were just restricted to one shot on target Chelsea, which is just I can't remember ever seeing stats that low for a Chelsea side.

12:23Captain Millie Bright was pulled off at halftime. But what is going on behind the scenes at Chelsea? Anyone want to give me some some insight? It's strange. I mean, I guess no one's jumping in. We don't have the immediate answers of what is going wrong. I think it's always going to be hard when you're a team like Chelsea, you just have that target on your back. and they have this now 34 game unbeaten record in the WSL which is incredible on paper but they don't really want that when it's a draw against Liverpool they want to be getting those three points and it was a really interesting one at the weekend because I think it was even just in the sense of it it didn't feel like a really big game it was just kind of like oh they're just going to get the job done and when they didn't I think I was kind of watching it just ahead of that in North London Derby which I was at Brisbane Road for And I was kind of like, what's going on here?

13:14Are they really going to do it? Are Liverpool going to get their second point of the season against the champions? And I think we have to give a lot of credit to Liverpool because while no one else might have expected them to get anything, they clearly did. And you could see that in the way, like you say, they set up. They really closed Chelsea down, didn't allow them to have any more chances after they got that equaliser. That seemed to be part of the game plan. Olsen getting her third goal in three games. I think she's the first Liverpool player in five years to do that. So that's impressive in itself.

13:47But it's a team with Liverpool that, although they've only got two points, I think those two points don't necessarily reflect how they've been this season. So it's easy for us to say, oh, Chelsea should have come away with the win there. But Liverpool have been a bit unlucky earlier on in the season. so people aren't expecting much and good for them they've got that really important point and they've shut Chelsea down Yeah and Gareth Taylor will be delighted with that he was obviously proud of his team I think what we've done today is pretty remarkable of course on any given day you can also win that game and games can go your way but we've had to work tremendously hard today to get something from it it's nice the girls get a little bit of a reward for that it was an impressive performance actually 3-3 for the Sweden striker Olsen what a deadline day signing she's been and perhaps this is the turning point for them Chris I mean I completely agree with everything that Aisha said and what I thought was interesting was that as I was watching their goal I was like that's exactly what you need to do to Chelsea because that's the way to do it is to beat them for pace and she said it off post-match she said we know they're slow so that's exactly what they were looking for as soon as that ball came through you were just like there's no way anyone is going to catch her and actually it was exactly as they should be playing against that back line I think what's interesting is that if you've got Lauren James on the bench and you need something I was surprised not to see her come on I think Sam Kerr was rested so again there's something about resting on your laurels there a bit because actually you know you go to there thinking exactly Liverpool the bottom of the table Chelsea went there for a gimme and didn't get it but to Aisha's point thinking about what they've played like so far actually it doesn't necessarily reflect how they've played you know Spurs beat them recently and it was a bit of a get out of jail free actually that game you know we managed it was a bit of a smash and grab and if you've been paying attention to that you wouldn't just go there thinking oh we're going to win this so it was interesting for Chelsea and Aisha's points are bang on it's like 34 games unbeaten.

15:55You don't want that to become an albatross and it just to be draw after draw or just nicking, you know, nicking a game here and there. But it's exciting. It's like the things that you want to see is, you know, the bottom of the league team playing Chelsea and putting them to the sword nearly. It's taken a while because the table has been very, very top heavy and bottom heavy, hasn't it? All season. So I'm glad that that gap is starting to close a little bit. And, you know, really, Lauren James, came on, barely touched the ball. She hasn't really, it feels like, lit this season up just yet. Hannah Hampton's out until the end of the year.

16:33Olivia Peng was in goal. So, you know, it felt perhaps a little bit disjointed for Chelsea and a bit of a theme of their season at the moment, it feels, Susie, because they get a fast start and an early goal, but then they can't quite consolidate their lead. Is that complacency or just not putting their foot on the accelerator and being as kind of ruthless as we've seen them be in the past? What do you think it is? Oh, I agree with what's been said so far. Like loads of credit to Liverpool because I look at the table at the moment and I look at Liverpool and West Ham at the bottom there and I think neither of those team are going to be in that position at the end of the season.

17:11Like I'm not actually worried about either of them. I think they're both going to be all right. Liverpool are doing some good things and if they get a little bit of money in the summer to make some signings, then I think they'll do well. They've been really unlucky with some results in recent weeks. As Chris said, the Spurs game and their game since then against Brighton was, I think, unlucky with the draw too. So Chelsea haven't been great this season as a whole, right? Like that's the reality is they're not playing amazing football and they didn't last season either, right? They won a domestic treble despite not actually playing that great, lovely looking football.

17:46I'd argue that Arsenal were like played the more attractive football points last season but just lacked consistency and obviously had the really crap start. I did an interview with Millie Bright about her work with the Chelsea Foundation over loneliness over sort of the winter period. And I asked her about sort of like whether things felt like they were clicking more this season than last because, you know, those performances weren't that great last season. and she said like she thinks that people can really really underestimate how long it takes for a group of players to properly gel on the pitch and I don't think they've got there yet I just like don't think they've quite they've quite got there yet and then you know the injuries and the changes and stuff to the start in 11 aren't quite quite working and every other team has raised up a level so you're having to meet the expectations and level of last season and go higher without having necessarily kind of clicked in the way that you would like it.

18:41And we all know that they want the Champions League, don't we? So, you know, no surprise really that the focus goes a little bit more on that. We talked about fixture scheduling the other week and I know it was an international men's window. However, I'm not fully on board with two big derbies going on on the same weekend because it was also the North London derby and it finished at Tottenham 0, Arsenal 0. I'm going to default to the Spurs and Arsenal fans in a second, but I'm going to go to the neutral in Ayesha first because you were at Brisbane Road at the weekend. What did you make of the game overall?

19:20I think there's two elements to this game. Arsenal have just not been at their best, but equally Spurs just fought really hard, showed so much passion. And I think that word passion with Spurs was something that was lacking so much last season. And Martin Ho, whatever he has done with that team, he's injected passion. He even said in his post-match to us that he let Beth England do that post-match team talk just because there was so much passion from her and the team. And he felt like that was the right thing to do. And I think that is ultimately what gets you over the line in those games. It wasn't the best watch, I won't lie.

20:03But for Spurs, what a valuable point that is to draw against their North London rivals. Only the third time they've taken anything from that tie. It was really, really good to see that from Spurs. It seemed like a team totally transformed. But with Arsenal, there are problems we cannot ignore. There were no real clear-cut chances. you know, trying to write a sort of match report. You're going, what do you write about here? Olivia Smith came off the bench at halftime, really injected energy. But that's kind of all you can say about it. You know, she was putting some good crosses in, but nobody on the end of them.

20:42René Slegas has been experimenting with this Russo and Steiner up front. Not really sure how well that's working in the sense of not really, neither of them are really going for it. And there doesn't seem to be that out and out striker that they just seem to need to actually find the net. And yeah, the creativity is just really, really lacking actually at the moment. And yeah, it wasn't great from Arsenal. I'm going to let Susie formulate her rant while I go to a very proud looking Chris Pauros, who had a little bit of smug face sitting there listening to the praise being heaped on her side. And I think it is always important.

21:23We always tend to default to the bigger team and what it means for them in the context of the title race. But actually, you know, Spurs have been brilliant this season, Chris. We've piled a lot of love on your team. What is going on behind the scenes that is really, really making the difference, do you think? I think Aisha's touched on it there. There's definitely been a mindset shift and I don't think you can underestimate that. and the way I've been thinking about it is that there's much more of a Beth England mindset throughout the team. You know, she is a winner and you can see her absolute desire every time she's on that pitch but also how frustrated she is when it's not exactly as she wants it and previously there's been a little bit of we've been happy to sort of turn up and play some nice football but actually that mindset shift has come throughout the team now.

22:16You know, I heard Martin Ho after the match talk about energy, work rate, commitment and desire. And those things are really what this team is actually demonstrating on a weekly basis. You know, René Slager saying they've changed from last season. You're absolutely right, René, we absolutely have. And I think from a sort of a cultural angle in terms of the team psychology, this kind of performance really matters. you know it was a derby it's a tough opponent and walking away unbeaten not and not conceding builds belief but the one thing I really did want to you know and I was thinking about this before she got the player of the match by the way is like full-on Drew Spence appreciation you know she's technical she reads the game well she's a proper competitor she's really benefited from whatever the sort of training regimen is because her fitness is unbelievable she's so talented works hard and she's really critical for us for me she's the first name on the team sheet although I think Toko Koga's pretty um high up there as well and I think you know all of the discourse exactly as you've just said as well Faye was that Arsenal weren't great but I think there's something about that we that we actually had it was a proper contained performance you know the fact that Mariana Caldente didn't really do very much given what a kind of incredible creative player she is is unbelievable the one thing I will say is that we do need a bit more creativity and the forwards to be more brave and I think Martin Ho sort of alluded to that as well and as much as I love Leonard Gunning-Williams when you see Leonard Gunning-Williams coming on and Chloe Kelly at the same time you realize there's a bit of a gulf in terms of the squad depth as we were just saying but you know our new CEO who has come from Arsenal Vinay van Katersham He was very clear at the fan forum and he's been on record talking about it, that the January transfer window is going to be a big deal for us.

24:11So I think there's some real intent there as well. So, you know, I'm excited. I'm excited. And I think, you know, Martin Ho has really shifted that mindset and, you know, thinking about the way that we play. And I think that, you know, good things are for, you know, what Champions League, here we come. Why not? Yeah, without a doubt. Interesting, because already some questions in the January transfer window about who they might be going for. And producer Soph is telling me they're heavily linked with Norway's young star Signet Gaupset. I don't know whether I've pronounced that right. If I haven't, I apologise to all Norwegian fans out there.

24:48As you know, my pronunciations are utterly terrible. Susie, the platform is yours, but I want to lead into it by saying what Rennie Sleggers said post-match. A club like Arsenal wants and needs to win. So it's a frustrating period, but we still see enough to keep building on. How do you go positive with this? You go positive by praising Spurs. Because I completely agree with everything Aisha and Chris say. It was incredible, well-organised defensive performance. Not a huge amount of clear-cut chances for Tottenham either. but I don't mean that's a problem right like they've got this like really solid base to build upon like you now go out and add that creativity that is going to you know kind of find Beth England more and kind of get those opportunities further forwards but that base at the back I mean Togo Koga what an incredible signing I'd heard great things when they came in Martin Ho was like singing her praises in our sort of pre-season media day and I was really quite excited to see how she did and like the way she settled in is like stunning I've got a great song for her by the way so I can share it yes please we need the song um Arsenal's problems as I alluded to earlier when we were talking about Man United is I think a complacency in the summer in the you know I think there was a bit of a recognition that the squad last season needed a little bit of an overhaul and the Champions League win then sort of almost kind of whitewashes over that a little bit and paints a prettier picture than it is perhaps there on the state of the squad and sort of what needs to happen.

26:28And obviously you bring in Olivia Smith, which is a great signing, a big money and blah, blah, blah. But like they haven't replaced Leo Valti adequately, which is now why they've got this weird midfield sort of double pivot with Cooney Cross and Caldente this time, Pulova and Caldente previously. Obviously, you're playing Caldente too deep. You've got Russo in the number 10, which means Steiner is because you need some kind of like someone further forward as a part of that midfield free. Then you've got Blaxtinius in front of her. And in playing both Russo and Blaxtinius, I mean, they've tried a lot this season.

27:00It's not worked right. Like it worked against Leicester and most things should work against Leicester. No offence to Leicester. but one of the things you really lose with that which was a key part of their campaign last season was having Blackstinius come off the bench and impact a game and stretch a defence and they don't have that direct centre forward threat off the bench anymore which I think is a big big problem and then obviously you've got the lack of leadership in Kim Little and Leo Williamson but you should not be reliant on two players to bring the the heat to the side right like to bring that fight and battling spirit like it should be through all of these players like Renee Sleger's like yeah the heat is on a little bit but I also like I mean I would like she won us the Champions League like as a fan I'd let her relegate us and like I'd still build a statue you know like I love her so like I think she's bought herself a lot of time but also I think a lot of the blame has to lie with the lack of like lack of proper business in the summer and that has to fall with the higher ups it falls with her a little bit obviously she's got to really push for those changes.

28:01I don't know if that's happened or not. They really need to turn over that squad a little bit and start to build something that is a bit fresher and is going to challenge. And then we have to have better backup at centre half and we don't have our captain. We need, I would say, if we're going to play both Russo and Blackstain, we need another centre forward. I just think there's so many issues there. I think it's going to be a really fascinating transfer window in January because there are so many teams that really need to bolster their ranks. So there It could be a bit of a scrap on for players to come into the league.

28:34Right, that's it for part one of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. In part two, we're going to look at the other games from the weekend and talk England as well with a squad announcement on the horizon.

28:54Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Well, what a memorable afternoon in Dagenham, said no one ever. No, I'm joking. West Ham finally securing their first win of the season to lift them off the bottom of the table. It finished West Ham three, Everton one. Anouk Denton, Amber Tisiak and Shakira Martinez opening up a comfortable lead for the hosts. Katja Snoyes scored the consolation for the visitors in the end. You've got to go back to the 27th of April for West Ham's last win in the league. Chris it's felt like it's been coming in recent weeks but how exactly did they pull Everton apart and we could have got Marva on this week that would have been even worse than getting her on last week they look really well drilled and that's what Rhianne Skinner was talking about post-match and I also think they used those wide areas to really stretch the Everton back line and you know giving Shakira Martinez space is exactly what you want to be doing so I think the first goal was kind of fell quite nicely for Anouk Denton.

30:01But I think that's what you've got to do is kind of take those chances, particularly when, as you said, you know, it's been building and they haven't quite managed it. And then you've just got to put someone to the sword. And I think they managed to do that against Everton. And I was surprised that Everton, actually, they just didn't have much in response. And usually they've got a bit more of something about them, but I guess it just wasn't their day. I tell you what, West Ham are properly in the mood. That's why it wasn't their day, Ayesha. 19 chances created, six shots on target, three different goal scorers.

30:31Is this what's going to kickstart their season? Yeah, I think so. I mentioned it about Liverpool earlier as well, that they kind of are a team not reflecting their points. I think West Ham have been unlucky at times as well this season. And yeah, I think it's really important for them to have shown the fact that they can score goals. It wasn't just a close win. and if you want to be not getting in that bottom spot this season, you've got to be beating those teams like Everton, the ones who might also be in trouble this season. So yeah, beating them so convincingly was really impressive and it's really good to see Shakira Martinez scoring again because I was singing her praises, I'm sure everyone was, from January when she signed at West Ham.